Mavs at Denver Game Day Thread - Page 6 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sike · 11-29-2003, 01:08 PM

My fault with Nash is that he wasn't Nash at the end of hte 4th quarter last night.

FILTH, MY PROBLEM WITH NASH IS THAT OTHER THAN THE DIMES....HE HAS NOT BEEN THE ALL STAR PG WE SAW EMERGE LAST SEASON...THERE IS NO WAY HE IS GOING TO GET THE ALL STAR GAME THIS YEAR....NOT WHEN YOU GET OUT PLAYED BY A GUY NAMED BOIKINS....HE IS NOT TAKING THE SHOTS HE TOOK LAST YEAR AND MUCH OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE NEW GUYS, BUT SOME OF IT IS JUST TOO MUCH HESITANTSY.....COME ON BACK STEVE, WE MISS YOU!

dude1394 · 11-29-2003, 01:10 PM

Quote:

He could've done anything but shoot a hook when no one is on him. Just because he got more blocks than our small fowards and guards doesn't make that acceptable. One block for Shawn i'd say is unnacceptable especially with the Denver Nuggets driving to the hole at will.

Now you WERE watching the game weren't you?? Per my reccollection when bradley was in there the nuggets did NOT drive the ball to the hole at will. They started shooting those 3-ptrs from the right side.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-29-2003, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
I guess here is where I get ticked off. We have 4 all-stars (or potential I hear) on the team playing last night. But you are ragging on bradley like he really makes that much difference in 18 minutes??

Ok, if you want, but the guys who are the all-stars (at least to ME) are the guys who have to step up. It's like blaming najera for the loss. I don't understand it. I thought shawn COMPETED. And it looked like he competed more than jamison for example and finley in stretches.

But if you want to rag on the guy who is making what (about 4mill/year and is 8th on the bench) for the poor showing go ahead. I don't expect shawn to be that much of a difference maker.

Those all stars we have didn't show up either but i'm not going to give Bradley a get out of jail free card because he is hte 8th man on the bench and gets paid 4 mill a year. Shawn is a difference maker. Just like Najera he can completely change the flow of the game. They are just as important as those 4 other all stars on this team. Everyone has a role on this team and everyone must follow their role. I didn't see many players doing that last night.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-29-2003, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

He could've done anything but shoot a hook when no one is on him. Just because he got more blocks than our small fowards and guards doesn't make that acceptable. One block for Shawn i'd say is unnacceptable especially with the Denver Nuggets driving to the hole at will.

Now you WERE watching the game weren't you?? Per my reccollection when bradley was in there the nuggets did NOT drive the ball to the hole at will. They started shooting those 3-ptrs from the right side.

Yea I did watch it. I saw some guys named Chris Andersen, Carmelo Anthony and a guy named Francisco having his way in the paint. Even Andre and Voshon thought they could get some points in the paint.

dude1394 · 11-29-2003, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Those all stars we have didn't show up either but i'm not going to give Bradley a get out of jail free card because he is hte 8th man on the bench and gets paid 4 mill a year. Shawn is a difference maker. Just like Najera he can completely change the flow of the game. They are just as important as those 4 other all stars on this team. Everyone has a role on this team and everyone must follow their role. I didn't see many players doing that last night.

I believe we can agree on this one.
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Mavs Rule · 11-29-2003, 01:25 PM

Your expectations for Bradley and Najera are way too low. They have to contribute something off the bench or it puts too much pressure on our starters. Bradley easily could have had four to five rebounds if he moved his feet or could hold on to the ball. We needed rebounding in the worst way in the fourth quarter, and that's what we count on Shawn for. If he doesn't rebound or block decently, WTF is he out there for?

Nellie had to go with him last night because our other two centers were out. There should be no way that Bradley should have been tired out there, but he was. Even with the mile high thin air, the fact that the Nugs run hard, and the third game in four nights, Bradley still should be in good enough shape to handle 18 freaking minutes! NBA players have to be in shape, and he is not working hard enough at that.

dude1394 · 11-29-2003, 01:46 PM

So cut him. Put him on the inactive list. But for goodness sakes I really don't want to go all over again all of the anti-shawn junk. IMHO he competed and changed the complexion of the game when he was out there. I didn't see him lazing it around, but he was very tired.

