Israel in Lebanon again--- uh oh.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

But if there was no Hezbollah Lebanon would be deafeated in one day by Israel. In that reagion ther will always be battles because of religion and because the land was divided unfairly. So groups like this are needed for countries like Lebanon. There is actually a lot of good that they do too. And Israel is not better, if anythin theyr worse cuz they kill more civilians.

Now you are just getting silly. Israel is NOT worse than hexbollah. Period.

[Drbio]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

But if there was no Hezbollah Lebanon would be deafeated in one day by Israel. In that reagion ther will always be battles because of religion and because the land was divided unfairly. So groups like this are needed for countries like Lebanon. There is actually a lot of good that they do too. And Israel is not better, if anythin theyr worse cuz they kill more civilians.

You are either an anti-semite or have been brainwashed by hezbollah and the like. Disgusting either way.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

"Why didn't the governement of Lebanon disarm Hez"?

You ask that question as if it where the govt of Israel or Germany or the US we are talking about, rather than the 48 LB weakling govt that emerged after Syria "pulled" out. Lebanon WAS a re-emerging shattered state. Lebanon WAS one of the few bright points in the middle east the last few years, but becasue of its TRAJECTORY, not its relative position (in stability or strength or economy or whatever). Its trajectory was nice, but it was starting from a pretty low point.

the disarming of hezbollah SHOULD have been pursued contemporaneously with the removal of the syrian forces. it is because of the existance of the hezbollah militia that the lebanese government was "the 48LB weakling".

almost everybody cheered when the collective group of nations forced syria out of lebanon. in hindsight that was a mistake as the vacuum that then existed was exploited by hezbollah, and now the syrians proclaim their innocence in regard to the events happening in lebanon. but who would have predicted...

Asking that question is almost like asking Karzai why the hell he hasn't disarmed teh militias on the pakistani border... I mean he IS the government, right? Why doesn't he just write a law? (btw I know lebanon is not in the same league of disfunction as Afghanistan, but the general point still holds)

no, you are comparing apples to oranges. afganistan is much larger with less population density and a completely different terrain. there are so many places for fighters to hide in afganistan.

[nowitzki_prophecy]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

no, you are comparing apples to oranges. afganistan is much larger with less population density and a completely different terrain. there are so many places for fighters to hide in afganistan.

You'd be amazed how many places you can find in Lebanon.

[mcsluggo]

Plus Karzai has the military might of the US, Britain, Canada ... etc ... behind him in Afghanistan. With the pull-out of Syria, the Lebanese are pretty much standing on their own. I haven't actually looked this up (so I might be wrong) but I'd imagine the Hez militia field a more powerfull fighting force than the official govt of Lebanon. Kinda leaves 'em between a rock and a hard place, no?

[Usually Lurkin]

From Joshuapundit
http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/200...ites-back.html

Once, there was a small nation created by international consensus from the ashes of a world war. It included two main nationalities and it was the only free nation in the region, surrounded by larger neighbors who resented it and coveted its land, which they felt rightfully belonged to them. In spite of that, it was a prosperous and free republic, and its citizens enjoyed one of the highest living standards in that part of the world.

As a result of the hostile attitude of its neighbor countries, this tiny country had developed a well trained and superbly equipped military, with advanced weapons and its own arms industry. It was also allied with the Western democracies both by its values and by strategic and practical necessity.

One of this small country`s warlike neighbors had a number of its former natives in a part of the tiny nation and began orchestrating riots and other terrorist activity among them in an effort to subvert and conquer their neighbo r. When the government of the small country attempted to restore order, the larger nation accused it of violating its former nationals' human rights and committing an "occupation."

A propaganda campaign was begun, claiming that the small country had committed "war crimes" and violated international law. Huge, violent demonstrations were organized by leaders of the larger nation to agitate for the "independence" of their former countrymen.

The larger nation claimed that it could not control the popular anger in the "street" and that it would be forced to go to war and plunge the region into chaos. The case was frequently made that the small country was "racist" and should never have been created at all.

A quartet of nations, including the Western democracies the small nation was allied with, came together to find a solution and a peace plan was created --without the input or agreement of anyone from the small country.

The peace plan involved a trade of land for peace, with the former nationals of the larger nation to have an independent state on a large part of the small country`s land.

No one in the Quartet would have considered repatriating the natives of the larger nation back to their original home country, or giving them some of the larger nation`s territory to live on.

When the leaders and diplomats of the small nation protested at this one-sided settlement, they were bullied into acceptance with threats of withdrawal of all aid and military assistance by the very western allies they had counted on for support in preserving their freedom. Instead, they were offered guarantees for the security of their remaining territory.

They were likewise abandoned by the international body that had brought them into existence in the first place. They reluctantly accepted the Quartet`s diktat, counting on the guarantees they were given for their security and territorial integrity. Certain politicians in the small country were even happy at the settlement, since the "occupation" was ended and peace preserved. And the international community congratulated them on making sacrifices and bold moves for peace.

After Munich, Czechoslovakia was forced to withdraw to indefensible borders, leaving a large part of its superb defenses and arms works in the hands of "Slovakia," a German satellite.

