Dallas-Denver talks heating up...LaFrentz and Van Excel to Dallas? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MavsFanFinley · 02-21-2002, 03:11 PM

This was just posted on the Dallas Morning News site:

Sources: Mavs-Nuggets trade talk heats up
Howard, LaFrentz headline potential deal

02/21/2002

By JODIE VALADE / The Dallas Morning News

Trade talks between the Mavericks and Denver Nuggets have escalated just hours before Thursday's 5 p.m. trade deadline, league sources said, to the point that the teams are seriously considering a blockbuster deal swapping major players: Denver's Nick Van Exel and Raef LaFrentz and the Mavericks' Juwan Howard.

If an agreement is reached, the Mavericks would land the coveted LaFrentz and disgruntled Van Exel as centerpieces. The deal also would include swingman Tariq Abdul-Wahad and point guard Avery Johnson.

Dallas would surrender Howard and his $18.75 million salary for this season along with Tim Hardaway and role players who could include Donnell Harvey or Greg Buckner.

Denver's desire to deal Van Exel, who has requested a trade, is at the heart of the talks. Van Exel also could be the trade's downfall. The Nuggets also are considering a simpler swap of Van Exel for Minnesota's Terrell Brandon.

The deal with the Mavericks would allow Denver to unload several hefty contracts and position them for a run at one of the big-name free-agent candidates in 2003, which include Jason Kidd and Tim Duncan.

The Mavericks' acquisition of LaFrentz and his smooth offensive abilities as a 6-11 forward would require the team to take on several other contracts - including Van Exel's. Denver has stipulated that any team asking for LaFrentz also would have to take the point guard.

Additionally, Abdul-Wahad has a $43 million contract that runs until 2007 - a contract that is regarded as highly overvalued for a player with a career average of 8.1 points.

Both sides have trepidation due to the disruptive factors of the trade. Van Exel has a turbulent history, including a tenuous relationship with Mavericks assistant coach Del Harris when both were with the LA Lakers. The Mavericks would have to surrender their only low-post offensive threat, Howard, and the team's veteran and vocal leader, Hardaway.

But LaFrentz, who averages 14.9 points, 5.1 rebounds and 3 blocks, would provide another potent offensive threat for the Mavericks and make for a talented frontcourt when combined with Dirk Nowitzki. A starting lineup of Steve Nash, Van Exel, Michael Finley, Nowitzki and LaFrentz would combine some of the league's top scorers.

Denver, meanwhile, would begin another rebuilding process with the trade. The deal also would be the first for Denver general manager Kiki Vandeweghe, the Mavericks' player development coach last season. Vandeweghe has a close relationship with Mavericks owner Mark Cuban and was a fan of Harvey and Buckner when he worked with the Mavericks.

Drbio · 02-21-2002, 03:14 PM

Do the salaries work? I would love to see LaFrentz in Dallas. That would be huge!

Doc

MavKikiNYC · 02-21-2002, 03:22 PM

This sorta feels like going back to Laettner.....

Drbio · 02-21-2002, 03:25 PM

You're comparing LaFentz to Laettner? Wow.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

Doc

madape · 02-21-2002, 03:25 PM

Hell yeah! LaFrenz is definitely a Nellie type of guy. He'll fit in so much better than Howard its ridiculous. Van Exel is a big upgrade talent wise over Hardaway, and we don't have to give up Bradley (ok so many of you might think this is a bad thing). I'm not going to cry over Harvey, Buckner or Howard either. I love this trade. I hope it goes down.

LonestarROB · 02-21-2002, 03:27 PM

***crosses figers***

MavsFanFinley · 02-21-2002, 03:27 PM

I'd love to get LaFrentz here, but I don't understand the Van Excel angle.

I think he's an upgrade over Hardaway, but his attitude is definitely something to keep in mind. Furthermore, why would Denver want Hardaway? Just to get them through this year and next while working on rebuilding?

Do we really need Van Excel, Avery Johnson and Charlie Bell behind Nash? I have to believe that a 3rd team is going to be involved and that's where Van Excel ends up. Im not sure Avery Johnson is the answer or that big of an upgrade over Hardaway but I don't remember him jacking up 3's.

Wahad is a decent addition but his contract is horrific if I remember correctly.

