Offseason 2010 Thread

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

A bit overkill, no? I'm pretty sure Caron is happy to be with the Mavs.

How could he not be happy? He's getting paid an ass-load of money, the least he can do is PRETEND like his team has a shot at winning it all...

This is a guy whose production can make or break the Mavs this season, and he's already crowning the Heat before the first game of the season is even played? If he doesn't believe the Mavs have a chance, then why should anyone else?

Might as well just kick Dirk in the nuts, take his money and leave...



EDIT: then there's this:

"It was fun, it was real fun," Butler said of those days. "I obviously really miss Miami, but I have great guys there, I have friendships with Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, my big brother Eddie Jones and obviously our man Dwyane Wade."

But Butler went to Los Angeles (along with Odom) as part of the Shaquille O'Neal trade. A trade that brought a ring to Miami. But does Butler ever think about what might have been if the Heat had let that young core ride?

"At times I do, but you don't want to think about it too much," he said. "And you never know what could happen, you could team up with those guys again."

I'm catching a whiff of Benedict Arnold here, but maybe he's just star-f*cking?

[Mav Addict]

I dunno......that article left a bad taste in my mouth as well, like he nut riding the Heat

Maybe the new CBA will do something about players hoarding their talents to teams not named the Mavs

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Underdog

How could he not be happy? He's getting paid an ass-load of money, the least he can do is PRETEND like his team has a shot at winning it all...

This is a guy whose production can make or break the Mavs this season, and he's already crowning the Heat before the first game of the season is even played? If he doesn't believe the Mavs have a chance, then why should anyone else?

Might as well just kick Dirk in the nuts, take his money and leave...



EDIT: then there's this:



I'm catching a whiff of Benedict Arnold here, but maybe he's just star-f*cking?

I think it's just "star-f*cking" as you said haha. He clearly talked about Dallas in a positive manner earlier and later in that article. He's just been in situations where he felt like he was close or on the verge of being right in the title race...he just wants to get over that hump.

Plus, all he really said is 73 games is possible, he didn't say the trophy was landing in South Beach. For me, I actually think the record isn't out of the realm of possibilities. Think about it, Miami was ALREADY a playoff team when it was just Wade. LeBron with "junk" won 60 games back to back years. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I can see it.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Plus, all he really said is 73 games is possible, he didn't say the trophy was landing in South Beach. For me, I actually think the record isn't out of the realm of possibilities. Think about it, Miami was ALREADY a playoff team when it was just Wade. LeBron with "junk" won 60 games back to back years. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I can see it.

73 wins = title

Seriously, you're talking about 9 losses over an 82-game season. If they do that, I don't see how anyone hands them 4 losses in a 7-game series, especially since they'll probably have to win every regular season series to get that record.

Also, Miami making the playoffs and LeBron winning 60 games with "junk" (which they weren't) doesn't equate to Wade/LeBron/Bosh automatically beating the Bulls record... Especially since the Bulls were a TEAM that had been together for years and had already won rings before they achieved that... If Miami can win 73 games right out of the gate, then I suppose they'll have an 82-win season after they've gelled for a couple years...

It really sounds like Butler is trying to nut-ride his way to Miami after his contract is up here, which makes me question what kind of effort he's going to put forth this season (probably just enough to up his value...)

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Underdog

73 wins = title

Seriously, you're talking about 9 losses over an 82-game season. If they do that, I don't see how anyone hands them 4 losses in a 7-game series, especially since they'll probably have to win every regular season series to get that record.

Also, Miami making the playoffs and LeBron winning 60 games with "junk" (which they weren't) doesn't equate to Wade/LeBron/Bosh automatically beating the Bulls record... Especially since the Bulls were a TEAM that had been together for years and had already won rings before they achieved that... If Miami can win 73 games right out of the gate, then I suppose they'll have an 82-win season after they've gelled for a couple years...

It really sounds like Butler is trying to nut-ride his way to Miami after his contract is up here, which makes me question what kind of effort he's going to put forth this season (probably just enough to up his value...)

I know it's a totally different situation...BUT it's the other side of the spectrum.
Look at what 67 wins can get you. You just don't know.
What if they lose a season series to Boston, Chicago or Orlando...what if they get swept 0-2 to the Lakers? That still falls in the category of breaking the streak and being in some trouble.