Less than a year later Slovakia became Germany`s bridge for invasion, and the tiny country was crushed between Hitler`s Germany and Pilsudski`s Poland. The international community did nothing to honor its guarantees, nothing whatever...and alone, without a single voice being raised in protest, the Czechs were crushed.

When the Western democracies threw Czechoslovakia to the wolves they eliminated Hitler`s worry about a strong adversary on his eastern border, paved the way for the Comintern Pact with Russia and virtually guaranteed World War Two. Had the West stood by Czechoslovakia, Hitler would never have dared to move.

Those who favor bullying Israel into a so-called peace settlement would do well to remember the last time the West betrayed a strong ally to preserve "peace in our time." They might want to consider what a victory of this kind for the forces of Islamic fascism might mean to the West and preserving its freedom.

And the Israelis would do well to remember that all the security guarantees in the world are no substitute for defensible borders and a strong military. And that `security' is not something that can be left to others.

History bites back, especially to those who forget its lessons.

[nowitzki_prophecy]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

And the Israelis would do well to remember that all the security guarantees in the world are no substitute for defensible borders and a strong military. And that `security' is not something that can be left to others.

.

Very true,but israel is not very happy in occupieing southern lebanon,i think the "Lebanon War" is what cost us the most amount of lifes.
Besides,its Lebanons job to protect the borders and denying assaultes to other countries, not ours.
Its funny how every country other than the US condemn israel for its actions,yet France, Russia,or any other country for that matter would accuse Lebanon for letting hizballa act from within their borders,call it an act of war and bomb the hell out of everybody.
While israel makes it an effort to hurt only terrorist groups.
Its sad how weak the world is,and how much its determined by money and oil.
Did you know the UN is unwilling the call the Hizballa a terrorist organization?
Apparantly over 2000 missiles is insufficient.
I dont trust UN soldiers by a long shot... Its even proven UN soldiers were involved in the kidnapping of the 3 israeli soldiers a couple of years back,pathetic... United Nations my ass, they always were and always will be a weak organization who's not invlolved in determaning world movments.
What europe has failed to realize,is that its not only israel which is in war here,its the entire free world.
All in all,its Israel and the US,like it always been,and i think that's more than enough.

Its just reported that at least 8 soldiers were killed in fightings at southern lebanon,and it really hurts me to say that.
What bothers me even more is the reason,israel is being accused of cruelty,so they move in with the infantry for face to face combat within the arab villages after Hizballa had 6 years to set to stage for that kind battle with land-mines,RPG's,and as many explosives as Iran can give them in that much time, instead of dropping a few from above.
The villagers have received warnings to evacuate because they could be harmed if stayed but Hizballa is using the civilans as human shields and their houses as places to store weapons and start or finish a tunnel.
If it was the us or russia or any other big nation,the village would have been flat-lined a couple of hours after a warning was delivered to the citizens,and rightfully so if you ask me.
But europe accuses israel of cruelty.

[WurzburgBorn]

Wow. Forgive me, I'm new to this forum, but the thread is as predictable as the conflict.
Legitimate criticism of Israel's policies is always labeled anti-semitic in the U.S. Even when it's Jewish people criticizing their state's actions, then they're supposedly self-hating Jews.

Americans look at a piece of land that pretty much the rest of the world understands has a valid claim to be made on it by two different peoples, and we say Ok. We choose THAT side, OUR side. And we'll arm our side to the teeth while we pretend that we want peace for the region. OUR side has every right to defend themselves. The other guys are terrorists. Arabs are scum, have no hope at democracy, and Israel is God's shining light in a region populated by sub-human animals. Anyone who criticizes Israel's brutal actions is anti-semitic.
This is why the rest of the world thinks we Americans are so stupid sometimes.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by WurzburgBorn

Wow. Forgive me, I'm new to this forum, but the thread is as predictable as the conflict.
Legitimate criticism of Israel's policies is always labeled anti-semitic in the U.S. Even when it's Jewish people criticizing their state's actions, then they're supposedly self-hating Jews.

Americans look at a piece of land that pretty much the rest of the world understands has a valid claim to be made on it by two different peoples, and we say Ok. We choose THAT side, OUR side. And we'll arm our side to the teeth while we pretend that we want peace for the region. OUR side has every right to defend themselves. The other guys are terrorists. Arabs are scum, have no hope at democracy, and Israel is God's shining light in a region populated by sub-human animals. Anyone who criticizes Israel's brutal actions is anti-semitic.
This is why the rest of the world thinks we Americans are so stupid sometimes.

Damn good thing we are also. It is terribly "stupid" to support a country that has been having to battle for it's very existence against a group of people who teach in their classrooms that jews "kill babies for blood", that have leaders who say they should be "not allowed to live", "wiped off the face of the earth" and then are applauded for their rhetoric.

Yea...we shouldn't be on the israeli's side here. No matter WHAT the israelis do the arabs will try to kill them forever it seems.

No wonder europeans cannot be counted on when the heavy lifting is needed, except good old britannia.