Dirk and Damp getting in sync

[FilthyFinMavs]

Don't forget JJ was apart of that deal also.

[The Miles]

Hey, the good news is that we have BOTH of them, we have the rebounder that can block some shots and we have the shot blocker that can rebound.

Together they should form a very solid 48 minute center. If one falls off or gets hurt, we got Calvin Booth that can block some shots. And if all else fails we got a taller Najera in Mbenga, a guy that just runs around and provides all types of energy in stretches.

I like this a lot better than last year when we had an unmotivated Shawn Bradley and *gasp* Antoine Walker or Dirk Nowitzki trying to play center. A motivated Shawn Bradley for about 18-20 minutes a game behind Erick Dampier could get us a combined 15/15/5 a game from our center spot.

How nice would that be? (and I am hoping Bradley outplays Booth also, I just don't feel Booth is *better* than Shawn Bradley, at least not more effective)

[Mavs Maniac]

I know you guys all love Bradley, but I have a hard time seeing it. I've seen how everyone thinks it's some how Nellie's fault that Bradley isn't able to dominate, but PLEASE. If Bradley is so good, how come the general consensus around the NBA is that the Mavs have NEVER had a legit center. Hasn't Bradley been on our team for, what, seven years now? That's not on Nellie guys, sorry. The only reason he is effective at all is because he is 7'6"!! The only shot he affects are the jump shots from 15 feet and in. If anything, most teams get more aggressive at attacking the rack when he is in! I think most players in the NBA want to get that poster shot of them dunking over him.

[grndmstr_c]

I know you guys all love Bradley, but I have a hard time seeing it. I've seen how everyone thinks it's some how Nellie's fault that Bradley isn't able to dominate, but PLEASE. If Bradley is so good, how come the general consensus around the NBA is that the Mavs have NEVER had a legit center. Hasn't Bradley been on our team for, what, seven years now? That's not on Nellie guys, sorry. The only reason he is effective at all is because he is 7'6"!! The only shot he affects are the jump shots from 15 feet and in. If anything, most teams get more aggressive at attacking the rack when he is in! I think most players in the NBA want to get that poster shot of them dunking over him.

You're as right about this as you are about Finley.

[Mavs Maniac]

You're right grndmstr_c, Bradley is DOMINANT! That's why he's on his third team and has had a hard time holding a starting spot on everyone! Please don't try to argue that Shaq has been on three teams now too. He demanded those trades. It's a totally different situation.

[Mavs Maniac]

Hey MadApe, you may be right. I certainly hope not, but it may be true. But don't you think we ought to, at least give him a chance? I mean, he's never played on a team with the quality of players we have. Didn't he take his Miss. St. team to a Final Four?

[grndmstr_c]

You're right grndmstr_c, Bradley is DOMINANT! That's why he's on his third team and has had a hard time holding a starting spot on everyone! Please don't try to argue that Shaq has been on three teams now too. He demanded those trades. It's a totally different situation.

I'm trying to look back and see where I've ever said that Bradley was "DOMINANT" and acted like his impact on the game was comparable to Shaq's. The simple fact is that you're unjustifiably dismissing Bradley's contributions and sighting nothing more than the mass moronism among the league's fans and reporters to back you up. I mean, in the grand scheme of things what is the point of saying: he's only playing because he's 7'6". All that matters is that he's capable of playing and giving a team something it needs, and Shawn is certainly capable of that. Go back and read the quotes from oppopsing coaches about Shawn and look at the defensive numbers when he's in vs. out of the game. Do the research and I promise you'll be singing a different tune about him. No one (other than you) has tried to compare him to Shaq, but based on his and Calvin's career stats he's clearly, as Miles suggested, the better choice for second string center on this team.

[madape]

Originally posted by: Mavs Maniac
Hey MadApe, you may be right. I certainly hope not, but it may be true. But don't you think we ought to, at least give him a chance? I mean, he's never played on a team with the quality of players we have. Didn't he take his Miss. St. team to a Final Four?