If the deal did go through, I know I wouldn't miss Howard with LaFrentz here and Hardaway or Harvey (maybe a little but he doesn't play anway) is not that much to give up. Even if we through in Buckner.

Something to keep our eye on.

Blonde Bomber · 02-21-2002, 03:28 PM

I jump on this trade in a heartbeat!!!!

Rhylan · 02-21-2002, 03:29 PM

<< Hell yeah! LaFrenz is definitely a Nellie type of guy. He'll fit in so much better than Howard its ridiculous. Van Exel is a big upgrade talent wise over Hardaway, and we don't have to give up Bradley (ok so many of you might think this is a bad thing). I'm not going to cry over Harvey, Buckner or Howard either. I love this trade. I hope it goes down. >>

I don't know about Van Exel. He's so talented, yes, but it just doesn't seem like he'll be effective here. Coming off the bench, no less. Not to mention we'd still have a tiny backcourt. I'd much rather see him go to NY in the three-way Adornato came up with over on LMF, with Dallas getting Shandon Anderson and Ward.

But, for LaFrentz, it might be worth it. I don't know. I'd hate to see Hardaway go, even though he shoots 2-10 every game.

MavKikiNYC · 02-21-2002, 03:29 PM

Acquiring VanExel also works pre-emtpively to keep him out of a T'Wolves uni....

and the talk was NVE for Terrell Brandon otherwise.

Drbio · 02-21-2002, 03:32 PM

If I'm Nellie and this really is being offered...I am wondering why LaFrentz isn't on Cubans plane for tonights game! Go MAVS!

Doc

madape · 02-21-2002, 03:32 PM

Avery Johnson isn't the replacement for Hardaway, VanExel is... and Nick's a much better player. Johnson will be the third point guard the Mavs have been looking for all season long. If this deal is done, Bell is SO fired. I'd like to give them Buckner, because Wahad could fill his spot in the rotation pretty nicely. oooooo!!! I think I peed my pants!

MavsFanFinley · 02-21-2002, 03:36 PM

Now that I thought about it further, I think your right Madape about Van Excel being the replacement of Hardaway and Johnson being the 3rd option. Bell would be gone.

I just have a hard time believing that Van Excel would want to come off the bench and be happy here. It's certainly a HUGE step up from Denver, but will he be satisfied with that? He would be able to handle more minutes behind Nash than Hardaway though, so it's not like he'd only get 15 minutes a game. His attitude is what concerns me most.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-21-2002, 03:39 PM

holy crap this is nice...

man, we could start nash, van exel, fin, dirk, and lafrentz...

and nick the quick, although his attitude sucks, has hit his fair share of big shots. i'd rtaher have him shooting than timmy. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

LonestarROB · 02-21-2002, 03:39 PM

<< I just have a hard time believing that Van Excel would want to come off the bench and be happy here. . >>

He wouldn't be coming off the bench. Starting lineup would probably be.

Nash
Nick Van Exel
Finley
Dirk
Raef

Big Boy Laroux · 02-21-2002, 03:40 PM

ha ha beat ya to it, rob!

Drbio · 02-21-2002, 03:40 PM

The attitude is a risk, but great trades involve risk. Bring him here!

Doc

LonestarROB · 02-21-2002, 03:41 PM

<< ha ha beat ya to it, rob! >>

by a millasecond [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

madape · 02-21-2002, 03:42 PM

winning tends to help people get over their grumpiness.

Drbio · 02-21-2002, 03:44 PM

madape - so if the Mavs win it all you will have to change your icon then? niceape just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Doc

mick · 02-21-2002, 03:44 PM

I'm willing to chip for fuel for jet to get them all moved in th enext two hours!!! Any body else willing to chip in?

Denver i sobvioulsy looking to do a complete overhaul and go into FA in 2003 heavily.

If we do this, I could care less about the so-called Duncan plan.

This trade would make Mavs a MAJOR force this year.
PG: Nash
SG: Nick the quick
SF: Finley
PF: Dirk
C: Raef

Bench/IR: Wang, Double E, Bradley, Tarig, Newman, Manning, Najera, Griffin, Bell?

Big Boy Laroux · 02-21-2002, 03:45 PM

hell we wouldn't need to have a PG and SG. screw the positions. we'll just have 2 guards. well, 3 if you count fin.

people talk about 2-headed centers... what about a two-headed PG? nash or van exel coming right at ya.

and you know, it's not like any of these guys are trying for the all-star team anymore... i like this deal a lot.