I wish he would get in better shape, but until the mavs find someone else I don't see the issue in faulting him for his obvious shortcomings necessarily. Najera can't finish around the basket but he does other things. That's one of the reaons he and shawn will continue to be just role players. And if you expect the role players at the 8th/9th spot to bail you out you are nuts. It has to be the stars and the superstars.

Finlye, nash, jamison let the team down last night. Not najera/bradley.

Mavs Rule · 11-29-2003, 01:56 PM

I am not anti-Bradley. He has been a good role player for us for the season so far. Maybe he was due for an off game. I was just pointing out him as one of the factors in our loss last night, not critiquing him for the season! The only exception that I made was his not being in game shape. Overall, Bradley has a great contract as a good bench player that can change the face of a game defensively.

kg_veteran · 11-29-2003, 05:59 PM

Shawn didn't rebound well last night, but he did change the game. His presence inside was pivotal to getting back in the game, whether the statistician logged him with blocks or not. At least he had an impact, unlike Jamison, who just stood around watching.

Shawn should have grabbed that rebound that Anthony got at the end of the game, but at least he was just gassed. Jamison didn't have that excuse.

dude1394 · 11-29-2003, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Shawn didn't rebound well last night, but he did change the game. His presence inside was pivotal to getting back in the game, whether the statistician logged him with blocks or not. At least he had an impact, unlike Jamison, who just stood around watching.

Shawn should have grabbed that rebound that Anthony got at the end of the game, but at least he was just gassed. Jamison didn't have that excuse.

This is a real illustrative point KG. Shawn didn't block out carmelo and he makes a nice athletic play and gets the ball. Jamison had the same thing happening to him all night (ala 4 rebounds in 38 minutes) and we don't get nearly as worked up about it. It's shawns lot in life to be the biggest guy out there but the least atheletic. So every hook shot missed, every rebound NOT gotten and every block not made looks worse.

I'm glad he's a strong-willed person, I'm not sure I would put up with it.

kg_veteran · 11-29-2003, 06:36 PM

I'm not trying to make excuses for Shawn. I just think we should be getting more upset at the guy with 4 years left on his deal making the exact same salary as Dirk Nowitzki than we should be at the guy who's making a pretty respectable backup center salary.

One guy was supposed to be a stud coming in; the other guy, we've known for a while, is a backup center.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-29-2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
So cut him. Put him on the inactive list. But for goodness sakes I really don't want to go all over again all of the anti-shawn junk. IMHO he competed and changed the complexion of the game when he was out there. I didn't see him lazing it around, but he was very tired.

I wish he would get in better shape, but until the mavs find someone else I don't see the issue in faulting him for his obvious shortcomings necessarily. Najera can't finish around the basket but he does other things. That's one of the reaons he and shawn will continue to be just role players. And if you expect the role players at the 8th/9th spot to bail you out you are nuts. It has to be the stars and the superstars.

Finlye, nash, jamison let the team down last night. Not najera/bradley.

This TEAM let us down last night. That includes Bradley, Fin or whoever wears Dallas in front of their jersey.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-29-2003, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Shawn didn't rebound well last night, but he did change the game. His presence inside was pivotal to getting back in the game, whether the statistician logged him with blocks or not. At least he had an impact, unlike Jamison, who just stood around watching.

Shawn should have grabbed that rebound that Anthony got at the end of the game, but at least he was just gassed. Jamison didn't have that excuse.

This is a real illustrative point KG. Shawn didn't block out carmelo and he makes a nice athletic play and gets the ball. Jamison had the same thing happening to him all night (ala 4 rebounds in 38 minutes) and we don't get nearly as worked up about it. It's shawns lot in life to be the biggest guy out there but the least atheletic. So every hook shot missed, every rebound NOT gotten and every block not made looks worse.