I didn't say it was a lock to happen, but I definitely see that record breaking before the 33-game win streak for the Lakers. To me, it's just a mixture of those three guys figuring out what to do on offense. All 3 (for the most part) are unselfish guys on the court, especially for the big one in question (LeBron). If he was willing to pass out of a double team or realize Mo Williams was open and willingly give him the ball, I don't see how it's really going to be THAT big of a problem gelling.

They know each others games and know what they like and have shared the floor with each other. It might not be the actual game setting, to an extent, but they know.

[fluid.forty.one]

ya... we had 67 wins and lost to an 8 seed. I wouldn't put choking past Lebron even on a 73 win team (for the record, I don't think they will win 73 ever...)

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I didn't say it was a lock to happen

Yeah, I was arguing with Caron, not you...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

(for the record, I don't think they will win 73 ever...)

They definitely won't win 73 games (or possibly even a ring) without a real center.

They don't have an answer for Dwight Howard, and even Garnett/Shaq will abuse Bosh/Big Z in the paint on both ends of the floor...

[CadBane]

KG doesn't abuse ANYONE in the pain. His game is strictly mid-range jumpers.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Underdog

They definitely won't win 73 games (or possibly even a ring) without a real center.

They don't have an answer for Dwight Howard, and even Garnett/Shaq will abuse Bosh/Big Z in the paint on both ends of the floor...

They really don't...but from what I've heard from people I talk to who cover the Heat, they're really excited about Joel Anthony. He's clearly not the prototypical center you look for but he can play. I know it's not saying much but he's a blocks/minute beast. It's just a matter of if he can do it on a larger scale.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Underdog

They definitely won't win 73 games (or possibly even a ring) without a real center.

They don't have an answer for Dwight Howard, and even Garnett/Shaq will abuse Bosh/Big Z in the paint on both ends of the floor...

So what, Wade and James running and jumping into the center until they sit with foul trouble on the bench. Problem solved

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by Underdog

They definitely won't win 73 games (or possibly even a ring) without a real center.

They don't have an answer for Dwight Howard, and even Garnett/Shaq will abuse Bosh/Big Z in the paint on both ends of the floor...

You have absolutely right.They never won't win 73 games.Yes Heat will be very good team in 2010-2011 season.But they haven't good center they have only Big Z he isn't good answer on Shaq,Howard.Their chance on win chmpionship are very small.Some peoples think Lebron Wade Bosh wow they win championship.But truth is different.They haven't good center players and their beanch is weak.Juwan Howard he has 37 years only Miller is good player.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by CadBane

KG doesn't abuse ANYONE in the pain. His game is strictly mid-range jumpers.

That's why I said "Garnett/Shaq" not "Garnett and Shaq" - they're one unit, and Garnett will absolutely abuse those guys on the defensive end of the court while Shaq is still a defensive force and a pretty good scorer in the paint...

But I like how you cherry-picked the details you don't agree with and completely ignored the main point I was trying to make: there's no way the Heat win 73 this season with the bigs they have...

(hell, even 41mvp got what I was saying, and he's dealing with a massive language barrier...)

[jayC]

I hate the heat but Pat Riley did a masterful job creating cap space for three max free agents and having enough over to sign some nice role players. We got heated again just like in 06.

I always thought players wanted to come here, but sadly it doesn't look like that is the case. We couldn't even keep our own one a Steve Nash. I'm still a mavs fan for life, but a team with Dirk as your best player won't win an NBA title. Hopefully a free agent will want to come here when we finally have a team.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by jayC

I hate the heat but Pat Riley did a masterful job creating cap space for three max free agents and having enough over to sign some nice role players. We got heated again just like in 06.

I always thought players wanted to come here, but sadly it doesn't look like that is the case. We couldn't even keep our own one a Steve Nash. I'm still a mavs fan for life, but a team with Dirk as your best player won't win an NBA title. Hopefully a free agent will want to come here when we finally have a team.

wow

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by jayC

I hate the heat but Pat Riley did a masterful job creating cap space for three max free agents and having enough over to sign some nice role players. We got heated again just like in 06.

