Messing around with the Numbers - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

seelenjaeger · 11-13-2003, 06:10 PM

I´m bored, so I´ll post some possible trades which came up my mind ... sorry for any inconvenience...

Trade 1

Key Players:
Antawn Jamison, Shawn Marion

Phoenix faces a problem - with the emergence of Amare Stoudamire they are in urgent need for true offense firepower, and not really needing any all-around guy like Shawn Marion, who is a great supplemental guy, but no franchise player. Tom Gugliottas contract will come off the books at the end of the season, and Anfernee Hardaway is on the decline. Marion is a BYC player, so to shop him, there has to be another team involved ... so here we go (just added the Draftpicks as a reminder that those might sweeten the deal, they are basically to be ignored):

Dallas trades
Antawn Jamison, Eduardo Najera, Tariq Abdul-Wahad to Phoenix
Michael Finley to Utah
2nd Round Pick to Phoenix

Phoenix trades
Shawn Marion, Anfernee Hardaway to Dallas
Jake Voskuhl or Roberd Archibald to Utah

Utah trades
Greg Ostertag, some first round pick in 2006-2008 to Dallas
Post-Trade Roster

Dallas
C - Ostertag, Bradley, Fortson
PF - Nowitzki, Walker
SF - Marion, Howard
SG - Delk, Hardaway, Daniels
PG - Nash, Best, Stefansson

Phoenix
C - White, Voskuhl (or Archibald), Trzebansky
PF - Stoudemire, Gugliotta, Williams
SF - Jamison, Cabarkapa, Najera
SG - Jacobsen, Johnson, Tariq Abdul-Wahad
PG - Marbury, Barbosa

Utah
C - Borchardt, Collins, Archibald (or Voskuhl)
PF - Kirilenko, Clark, Ruffin, Handlogten
SF - Harpring, Pavlovic
SG - Finley, Stevenson, Bell
PG - Arroyo, Lopez, Williams

From a Mavs point of view:

Finley, Jamison, Najera, TaW and a 2nd
for
Marion, Hardaway, Ostertag and a future first

This is (1) overpaying and (2) creating even more of a logjam at the forward position, BUT ... for some reason I think this would be a move putting us over the top.

We would get a D-first athletic rebounding SF with 3pt range and excellent personality and a Big Body. Hell, I hate ´tag, but I better have ´Tag, Bradley AND Fortson there than Dirk and Eddie playing Center all the time.

Anfernee Hardaway is kind of a sweetener for the trade. Though he´s peaked some years ago, he could still provide some athleticism and veteran minutes at SG, a position made for Howard in the long shot. His contract comes off the books earlier than the contract of all TaW, Najera and Jamison, so he´s more of a mid-time acquisition saving some money.

Nevertheless, this might not be a useful move, nor a realistic one, still, my boredom asks me to post this for some discussion ...

kg_veteran · 11-13-2003, 06:19 PM

SJ - That is an intricate scenario. I'd definitely take a hard look at it. One factor weighing against it in my mind is our ability to sign Tag as a FA in the offseason.

seelenjaeger · 11-13-2003, 06:35 PM

Well, basically that´s the reason why he is included.

Utah has to face the possibility of losing him without compensation, but we need some cap space eating team to make up for the BYC of Marion. So by shopping Finley to Utah for Ostertag and a future (far away) first rounder (the upcoming first rounders might be too valuable) and giving them a big body from Phoenix to fill the vacant spot in the middle we get the cap relief we need to take Marion.

FineCubanCigar · 11-14-2003, 01:38 PM

I love Marion's game, he is the best rebounding 3 man in the league . . . he reminds me of a Finley on Roids and an extra 4" on his verticle.

Lvubun1 · 11-14-2003, 04:36 PM

No way the Suns trade Marion, besides the fact that Marion is better, not alot of teams want to touch Jamison's max contract for the next 6 years.

LRB · 11-14-2003, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
No way the Suns trade Marion, besides the fact that Marion is better, not alot of teams want to touch Jamison's max contract for the next 6 years.

Never say never. The suns did trade Jason Kidd.

kingrex · 11-14-2003, 05:16 PM

For the record, I wouldn't advocate a trade for this team. I'd rather see how they progress against he better teams in the league first.

However, since this discussion category is for trades, I'm up for a discussion.

Ostertag doesn't add much offensively or defensively. To me, he's just another 6 fouls to give. I agree it would take Dirk out of the 5-spot and put him where he can be most effective on 4, but that's the only plus for me.

Marion is a beast. I would love to have him on this team. He is a much better rebounder right now than Jamison and Finley individually, howerver, I'm starting to see Finley and Jamison crash the boards successfully. The question, therefore, is Marion's rebounding and offense better than what Jamison & Finley can get throughout the game, and I say no.