I suppose that as a Maverick fan, I have no other choice than to give Dampier a chance. I love this team and this team has chosen to pin it's future, in part, on him. What choice to I have? If the Mavericks are to succeed, Dampier has to succeed. Considering all we gave up to get him, he better. But nothing changes the fact that the Mavericks gave up a jaw dropping seven year $80 million contract , two solid veteran rotation guys in Laettner and Najera, two first round draft picks, and millions upon millions of dollars in expiring contracts for a guy who's been at BEST a mediocre center in this league for the past seven years (I've gone further in the past to say that he's been the worst regular starting center of the past decade, but that point is debatable). If you want to remain in denial and think that this move was good for the Mavs, feel free to continue. But what I'm afraid of, and what you should be afraid of too, is that the Mavericks mortgaged their future... and I mean mortgaged it in a way that would make Isiah Thomas blush ... for a guy who shouldn't even be starting for this team.

Let's face reality. Shawn Bradley makes a bigger impact in the areas in which we need a player to make an impact. Shotblocking, intimidating inside defensive presense, intinsity. These are the areas that people point to when they criticize the Mavericks, and they are areas in which Shawn excels when given playing time. Dampier is nothing but a slow, dumb lump of flesh that rebounds pretty well, and leans on people. That's all he is! Shawn is a better player overall, and more importantly he's a better fit fot this team It's not a popular opinion now, but it is already starting to be proven true. Just wait and see how quickly the excitement over Dump dies off. It will make the brief love-fest over Fortson from last off-season look like decades of adulation in comparison. Dump is going to stink up the joint, just as he has his entire career. It's inevitable. Trust me, I've been watching him for years.

The Mavericks SHOULD be starting Shawn along with Dirk in the front court. They SHOULD have Laettner, Booth, Najera, and Henderson backing them up. They SHOULD have Pavel and DJ developing to be Shawn's eventual replacement. They SHOULD have two first round draft picks to look forward to. They SHOULD should be thinking about how to turn all of those expiring contracts they traded away into a superstar player like Jason Kidd or Vince Carter. But they fucked up. They fucked up big time.

Instead what do the Mavericks have? Erick Dampier - a guy who's done nothing but SUCK for six out of the last seven years. And they have him locked up until 2010. They have no draft picks. They have no depth in the frontcourt. The Mavericks have handed the reigns of this team over to a player with questionable leadership skills (Dirk), and surrounded him with a bunch of unproven players at key positions. If Dirk is incapable of leading this team, then what? What if Dirk gets injured? What if he gets upset with management? If any of these things happen, this team will be mired in the lottery... deep in the lottery.. with no draft picks for several years, and cap crippling contracts for aging players that exend out into the next decade. Not a rosy picture, is it? All this thanks to one stupid move. The Dampier trade.

Give Dampier a chance? OK, sure. But excuse me if I'm not brimming with giddiness about what I see as the possible complete desctruction of this franchise.

[EricaLubarsky]

Let's face reality. Shawn Bradley makes a bigger impact in the areas in which we need a player to make an impact. Shotblocking, intimidating inside defensive presense, intinsity. These are the areas that people point to when they criticize the Mavericks,

Madape, this argument is absolutely insanely off base and it provides as much support of Dampier as it does for Bradley. Let me get this right....Bradley provides intimidating inside defensive presence but Dampier does not? Bradley provides shotblocking but Dampier does not? Bradley of all people brings intensity but Dampier will not? The argument makes my head spin it is so bad. Dampier is widely accepted as one of the best defensive big men in the league, and he is a pretty good shot blocker. Dampier has consistently beaten Bradley in bpg for the last three seasons. The fact is that Bradley isnt a frenetic fool out there- he rarely brings more energy than a whipped dog (although I cant blame him for it.), and if you watched ANY Dampier last season you'd know that he may not be an energy player but he does play with a burning, personal intensity. Dampier provides everything you said we needed, although I really doubt the team has problems with intensity. Interior presence, ability to get FTs in tough spots, and defense all around are the three real concerns, of which we have answered every single one this summer, at least on paper.

Shawn is a better player overall

how can you say that when Dampier has outdone all of Bradley's numbers for the last three seasons. scoring, rebounding, defense, plus/minus and shotblocking. I don't get it. What criterion are you using? Does FT% determine the better overall player. What?

