$400.00 per child Tax-relief Checks are in the Mail- Bush screws the working poor!!!!

[Chiwas]

But the point is, those street-corner workers are taking without giving (from and to the government). I'm all for them getting out there and getting some work done. I'm all for them making as much money as they can, and sending money back to mexico to be spent there. I would just like for them to contribute whatever they can to the tax situation here. They are taking from this government (the US citizenry) but not giving back.

They give back in the very same place, faster than regular citizens, when you pay them $6-8 an hour instead of $14 or more.

[reeds]

Very Classy post MADAPE- I would be proud.. Of course I am being sarcastic, but I actually believe you probably are proud considering the source. I mean...ummm...forget it, i wont stoop to your petty remarks on a message board of all things....

[Murphy3]

the fighting between the "liberals" and "conservatives" is sickening.

It's painfully obvious that most of you are incapable of seeing any other point of view other than the liberal and/or conservative views that have been beaten into your head. It gets to a point to where you don't even hear what is being said. All some of you know is that there's a fight between "liberals" and "conservatives" so you jump in to throw in your 2 cents. Unfortunately, too often, it's 2 cents that you don't have to spare

[Rhylan]

That might be the smartest thing you've said in 2 years.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[MFFL]

Thanks murph.

I was going to do a scathing retort to sturm und drang's remarks but you've made me realize that it is a waste of time. She's never going to see my point of view so why bother posting it.

Arguing politics on an internet board is a waste of time.

[Smiles]

edit: maybe this should be PM'd. i don't really want to scathe anyone publically. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[veruca salt]

Oh Murphy thank you, I was starting to think I was the only person who had noticed!

[Murphy3]

actually, i agree with sturm

the damn conservatives

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[MFFL]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
actually, i agree with sturm

the damn conservatives

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

The line I had a problem with was this one "You are sorely, sorely ignorant if you think that hard work and a desire to succeed is all it takes to make it off the streets."

I can guarantee you that I had as rough of a childhood as anyone and I didn't let it hold me back. Winners win, losers whine that life isn't fair.

[Chiwas]

The post by mattyd was very illuminating. It seems the very rich are getting more rich (this is my personal oppinion) while the rest are having less prerrogatives and money in time (mattyd's college case). This is neo-liberalism. And I thought it was happening only in the Third World.

The post by sturm was very good. I don't need to classify her in any political side, to find the humanitarianism, something that the politicians can't (and many don't want to) comprehend.

[madape]

I'm not anti-gay. I'm pro prositution. Prostitution is a legitimate way for the underpriveledged to lift themselves out of the ghetto. A non-discriminatory industry where everyone gets an equal shot. Besides, isn't it simply an arrangement between two consenting adults exchanging sex for money? A crime without a victim? If this were truly a free society, people would be able to decide where and how they make their income. But instead, the wicked conservative right has legislated morality. I say let's put an end to it! End the prohibition on prostitution. Take the power out of the hands of the thugs and pimps. Give it back to the honest hard working men and women who give their hearts, soles, and crotches to this industry. It's a a pro-labor anthem even Karl Marx and Hilary Clinton would be proud of!

You talk about tax programs that steal from the rich and give to the poor? Well, we can tax prostitution just as we do gasoline, cigarettes, and horse racing. If we funnel those funds into school and community programs for America's impoverished, we'd essentially institute a ghetto tax paid by those who live in the ghetto! People helping themselves! Isn't that the American way? Maybe the mafia was right all along.

Don't live off the dole. Bob on the pole.

Increase your stash. Trade @ss for cash.

[southern_sweets]

Originally posted by: madape
I'm not anti-gay. I'm pro prositution. Prostitution is a legitimate way for the underpriveledged to lift themselves out of the ghetto. A non-discriminatory industry where everyone gets an equal shot. Besides, isn't it simply an arrangement between two consenting adults exchanging sex for money? A crime without a victim? If this were truly a free society, people would be able to decide where and how they make their income. But instead, the wicked conservative right has legislated morality. I say let's put an end to it! End the prohibition on prostitution. Take the power out of the hands of the thugs and pimps. Give it back to the honest hard working men and women who give their hearts, soles, and crotches to this industry. It's a a pro-labor anthem even Karl Marx and Hilary Clinton would be proud of!