Drbio · 02-21-2002, 03:45 PM

Mick:

If that goes down, Bell would be out of here. I'd give a few bucks myself to run that jet!

Doc

MavsFanFinley · 02-21-2002, 03:47 PM

<< He wouldn't be coming off the bench. Starting lineup would probably be.

Nash
Nick Van Exel
Finley
Dirk
Raef >>

OMG, what a lineup! LOL [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Hmm...Dallas really wants a big man up front, but I wonder if they pull the trigger. Instead of Wahad, I wish we could get James Posey instead.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-21-2002, 03:47 PM

i'd love posey instead, but i doubt denver would do that. they want to unload wahad's salary.

and posey is young. someone to build around along with mcdyess.

i hate to see harvey go, but for that lineup! damn!

Drbio · 02-21-2002, 03:48 PM

Posey would be nice, but I imagine Denver would insist on Wahad. Has anyone checked the salraies on these proposals? My head is spinning.

Doc

Drbio · 02-21-2002, 03:48 PM

Big Boy gets another millisecond post victory....grrrr

Doc

Big Boy Laroux · 02-21-2002, 03:49 PM

quick fingers. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

this trade has me mucho excited. hope it goes down!

MavKikiNYC · 02-21-2002, 03:51 PM

RealGM crahsed and burned as of 10:00AM Eastern.

Drbio · 02-21-2002, 03:52 PM

The deadlines is 4pm our time (Texas) isn't it?

Doc

foglemann · 02-21-2002, 03:54 PM

Yeah, this would increase our chances big time this year and would give us good trading material for the offseason and years to come. We would probably play LaFrenz at the center, Dirk at his natural pf position, we would have to put Finley at the sf, but maybe he will get the idea to post up more and drive, and VanExel would be the perfect fit here because of his ballhandling skills at the two guard, making for a backcourt with extremely hard cutting and firing out shots with Nash and the point. This team would be very good, how good on defense is the question, but LaFrenz is a huge step up. We could even go real big with Esch, Bradley, Wang, Dirk, and VanExel running it all. That would be almost four seven footers on the floor with three people still shooting a high percentage from three point land. This would probably put us in more contendion than ever before, but the problem would also be, who would shoot. With Nellie's type of offense, everyone would be the first option. It would definitly not be Dirk's team if this trade happens as a lot of us want it to his team. We will just have to see, but the deadline is getting close, hopefully something will happen.

mick · 02-21-2002, 03:54 PM

MFF,

Posey would be great, but I think the only reason we could get this deal done for so little from us (in terms of talent) is that we take all thier big salaries.

foglemann · 02-21-2002, 03:55 PM

sory, didn't mean to post twice.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-21-2002, 03:55 PM

i think this would still be dirk's team, but it's not like anyone on the mavs has anything to play before besides wins. no one on our team will be MVP this year, the all-star game has already passed, so now we can suck it up and BALL!

Drbio · 02-21-2002, 03:58 PM

There is either 2 minutes left before deadline or one hour and 2 minutes. Anyone know? I keep hitting refresh on nba.com and other to see if anything is going down. Someone pointed out in another thread that the league office wasn't happy last year with the last minute Mavs trade. I hope we make them wait again this year.

Doc

Big Boy Laroux · 02-21-2002, 03:59 PM

i think that 5 PM eastern is the deadline.

mick · 02-21-2002, 04:01 PM

Deadline is 4:00 PM Mavs time this year. The proposed deadline change goes into effect next year.

LonestarROB · 02-21-2002, 04:02 PM

BBL's right but the trade doesn't have to be announced before the deadline though.

Drbio · 02-21-2002, 04:02 PM

BBL- Thanks, I was thinking the same thing but started to argue with myself. The problem is I started arguing right back.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

Doc

MavsFanFinley · 02-21-2002, 04:04 PM

Yeah, I figured Posey wouldn't be included and that the only reason this trade gets done is cause of salaries that we would be taking back.

A girl can dream though. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I was thinking the same thing about the matchups Nelson could play with. Just think of a front court of Bradley (or EE or Wang) at the 5, Dirk at the 3 and LaFrentz at the 4 with Nash and Finley in the backcourt.

And to think you have guys like Griffin and Najera to still come off the bench is amazing.