Give Dampier a chance? OK, sure. But excuse me if I'm not brimming with giddiness about what I see as the possible complete desctruction of this franchise.

this is a conflicting message with your idea that the real problem with this team is management's attempt to get Nowitzki to lead the team.......dampier may have made things more difficult by one draft pick if we are rebuilding but you have honestly no evidence or reason to believe that he will destroy the team. If anything the argument that Dampier is mediocre and the idea that he will destroy the team fall short of each other. If Dampier sucks worse than Laettner and Najera, then we don't have the 4-5th best center in the league. Big deal. That is a far shot from having the team fall apart. Besides, if he sucks as much as you think he will, we still have Bradley.

{Bradley is better and} it is already starting to be proven true

when? Im wondering when this started, since we havent played a single game.

Considering all we gave up to get him, he better

money, a draft pick, Najera and Laettner....if we are over the cap no matter what and Cuban is willing to pay, then what....a draft pick, Najera and Laettner (who Golden State later waived.). I'd trade Najera and a late first-round draft pick for Dampier any day, and since Damp only cost us Najera, I don't see why it is so necessary that he play well. If he provides something that Najera didnt, then we are ahead of the game.

Dump is going to stink up the joint, just as he has his entire career. It's inevitable.

are you the one that has refused every single bet regarding this? If you are so certain and want us to take your blathering pessimism as fact because you say so, then you should have enough confidence to bet. I've offered twice already and you have refused both. I'm a Golden State fan and I've seen Dampier play. Dampier sucking is absolutely not inevitable. I also don't see how you are, quote, "Giv{ing} Dampier a chance" when you say that in your mind it is inevitable that he will fail. You really talk out both sides of your mouth there.

[Mavs Maniac]

I'm with you on thinking he's a better second string center than Booth. But I think for a different reason. Bradley definitely alters shots, I'll concede that, but only because with his height + wingspan, he is something you have to deal with in the paint. I think that as a second stringer, he actually fits into Nellie's mode of trying to confuse the other team with a completely different look.

As for the Shaq comment, I was just trying to pre-empt a "well Shaq has been on three teams" arguement for the sake of arguement. It wasn't an attempt to compare their play by ANY means!!!

What I was trying to say, was that Bradley is simply not, never was/ never will be, a starting quality center in the NBA. That has nothing to do with fans or with reporters. That has everything to do with players saying, in the past, they don't fear Dallas in the playoffs because they:

A) have no half court game, which most would say hinges around a center,

B) are soft in the middle.

You can't tell me that you think if we had not gone out and signed Dampier, that would change. (The jury's still out on the half court game!) But I don't think you'll find anyone calling us soft in the middle anymore. As for Shawn being capable of playing, sure, but giving us something we need, well, he's a center and we STILL NEEDED a center! I guess what I'm trying to say, is that yes he may alter the defensive end when he is in there, but at what cost? When he is in, on the offensive side, we play 4 players to the opposition's 5. Yes, you'll find some games where he actually shows up and scores some points, but be careful with stats. Everyone knows that stats can be manipulated to prove whatever one wants them to prove.

I'm just going off of what I see. And that is Shawn getting dunked on, or constantly complaining to the refs, whenever he is in the game. He is effective in spurts, but he is just not someone you can depend on, night in and night out. Left on the court, you can not argue that he does not become a liability over time.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Ape, you can't be serious about this can you?

"two solid veteran rotation guys in Laettner and Najera, two first round draft picks,"


It's funny how you are all on the Najera bandwaggon since he has left. A solid veteran rotation guy? This coming from the same guy who said this"Najera is a stinking greasy bucket of Sh-t...". Now he's a solid veteran to you? And as stated numerous times one of those picks is a conditional first rounder which will more than likely end up in a money exception. The other is the Mavs pick which will be somewhere 25-30 range. Some things you have got to just let go.

