Jason Terry for Backup Point Guard

[G-Man]

Sure he puts up a lot of points as an undersized 2 and 6th man. But now the Mavs have Roddy, Butler and DoJo who can all play that role.

On the other hand, Jet was a good enough starting PG to get this team to within a game and a half of a championship. I think I'd much rather see him get those minutes than JJB. He may not be the best distributor, but he gets much more respect from defenses, because, unlike JJB, they have to defend him. And we're only talking about 15 minutes a night. With Terry at the 1, teams won't be playing 4 on 5. And if they leave him open like they do Barea, Jet will kill them.

His defense is no worse than Barea. Against other team's backup PG's he may be ok. In the playoffs, he appears to have lost his end of game effectiveness, so maybe its time to relieve him of that role. Roddy is ready to take over that spot in the closing 5 anyway. End of games now should be Chandler (or Haywood) Dirk, Butler (or Marion if we need his defense), Roddy and Kidd. Let Jet be a shoot first PG Like he was when he 1st got here. I'll bet it works, and we'll wonder why we didn't do it sooner.

[Zki41]

I more or less agree, but Barea's speed off the bench can change the pace of a game.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by Zki41

I more or less agree, but Barea's speed off the bench can change the pace of a game.

For which team?

[toutlemonde]

Originally Posted by Zki41

I more or less agree, but Barea's speed off the bench can change the pace of a game.

Why not give Dee Brown a look while he is on the roster if you want speed ?

What do you guys think the mavs are looking for with their last roster spot ?

Brown, Cardinal, Haluska and Novak are all mentioned as candiates for a roster spot but only Dee Brown is a point.

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by G-Man

Sure he puts up a lot of points as an undersized 2 and 6th man. But now the Mavs have Roddy, Butler and DoJo who can all play that role.

On the other hand, Jet was a good enough starting PG to get this team to within a game and a half of a championship. I think I'd much rather see him get those minutes than JJB. He may not be the best distributor, but he gets much more respect from defenses, because, unlike JJB, they have to defend him. And we're only talking about 15 minutes a night. With Terry at the 1, teams won't be playing 4 on 5. And if they leave him open like they do Barea, Jet will kill them.

His defense is no worse than Barea. Against other team's backup PG's he may be ok. In the playoffs, he appears to have lost his end of game effectiveness, so maybe its time to relieve him of that role. Roddy is ready to take over that spot in the closing 5 anyway. End of games now should be Chandler (or Haywood) Dirk, Butler (or Marion if we need his defense), Roddy and Kidd. Let Jet be a shoot first PG Like he was when he 1st got here. I'll bet it works, and we'll wonder why we didn't do it sooner.

I would listen to offers for sure, especially since he's 33...how much longer is he going to be able to play at the level he has been? As you said his effectiveness late in playoff games has already fallen off. He isn't going to get any better.

[dude1394]

Caron, dojo, roddy haven't proven in any shape, form or fashion that they can be anywhere near as effective as jet offensively.

[SMC0007]

Seems pretty obvious that this setup flowed a bit more than the others. Jet played well and it looked like a good mix just about every time RC made a move.

[dude1394]

Jet has been stellar this pre-season that's for sure. But I think Carlisle is correct about having another playmaker in the starting lineup from last year. We have way,way too much isolation going on.

I'm not sure if it needs to be caron or shawn on the bench. With another playmaker shawn becomes more effective than caron, he and dirk are sort of ball-stoppers..

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Caron, dojo, roddy haven't proven in any shape, form or fashion that they can be anywhere near as effective as jet offensively.

Yes and no. Butler proved he could be effective in Washington, Dojo proved it in college, and Roddy has proven it in spurts. But you are correct... none have proved it consistently in a Mavs uniform. I have high hopes for all three, and hopes that RC will throw them into the fire and give the young guys a chance to grow into the role.

[G-Man]

I had to work and failed to tape the Chicago game. I read that Jet played some point...how did he do?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by G-Man

I had to work and failed to tape the Chicago game. I read that Jet played some point...how did he do?

