If the season had ended after last game... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 04-22-2004, 10:47 PM

would you want nellie back next year?

grndmstr_c · 04-22-2004, 10:59 PM

I voted no. He's just screwed up in so many respects this year. I was really holding out hope that once the team got to the playoffs he'd quit f'ing around, but he's coached every bit as badly as most of the team has played.

Murphy3 · 04-22-2004, 11:21 PM

The worst decision of the year? That has to be when he decided to make Walker the #1 option ahead of Fin, Nash, and Dirk.

Drbio · 04-22-2004, 11:58 PM

Hell no. Fire his butt yesterday. He seems liquored up most of the time and appears to be coaching to be fired.

bernardos70 · 04-23-2004, 02:02 AM

I'd fire his butt after we lost to ATL at home. I just can't put up with experiments anymore. We just need to play more conventional basketball, he tinkered and tinkered and nothing. I don't think he's a bad coach, but he reached his limits as a coach IMO. Try to explain why the man won't play a center when he has a 7 foot 6 inch shot blocking machine out there. It makes no sense. Do you know how many fastbreak opportunities come from blocked shots? Doesn't he want us to play up-and-down the court baskeball? Then why doesn't he use someone who can get stops so we have those opportunities? That's correct, there's no reason for it.

shaw-xx · 04-23-2004, 04:52 AM

Not sure, still no idea. I love Mavs for their style of play. They need defense, but I love offense and high score very much. I'm glad that they outscored Kings as #1 at the team score standing this regular season. I just don't know if Nellie is fired, will they keep on their style or become a Spurs/Rockets-esque team? Worried...

mavsman55 · 04-23-2004, 05:29 AM

Shaw, defense wins. period. If I had to choose between an all-defense no-offense team like houston and high-scoring no-defense team like Dallas, I'd take Houston without thinking twice. Just imagine how good this team would be with a strong defense..

And I don't think the high scoring will stop if Nelson is fired.. the players are here, and they have the skill, and as long as Nash and Nowitzki stay put, I think we won't have any problems with offense next year. Hopefully, Jamison will pick himself up a starting spot too.

PubaNWO · 04-23-2004, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
The worst decision of the year? That has to be when he decided to make Walker the #1 option ahead of Fin, Nash, and Dirk.

When was this?

Murphy3 · 04-23-2004, 06:46 AM

It's a decision that Nellie made before the season started. Walker led the team in field goal attempts for basically the entire first half as Nellie tried his beloved point-forward system. He completely undermined what the big 3 had accomplished the previous year and in years past. He completely undermined Dirk as the best player by making him take a back seat to a very inefficient shooter. Dirk had averaged around 28 points and 11 boards. Obviously, when the playoffs rolled around, Dirk continued to play at the same level.

How was he rewarded? He was rewarded by Nellie telling him to bend over and grab his ankles.

PubaNWO · 04-23-2004, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
It's a decision that Nellie made before the season started. Walker led the team in field goal attempts for basically the entire first half as Nellie tried his beloved point-forward system. He completely undermined what the big 3 had accomplished the previous year and in years past. He completely undermined Dirk as the best player by making him take a back seat to a very inefficient shooter. Dirk had averaged around 28 points and 11 boards. Obviously, when the playoffs rolled around, Dirk continued to play at the same level.

How was he rewarded? He was rewarded by Nellie telling him to bend over and grab his ankles.

AW played more like an all-star for the first two months than any other Mav....he deserved the shots he got and it was very much needed as Dirk was hurt and out 5 games.

AW only led this team in FGA per game for a short time there's no way it was for the first half of the season because AW drastically reduced his shots and 3 point attempts and became more of a playmaker during the 9 game win streak. Yes his numbers were down and they should be down because Dirk and the Big 3 came back healthy and played like they should have played all year.

It is very obvious now that Nellie has no idea what to do with Walker because he will either get flamed for playing him too much or not playing him at all and all the while the Big 3 aren't enough to get the job done. With Jamison hurt as well this really makes it all the more worse....

what to do what to do.....

unleesh the Walker!!!

ddh33 · 04-23-2004, 12:18 PM

The good news is that the season didn't end after this most recent game.

