Who should go if one has to? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

kg_veteran · 11-20-2003, 09:51 AM

Quote:

I would say Michael Finley. I love Fin, but with the emergence of Howard and with Delk on the bench, I think we have enough players to shore up the shooting guard position. Moreover, it would keep in tact the strong forward attackt that we have now with (Nowitzki, Walker & Jamison). Lastly, of the Big 5 he is the oldest (okay by one year) of the Big 5.

Again, Michael Finley is not going to bring you a premium big guy that is significantly better than what you can get via FA next summer, and honestly, if I had to choose, I'd have a hard time dealing him before either Walker or Jamison. I know how Finley fits into the equation here. The jury's still out on the other two.

Max Power · 11-20-2003, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kingrex
I would say Michael Finley. I love Fin, but with the emergence of Howard and with Delk on the bench, I think we have enough players to shore up the shooting guard position. Moreover, it would keep in tact the strong forward attackt that we have now with (Nowitzki, Walker & Jamison). Lastly, of the Big 5 he is the oldest (okay by one year) of the Big 5.

Nellie isn't going to trust a rookie and a career backup to man the shooting guard position. And if Finley IS dealt then we will have a "starter by committee" situation which I always hate.

Besides Finley isn't going to bring a Dale Davis, a Foyle, a Tsakalitis, or a Ostertag. All these players will probably sign for the MLE next offseason.

kingrex · 11-20-2003, 10:22 AM

That's why this thread is so difficult to answer. There are too many variables, like who do we get back. That's why I tried to boil it down to the simplest way to ask the question. Taking out who we get. In other words. let's say we get the same guy for any of the Big 5, then who would I let go of first of the Big 5. My answer is still Finley with the personnel that we have.

Now if you change the question to, who would you give up that will get us the best player back, then I agree it would probably be one of the forwards. Nash is almost untouchable for me, and Dirk (well, you know).

sike · 11-20-2003, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
another intriging stat...AW has jacked up 50 3s

and Nash only has attempted 32?!!!! like a child told Mike Jackson, "that is not a good thing!"

Psychedelic Fuzz · 11-20-2003, 01:04 PM

yes, and Nash was reprimanded by Nellie for trying to pass and involve everyone too much instead of looking for his own shot...
Dug up the per 48's and there is not a significant difference in most categories. Jamison has a couple more points, walker a couple more boards, but the difference maker to me is assists, of which Walker has twice as many. Walker is able to get to the hole, and then is more likely to hit the open man when he gets in trouble.

sike · 11-20-2003, 02:17 PM

Fuzz, you gotta admit that in the playoffs that low post game of AJ will come into play in a major way!..I can't wait for Dirk to start nailing all these open threes...that will be a fun game....Jamsion down low kicks it out to Nash who swings it over to Dirk for the open trey.....
"I'M PREACHING NOW!"

Jamisonite · 11-20-2003, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Walker's the better passer, defender, rebounder, and ballhandler, and has better range on his shot.

Jamison's the better scorer, athlete, leaper, and is a better interior scorer. He can get his shot off against anybody.

.

Im not too sure that Walker is a better defender

sike · 11-20-2003, 02:23 PM

Walker: better perimiter D
Jamison: better interior D

grndmstr_c · 11-20-2003, 02:28 PM

I will say that I've been pleasantly surprised by AJ's D. He had a horrible rep coming in, and while he hasn't been a stopper, more often than not I've seen him hustling and working at that end of the court (peace be with you, coach Knight).

sike · 11-20-2003, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I will say that I've been pleasantly surprised by AJ's D. He had a horrible rep coming in, and while he hasn't been a stopper, more often than not I've seen him hustling and working at that end of the court (peace be with you, coach Knight).

one thing I did'nt know about AJ is his quick hands....many times he has shut the other guy down by slapping at the ball and knocking it lose...

kingrex · 11-20-2003, 04:09 PM

Walker provides another passer other than Nash on the court. This will free Nash to be a shooter (which is always good). This also gives us the high-low option that is tough to defend. So, I don't want to lose Walker.