He did really well running with that second unit. Posterized Keith Bogans after a peel back steal

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

For which team?

Zing.

I'm all for JET getting time at the point if that means a little less Barea and more Roddy eventually. JET/Roddy can't be worse defensively than the Kidd/Barea/Terry combo.

[Kidd Karma]

I think Jet's a natural born leader and having him parking on an island on the edges, is really stapling his talents down. It's a great move, to have him work along side some of the younger players, direct traffic and make decisions.

[41mvp]

I don't like Jason Terry,but now he plays very well.He plays good in defence and offensive.I am very happy.And his dunk on Bogans this was amazing.Big dunk big match for Jason Terry.I think this will be big season for him.He is ready to roll!!!

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Zing.

I'm all for JET getting time at the point if that means a little less Barea and more Roddy eventually. JET/Roddy can't be worse defensively than the Kidd/Barea/Terry combo.

this.

Less Barea and more free SG minutes for Roddy (or DoJo). But ok, you never know if RC has the stupid idea to play then a Jet/Barea with reverse roles...

[wilmtalk]

Over the years I noticed an interesting dynamic about Terry. He actually plays better at the point than at the two because he is not focused on scoring. As the two he tends to only shoot jumpers. When he played point his all around game improves. I think when he see's himself as a scorer he reverts back to his gunner mentality that he had before he came to the mavs. His two man game with Dirk was at it's best before Kidd got here. I think they developed it when Terry was playing the point. With Kidd on the floor he never did the two man thing with Dirk. I would hate to see RC begin to play him at the point now because he is too old and slow now to keep up with the new speedsters who play the point now. RC would play him more than he should because he is a veteran and young players like Roddy would never get the opportunity to develop on this team.

[sefant77]

Actually moving Terry some minutes to PG would give Roddy the opportunity for more minutes...

[kg_veteran]

To answer the title of the thread:

I agree.

[EricaLubarsky]

Terry is not a terrible PG option when he's aggressive. He plays well off the ball a la Rip Hamilton but if he gets hot, teams fall back on their heels and he can be an effective distributor. He's not perfect by far but he needs to be confident out there to have any effect on a game and if he's hitting his shots he's dangerous passing and even more dangerous getting the ball back on the pop.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Terry is not a terrible PG option when he's aggressive. He plays well off the ball a la Rip Hamilton but if he gets hot, teams fall back on their heels and he can be an effective distributor. He's not perfect by far but he needs to be confident out there to have any effect on a game and if he's hitting his shots he's dangerous passing and even more dangerous getting the ball back on the pop.

So I take it you like to see him at the point in JJB's role...given the talent mix on the roster now?

[mac222b]

im not a big fan of Barea by any means. he overdribbles, holds the ball at ends of quarters so he can throw up bad shots, doesnt look for Dirk enough(and frequently misses him when he's open)and then there's his defense. but he can break down defenders and get to the rim, perhaps this team's biggest weakness.

if Roddy can provide that consistently then JJB becomes redundant except as a change-up/spot duty guy. the nice thing about Jet at point is it means more minutes for our best players. more time for Roddy.

it's a shame TT couldnt come back or that we couldnt sign Haslem or Harrington. we could really use someone behind Dirk for 10-15 a game. Mahinmi looks decent but it'd be nice to have someone that can mix it up AND stroke an occasional J.
Haslem wouldve been it. oh well. maybe sometime between now and the deadline things will get sorted and the roster will start to take shape. right now it still looks like an awkward fit.

[mac222b]

props to whoever said Jet looks more invested in other aspects of the game when manning the point. possible upside there. if he feels less like a DH maybe he'll become more focused on playing an all-around game.

[BGMaverick9]

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2010/10...ricks-rotation

As we discussed earlier, Dominique Jones is impressing the coaching staff with his tenacity on the defensive end of the court. His impression is strong enough to potentially earn some minutes off the bench. Carlisle could facilitate minutes for Jones and Terry by having Terry hit the rewind button back to 2005 and handle some point guard responsibilities. Jones' defensive prowess could help Terry out who isn't know as a defensive stopper but has worked over the off-season to improve that facet of his game. This experiment actually played out in the second half of the game against the Bulls and it led to mostly positive results. This kind of move would help out those two guards but it would be at the expense of J.J. Barea. Terry and Barea are in the same mold: undersized shooting guards with defensive limitations, the thing that sets them apart is experience - Terry has more than Barea.