These things usually end of sorting themselves out.

sike · 04-23-2004, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ddh33
The good news is that the season didn't end after this most recent game.
These things usually end of sorting themselves out.

and so far they are 0-2

Murphy3 · 04-23-2004, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ddh33
The good news is that the season didn't end after this most recent game.

These things usually end of sorting themselves out.

Sure, this is just for your current feeling and nothing else.

I believe that Nellie should have been replaced 2-3 years ago. Nothing that occurs between now and the end of the season will change my opinion.

Dooby · 04-23-2004, 01:33 PM

Nellie doesn't deserve to fired because of 1 game. If you wanted him fired before. Fine. If you wanted to keep him, then fine. This one game, while it does a pretty good job of showing off many of his shortcomings, should not change things.

Usually Lurkin · 04-23-2004, 01:44 PM

Kind of unfair to ask "if the season ended . .. ." after two road games against a good home team, when most of our players weren't performing as they should (even without Nellie's help)

if we win the next two (not inconcievable), and everyone contributes to the wins, and then the season ends. Do you still say Nellie should be fired?

If you answer "no" after the losses, and "yes" after wins, then what good are you?
If you answer consistently, then great, why?

admittedly, if they win the next two, my answers would then be "no", and "yes".

But really, the question shouldn't be asked till after the season.

Edit: the "you"s in my post are general "you"s. - not directed at anyone but whoever might be reading.

grndmstr_c · 04-23-2004, 02:05 PM

If the players start playing well and make a series of this without Nellie changing, I will be happy with the players, but I will still be unhappy with Nellie. I've been a supporter of his in previous years, but I've become increasingly frustrated with his decision making this season, and these two playoff games have done nothing to turn that around. I'm usually an optimistic and loyal fan, so I'm fairly likely to come back around to supporting Nellie on the basis of a few games worth of Shawn Bradley and a disproportionatly large number of touches for Dirk, but my current dissatisfaction stems from an evaluation of a considerably larger sample size than merely the last couple games.

Murphy3 · 04-23-2004, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Usually Lurkin
Kind of unfair to ask "if the season ended . .. ." after two road games against a good home team, when most of our players weren't performing as they should (even without Nellie's help)

if we win the next two (not inconcievable), and everyone contributes to the wins, and then the season ends. Do you still say Nellie should be fired?

If you answer "no" after the losses, and "yes" after wins, then what good are you?
If you answer consistently, then great, why?

admittedly, if they win the next two, my answers would then be "no", and "yes".

But really, the question shouldn't be asked till after the season.

Edit: the "you"s in my post are general "you"s. - not directed at anyone but whoever might be reading.

One of the reasons this poll was started was just to get a general feel for what's going on in the mind of the average Mavs fan. Another reason why it was started is because it's amusing to see how some people go back and forth constantly concerning the issue.

I believe that there's alot of people that don't want Nellie here next year regardless of the outcome. Sure, he'd be given a free pass if the players overcame the obstacle of having Nellie as the coach and advanced deep into the playoffs. But, I'd still want him gone.

Fidel · 04-23-2004, 04:33 PM

See Chiwas? It´s a poll too. And yes you can vote. Fell free to do so...

Usually Lurkin · 04-23-2004, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3 Sure, he'd be given a free pass if the players overcame the obstacle of having Nellie as the coach and advanced deep into the playoffs.

heh, heh. I like the way you put that.
I'm a flip-flopper, though. I go back and forth with Nellie, hating him and his "genius", then remembering that Bradley played a lot against Portland last year - right when he was needed. I'm yelling for Bradley now, but then I remember how embarrassed he and Raef were by the old man Divac previously against the Kings. So maybe Nellie does know something. Everything looks like crap this year (you can read that: "Why do we have Walker???" or "Damn those early injuries!!"). But Nellie wasn't the only one that thought LaFrentz for Walker was good. It just hasn't worked out. Or maybe it will. Maybe they'll figure it out after being down 0-2 and heading back home like they did a couple years ago against Utah. Because of stuff like that - because Nellie is doing a bunch of stuff that I don't understand (you can read that: "crap I don't agree with"), I'll give him the same constraints I give just about anyone else - you're only as good as your last game (or series).