You talk about tax programs that steal from the rich and give to the poor? Well, we can tax prostitution just as we do gasoline, cigarettes, and horse racing. If we funnel those funds into school and community programs for America's impoverished...

Already done! Income earned from prostitution and other illegal activities is fully taxable. Many a career criminal has gone down due to tax evasion (Al Capone for example). The initial investigation into Heidi Fleiss was for non payment of income tax.

So, if anyone wants to pursue prostitution as a career choice remember you are more likely to avoid costly and career limiting legal problems if you pay tax on the income your earn.



Note: This post does not necessarily represent a viewpoint of pro or anti prostitution. Any reference to a political viewpoint, either liberal or conservative, is purely coincidental.

[Chiwas]

A crime without a victim?

The victim is the society.

However, nobody in milleniums has controled -eliminated- prostitution.

But, hardly they -who prostitute- abandoned it, along the ghettos, IMO. I think a poor with some education is more able to abandon them, than a -relatively- rich prostitute.

[madape]

I must be doing something right. In back-to-back posts it has been implied that I am both a gay man and a gay basher.

I won't ridicule anyone for being offended by my choice of words/arguments. Everyone is entitled to their own sensitivities, I suppose. But I will say that there is far too much whining and crying going on in this forum... whether it be by numbskulls who aren't getting the government handout they think they deserve, or by well meaning people who feel obligated to take up the fight for people who aren't in a fight to begin with. A ghetto prostitute is just about low as one can get in this society. And it's a damn shame that you can't call someone a gay ghetto whore without someone calling you a homophobe, bigot or some other PC catchphrase in return. The last time I checked, no actual ghetto whore has ever lodged a descriminatory complaint against me or anyone else. So can we please stop defending them?

What IS insulting i (and I speak from experience here) is when people come out of the woodwork, twist your words, and lay some blanket statement down about your attitude towards gays and minorities after you utter one harmless little insult to some stupid left-wing twit. I don't know what is more reactionary and over-the-top: my insult towards reeds - a statement fully intended to be shocking and appalling; or Sturm's wild accusation of my hatred of all things ethnic - a statement she attempts to pass off as rational argument. If you ask me, Sturm and Reed's comments on this thread greatly examplify what is wrong with contemporary American social thought. Too few Americans actually seem willing to take responsibility for has gone wrong with their lives. It's always someone else's fault - the president who ignores the poor, the biggot who hates the gays, the pharmaceudical companies who charge too much for medicine, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Call me elitist, call me whatever you want. But I fully believe that the minute you stop pointing the finger at everyone else around you and start pointing it at yourself is the minute you actually get off your ass and make something of yourself. That's the American way, not this whiney, politically correct, bullcrap.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: madape
Call me elitist, call me whatever you want. But I fully believe that the minute you stop pointing the finger at everyone else around you and start pointing it at yourself is the minute you actually get off your ass and make something of yourself. That's the American way, not this whiney, politically correct, bullcrap

I think that is one of the most true(non basketball related) statements I have read since coming to this board. Kudos.

[Rhylan]

This thread is gay.

[Rhylan]

Sorry, I just couldn't resist that [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[AnMan21]

AMEN Madape!

[signoftimes]

AMEN Sturm!

Edit: I need a new avatar

[madape]

For the love of ... @&^@$

I shouldn't feel the need to defend myself on this.. But I really feel I've been unjustly attacked here. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GAYS. AT ALL! I have friends who are gay. I have family members who are gay. It really doesn't bother me. I'm not gay. I don't really understand why some people become gay. Sometimes I joke about them...but sometimes they joke about straight people. I've spent my whole life around gays and never in my life been accused of being a homophobe before today... and I don't think my one statement about Reeds being pinned up against a trash can is enough to comdemn me.