[madape]

Madape, this argument is absolutely insanely off base and it provides as much support of Dampier as it does for Bradley. Let me get this right....Bradley provides intimidating inside defensive presence but Dampier does not? Bradley provides shotblocking but Dampier does not? Bradley of all people brings intensity but Dampier will not? The argument makes my head spin it is so bad. Dampier is widely accepted as one of the best defensive big men in the league, and he is a pretty good shot blocker. Dampier has consistently beaten Bradley in bpg for the last three seasons. The fact is that Bradley isnt a frenetic fool out there- he rarely brings more energy than a whipped dog (although I cant blame him for it.), and if you watched ANY Dampier last season you'd know that he may not be an energy player but he does play with a burning, personal intensity.

how can you say that when Dampier has outdone all of Bradley's numbers for the last three seasons. scoring, rebounding, defense, and shotblocking. I don't get it. What criterion are you using? Does FT% determine the better overall player. What?

This is a conflicting message with your idea that the real problem with this team is management's attempt to get Nowitzki to lead the team.......

Yes, Bradley is a more intimidating defensive presense. Not just by a little, but by a lot. Go look at opposing field goal percentage when Shawn is on the floor versus when he's off. Look over the past five years and see how many more points when score with Shawn in the game versus when he's on the bench. Compare those stats with Dampiers. Read what opposing players say about Shawn when he's given more than five mintues. Better yet, watch the games. No one in this league, and I mean no one, Has more of an impact on the game defensively than Shawn. 75% of it may be "just because he's tall", but that doesn't change the fact that he changes the game when he's on the court... and changes it in a way that the Mavericks desperately need it to be changed. And I don't care if a player is born with eight ten-foot tentacles with lobster claws on the end, if he can make an impact defensively, I want him in the game.

You are right, Dampier has had better per-game stats than Shawn for teh past three years or so. But even a child can see that this is becaus eof one reason and one reason only - Dampier got more playing time. Shawn's per 48 minute stats are better in almost every single instance than Dumps. When given playing time time, Shawn performs. When given playing time, this team wins.. and not just in the regular season, but in the playoffs too. The biggest tragedy the Mavericks have had in the past 10 years is not that fans and pundits across the country have criticized the Mavericks for not playing a defensive impact player at center, it's that we've had the biggest defensive impact player in the entire league on our roster since the mid ninties and haven't played him! I'm not going to analyze Shawn for what he does while he's on the bench, I'm going to analyze him for what he does on the court. And what he does on the court is a level above and beyond what Dampier does. Dampier is a decent player, and I won't argue that he makes an impact defensively. But for the things we need our center to provide in order for us to win, Shawn is on another level. Plain and simple. Dump isn't worth what we gave up to get him, and he's not worth keeping Shawn on the bench. Shawn should be starting. Dump should be an Atlanta Hawk.

As for Dampier playing with a "burning, personal intensity"... that is nothing but a "burning" load of soft post-hangover poop! No one. NO ONE. NO ONE NO ONE NO ONE. has had a career marked with more laziness, more lackadasical,uninspired play... more absolute indifference to improving his game over the past seven years than Erick Dampier. You say he's known as "one of the best defenders in the league".. Bah! His real reputation is one of being a slow, lazy bum who has all the ablities in the world but who doesn't give two shits about putting the effort into making himself better. It's the reason Golden State gave up on him and instead gave Adonal Foyle, Dump's backup, a multi-year big dollar contract. It's why it took all summer for anyone to step up and sign him. IT's why he got basically nothing but mid-level exception offers by every other team in the NBA.

I watched him last year, and the year before that and the year before that. I watched him in during his rookie year, and you know what? He's the exact same player now as he was back then. No change. No nothing. I can't think of a single player in the NBA who looks like he cares LESS about the game while he's on the court than Erick Dampier. "Burning, personal intensity" my ass! "Cold, dried, petridfied dog turd" is more like it. The man has no desire. Don't buy the Avery Johnson spin. He's shoving a load of "burning", steaming, stinging diarrhea down your poop-thirsty gullet.

[sike]

Give Dampier a chance? OK, sure. But excuse me if I'm not brimming with giddiness about what I see as the possible complete desctruction of this franchise.

backtracking before they've even played a game?

The Mavericks SHOULD be starting Shawn along with Dirk in the front court.

except all indications point to Dirk not wanting this...how many times does he need to say things like now that we have a center....and damp is just what we've needed? How many times have we seen Dirk give Bradley the rolled eyes of frustration? I don't think there is much debate as to how Dirk feels about Shawn. Ape, your support of Bradley goes well beyond that his own teammates are willing to grant him. That should speak volumes to how he is preceived by the players.

