Dallas Mavericks Offseason Thread - Page 191 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

EricaLubarsky · 10-23-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ericalubarsky

4) The front office obviously agrees with me that Jawai has nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

Well I guess the front office didn't agree with you...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

How about we wait until the season starts before I eat that crow. The team sits above the roster limit, and there has been little talk about Jawai in pressers, etc. I'll be glad to eat crow if it comes to it, but calling the game now is like predicting a team will win at halftime when the score is tied.

Still want to defend that point LSMF?

Dirkadirkastan · 10-23-2009, 01:29 PM

This was my only Jawai-related post before he was traded.

sefant77 · 10-23-2009, 02:15 PM

Jamison will miss the opener and 4-5 weeks more.

sefant77 · 10-24-2009, 10:18 PM

From Fish:

"DONUT 6: One more thing on J-Ho: It looks like this may be a situation the Mavs will have to get used to.

Said Carlisle of Howard: "It may be a while before Josh plays.’’

And I’m still left wondering why rehab on ankle surgery takes seven months … "

I really dont like that...

Usually Lurkin · 10-24-2009, 11:40 PM

somewhere there has to be a list of all the deals that were turned down because the other side wanted Josh Howard. KG's on that list. Ron Artest is on that list.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 10-24-2009, 11:52 PM

Do you have proof of either of those? I agree with the F.O. decision if they kept J-Ho over Artest, but if we turned down KG for J-Ho that's absolutely unacceptable.

StackAttack · 10-25-2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Do you have proof of either of those? I agree with the F.O. decision if they kept J-Ho over Artest, but if we turned down KG for J-Ho that's absolutely unacceptable.

It was something like KG for Devin and Josh. Maybe my memory's failing me, but that would've given us a starting lineup of JET, Stack, George, Dirk, and KG. I'd gladly bet on Kidd, JET, Josh, Marion, and Dirk in a game against that team.

Dirkadirkastan · 10-25-2009, 12:31 AM

I thought we tried to deal Devin and Josh for Kobe, but the Lakers wanted Dirk.

Usually Lurkin · 10-25-2009, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StackAttack

It was something like KG for Devin and Josh. Maybe my memory's failing me, but that would've given us a starting lineup of JET, Stack, George, Dirk, and KG. I'd gladly bet on Kidd, JET, Josh, Marion, and Dirk in a game against that team.

um, I don't think Stack and George would still be with us.

Usually Lurkin · 10-25-2009, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Do you have proof of either of those? I agree with the F.O. decision if they kept J-Ho over Artest, but if we turned down KG for J-Ho that's absolutely unacceptable.

I'm wondering if the proof is out there. I remember reading about those. ANd I think there's others that I can't put my finger on. I'd take last year's Artest over last years Josh Howard.

dirno2000 · 10-25-2009, 01:37 AM

Josh Howard the deal breaker in a KG deal...you never read that. Dirk, yea but not Josh.

He was the deal breaker in the Artest deal and he should have been. Artest kind of sucked last year and, according to reports, was a distraction. That's why the Houston made little to no attempt to ink him to a long term deal then quickly turned around and signed Ariza.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 10-25-2009, 05:21 AM

That's nuts. KG is a former MVP. You do not turn down former MVPs for Josh Howards. Then again I admit Devin+Josh makes it a little more balanced. I still say they should of done it though.

AO41 · 10-25-2009, 09:45 AM

Josh should have been traded a long time ago...hed hurts the team as much as he helps and if we trade him now I still think we can get a good starting SG and possinlg a OK center

sefant77 · 10-25-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

Josh should have been traded a long time ago...hed hurts the team as much as he helps and if we trade him now I still think we can get a good starting SG and possinlg a OK center

Jax + Turiaf?

quietsavant · 10-25-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Josh Howard the deal breaker in a KG deal...you never read that. Dirk, yea but not Josh.

He was the deal breaker in the Artest deal and he should have been. Artest kind of sucked last year and, according to reports, was a distraction. That's why the Houston made little to no attempt to ink him to a long term deal then quickly turned around and signed Ariza.

Quote:

MAVS TALK KG
Dallas Enters 'Sexy' Discussions
Mike Fisher -- DB.com

The Mavs, we've learned, have quietly laid the groundwork necessary to be bidders in the Kevin Garnett Sweepstakes, with a backup plan to land an impact lottery-level player in Thursday’s NBA Draft.
“We know what’s going on out there,’’ Mavs president Donnie Nelson tells us. “If there is a way to get something like that done, we’ll probe it.’’

From what we can gather, Dallas has done more than probe. NBA sources say Minnesota has been very clear in talks what they would require from the Mavs: A draft pick between No. 3 and No. 7 overall; a package of expiring contracts; and a future young star.

And the Mavs, we’re told, have informed the T’Wolves that “we are not scared of the money part’’ and that “we are interested.’’