I always thought players wanted to come here, but sadly it doesn't look like that is the case. We couldn't even keep our own one a Steve Nash. I'm still a mavs fan for life, but a team with Dirk as your best player won't win an NBA title. Hopefully a free agent will want to come here when we finally have a team.

uuuuhhhh..

How dare you say anything about Dirk.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's why I said "Garnett/Shaq" not "Garnett and Shaq" - they're one unit, and Garnett will absolutely abuse those guys on the defensive end of the court while Shaq is still a defensive force and a pretty good scorer in the paint...

But I like how you cherry-picked the details you don't agree with and completely ignored the main point I was trying to make: there's no way the Heat win 73 this season with the bigs they have...

(hell, even 41mvp got what I was saying, and he's dealing with a massive language barrier...)

No, I absolutely agree there is no way they win 73 games. No way. I will personally give UD a hug if they win 73.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

wow

Double wow. You do realize a team led by Dirk that started ADRIAN GRIFFIN and DESAGNA DIOP came one Emperor away from winning a ring? How stupid are some people. Dirk has almost always been a monster in the playoffs, top 10 playoff PER in NBA HISTORY. Dirk aint the problem. Dirk can (and should have already) a ring as the first banana. However, that will only hold true for a few more years.

[41mvp]

73 games NO WAY absolutely!!!

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

73 games NO WAY absolutely!!!

I am not positive, but I think I agree with this.

[mavs777]

Caron Butler had a simple small opinion about his former team, I have no problem with that

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

73 games NO WAY absolutely!!!

Originally Posted by ribosoma

I am not positive, but I think I agree with this.

I DO NOT agree with it 0%. Absolutely yes!

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I DO NOT agree with it 0%. Absolutely yes!

If you think Miami win 73 games in regular season.I must this say you have CRAZY thoughts.

[SMC0007]

Take it out on the court then!

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Caron Butler had a simple small opinion about his former team, I have no problem with that

It is the slow part of the offseason...

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

They really don't...but from what I've heard from people I talk to who cover the Heat, they're really excited about Joel Anthony. He's clearly not the prototypical center you look for but he can play. I know it's not saying much but he's a blocks/minute beast. It's just a matter of if he can do it on a larger scale.

Bosh's body guard, that's all, weakside defense, boards, throw some bodies around. Written in as the starting center. They can toss Z, Haslem in there as well, not a bad setup. He signed 5 years 18 million, Canadien National team.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by jayC

I hate the heat but Pat Riley did a masterful job creating cap space for three max free agents and having enough over to sign some nice role players. We got heated again just like in 06.

I always thought players wanted to come here, but sadly it doesn't look like that is the case. We couldn't even keep our own one a Steve Nash. I'm still a mavs fan for life, but a team with Dirk as your best player won't win an NBA title. Hopefully a free agent will want to come here when we finally have a team.

When you can add Mike Miller, Ilgauskas, Eddie House, to the Big 3, resign Haslem, Anthony, James Jones and hang onto Chalmers, it's not too bad, and if one of your 2nd rounders can play rotation minutes, it's huge. After the Big 3 you're really looking at filling 126 minutes a night, given the Big 3 will get 38 a night. You can pencil in Miller for 30 of those, the center minutes split amongst Z, Haslem and Anthony, Haslem takes the 10 behind Bosh, that kicks out another 58 minutes, you're left with 38 minutes to split amongst, Jones, House and Chalmers...dependent on what you need that night, shooters in House and Jones and an additional playmaker/defender in Chalmers.

[fluid.forty.one]

Dirk said he would have had to consider it if LeBron asked him to come to Miami... what's wrong with what Caron said? Also, Dirk is very, very complimentary to other teams...

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

They really don't...but from what I've heard from people I talk to who cover the Heat, they're really excited about Joel Anthony. He's clearly not the prototypical center you look for but he can play. I know it's not saying much but he's a blocks/minute beast. It's just a matter of if he can do it on a larger scale.

He seems to be a complete liability on the boards though. 6.8 rebounds per 36 minutes? Those are numbers that would make Eddy Curry feel embarrassed.

[wilmtalk]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

He seems to be a complete liability on the boards though. 6.8 rebounds per 36 minutes? Those are numbers that would make Eddy Curry feel embarrassed.

