Tracking the Fantasy Five

[grndmstr_c]

Coming off these last couple games in which we've seen the Fantasy Five lineup come into the game in the third quarter and turn a competitive matchup into a laugher, I thought it might be nice to track the statistics of this lineup through the season to see if they can continue to live up to the ridiculously high standard they've already set for themsleves. For those that are interested, all the stats I'm posting come from 82games.com.

Min - 8.42%
Off - 130.6
Def - 78.9
Net - 51.7
W - 9
L - 1
Win% - 90.0
eFG - .600
eFGA - .353
FTA - +3.4
Close - 36%
dClose - 32%
Reb - 47.5%
T/O - +6%


Here's a key:
Min - percentage of minutes played
Off - points scored per 48 minutes
Def - points allowed per 48 minutes
Net - scoring differential per 48 minutes
W - number of games in which the lineup has outscored the opposition while on the floor
L - number of games in which the lineup has been outscored
Win% - self explanatory
eFG - effective field goal percentage for the unit
eFGA - effective field goal percentage allowed by the unit
FTA - free throws attempted differential per 48 minutes
Close - percentage of shots taken in close
dClose - percentage of shots taken in close by opponents
Reb - (offensive rebounding% plus defensive rebounding%) divided by 2
T/O - net turnover percentage (+ numbers are good)

edited - rebounding stat and definition

[Joey]

Maybe I am slow, but I don't get it. Can you explain this to me?

[grndmstr_c]

In essence, these statistics represent how the Mavericks perform when they have their Fantasy Five lineup out on the floor(Nash, Fin, AJ, AW, and Dirk). Think of it as the same types of statistics you'd get if you looked at ESPN.com's per game team statistics, but with the focus put on how this particular lineup does when and only when they are all out on the court together. Kind of a cool way of looking at which player combinations (rather than just players) are helping or hurting your team. Not sure if this helps, I'm being a little general I know. If you have any other specific questions about what the stats mean feel free to ask.

[Joey]

Thanks, that helped out a lot. I was confused as to how the 5 players averaged 8% of the minutes but scored 130 pts a game. But now I understand. Cool point of view. And thanks for the website.

[Tarzan]

According to those stats, the Fantasy Five is incredibly dominant offensively and defensively. Grabbing 95% of the rebounds is insanely good. It is hard to read too much into stats this early in the season. It will be fun to watch how these stats evolve as the season progresses.

A question these stats raise is, why is this lineup only used 8.42% of the time?

[Mavs Rule]

WOW GMC, those numbers are staggering. I wonder if they are the best lineup in the league, let alone just our team? I wonder how they compare to the Lakers best lineup? Thanks for keeping us informed GMC.

[grndmstr_c]

I should clarify the rebounding stat, because I don't think I phrased the description any better than 82games did, and they phrased it relatively poorly ("rebound percentage for the unit, based on chances"). The issue is that there are some lineups for which the Reb stat is over 100%, so i'm thinking that 95% actually means they're getting beaten on the boards. I'll try to drop an email to them to find out what they actually mean. Bottom line, though, is that if I'm understanding things correctly, rebounding is the only area this unit isn't wooping up on their opponents.

[bernardos70]

I am at a loss of words..... those numbers just make me cry tears of joy[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] I can't quite recall the situations in which the lineup was used, but I don't think it could possibly have been during non-meaningful minutes. Which leads me to believe this lineup is absolutely nighmarish for opponents, on both ends of the court. I'll just have to watch this lineup more, besides, it's so early in the season. It'll definitely be fun to see how it progresses. 60% FG shooting while they're in, while keeping the other team to 35%? Wow....

[grndmstr_c]

Okay, just got clarification from 82games on the Reb stat. It's offensive rebounding% plus defensive rebounding%. It actually makes more sense if you divide it by two. I'll edit the first post to include that definition, and just for kicks I think I'll do the division to make it more clear. Sorry for the confusion everyone.

[kingrex]

Can there be a better name than "Fantasy Five"? I know that's not the point of the thread (good thread by the way), but I've heard "Fab 5", "Fantastic 5" & of course the "Big 5".

I just think there's got to be a better name for them.

Oh well, I guess I'll just have to deal.

[bernardos70]

Wouldn't all 5 players be good fantasy basketball players? I don't play, but I think they would, they rack up a lot of numbers, like scoring, rebounding, assists. So I like "fantasy five"

[bernardos70]

Originally posted by: Mavs Rule
WOW GMC, those numbers are staggering. I wonder if they are the best lineup in the league, let alone just our team? I wonder how they compare to the Lakers best lineup? Thanks for keeping us informed GMC.

Here you go: http://www.82games.com/comm6.htm

[ReDIRKulous]

Amazing stats! Thanks for posting them.

[Mavs Rule]

Thank you Bernardos, I thought GMC might know that off the top of his head. I guess not. Our Big Five is THE BEST LINEUP in the entire league. The second best is from the Lakers, but one that doesn't include Kobe. They are Payton Fisher George Malone Shaq. Surprising indeed.

[Mavs Rule]

I found something else very interesting. The Big Five is only the third most used unit on the team. What is up with that Nellie? This all comes back to not starting Jamison, which I feel is a mistake. Maybe he will start him once we start heading towards the playoffs, so that we can build momentum. I bet Jamison secretly wouldn't be too happy with not starting for most of the season, but as always, would keep it to himself.