Nelson would not confirm those details except to say, “A deal like this is unlikely because there are so many moving parts. It’s sexy to talk about. But that being said, we won 67 games. We were in the Finals last summer. We love our team.’’

There’s no denying that the Mavs could stand pat and remain elite. At the same time, there is so much logic (and just enough whispers) to affirm that the necessary homework is being done. For instance, some details on what we’ve learned:

* The Mavs believe they are shy in the “expiring contracts’’ department. Austin Croshere is a potential piece, as is Jerry Stackhouse. But Stack’s situation is complicated: The Mavs would prefer not to part with him. And, he’d have to agree to sign his way to a trade to Minnesota. We get strong indications that his agent would balk at that request.

DallasBasketball.com's very clever David Lord tosses out a wildly creative notion: With Dallas still technically owning the rights to Keith Van Horn, can they "invent an expiring contract'' and throw him into the deal?

* There are those in the organization that visualize the acquisition of superstar Garnett happening without sacrificing Dallas’ collection of young talent. But the overriding feeling is that “we’d be awfully stripped down,’’ as one staffer put it. “It’d be Dirk and KG and a bunch of supporting guys. We’d look like LA with Kobe and KG and a bunch of guys. We might have no (quality) 1’s or 2’s or 3’s. Does that really make us better?’’

* From an X’s-and-O’s standpoint, the answer to that question seems to be, “Yes.’’ One NBA assistant tells us that “KG is like Dirk’’ in the sense that he can create for himself, so Avery Johnson’s desire for a premier and pure point guard would be lessened.

* In theory, the Mavs would be forced to part with Josh Howard and Jason Terry (and maybe Devin Harris?) if involved in a three-way deal. Part of that package would go to a lottery team in order to get a premier pick, which would be shipped to Minnesota along with the rest of the talent. We are certain the Mavs have spoken with Boston at No. 5 – but we are also told as of very late Monday night that a deal with the Celtics is “unlikely.’’

* Why? Probably because the No. 5 spot is too far down the draft to nab Florida’s Al Horford, who we have learned is the apple of the T’wolves’ eye – and the apple of the Mavs’ eye, too. Dallas sees him as the Brand/Boozer sort of power forward we’ve been clamoring for around here for years. And if a premier pick were acquired by the Mavs but then a deal with Minny not consummated, a young Brand/Boozer would be a terrific consolation prize for Dallas.

* Horford, however, will not get past Atlanta at No. 3, the Mavs believe. Therefore, we assume Dallas is in conversation with the Hawks. Meanwhile, the Mavs think highly of Chinese 7-footer Yi Jianlian. (Who, by the way, is more known by Mavs aide Del Harris than by another other coach on the planet.) And they do not think highly (in terms of his being a top-five guy) of Florida’s Joakim Noah. (“His hustle makes him appear to be more talented than he is,’’ says one voice. “You’d love to have him. But he’s not a difference-maker.’’) So you might be able to laugh off the rumor of Jason Terry being swapped for Noah.

* Put another way: As a Mavs staffer tells us, “We can’t just create a top-seven pick out of mid-air.’’ And in a related issue: Can Mavs rival Phoenix create something like this out of mid-air? Well, yeah. With two No. 1 picks this year and Atlanta’s No. 1 next year, the ammunition seems easier for the Suns to load up.

* One more thing about draft order (and while it might not necessarily be Mavs-related, you still get to hear it here first: Sources with knowledge of the thoughts of a variety of NBA teams swear Yi won’t get past Milwaukee at No. 6. And if Don Nelson has his way, his Warriors make a leap from No. 18 and Nellie gets himself another unique foreign talent.

* Without a doubt, the Mavs have expressed to Minnesota that they believe they can top LA’s offer of Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom. “A flimsy offer,’’ one source scoffs. Dallas knows it is more likely it’ll have to pattern its proposal after the Boston-Minnesota deal that would’ve happened had KG not vetoed the swap: Garnett to the Celtics for young forward Al Jefferson, a lottery pick, and Theo Ratliff and his expiring contract. Dallas has enough talent to handle the Jefferson-like part. But how to get a lotto pick? How to add up to Ratliff numbers? How to throw in enough other pieces to satisfy what will certainly be Minnesota’s desire to dump into the deal overpaid players like Troy Hudson?

“Mark this down,’’ says a source. “You want in on this, you’re going to be taking on some of Minnesota’s bad contracts.’’

* Maybe that what the Mavs meant when they expressed to Minnesota that they don’t care about “the money part.’’ Or maybe it’s a message to not worry about waiting until after the draft to pull the trigger. On the surface, it would seem the Mavs should hope Minnesota waits until draft night and beyond to do anything because as time goes on, a commodity like Howard becomes a “base-year’’ player (after June 30) and therefore is more financially “filling’’ when it comes to trades. David Lord has pieced together a workable idea: Diop, Howard, Terry, Croshere and a No. 1 for KG and change. That can happen by mid-July.