I don't really know enough to comment specifically in his case but rb numbers don't always speak to a players ability to rebound. A lot is dependant on the type of defense the them plays an the role the player plays in that defense. In certain zone's the player is not always in a position to get rb's. I have often seen players with good rb numbers traded to a team that utilized them differenly defensively and their rb numbers dropped considerably. A player who challenges more shooters will often be out of position to get rb's where as a player who doesn't but only stays under the basket will have his numbers go up. The type of switching defense's that are played by some teams since the zone was legalized make it hard to relie on numbers alonge to gage ability. It would be more telling if one knew if the numbers a player had were contested rb or or not.

[tcat075]

So this is pretty random, but is there a basketball stats site that divides stats by the quarter? Basically, I'm curious to see how many threes Dirk hit last year in the 4th quarter opposed to the first three quarters.

82games has that a little bit. Their clutch stats gives a little info, such as Dirk shoots 67% from downtown in the "clutch". There's not another player in the top 75 of that list that shoots even 60%. It does not give quantitative stats though, just per 48 and per game stuff, which is not exactly what I'm looking for.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by tcat075

So this is pretty random, but is there a basketball stats site that divides stats by the quarter? Basically, I'm curious to see how many threes Dirk hit last year in the 4th quarter opposed to the first three quarters.

82games has that a little bit. Their clutch stats gives a little info, such as Dirk shoots 67% from downtown in the "clutch". There's not another player in the top 75 of that list that shoots even 60%. It does not give quantitative stats though, just per 48 and per game stuff, which is not exactly what I'm looking for.

I noted this last season. We all know Dirk barely shot any threes last year, but I swear at least 70% of his made threes occurred in the 4th Quarter or OT. It's like he just turns on a switch and is like, time to hit some daggers.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Caron Butler had a simple small opinion about his former team, I have no problem with that

Are you kidding me? Players can't have opinions. WE NEED ROBOTS!

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by CadBane

I noted this last season. We all know Dirk barely shot any threes last year, but I swear at least 70% of his made threes occurred in the 4th Quarter or OT. It's like he just turns on a switch and is like, time to hit some daggers.

Yup. He's very much a situational three point shooter nowadays. When the Mavericks need a three pointer, he'll shoot them. He could easily hit over 100 treys a year if he put some more focus on shooting them.

[Spurred1]

Originally Posted by jayC

I hate the heat but Pat Riley did a masterful job creating cap space for three max free agents and having enough over to sign some nice role players. We got heated again just like in 06.

I always thought players wanted to come here, but sadly it doesn't look like that is the case. We couldn't even keep our own one a Steve Nash. I'm still a mavs fan for life, but a team with Dirk as your best player won't win an NBA title. Hopefully a free agent will want to come here when we finally have a team.

How did "we" get heated again? Do you really think the Mavs were in serious competition to land Bosh/Wade or LeBron? Mavs didn't have a need for Bosh, since they already have a PF. Oh wait-Dirk sucks. Nvm. Wade probably never had any intention of leaving Miami, and there were signs all along that these three guys had been planning to play together on the same team if the opportunity arose, which it did. End of story. The three main guys took pay cuts specifically so Riley would have enough to sign those role players. A lot of those role players also took lesser pay so they could ring chase.
Nash left for more money. Now, there seems to be a huge love for Steve Nash in Mavsland-but consider this-how many rings has he won again? Why are people so sure that more years of Dirk & Nash would have won anything? Dirk is a defensive question mark and Nash is horrid defensively. Nash has never made it to the Finals despite having pretty damn good teams.
I don't think it has anything to do with Dirk being the best player or not. It has more to do with the overall team performance and chemistry. I don't think Dirk was the reason the Mavs lost to SA or lost to Denver the year before. Dirk and Bass were the only guys who showed up against NO in 2008.

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Dirk said he would have had to consider it if LeBron asked him to come to Miami... what's wrong with what Caron said? Also, Dirk is very, very complimentary to other teams...

This.

I don't find anything wrong with what Butler said, Butler still has friends on the cHeat so I would think he want's them to do good.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Are you kidding me? Players can't have opinions. WE NEED ROBOTS!

[this post is a response to several other posts, not just yours]


Sure, "the Heat will win 73 games" is an opinion (he didn't say he "liked them", he said they'd have the best regular season in NBA history, right out of the gate...)