[madape]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Ape, you can't be serious about this can you?

"two solid veteran rotation guys in Laettner and Najera, two first round draft picks,"


It's funny how you are all on the Najera bandwaggon since he has left. A solid veteran rotation guy? This coming from the same guy who said this"Najera is a stinking greasy bucket of Sh-t...". Now he's a solid veteran to you? And as stated numerous times one of those picks is a conditional first rounder which will more than likely end up in a money exception. The other is the Mavs pick which will be somewhere 25-30 range. Some things you have got to just let go.

I wasn't the biggest fan of Najera, ture. I loved Christian Laettner while he was here. With the expulsion of our two franchise power forwards, we desperately needed both. Now we have neither, and we have a gaping hole at power forward. Depth is critical in this league, especially frontcourt depth. Najera isn't a world beater, he got far too much playing time while he was here. But as a third option behind Dirk, Laettner, and Booth? I think he'd have filled that role very nicely. Much more nicely than the current Maverick starting center fits his new role.

As for the draft picks, go ahead and dismiss them. I admire that before the Dampier debacle we made a real effort to get younger, and I LOVE all of our young players. But the biggest mistake you can make is to clap your hands together and say "there, I'm done getting younger". Becuase if this team doesn't work out, and there's a big possibility that it won't, you'll have NO options to rebuild. That conditional pick very well could turn out to be a pick around the lower part of the lottery. I don't need to remind you the kind of players you can find there.. but only one of our current crop of players was taken with a pick higher than what that conditional pick will probably end up being, and where our real 2005 pick will probably end up being (if it's 25-30, I'll eat my hat). That's two potential building blocks flushed down the toilet. Sorry if I'm not as quick to dismiss them as you are.

[chumdawg]

Ape, are you suggesting that one of the guys (Dirk) who is actually ON the team, and who has BEEN on the team for a few years now, is flat wrong when he says "finally we have a real center"?

[EricaLubarsky]

Najera isn't a world beater, he got far too much playing time while he was here. But as a third option behind Dirk, Laettner, and Booth? I think he'd have filled that role very nicely.

so not playing if he's the 4th string PF.

we desperately needed both

We needed Laettner who was waived by Golden State, and Najera, who you admit wouldnt get any playing time...hmmmm...

[sike]

Dampier is a decent player, and I won't argue that he makes an impact defensively.

there is no way that you are allowed to say this.

[madape]

Originally posted by: sike

backtracking before they've even played a game?

except all indications point to Dirk not wanting this...how many times does he need to say things like now that we have a center....and damp is just what we've needed? How many times have we seen Dirk give Bradley the rolled eyes of frustration? I don't think there is much debate as to how Dirk feels about Shawn. Ape, your support of Bradley goes well beyond that his own teammates are willing to grant him. That should speak volumes to how he is preceived by the players.

Now that you mention it, I agree. I think Dirk is a big part of the problem. This is our new leader, and he can't even try to play with his teammates? Teammates who have been here longer than he has? Sure, he likes Dampier now.. because he's not Shawn. But what happens when he realizes Dampier isn't any better? Will he turn on him ? Will he roll his eyes? Again, Steve is gone. Dirk is the man, now. And I don't think we can have our leader driving wedges in the locker room and ripping on teammates. It might be too early to say that Dirk can't lead this team, but his actions in the past leads me to question his ability. There's certainly nothing nice to say about the way Dirk has tried to work with Shawn.

[sike]

This is our new leader, and he can't even try to play with his teammates?

I think Dirk has probably tried for six years and come to a pretty solid personal conclusion...of course I don't know this any more than you know dirk never gave Shawn a chance.

There's certainly nothing nice to say about the way Dirk has tried to work with Shawn.

how do you know this??....I personally have no clue as to how little or how great an effort Dirk has made to appreciate Shawn's game. My guess is, this is mere speculation.