[Kidd Karma]

That's music to my ears, no more Jet-JJ backcourt.

[Popeye]

Hopefully in RC's 3rd year he'll realize what every member of this forum has known since 2005 -- JET can be an effective PG in a limited role.

I agree it has the side benefit of more minutes for Roddy at SG and less need for Barea. Seems like a no-brainer, which means there's a very small chance it will happen.

[AO41]

I just want to point our AGIAN that we really should appreciate what Jet has done for this team. What is this like his 5th years with the team?? And every year they have asked him to change his role or fill a different role. And he has done wit without complaint. Yes he is older now and lost some game...but hes still a great guy to have on the team and I think we have the rite mix of guys we just have to figure out who goes where and I think Jet playing back up point guard would be a good idea...because I think a lot of people jumped the gun on Roddy being our pg.

[Popeye]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

To answer the title of the thread:

I agree.

The real question should be, is the backup PG that JET would yield in a trade a better backup PG than JET, if Carlisle would play him there. I personally don't think so.

Of course there's so many variables that I'm not even sure of my answer. Will Carlisle use him correctly? Who could we get for Terry and his expiring contract? And the ultimate variable is how Terry will play, which varies from game to game.

[Popeye]

n/m

[KINGBEEF]

well... if the Jet got some time at the point, that could only mean one thing for JJ...

EXIT DOOR IS TO YOUR RIGHT!!!

[mavsfan1000]

Barea is terrible. Get him off the team.

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Barea is terrible. Get him off the team.

Why tell me???What you want for him.When he played terrible?

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by AO41

I just want to point our AGIAN that we really should appreciate what Jet has done for this team. What is this like his 5th years with the team?? And every year they have asked him to change his role or fill a different role. And he has done wit without complaint.

I absolutely agree. Jet has been a huge asset. He came in when Nash left, with fans out for blood. Yet he made himself a fan favorite and made the Jet-Dirk 2 man game a deadly weapon. Then he remade himself into 6th man of the year material.

But his skill set is changing with age, and the teams needs have changed as the personell has. The need now is a backup PG without JJB's liabilities. Barea can only take over games for a few minutes when teams have forgotten to defend him. When he goes into that mode, he becomes a ball hog who wastes clock time dribbling and who is easily blocked.

There is nothing JJB can do that Terry doesn't do better except dribble. Jet gets more respect from defenses, which would open things up for the rest if the 2nd unit. He would gladly play that role if asked, and he would then remain the captain of the 2nd unit. RC would trust him, so Kidd would get more rest.

Watching Barea run the offense during the PHX Outdoor exhibition with Terry on the bench only reinforces my desire to see more Jet ant less JJb.

I think this is the ultimate no brainer. So how do we make it happen? Is anybody in the MBT listening?

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by G-Man

I absolutely agree. Jet has been a huge asset. He came in when Nash left, with fans out for blood. Yet he made himself a fan favorite and made the Jet-Dirk 2 man game a deadly weapon. Then he remade himself into 6th man of the year material.

But his skill set is changing with age, and the teams needs have changed as the personell has. The need now is a backup PG without JJB's liabilities. Barea can only take over games for a few minutes when teams have forgotten to defend him. When he goes into that mode, he becomes a ball hog who wastes clock time dribbling and who is easily blocked.

There is nothing JJB can do that Terry doesn't do better except dribble. Jet gets more respect from defenses, which would open things up for the rest if the 2nd unit. He would gladly play that role if asked, and he would then remain the captain of the 2nd unit. RC would trust him, so Kidd would get more rest.

Watching Barea run the offense during the PHX Outdoor exhibition with Terry on the bench only reinforces my desire to see more Jet ant less JJb.