But our impression is that Mavs owner Mark Cuban is willing to examine the right deal NOW as well.

* Using very round numbers here, understand that doing Howard-for-Garnett, one-for-one, leaves the Mavs about $17.5 shy of being legal. (J-Ho is worth $1.67 mil under the Dallas cap right now; after June 30 the number that Minny would count him for moves to $8.67 mil, but the Mavs can only take back $4.5 mil. See? It’s complicated.) Add JET, Erick Dampier and a pick and you get pretty close. Or try the Croshere/Van Horn idea as you search for whether Minny would rather have players like Terry and Damp or eventually cap room from "non-players'' Cro and KVH. ... Again. … lots of “moving parts.’’

* As one team exec puts it, “By the time real offers hit the table, the asking price is going to be outrageous. That’s the No. 1 reason I think nothing will happen: Minnesota’s going to end up wanting too much.’’

* Oh, and there’s this: One NBA staffer suggests to us that Minnesota isn’t enamored with the idea of getting Jason Terry. And apparently plenty of teams aren’t in love with the idea of acquiring Erick Dampier.

* We hate to even acknowledge the Chicago Tribune’s KG-to-Dallas angle, but we must: No, Dallas is NOT talking about getting Garnett by dumping Dirk Nowitzki. Dopes.

* It should be noted: The Mavs have no desire to lose Howard. And they still believe in Harris’ future. Terry, however, is clearly viewed as valued-but-expendable. One Mavs staffer says, “I think it’s a tough call. Jason’s a leader. He’s a chemistry guy. He’s important.’’ But, adds an NBA exec who has apparently been involved in phone conversations: “I think Avery will move him if he can.’’

* Kevin Garnett’s money comes up often. He’s got a trade kicker in his contract (we believe it's $3 million) though that could conceivably be waived. Still, the Mavs have in their minds thought of having to budget about $25 million a year for him. A 12-year vet, KG is due to make $22 mil this season and $23 mil next season, the final year of his existing deal. Oh, and Dallas can expect to be asked to give him an extension, too.

“Mark Cuban has never been scared of making the big move,’’ says one source.

And they don’t get much bigger – or much more complicated, or much more sexy – than this.

db.com archives, i believe this is what you guys are talking about

EricaLubarsky · 10-25-2009, 12:49 PM

Crticizing the organization for hypothetical trades that may never have even been discussed and justifiying them with wild speculation from Fish or Chef-- it makes me sick

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 10-25-2009, 01:22 PM

Actually I remember it now lol. I remember being involved I just dont remember the exact pieces. Oh well like it was said it's in the past it doesn't matter but Dirk+KG is pretty juicy but it's also true that our backcourt would possibly still suck to this day. /discussion of KG to Mavs for me

chumdawg · 10-25-2009, 02:15 PM

It was Josh for KG. And junk, of course. Boston outbid us and won a championship.

jthig32 · 10-25-2009, 03:03 PM

It wasn't Josh and junk. During a statistical analysis convention earlier this year, Cuban argued with a few other NBA people on a panel that he felt the Mavs offer for KG was superior to Boston's and that Boston's was accepted because of the relationship between McHale and Ainge.

Whether that has any merit is impossible to know without knowing what Dallas' actual offer was, but they obviously weren't outbidding Boston (even in Cuban's mind) without offering Josh and other quality pieces. It was widely assumed that Josh and Devin and perhaps Jet were part of the package, along with other pieces.

As Dirno said, I never saw it reported anywhere that the Mavs refused to part with Josh to get KG.

chumdawg · 10-25-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

It wasn't Josh and junk. During a statistical analysis convention earlier this year, Cuban argued with a few other NBA people on a panel that he felt the Mavs offer for KG was superior to Boston's and that Boston's was accepted because of the relationship between McHale and Ainge.

Whether that has any merit is impossible to know without knowing what Dallas' actual offer was, but they obviously weren't outbidding Boston (even in Cuban's mind) without offering Josh and other quality pieces. It was widely assumed that Josh and Devin and perhaps Jet were part of the package, along with other pieces.

As Dirno said, I never saw it reported anywhere that the Mavs refused to part with Josh to get KG.

I highly doubt that Devin was one of the pieces. I insist that our best offer was Josh and junk.

Did that get outbid? Obviously it did. But I suspect it was our best offer.

jthig32 · 10-25-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I highly doubt that Devin was one of the pieces. I insist that our best offer was Josh and junk.

Did that get outbid? Obviously it did. But I suspect it was our best offer.

What's your definition of junk? Damp?

Keep in mind this all happened before Josh's extension kicked in. So Josh was making less that 2mil a season. So you had to add 17mil in contracts to Josh's to make the trade work (just for Garnett).