So if the season ended today, Nelson should be gone, cause his team ended crappily.
But if Fin and Nash step up,
or if Walker hits his shots
or if Bradley takes the court as the next coming of mutombo, Nelson should stay, cause his team stepped up.

As of right now, all those ifs are imaginary, and only one of them has a zero chance of happening - so it seems silly to choose only one as a context for "Should Nellie be gone?"

Chiwas · 04-23-2004, 05:00 PM

Quote:

See Chiwas? It´s a poll too. And yes you can vote. Fell free to do so...

I'm seeing a poll already.

The fact is, when I started the thread before and read the notificacion about this thread, I couldn't see the the poll. I rechecked and there wasn't any poll here.

I'm not a rookie here and know the rules. I wouldn't start a duplicated thread.

I don't know if it's a D-M software problem or if somebody can ban (and banned) my access to a poll or to other features.

Edit: Sorry, UL, hadn't seen your post.

Chiwas · 04-23-2004, 05:06 PM

I just know what happened.

I wasn't interested in this thread (I won't tell you why but you can guess it).

When I accessed it after the notificacion, I opened the second page; you can't know in a second page if the thread has a poll if the title doesn't mention it.

That's all.

I don't know if we should write it in the title.

Bayliss · 04-23-2004, 05:36 PM

Doesn't matter what he does. He should be fired. And the "someone better in his place" line is a little nonsensical. The reason is because unless you do fire him then you will never know if the coach you hire next will be better.

In other words, the only way to find out if a coach is better than Nellie is to fire Nellie and replace him with that said coach. And I'm willing to find out. Because I've already seen the best of Nellie. And the best of Nellie got us to the WCFs beating up a gimp team. And I've already seen the worst of Nelson. (Ahem this year.) But have I seen the best of ___(inser coach here)__________? Nope. And I want to go with somebody that might bring us a championship. That will establish defense. That will establish a number 1 option.

Had Hill never been fired from SA, the Spurs would not have won the championships in 99 or 03. Poopovich was essentially "unknown" quantity at the time of his takeover. And at that time SA was considered a good quality team that seemed to make the playoffs regularly.

Can the Mavs have that kind of change? I hope so. But it start up top.

dude1394 · 04-23-2004, 06:47 PM

I voted that I'm not sure..because I'm not. As irate as nellie has made me this year, I still think (we will find out for sure if still true) that the mavs play hard for him.. I don't know if he can learn anything or not but the mavs will have another banner on the wall about 115 layups or something.

Chiwas · 04-23-2004, 07:37 PM

Daniels' and Howard's play have made me hesitate about changing Nelson.

But maybe Cuban and Dallas are losing a chance to prove the getting of higher achievements with a new coach, and I agree, if other coach is not tried, we'll never know.

I trust in the Big Three and in the philosophy of Cuban to at least not let the team fall to lower than a 5th place in the West with a new coach, supposing that that coach will be a talented one but needing to build a new system and make adjustments. This, a good coach, has to be taken for granted, since Nelson is not precisely a bad coach.

Fidel · 04-24-2004, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Chiwas
I just know what happened.

I wasn't interested in this thread (I won't tell you why but you can guess it).

When I accessed it after the notificacion, I opened the second page; you can't know in a second page if the thread has a poll if the title doesn't mention it.

That's all.

I don't know if we should write it in the title.

Hmmm that´s strange Chiwas.

Cause at the time I locked your first "Nellie poll" and gave you the link to this thread here, this thread here only had 11 replys, same when you opened your second thread. Usually a second page is started after 40 replys. Maybe that´s different for you I don´t know, but...

...whatever you did, or saw, next time check your facts before you accuse me of abusing my mod status.

BTW, if you were cool you would have apologized...