I think this is the ultimate no brainer. So how do we make it happen? Is anybody in the MBT listening?

yeah you have absolutly right.Jet is great player.But his skill set is changing with age.He played well two years ago he won 6 man of the year.In 2006 playoffs he was amazing.He won for Dallas first match in 2006 finals.I very like him, I have for him huge respect.But I think next or this season Dallas must make change.Terry has 33 years in next year he will be 34 years man.If we doesn't win championship in this year.Terry,Marion and Kidd they must leave this team.I very like this guys, but theirs skills are changing with age.

[G-Man]

Uh oh. RC is still full of JJB Love. Fisher wrote this on 10-10-2010

in the opinion of Mavs coach Rick Carlisle (who’s fainting spell on Friday kept him home), Barea is a “difference-maker.’’
“He has established consistency," Carlisle said last week. "He's been a difference-maker for us, as a bench player and as a starter. He's not a guy that people should write off by any stretch. He's proven who he is and what he can do. We need him."
Carlisle says the record shows that when JJB starts for the Mavs, Dallas “wins two-thirds of those games, at least.’’
Hmmm. Really?
Yup. Really.
We looked it up. We should’ve known; when Carlisle starts riffing on statistical trends, we always end up discovering that the facts back him up. So it is again:
Last year, when Barea started at the 2-guard, the Mavs were 11-5.
The previous season, when Barea started at the 2-guard, they were 10-5.
That’s 21-10. That’s “two-thirds … at least.’’
Want more?
Basketball-reference.com has a player finder that can give you all the games Barea has started. We did some digging into the boxscores, which revealed that the only times JJB started as a point guard was March 3, 2010, against the T'Wolves, with Butler and Marion starting at the wings (meaning Jason Kidd sat out), and January 24, 2010, against the Knicks, alongside Terry, Marion, Dirk and Gooden. (Again, obviously, no Kidd.)
And son-of-a-gun, Dallas won both those games, too.
So again, Carlisle knows his numbers – and uses those numbers to back (and even make) his decisions. Certainly, it helps JJB’s record that when he starts in the backcourt, it’s usually at the 2-guard alongside one of the greatest point guards of all time, as was the case here.
But as we keep digging, we see proof that Dallas values Barea as a point guard more than it values, say, Jason Terry there. We have to go back to March 27, 2009, a game against the Nuggets, to find an outing in which Terry played minutes at the point. The boxscore shows that Kidd sat out, Barea played 30 minutes, and Jet – a point guard on Dallas’ 2006 NBA Finals team just three years earlier -- played almost his entire season’s minutes as a 1. … largely because Carlisle preferred to go with JJB as the backup there.
So we can argue that JJB isn’t exactly a point guard.
And we can argue that he’s flawed as a 2-guard.
But when Rick Carlisle says he’s a “difference-maker,’’ the numbers make it difficult to argue.

[Popeye]

Talk about reaching to find "statistical evidence" that JJB is a difference maker. The mavs have been winning around two-thirds of their games for 10 years now, but JJB gets credit for winning two-thirds of games when he's a starter. That makes him a difference-maker? Wow.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by G-Man

“He has established consistency," Carlisle said last week. "He's been a difference-maker for us, as a bench player and as a starter. He's not a guy that people should write off by any stretch. He's proven who he is and what he can do. We need him."

This is really confusing to me. When was the last time JJB was a difference maker? What is Carlisle watching? For anyone who's been watching all the games, fill in the blank: "For the past season's worth of games, JJB has been consistently _______________."

[BGMaverick9]

inconsistent.

[mavsfan1000]

Yes Barea has been a difference maker. He definitely changed the momentum by allowing Parker to go in the lane at will against us. Thus forcing Kidd back in too early.

[kg_veteran]

I hate that Barea has become such a whipping boy, but it's primarily because he's a symbol of Carlisle's myopia.

No team that is serious about trying to win a title would have Barea in its rotation.

Haywood/Chandler - 48
Nowitzki 36 - Marion 12
Butler 35 - Marion 13
Beaubois 35 - Jones 13
Kidd 30 - Terry 18

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Beaubois 35 - Jones 13

That's a whole lotta hope right there.