I can see the intrigue in the trade, but IMO the benefits are not enough to pull the trigger on the trade.

Oh, I almost forgot, Hardaway. Once a promising player on the decline. His addition to this roster is really a subtraction. He has not completed an entire season and as his body gets older, I don't see that changing. I liked him once upon a time, but he doesn't fit here.

seelenjaeger · 11-14-2003, 07:31 PM

Fine, after throwing out my fairly complicated but interesting trade one, another idea boggles my mind ... (much time to let things go at the moment - making technician on a play i´ve already seen like 40 times is just a manual job, no intellect needed)

Trade 2 (as usual, picks to sweeten the deal, not necessarily of importance):

Dallas trades

Antoine Walker, 2004 unprotected first rounder to New Jersey
Michael Finley, Eduardo Najera to Cleveland
2nd round pick to Utah

New Jersey trades

Aaron Williams, Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles to Dallas
Richard Jefferson to Cleveland
2nd rounder to Dallas

Cleveland trades

Chris Mihm, Darius Miles to Dallas
Ricky Davis to New Jersey
Michael Stewart to Utah
2nd rounder to Utah
1st rounder to NJ

Utah trades
2nd round pick to New Jersey

Post Trade Roster:

Dallas

C - Mihm, Bradley, Forston
PF - Nowitzki, Martin, Aaron Williams
SF - Jamison, Miles, TaW
SG - Delk, Kittles, Howard
PG - Nash, Best, Daniels

New Jersey

C - Mourning, Collins
PF - Walker, Rogers, Scalabrine
SF - Ricky Davis, Brown
SG - Harris, Armstrong, Slay
PG - Kidd, Pack, Planicic

Cleveland

C - Ilgauskas, Diop, Sundov
PF - Boozer, Najera
SF - Jefferson, Kapono, Newble
SG - Finley, Wagner, Bremer
PG - LeBron James, Ollie

Utah just adds Michael Stewart

Of course, a trade like this won´t happen. Still, I think thats a win-win-win trade - at least to some degree.

Dallas would trade Walker/Finley/Najera for Martin/Miles/Mihm/Kittles/A.Williams.

This means Dallas has to drop either Stefansson or Daniels, but adding Martin/Miles/Mihm would give us raw depth and some complementary skills, Kittles and Williams are solid and battle-proven veterans.

Not sure if a 10-guy rotation of Dirk (maybe back at C), Nash, Jamison, Martin, Delk, Kittles, Best, Miles, Williams and one out of Mihm / Bradley / Fortson would be better than our current squad, but it would be for sure deep as hell. One out of Howard, TaW, Daniels beeing on the active roster for the odd biggie ...

Why Cleveland would do it. That´s easy.

Miles and Ricky Davis are nice players, but they are not the Veterans to give LeBron enough time to mature. Finley + Jefferson is more than equal value, if you want to build around LeBron, Dajuan and Z. Losing Mihm hurts, but getting Najera adds some hustle on the weak PF slot.

Why would NJ do it?

On the brink of losing Kenyon Martin to Free Agency, getting Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis in return sounds like fun, though giving up Richard Jefferson really hurts. The first rounder could help getting help at SG if the current squad doesn´t succeed.

Utah gets a high salary big body and 2 2nd rounders for one, basically taking the salary.

Max Power · 11-14-2003, 08:21 PM

Nice trade sj but I'd probably pass. I really want to see more of Walker before I'd rush off to trade him. He is intriguing.

EricaLubarsky · 11-14-2003, 11:44 PM

thats actually a really fantastic trade idea Seelen

I dont know if I would do it but its nice to think about and it actually works for each team....kinda.

K-Mart wouldnt want to play behind Dirk. Mihm is a decent big body. I actually like Miles' play and Kittles could have a good time here. It would answer a lot of problems but its hard to trade away a guy who is averaging nearly a double-double with more than 4 apg.

sike · 11-15-2003, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: seelenjaeger
Fine, after throwing out my fairly complicated but interesting trade one, another idea boggles my mind ... (much time to let things go at the moment - making technician on a play i´ve already seen like 40 times is just a manual job, no intellect needed)

Trade 2 (as usual, picks to sweeten the deal, not necessarily of importance):

Dallas trades

Antoine Walker, 2004 unprotected first rounder to New Jersey
Michael Finley, Eduardo Najera to Cleveland
2nd round pick to Utah

New Jersey trades

Aaron Williams, Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles to Dallas
Richard Jefferson to Cleveland
2nd rounder to Dallas