Chiwas · 04-24-2004, 12:57 AM

1.- I read all the titles as usual before to read or to post something.
2.- I didn't see anything saying "Nelson" or "Poll".
3.- I can't open all the threads to see what is inside. I think nobody can; at least I don't have the time. I use the titles to know if I want to read them, to post something or start a thread.
4.- You, Fidel, posted a link; I used to confirm if I was actually wrong using a same poll and I saw a page, the second of that thread, that didn't show a poll, neither the title. I used your link. My configuration is set to see 10 posts per page. Your link didn't show me that there was a poll already started there. I repeat, I don't have that much time to check everything, and I repeat, I used your link.
5.- And yes, you abused your mod status. it's not the first time. Other mods just PM me when I need to know something and WE fix it and the board doesn't need to be bothered with these posts.
6.- For the reasons written, I don't need to apologize to a mod that does not deserve it and that always is trying to hunt me.
7.- I apologize to my fellow members for my unintended thread and for being obligated to respond to a mod openly in the same way he did, through posts instead of PM's.

Edit: Unintended duplicated poll [unintended thread].

shaw-xx · 04-24-2004, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mavsman55
Shaw, defense wins. period. If I had to choose between an all-defense no-offense team like houston and high-scoring no-defense team like Dallas, I'd take Houston without thinking twice. Just imagine how good this team would be with a strong defense..

And I don't think the high scoring will stop if Nelson is fired.. the players are here, and they have the skill, and as long as Nash and Nowitzki stay put, I think we won't have any problems with offense next year. Hopefully, Jamison will pick himself up a starting spot too.

Thanks mavsman55. I feel a little better of the possible coming change on the team after reading your post. Yeah as long as the offensive players are here, they can run and score. But if a defensive JVG-esque coach comes, our players have to pay much more attention on defense and it'll affect the offense more or less.

Fidel · 04-24-2004, 05:39 PM

Quote:

1.- I read all the titles as usual before to read or to post something.
2.- I didn't see anything saying "Nelson" or "Poll".
3.- I can't open all the threads to see what is inside. I think nobody can; at least I don't have the time. I use the titles to know if I want to read them, to post something or start a thread.
4.- You, Fidel, posted a link; I used to confirm if I was actually wrong using a same poll and I saw a page, the second of that thread, that didn't show a poll, neither the title. I used your link. My configuration is set to see 10 posts per page. Your link didn't show me that there was a poll already started there. I repeat, I don't have that much time to check everything, and I repeat, I used your link.

No one asked you to read every thread and post before opnening a new thread. But you should have checked the link I provided a little bit better before you opened your second thread and accused me of abusing my status of a mod.

Quote:

5.- And yes, you abused your mod status. it's not the first time. Other mods just PM me when I need to know something and WE fix it and the board doesn't need to be bothered with these posts.

I simply locked your thread and told you why. This is quite normal. You can´t lock a thread via PM, obviously you have to do it openly. And Chiwas please show me those other examples where I abused my mod status in your opinion.

Quote:

6.- For the reasons written, I don't need to apologize to a mod that does not deserve it and that always is trying to hunt me.

Like I thought, no class...

Quote:

7.- I apologize to my fellow members for my unintended thread and for being obligated to respond to a mod openly in the same way he did, through posts instead of PM's.

You were the one to make it public, you were the one who made a big deal out of it, who accused and even threatened me. Like I said above a thread can obviously only be locked in public, and I did it politely. I explained you why I locked it and even provided a link to the other thread. Then you opened up another thread where you made your wrong accusation. Why didn´t you PM me so we could have dealt with the matter privately. You were the one to take it public, so stay with the facts (but wait that´s never been a strong point of yours)...

Sorry to anyone else for going offtopic here, but obviously he challanged me.

Chiwas · 04-24-2004, 07:17 PM

You need a rest, Fidel.

Murphy3 · 04-27-2004, 08:22 PM

bump...it's getting closer

PubaNWO · 04-27-2004, 09:52 PM

Well Nellie has some legit. excuses.....as do all the players.

They all had to adjust and just didn't play Mavs basketball most of the year. Nellie didn't help by going away from it and then trying new stuff and coming back to the Big 3....players didn't play as well as they can or should have either.

I can see Nellie coming back for another year though.....