I'm glad he's a strong-willed person, I'm not sure I would put up with it.

I'd take Shawn's beating and more if I could get paid 4 million dollars a year of guaranteed money.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-29-2003, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I'm not trying to make excuses for Shawn. I just think we should be getting more upset at the guy with 4 years left on his deal making the exact same salary as Dirk Nowitzki than we should be at the guy who's making a pretty respectable backup center salary.

One guy was supposed to be a stud coming in; the other guy, we've known for a while, is a backup center.

You have to be patient with Jamison. He is a guy who went from being the best player on his team being a 6th man. It's going to be hard on him regardless of how many minutes he is getting. Bradley knows his role and he didn't do it last night. He's an inconsistent player. One night he can be great for you and the next he won't be heard from. This season though he has been more consistent than inconsistent but still inconsistent. I expect more from Bradley than what he gave last night which was nothing.

grndmstr_c · 11-29-2003, 06:43 PM

I tend to agree with both you guys (Dude and KG). I definitely think Shawn has had better games, but I was really disappointed that AJ didn't make more of his first regular season start with us. We'll need more out of him tonight.

kg_veteran · 11-29-2003, 08:18 PM

FFM, Jamison is MORE inconsistent to this point than Shawn is.

Novice#41 · 11-29-2003, 09:07 PM

...

FilthyFinMavs · 11-29-2003, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
FFM, Jamison is MORE inconsistent to this point than Shawn is.

I don't know about more. Jamison has consistently done something each game this season whether it was scoring or rebounding.

Mavs Rule · 11-30-2003, 12:44 PM

From the Dallas Morning News:

Quote:

Bradley muff draws Nelson's ire

Shawn Bradley had the gaffe of the game Friday night in Denver when he allowed Nuggets' rookie Carmelo Anthony to outjump and outhustle him for a key rebound with 2:42 to play.

Anthony got the missed shot and a layup to put Denver ahead for good, 100-98.

"That's a rebound that he [Bradley] had to get," Don Nelson said. "You don't look to the referee or anything else. He had to get that rebound, and he didn't. In my humble opinion, that was the biggest play of the game.

"You're going to give up the corner 3-pointer sometimes when you play zone. I know people think those were the big plays. But they weren't, in my estimation."

dude1394 · 11-30-2003, 12:57 PM

This is illustrative of one thing I am not fond of nellie about. Many,many coaches do it however. They call out some poor shmuck role player instead of the guys who should be making it happen. I watched that play carefully and although it seems that shawn should have gotten it, carmelo made a pretty nice move to get the ball, very instinctual.

I don't know which coach said it but fatigue makes cowards of us all and there is no doubt shawn was very fatigued.

Has anyone gotten notice of him being sick. He looked absolutely awful last night. It looked like he was going to pass out after only about 8 minutes of play. Really bad.

Mavs Rule · 11-30-2003, 01:22 PM

Yes dude, I was wondering the same thing about Bradley. I was harping earlier in the thread about how out of shape he is, but maybe it isn't that at all. Maybe he is actually trying to play through some flu or something. If that is the case he should be commended since we would have no center at all without him, and only Najera to be a pretender there.

dude1394 · 11-30-2003, 01:49 PM

Shawn also seemed to get really winded in denver as well. Also nash looked pretty spent in one period last night as well, it seems when he does get tired he sort of begins to have the wheels come off a little bit.

LRB · 11-30-2003, 02:21 PM

I really don't think that Shawn is 100% healthy. He's not fully over his knee surgery and that is preventing him from getting into full basketball cardiovasular shape. Being sick on top of that can't help. Shawn needs to be played for short stretches only until he gets 100% healthy and back into top shape. I'm sure that we can all wish that Shawn would do a Michael Jordan and go off on opponents when he's less than 100% healthy, but all but the most obtuse fans have long ago figured out that Shawn is no Michael Jordan. And in Shawn's defense, I haven't seen any player with that level of ability in the last 25+ years of watching the NBA.

It comes down to knowing what we got and getting the maximum usage out of it.