Sturm, as you know, I am a pretty conservative guy in general, but you'd probably be suprised that I do actually NOT agree with the far right on this issue. I am not opposed to gay marriage. And while I don't think gays should be given the same protection as other REAL minorities, they shouldn't be treated any differently than any other person. They SHOULD be given the freedom to practice any sexual act they please, just as straight people should. And as long as we are forced to have anti-discrimination legislation - gays SHOULD be protected as well. Homosexuals have the right, as does everyone else in this society, to be treated fairly...and the US government has the responsibilty to protect their right to be treated fairly. The truth is Surm, that if you took the time to notice, you just might find that my political views on this matter don't stray too far from your own. You have stated that you think I'm dispicable and out of line, but I think you are REALLY out of line. You are making a strong accusation, a hurtful one, and a false one. It is one thing to jokingly call someone a gay ghetto whore. It is another thing alltogether to label someone a racist or a homophobe.

[sturm und drang]

First of all, madape, I never once accused or even insinuated that you hate all things "ethnic". That, my friend, is wild fabrication. I do think, however, that you're a homophobe. And that, to me, is just as despicable as being racist.

I take it as a compliment that you single me out as an example of what is wrong with America. I truly do. Thank you.

What I don't understand is how you can make wild, unsubstantiated claims that I take no accountability for my life. By that measure, wouldn't I be unemployed, living off welfare? Or on unemployment? No, sir. I am a fully-functioning member of society who pays more than 30% of my income in taxes. I work hard and never fault anyone but myself for my failures. What I do have-- and what you are sorely lacking-- is any sense of compassion. I recognize that by birthright I was given an incredible advantage, and I think it is my responsibility-- having reaped the rewards of such privelege and my own hard work-- to give back and help those who were not so lucky.

I have the utmost respect for those, like MFFL, who pulled themselves up out of disadvantage and have succeeded. But I also volunteer at a non-profit that helps the homeless secure temporary housing so they can get jobs, and I see some people whose situation from birth is so dire that they need goverment assistance to do so. And if that goverment assistance comes from my pocket, all the better. Good. That's how it should be. I'm all for people accepting accountability for their actions; I'm also all for people accepting that we are charged with helping others who may not be as fortunate.

Compassion. God forbid.

[veruca salt]

Well if you're going to show such disrespect for others DrBio, how dare you ask them to abide by your rules?
Since you made your original post about the language on this board, i've actually gone out of my way to watch what
i say, as to not mess with the harmony that this board once had, but it seems you and others have absolutely
no intention of doing this for others.

[Drbio]

veruca- with all due respect, gay and f*ck are hardly equitable. I've said a million times, a well placed damn or hell is hardly offensive to me, but the use of the f-bomb is very much so. In addition, there are numerous young postser here who shouldn't have to see that crap, not to mention ANY poster.

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: Drbio
veruca- with all due respect, gay and f*ck are hardly equitable. I've said a million times, a well placed damn or hell is hardly offensive to me, but the use of the f-bomb is very much so. In addition, there are numerous young postser here who shouldn't have to see that crap, not to mention ANY poster.

I've noticed, however, that some posters find it objectionable to use the word "God" in conjunction with any profanity or vulgarity. While I myself don't give a good gosh-darned about such language, and while I know that my use of such language doesn't mean I'm an aetheist, I have made a conscious effort not to use that specific term, out of respect for people who might be offended.

While I can understand that use of terms like "fag" or "homo" doesn't necessarily make the user a "homophobe" or a "gay-basher", I can likewise appreciate another person's discomfort with the notion that a despective term associated with sexual identity be used as an insult, and that impressionable young posters might be led to think that ít's okay to use those terms as insults--as if they were legitimate notions with which to insult someone, or notions of which to be ashamed.

[Drbio]

kiki- I happen to agree, but I am seeing some posters here piss and whine about a poster or two having used a word they found offensive once or twice and instead of asking them politely to not use it they immediately ripped on the other poster. I used myself as an example so as not to point out other folks. It's rediculous to rip on someone for a very limited use of a word that has a legitimate meaning. Some people need thicker skin. My request to stop the f-word was not as much me being offended as it was to clean up the board a bit. The use of the f-word is hardly the same as throwing out the word gay in coorect english context.