Jamison give us the athletic body that this team has missed. This athleticism helps in rebounding and gives us a slasher in the paint that can actually dunk. So, I don't want to lose Jamison.

Finley is a good shooter from the arc and midrange. He is athletic enough to play defense (if not always successfully on the perimeter). If we lose Finley, it would be a blow, but at least we have Delk to shore up the outside shooting and defense. Howard to shore up the defense and midrange shooting. Both can play the shooting guard position.

Therefore, if any one is more expendable of the Big 5, then I would say it was Finley.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-20-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kingrex
Firstly, I'm on the side that doesn't want to trade anyone, yet. However, since this is a "gun to your head" thread where we must trade someone, then it depends on the question.

If the question is who on the Mavs would you be willing to trade, then I would say anyone is tradable if the offer is right.

If the question is who of the Big 5 would I give up first, if it meant that a good player would be had in return?

I would say Michael Finley. I love Fin, but with the emergence of Howard and with Delk on the bench, I think we have enough players to shore up the shooting guard position. Moreover, it would keep in tact the strong forward attackt that we have now with (Nowitzki, Walker & Jamison). Lastly, of the Big 5 he is the oldest (okay by one year) of the Big 5.

What? When did Howard emerge? When you talk trade Finley you come into the same problem when trading Jamison or Walker. Sure you can trade these guys but when doing so you hope it is to fix a need at the 5 position. Then you ask yourself out of the untouchables(Curry, Shaq, Ming) who is there left to trade for? You then have your Ostertag's, Bradley's, Jerome Jame's and at the end of the day you realize there aren't any impact guys out there who teams would trade. Ben Wallace is the perfect guy when it comes to what the Mavs need. So then you say what if we can package Fin and Jamison/or Walker to get him. THat Piston's team is ran by Larry Brown. A defensive minded coach. He isn't going to take guys like Jamison, Fin, or Walker who aren't known for defending. Right now, the only guy I want to hear in a trade is for Ben Wallace and he is a untouchable. There are some guys you can get who the Mavs can benefit from but then you go from the talent of Fin, Walker, and Jamison to the Tony Delk's and Najera's. Those guys aare going to give you the same talent in return then you would for one of our Big 5 with the exception of Dirk.

bogey · 11-20-2003, 05:32 PM

I keep seeing Ben Wallace's name being brought up. There is no REASONABLE scenario in which he can be brought to Dallas. It can't happen.

sike · 11-20-2003, 05:46 PM

but what a freakin' great dream!!!

and Rex, has Walker gotten nash any extra shots?

Ummmmm Ok · 11-20-2003, 10:54 PM

I saw this in another thread so I wanted to hear what people thought. I would rather just get rid of the controversy with Antwan/Antoine. Get a guy that can really be a backup and a James isn't the answer we need at Center, but he is another body that Can play center.

Quote:

The Pacers are still searching for help in the backcourt. Pacers president Donnie Walsh tried to pry Barry away from the Sonics this summer. The Pacers still have a logjam at forward. With Jonathan Bender coming back any day and the Pacers promising to get him consistent minutes, a Barry-for-Al Harrington swap makes a lot of sense for both teams. Harrington is exactly the type of young, athletic low-post player the Sonics need.

Dallas trades:
SF Antawn Jamison (13.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 27.6 minutes)
Dallas receives:
C Jerome James (4.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.0 minutes)
PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.6 apg in 30.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +4.1 ppg, +1.0 rpg, and +0.5 apg.

Seattle trades:
SG Brent Barry (11.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 5.4 apg in 34.8 minutes)
C Jerome James (4.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.0 minutes)
Seattle receives:
SF Antawn Jamison (13.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 11 games)
Change in team outlook: -2.7 ppg, +0.7 rpg, and -4.3 apg.

Indiana trades:
PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.6 apg in 30.3 minutes)
Indiana receives:
SG Brent Barry (11.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 5.4 apg in 9 games)
Change in team outlook: -1.4 ppg, -1.7 rpg, and +3.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Dallas, Seattle, and Indiana being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Dallas, Seattle, and Indiana had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

FineCubanCigar · 11-21-2003, 10:50 AM

Finley should go before either of the other guys! I love Finley, and i respect him, and i remember the down years, but hey "even the mona lisa is falling apart." Even Emmit was cut, i just hope he finish out the year, and gets a ring with us before he goes.