Cleveland trades

Chris Mihm, Darius Miles to Dallas
Ricky Davis to New Jersey
Michael Stewart to Utah
2nd rounder to Utah
1st rounder to NJ

Utah trades
2nd round pick to New Jersey

Post Trade Roster:

Dallas

C - Mihm, Bradley, Forston
PF - Nowitzki, Martin, Aaron Williams
SF - Jamison, Miles, TaW
SG - Delk, Kittles, Howard
PG - Nash, Best, Daniels

New Jersey

C - Mourning, Collins
PF - Walker, Rogers, Scalabrine
SF - Ricky Davis, Brown
SG - Harris, Armstrong, Slay
PG - Kidd, Pack, Planicic

Cleveland

C - Ilgauskas, Diop, Sundov
PF - Boozer, Najera
SF - Jefferson, Kapono, Newble
SG - Finley, Wagner, Bremer
PG - LeBron James, Ollie

Utah just adds Michael Stewart

Of course, a trade like this won´t happen. Still, I think thats a win-win-win trade - at least to some degree.

Dallas would trade Walker/Finley/Najera for Martin/Miles/Mihm/Kittles/A.Williams.

This means Dallas has to drop either Stefansson or Daniels, but adding Martin/Miles/Mihm would give us raw depth and some complementary skills, Kittles and Williams are solid and battle-proven veterans.

Not sure if a 10-guy rotation of Dirk (maybe back at C), Nash, Jamison, Martin, Delk, Kittles, Best, Miles, Williams and one out of Mihm / Bradley / Fortson would be better than our current squad, but it would be for sure deep as hell. One out of Howard, TaW, Daniels beeing on the active roster for the odd biggie ...

Why Cleveland would do it. That´s easy.

Miles and Ricky Davis are nice players, but they are not the Veterans to give LeBron enough time to mature. Finley + Jefferson is more than equal value, if you want to build around LeBron, Dajuan and Z. Losing Mihm hurts, but getting Najera adds some hustle on the weak PF slot.

Why would NJ do it?

On the brink of losing Kenyon Martin to Free Agency, getting Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis in return sounds like fun, though giving up Richard Jefferson really hurts. The first rounder could help getting help at SG if the current squad doesn´t succeed.

Utah gets a high salary big body and 2 2nd rounders for one, basically taking the salary.

now you're just hurting my head....but that could be a good thing....

seelenjaeger · 11-15-2003, 07:59 PM

Well, today was our third on-stage day, so, guess what´s coming next ...

Trade 3:

Teams involved - Chicago, Dallas, Phillie
This time I don´t add the draft picks needed to make things work.

Dallas trades

Jamison, Delk to Chicago
Najera to Phillie

Chicago trades

Chandler, Marshall, Fizer to Dallas
Rose, Crawford to Phillie

Phillie trades

Robinson, Snow to Chicago
MacCulloch to Dallas

Post Game Rosters:

Dallas

C Chandler, Bradley, Fortson, MacCulloch
PF Nowitzki, Fizer
SF Walker, Marshall, TaW
SG Finley, Howard, Daniels
PG Nash, Best, Stefansson

Chicago

C Curry, Blount
PF Jaminson, Baxter
SF G. Robinson, E. Robinson, Johnson
SG Delk, Pippen, Gill
PG Snow, Hinrich, Jay Williams, Mason

Phillie

C Coleman, Dalembert, McCaskill
PF K. Thomas, M. Jackson, Najera
SF Rose, Williams, Korver
SG Iverson, McKie, Salmons
PG Crawford, Buckner, Green

Dallas trades Jamison, Najera, Delk for Chandler, Fizer, Marshall, McCulloch.

Why does ...

... Chicago do it? Because Crawford, Rose, Chandler don´t get along and it can hardly get worse. Fizer wants out aswell. By getting Jamison, Glenn Robinson, Delk and Snow they will be able to compete for the playoffs in the East.

... Phillie do it? Out is Robinson, the aging Snow. In comes Jalen Rose. And Eduardo Najera, Jamal Crawford. Nice complementary guys to make a run for the title. Crawford and Rose on the same team again? Well, this is Iverson´s team. And neither of those can deny it. So it might work better than in Chicago.

... Dallas do it? Getting an intriguing amount of young Power guys in Chandler and Fizer and a veteran Small Forward in Donyell Marshall. MacCulloch might never play again, if he should, he´d flourish in Nellies system. Else he´s just a cap concession to make the trade happen. With the amount of big bodies around, all Josh Howard (getting more minutes at SG), Michael Finley and Dirk Nowitzki (both because of Tall Ball) will flourish. In addition, if the Antoine Walker experiment doesnt work out fine, he can be traded in a "big for small" move, finding takers more easily.