[veruca salt]

I've noticed, however, that some posters find it objectionable to use the word "God" in conjunction with any profanity or vulgarity. While I myself don't give a good gosh-darned about such language, and while I know that my use of such language doesn't mean I'm an aetheist, I have made a conscious effort not to use that specific term, out of respect for people who might be offended.

Exactly. It's a matter of respect, and I just think the way you (Doc) responded to Sturms post was totally
disrespectful. Just as if someone had totally disregarded your post about language/blasphemy, after you had shown
that it was obviously an issue that was important to you, would've been disrespectful.
The reality is we can all say what we want on here, but some choose to censor themselves for the sake of the board,
I guess others don't....

[Drbio]

If you feel it was disrespectful...fine. Your opinion. We don't share it however. But, we don't have to.





There is plenty of disrespect in this thread. Some folks should not throw stones.

[veruca salt]

The use of the f-word is hardly the same as throwing out the word gay in coorect english context.

I don't think anyone really has a problem with it being used in it's correct context Doc, it's the notion
that people think it's ok to use it as an insult that is the issue here.

[veruca salt]

but you asked people to stop using the F word because you found it offensive.
Sturm & I are now pointing out something that we find it to be offensive.
Tell me Doc, is it only what you find offensive that's important?
I don't find f*** to be offensive, but when you made a post pointing out that you
thought it was inappropriate for such a board, I stopped using it. You were right,
there were other people who might find it offensive, they shouldn't have to read it. So i stopped,
for you sake, for their sake.
It's just common courtesy.

[Drbio]

I think you realize that I do not post gay or fag or homo or whatever but maybe once or twice and only as a poor choice of words at best. No intent to be offensive at all. The difference is that the f-word is offensive period. There is no manner of use of the f-word that is appropriate. Saying something is gay is hardly demaening to homosexuals. Saying something is queer is hardly demeaning to homosexuals. The meaning of those words means odd, not normal, etc.

If a casual slip bothers you to the point of ripping on someone like they say it all of time, then it is not my problem because I do not and I am pretty sure you know that. When I saw the inordinate amount of f-bombs being used and saw they were in basically every other post and increasing I said something about it. I make no apologies for doing so.

[veruca salt]

[veruca salt]

It's more so about the attitude now i think. I don't think that someone should get 'ripped' for saying "oh my god"
but you've gone out of your way on occasions to do so, and that's fine, I can live with that. As I said, it's common courtesy.

[Drbio]

That is not true. Find me one even one instance where I ripped on someone for saying "oh my god". common courtesy involves the truth.

[Drbio]

double post....

[veruca salt]

notice how i used 'ripped' i don't even know what you mean by that word, but you keep using it.
I just assumed it meant that someone said that they found the use of something offensive, which is what sturm did.
you've done the same with blasphemy....and I don't need to find you the posts you know you requested that people
not use blasphemy.

[Drbio]

Just get the facts right. I have indeed asked folks not to use God in profanity and it goes back to the original point....it was to clean up the board. This board was riddled with harsh profanity during that time. Like the f-word, there is no use of that combination that is socially acceptable. It is universally accepted as profanity. The word "gay" is hardly the same.


If you are offended by the phrase "That is gay" when someone is pointing out something is weird, odd etc that is one thing. I hardly see where it is offensive to gay people because it is not IMHO. BUT, it hardly equates to profanity. And the intent issue is completely and conveniently being overlooked to further an agenda.

[MFFL]

I wish someone would change the name of this thread to "random sniping"

[Drbio]

or petty griping

[veruca salt]

Originally posted by: Drbio
or petty griping

how about "cliques-R-us"?

[veruca salt]

If you are offended by the phrase "That is gay" when someone is pointing out something is weird, odd etc that is one thing. I hardly see where it is offensive to gay people because it is not IMHO. BUT, it hardly equates to profanity. And the intent issue is completely and conveniently being overlooked to further an agenda.

When or where has gay EVER meant weird or odd??

Look i'm over it, say whatever you want, just don't get offended when others say whatever they want.