[FilthyFinMavs]

I'm not quick to dismiss them but Josh wasn't projected to go as low as he did. Josh was projected to be a top 20 pick and due to a couple of projects being taken he happened to have slipped down to us. We didn't even draft Daniels. We got him out of free agency. We did that again this year with Benga. I see no reason to believe why we can't continue to find young talent and I see no reason to believe this team will stop looking at young talent. Chances of you getting a player who can come in and produce right out of the rookie class in the later round are slim. The reason I have no problem with them giving up the draft picks is that look at our current young guys on this team: Daniels, Howard, Harris, Benga and Pavel. How much younger do you want to become? That's not enough to last you until we get our draft picks back? As far as the four position goes for the Mavs I think we are also fine but we could use an upgrade. I don't mind Benga, Booth and Henderson backing up Dirk. You can't be as deep as we are at the 2, 3 and 5 position at every position on the court.

That conditional pick very well could turn out to be a pick around the lower part of the lottery.

I doubt it. Looking at rosters right now the 6ers aren't even a top 20 team in this league.

[EricaLubarsky]

Dickau and Logan are usually the kind of players found at the bottom of the first round. Howard and Daniels are definitely freaks.

1999
Tim James
Vonteego Cummings
Jumaine Jones
Scott Padgett
Leon Smith

2000
Jake Tsakalidis
Mamadou N'diaye
Primoz Brezec
Erick Barkley
Mark Madsen

2001- some freak stuff
Raul Lopez
Gerald Wallace
Samuel Dalembert
Jamaal Tinsley
Tony Parker

2002
Frank Williams
John Salmons
Chris Jefferies
Dan Dickau

[sike]

But what happens when he realizes Dampier isn't any better?

I agree that given minutes, Shawn would put up decent numbers...but not anything like 12-12-2. Maybe something like 10-8-4. If Damp(who will receive minutes gives the team even just 9-10-2 while palying tough inside D, I don't think Dirk or anyone on this forum will have too much of an issue. I think we'd be ecstatic.

[EricaLubarsky]

from hating on Dampier to hating on Dirk.....Madape is certainly making his own bed.

[Drbio]

Why does the mere mention of Shawn Bradley always inspire a Bradley vs. someone else four page exchange?

Damp is the starter. He does many things well. He is our starting center. Let's support him.
Bradley is an amazing shot blocker who can at times completely dominate and at other times is frustrating. He is our backup center (with Booth). Let's support him.

Why the constant denigration of one of our players just because someone else made a complementary statement about another?

[sike]

to doc:
ahem....

I agree that given minutes, Shawn would put up decent numbers...but not anything like 12-12-2. Maybe something like 10-8-4. If Damp(who will receive minutes gives the team even just 9-10-2 while palying tough inside D, I don't think Dirk or anyone on this forum will have too much of an issue. I think we'd be ecstatic.

I think some of us have achieved some level of enlightenment [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[madape]

Originally posted by: Drbio
Why does the mere mention of Shawn Bradley always inspire a Bradley vs. someone else four page exchange?

Damp is the starter. He does many things well. He is our starting center. Let's support him.
Bradley is an amazing shot blocker who can at times completely dominate and at other times is frustrating. He is our backup center (with Booth). Let's support him.

Why the constant denigration of one of our players just because someone else made a complementary statement about another?

Oh please. You meant it's not OK to criticize certain Mavericks on this board? Do I need to pull up any of the virulent hatred that was spewed from 95% of our members towards Antoine Walker? A three time all-star? A guy who notched back to back triple doubles for us? I don't think so.

Criticism of Dampier, and of the Mavericks for trading for him, is certainly within the relevant bounds of this discussion. As is a discussion of Dirk's ability to lead this team. Frequenting a Maverick fan site does not entitle you protection from dissenting opinions. Admitedly, I've criticized hundreds of posters over the years for claiming that the sky is falling. Hell, I've ridiculed them. But I never proposed that the possibility of the sky falling shouldn't be a topic that needed to be discussed. Open criticism of the team, it's decisions, it's actions and it's future is what keeps boards like this active and alive. We can't be commanded to toe the party line and put on happy face, especially when all signs point to the possibility that the sky might actually BE falling.

So no, I'm not going to accept any of the unsolicited suggestions I've received on this site in the past couple of weeks and just "let it go" and "support the team". I'm going to speak my mind about what I see is a disaster waiting to happen. If you don't agree with me, let me know why you don't agree. But don't tell me (in so many words) to shut up.