[grndmstr_c]

Mavs Rule, sorry, totally forgot about your question. I've actually found a couple other lineups with a better net. The Warriors, Rockets, Knicks, and Clippers all have one, for example. The difference is in the number of minutes played (their lineups have played only 1-3% of the minutes, which means the measure is less reliable). If we limit the search to lineups that have appeared in at least 8% of the minutes (as with ours), the next best net is only 27.4 (Detroit)

[Mavs Rule]

No problem GMC. Here are the stats for the Top Performing Five-Man Floor Units (as of 11/25, minimum 5% of team minutes):

# Team Unit Min Off Def Net48 W L W%
1 DAL Nash-Finley-Jamison-Walker-Nowitzki 8.42% 130.6 78.9 +52 9 1 90 %
2 LAL Payton-Fisher-George-Malone-O'Neal 5.74% 122.2 80.2 +42 7 2 77 %
3 SEA Murray-Barry-Lewis-Radmanovic-James 5.72% 122.2 94.2 +28 4 1 80 %
4 MIN Cassell-Hassell-Sprewell-Garnett-Olowokandi 5.10% 113.2 85.3 +28 5 2 71 %
5 DET Billups-Hamilton-Prince-Williamson-Wallace 8.03% 102.1 74.7 +27 6 2 75 %
6 DET Billups-Hamilton-Prince-Okur-Wallace 11.95% 102.6 75.9 +27 10 2 83 %
7 MIL Jones-Mason-Kukoc-Thomas-Gadzuric 6.66% 92.0 66.0 +26 7 2 77 %
8 IND Johnson-Miller-Artest-O'Neal-Foster 5.08% 106.0 80.5 +25 6 1 85 %
9 IND Anderson-Miller-Artest-O'Neal-Foster 22.92% 96.6 73.0 +24 9 2 81 %
10 NYK Eisley-Houston-Van Horn-Thomas-Mutombo 6.30% 114.4 91.8 +23 3 1 75 %
11 PHO Marbury-Johnson-Marion-Stoudemire-White 13.77% 99.0 76.5 +23 4 2 66 %
12 BOS James-Pierce-Brown-Baker-Blount 11.84% 97.9 76.9 +21 5 3 62 %
13 WAS Arenas-Hughes-Hayes-Laettner-Brown 12.88% 105.2 85.2 +20 4 3 57 %
14 SEA Murray-Barry-Lewis-Evans-Radmanovic 7.07% 98.9 79.8 +19 5 4 55 %
15 NJN Kidd-Kittles-Jefferson-Scalabrine-Collins 6.33% 97.4 81.4 +16 1 0 100 %
16 TOR Palacio-Carter-Curry-WilliamsJ-Davis 5.25% 95.6 79.6 +16 3 3 50 %
17 IND Johnson-Artest-Harrington-O'Neal-Foster 5.28% 88.5 73.5 +15 7 3 70 %
18 SAC Bibby-Christie-Stojakovic-Miller-Divac 38.47% 111.2 96.8 +14 11 3 78 %
19 LAL Payton-Bryant-George-Malone-O'Neal 34.52% 106.6 92.4 +14 9 2 81 %
20 DAL Best-Finley-Jamison-Walker-Nowitzki 5.53% 94.3 80.1 +14 4 4 50 %
21 NJN Kidd-Kittles-Jefferson-Williams-Collins 12.04% 97.9 84.2 +14 4 3 57 %
22 PHO Marbury-Johnson-Jacobsen-Marion-Stoudemire 5.94% 114.7 101.6 +13 3 4 42 %
23 TOR Palacio-Carter-Curry-Bosh-Davis 6.73% 87.0 74.5 +12 6 2 75 %
24 UTA Arroyo-Stevenson-Harpring-Kirilenko-Ostertag 25.58% 100.5 88.6 +12 7 3 70 %
25 PHO Marbury-Johnson-Marion-Stoudemire-Williams 9.34% 102.8 91.2 +12 2 2 50 %

[ReDIRKulous]

How is it that people can still find a way to complain about Nellie even though he put together the best 5 man unit? lol

[sike]

[quote]
Originally posted by: Mavs Rule
I found something else very interesting. The Big Five is only the third most used unit on the team. q]

I'm with ReDirk, but you do think that the King of odd ball would have no problem putting such an odd line up on the floor all the time...oh well!

[mavsman]

Isn't it a little strange that our most effective two lineups get a combined playing-time of about 6 and a half minutes, when the two best Laker-lineups get 19 1/2 and Sacs best lineup gets 18 1/2? Or is this math biting it's own rear? But I don't think so, since even the Lakers and the Kings don't use their best lineups to pad their stats.

[harsh euro barge]

Originally posted by: mavsman
Isn't it a little strange that our most effective two lineups get a combined playing-time of about 6 and a half minutes, when the two best Laker-lineups get 19 1/2 and Sacs best lineup gets 18 1/2? Or is this math biting it's own rear? But I don't think so, since even the Lakers and the Kings don't use their best lineups to pad their stats.

It's because the Lakers and Kings are playing guys who play their natural position, unlike the Mavs...