There's no way you get that done without including Jet or Damp. There's absolutely no chance that the deal was Josh and random junk.

chumdawg · 10-25-2009, 03:55 PM

If it's Damp, it's definitely junk. Taking out the trash, even.

Usually Lurkin · 10-25-2009, 05:31 PM

As I've read around trying to refresh my memory, it seems one of the more common stories was that Dallas offered Josh and Devin for KG, but that Minnie didn't want Josh's contract.

But I did read that Cuban said no way they'd do a Pau Gasol for Howard trade.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-25-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

As I've read around trying to refresh my memory, it seems one of the more common stories was that Dallas offered Josh and Devin for KG, but that Minnie didn't want Josh's contract.

But I did read that Cuban said no way they'd do a Pau Gasol for Howard trade.

Mistake. I'd trade Howard for Pau 10 times out of 10.

dude1394 · 10-25-2009, 06:10 PM

Argg...josh for Pau is such a no brainer...I put that on Donnie...if he cannot convince mark to do that he's worthless.

EricaLubarsky · 10-25-2009, 08:06 PM

So Im about in tears right now because two years ago I heard rumor that someone had a glass of milk and willingly tipped it over. I mean maybe the spill never happened, and maybe it wasn't intentional at all, but the tears just keep rolling down my cheeks because I just keep thinking of how much better off I'd be now if I still had that full glass of milk instead of pouring myself another glass and making the best of it like I did.

Lets transition to Nash talk while we are at it.

Usually Lurkin · 10-25-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

So Im about in tears right now because two years ago I heard rumor that someone had a glass of milk and willingly tipped it over. I mean maybe the spill never happened, and maybe it wasn't intentional at all, but the tears just keep rolling down my cheeks because I just keep thinking of how much better off I'd be now if I still had that full glass of milk instead of pouring myself another glass and making the best of it like I did.

Lets transition to Nash talk while we are at it.

well the milk is spoiled, and now you gotta drink it. Your friend really should have traded that milk for a useful center or off-guard sometime in the past 2 years.

SMC0007 · 10-25-2009, 09:03 PM

I have teets focker, can you milk me?

Underdog · 10-25-2009, 09:10 PM

We should have traded our fanbase for . . .

sike · 10-25-2009, 09:25 PM

^^^that could get messier than even that spilled milk!

EricaLubarsky · 10-25-2009, 09:33 PM

It would also do an excellent job of absorbing it though

Usually Lurkin · 10-25-2009, 09:36 PM

that's funny. JHo was emptying those out and rolling stuff up in them.

darkwitzki · 10-25-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

Josh should have been traded a long time ago...hed hurts the team as much as he helps and if we trade him now I still think we can get a good starting SG and possinlg a OK center

The Toronto Raptors have been looking for a small forward, and HOOPSWORLD has learned that they may have finally found their man. A deal being discussed would send troubled forward Josh Howard to the Raptors in a deal that would land Andrea Bargnani and Anthony Parker in Dallas, with a combination that could involve DeSagana Diop and Antoine Wright headed back to Toronto.

Source : http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=11144

Here's your possible SG and Center..

January, 2009 article from Poopsworld

EricaLubarsky · 10-25-2009, 10:53 PM

just what we need-- another jumpshooting smallforward in the body of a center!

Seriously Bargnani is a subpar defender, subpar rebounder and 75% of his shots are jumpers. Seven footer does not equal center.

Parker is a solid journeyman who would have been satisfactory but not stellar at SG. Besides, we just need someone to defend and demand a defender when Terry isnt out there. Terry may not start but he's going to and has been play/ing starter minutes and finishing every game. We dont need a starting SG-- we need a backup SG that starts.

Rick41 · 10-25-2009, 10:58 PM

That article is from January. Anthony Parker is with the Cavs now.

grndmstr_c · 10-25-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

That article is from January...

And it's from poopsworld, which may have even less credibility than CD when it comes to speculating about trade offers that the Mavs may or may not have had on the table in months and years past.

Underdog · 10-25-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

That article is from January.

And it's written by Bill Ingram...

(I know "'nuff said" is played-out, but 'nuff said...)

AO41 · 10-26-2009, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Jax + Turiaf?

Maybe....but one of their young SG would have to be in that. Marrow, Azubukie, Watson...one of them

LSMF · 10-26-2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Still want to defend that point LSMF?

Good stuff. I have no problem admitting I was wrong. But my issue with you, was that you had already condemned Jawaii before he even had a chance to even show if he had any skill. I don't think that's fair to any player...

fluid.forty.one · 10-26-2009, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

Good stuff. I have no problem admitting I was wrong. But my issue with you, was that you had already condemned Jawaii before he even had a chance to even show if he had any skill. I don't think that's fair to any player...

you're right.. Jawaii just started playing the game in late July.