"The sky is red" is also an opinion...

Just because someone states an opinion, doesn't mean someone else can't point out the flawed logic of said opinion...

In my opinion, Butler comes across as a jackass for saying that because it implies that the Mavs don't have a shot at beating the Heat. That's not exactly what I want to hear as a Mavs fan, especially since that team hasn't proved a damn thing yet... Butler comes across as someone who has already given up - the math behind a team winning 73 games in an 82-game season supports my opinion....

He could have said they were good, but he went out on a limb and projected them as the best regular season squad ever... That's not the same as Dirk complimenting a player who guards him well (something proven, not implied) - it sounds more like Butler trying to jock-ride so he can go join them next summer... Once again, not what I want to hear as a Mavs fan, especially because Caron has the natural ability to give us what we could have traded for in Joe Johnson or Andre Iguodala, but that's 100% up to him (and I don't think his mind in the right place to achieve that when he's declaring himself as the Heat's #1 fan...)

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by Underdog

[this post is a response to several other posts, not just yours]


Sure, "the Heat will win 73 games" is an opinion (he didn't say he "liked them", he said they'd have the best regular season in NBA history, right out of the gate...)

"The sky is red" is also an opinion...

Just because someone states an opinion, doesn't mean someone else can't point out the flawed logic of said opinion...

In my opinion, Butler comes across as a jackass for saying that because it implies that the Mavs don't have a shot at beating the Heat. That's not exactly what I want to hear as a Mavs fan, especially since that team hasn't proved a damn thing yet... Butler comes across as someone who has already given up - the math behind a team winning 73 games in an 82-game season supports my opinion....

He could have said they were good, but he went out on a limb and projected them as the best regular season squad ever... That's not the same as Dirk complimenting a player who guards him well (something proven, not implied) - it sounds more like Butler trying to jock-ride so he can go join them next summer... Once again, not what I want to hear as a Mavs fan, especially because Caron has the natural ability to give us what we could have traded for in Joe Johnson or Andre Iguodala, but that's 100% up to him (and I don't think his mind in the right place to achieve that when he's declaring himself as the Heat's #1 fan...)

Yeah, I don't care that Butler said it. Its not like he needs to be all "the sky is deep, deep, royal blue with clouds not projected to be in the forecast for the next two weeks all is well with the Mavericks". He owes no allegiance to this team. Its Butler's 4th team in the NBA and he's been with it half a year, has been speculated to be in a dozen different trade scenarios, is viewed by some Dallas sports writers as more of a trade chip than a player, and will be leaving next offseason anyway. He doesn't need to go out a diss the team, but if he doesn't have on Maverick-tinted sun glasses, so what? Simply a Maverick tinted bifocal will do the trick. Don't say, "Well, I think we're not very good, too old, and win 32 games this year", but if you don't believe that this team will win a championship, just shy away from that topic or answer vaguely when it comes up. Hundreds of players do that.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Yeah, I don't care that Butler said it. Its not like he needs to be all "the sky is deep, deep, royal blue with clouds not projected to be in the forecast for the next two weeks all is well with the Mavericks". He owes no allegiance to this team. Its Butler's 4th team in the NBA and he's been with it half a year, has been speculated to be in a dozen different trade scenarios, is viewed by some Dallas sports writers as more of a trade chip than a player, and will be leaving next offseason anyway. He doesn't need to go out a diss the team, but if he doesn't have on Maverick-tinted sun glasses, so what? Simply a Maverick tinted bifocal will do the trick. Don't say, "Well, I think we're not very good, too old, and win 32 games this year", but if you don't believe that this team will win a championship, just shy away from that topic or answer vaguely when it comes up. Hundreds of players do that.

But this is Texas, specifically Dallas - I expect a bigger pair of cojones on my players...

(although that mincy attitude would fit nicely with all the thong-wearing fellas in Miami Beach!)

[Spurred1]

Don't have any big problem with what Butler said. Everyone is pretty much saying this Heat team is destined to win 70+ games. My guess is that no NBA player would be surprised if they accomplished this feat-considering what Wade and LeBron have done on their own for the most part.
He may very well wind up playing for them again at some point in his career-no need to criticize them or burn any bridges.