Jamisonite · 11-21-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Ummmmm Ok
I saw this in another thread so I wanted to hear what people thought. I would rather just get rid of the controversy with Antwan/Antoine. Get a guy that can really be a backup and a James isn't the answer we need at Center, but he is another body that Can play center.

Quote:

The Pacers are still searching for help in the backcourt. Pacers president Donnie Walsh tried to pry Barry away from the Sonics this summer. The Pacers still have a logjam at forward. With Jonathan Bender coming back any day and the Pacers promising to get him consistent minutes, a Barry-for-Al Harrington swap makes a lot of sense for both teams. Harrington is exactly the type of young, athletic low-post player the Sonics need.

Dallas trades:
SF Antawn Jamison (13.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 27.6 minutes)
Dallas receives:
C Jerome James (4.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.0 minutes)
PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.6 apg in 30.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +4.1 ppg, +1.0 rpg, and +0.5 apg.

Seattle trades:
SG Brent Barry (11.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 5.4 apg in 34.8 minutes)
C Jerome James (4.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.0 minutes)
Seattle receives:
SF Antawn Jamison (13.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 11 games)
Change in team outlook: -2.7 ppg, +0.7 rpg, and -4.3 apg.

Indiana trades:
PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.6 apg in 30.3 minutes)
Indiana receives:
SG Brent Barry (11.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 5.4 apg in 9 games)
Change in team outlook: -1.4 ppg, -1.7 rpg, and +3.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Dallas, Seattle, and Indiana being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Dallas, Seattle, and Indiana had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Harrington has a lot of upside but hes still no Jamison. Jerome has is overpaid and isnt very good or hed be getting pt in Seattle. No way i take this deal.

sike · 11-21-2003, 12:41 PM

if we trade value(Walker\Jamison\Finley) we must recieve value in return..not just potential value....

if you trade one of these "big" guys away, you must receive a more than average big man in return...

kingrex · 11-21-2003, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: kingrex
Firstly, I'm on the side that doesn't want to trade anyone, yet. However, since this is a "gun to your head" thread where we must trade someone, then it depends on the question.

If the question is who on the Mavs would you be willing to trade, then I would say anyone is tradable if the offer is right.

If the question is who of the Big 5 would I give up first, if it meant that a good player would be had in return?

I would say Michael Finley. I love Fin, but with the emergence of Howard and with Delk on the bench, I think we have enough players to shore up the shooting guard position. Moreover, it would keep in tact the strong forward attackt that we have now with (Nowitzki, Walker & Jamison). Lastly, of the Big 5 he is the oldest (okay by one year) of the Big 5.

What? When did Howard emerge? When you talk trade Finley you come into the same problem when trading Jamison or Walker. Sure you can trade these guys but when doing so you hope it is to fix a need at the 5 position. Then you ask yourself out of the untouchables(Curry, Shaq, Ming) who is there left to trade for? You then have your Ostertag's, Bradley's, Jerome Jame's and at the end of the day you realize there aren't any impact guys out there who teams would trade. Ben Wallace is the perfect guy when it comes to what the Mavs need. So then you say what if we can package Fin and Jamison/or Walker to get him. THat Piston's team is ran by Larry Brown. A defensive minded coach. He isn't going to take guys like Jamison, Fin, or Walker who aren't known for defending. Right now, the only guy I want to hear in a trade is for Ben Wallace and he is a untouchable. There are some guys you can get who the Mavs can benefit from but then you go from the talent of Fin, Walker, and Jamison to the Tony Delk's and Najera's. Those guys aare going to give you the same talent in return then you would for one of our Big 5 with the exception of Dirk.

I take your point, but this thread is not about who can we package and who can we get back. It is a simple question, and I'm curious who would you choose and why.

The question is, FilthyFin, if you had to choose 1 guy of the big 5, who would you choose and why?

I answered Finley. Who do you say?