Statistics...what are the deeper issues?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

If I hold a gun to your head and take your wallet, it doesn't make it ok as long as I give you something you don't want in return. It's the coercive nature of the act that makes it wrong -- it's the subjugation of your inalienable right to decide for yourself what to do with the product of your own labor that makes it wrong.

Two things. One, I don't think we are talking, on the whole, about things taxpayers don't want. Of course there are some items the taxpayers don't want, and if you want to restrict the discussion to those items, then that's another story. But then, how do we figure out what those are? One person might think another library or another fire station is something undesirable, while his neighbor may be all for it. But again, I think we are primarily talking about things that we DO want as a society. You know, the things we have that third world countries don't.

Two, I think your viewpoint is too narrow when you talk about "the product of your own labor." For a handful of people, maybe. If you live on a farm and sustain yourself with your own land, maybe. But the great majority of us make a living that is supported by far, far more than the product of our own labor. Rather, it's a product of our own labor and the infrastructure that gives rise to the very opportunity for that labor to occur. The guy who works at the auto factory is going to have a hard time figuring out what to do with the product of his own labor once the factory closes and the job vanishes.

I just feel that it's unrealistic to think that we would, or even could, enjoy the same quality of life we do now if everyone kept all their own income and we abolished government altogether.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Of course there are some items the taxpayers don't want, and if you want to restrict the discussion to those items, then that's another story. But then, how do we figure out what those are?

It's actually very, very easy to figure out what these things are.

I just feel that it's unrealistic to think that we would, or even could, enjoy the same quality of life we do now if everyone kept all their own income and we abolished government altogether.

I've never advocated either of these things.