[Drbio]

ape- where please tell did I ask you to shut up? I just asked an obvious question. Why is it that every time Bradleys name is mentioned, that it turns into a Bradley sucks or so-and-so is better than Bradley bash? It is inevitable.

Criticisim towards a player is great. Turning every Bradley post into a thread where he gets bashed relentlessly is absurd. Obviously I'm not throwing that stone AT you, but if you will look into and thread with the mere mention of Bradley it will always self destruct into a Bradley vs. so-and-so thread.

I just don't get the Bradley hatred.


BTW...Walker did suck. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[madape]

Originally posted by: sike
to doc:
ahem....

I think some of us have achieved some level of enlightenment [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Would you rather have 9-10-2 or 10-8-4? If you'd prefer to give up Shawn's 1 point and 2 blocks for Dampiers 2 rebounds, how much is it worth to you? Is it worth $80 million, 2 first rounders, Najera, Christian Laettner and $8 Million in expiring contracts? It's not worth it to me.

[Drbio]

Also, a complementary statement regarding one of our players should not be an invitation to bash that player. If someone feels that way....why not respect the player and allow an occassional complement. Those are my points.

[sike]

Originally posted by: madape

Would you rather have 9-10-2 or 10-8-4? If you'd prefer to give up Shawn's 1 point and 2 blocks for Dampiers 2 rebounds, how much is it worth to you? Is it worth $80 million, 2 first rounders, Najera, Christian Laettner and $8 Million in expiring contracts? It's not worth it to me.

I'll take Damp's best over Shawn's best if that is the real question. I of course would rather have Shawn's best over Damp's worst...and Would happily take the same effort that Damp gave game in and game out last season with slightly lower numbers than the 12-12-2.

but living in reality as I do, I am most excited that the team I cheer for has both Damp and Shawn.

All in all, I see the picture far differently than you ape...I see the sky as the limit...while you see it as falling.

[Arne]

HAHAHA... This madape guy is a big joke!

[endtroducing]

I think Bradley should start at center and Dampier should play PF. let's forget this Dirk fool is even here

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: Arne
HAHAHA... This madape guy is a big joke!

Arne- don't be foolish in your first dozen posts. You have ten posts and if you want to be taken seriously here in this forum you should post WHY you think ape might be wrong, not fire off some out of the rear end zinger.


Step up to the line and be taken seriously or hush.

[Mavs Maniac]

Now that you mention it, I agree. I think Dirk is a big part of the problem. This is our new leader, and he can't even try to play with his teammates? Teammates who have been here longer than he has?

Do I need to pull up any of the virulent hatred that was spewed from 95% of our members towards Antoine Walker? A three time all-star? A guy who notched back to back triple doubles for us?

I know you are not trying to insinuate that we'd have been better off trading Dirk and keeping Antoine!!!

[dude1394]

Although I think bradley should have been playing he does have some offensive issues. One is that he's very poor in the blocks, he just gets pushed around and doesn't finish well. Also he doesn't catch the ball on the move and again finish well.

What I'm hoping with damp is that he can catch and finish or stand his ground and get up a decent shot in the blocks. Bradley was not exactly stellar with that.

[Arne]

@Drbio
Madape should just take a damn look at the efficiency rating. I can't take him seriously, with his opinions about half of the roster, no matter how many posts he has, or how many posts I have.

Quote from madape:"...for a guy who's been at BEST a mediocre center in this league for the past seven years..."
Does he call a guy, who has been the third best center in the efficieny rating last year, a mediocre center? I just can't see his point... And can he just totally ignore, that the guy has been the 24th-best player in whole efficiency rating?

Antoine Walker was the 45th-best player and a guy like Kenny Thomas could get in front of him in that rating...
I also think that he's a cancer for every team, almost as much as Ricky Davis was in Cleveland.
And the most effective way to get him involved was that fu..... small ball, hich saved his field goal percentage as well.

Don't get me wrong, he's not a bad player at all. He can get a mediocre team in the playoffs. But he's just not what a Team needs to win the trophy.

[madape]

Originally posted by: Arne
@Drbio
Madape should just take a damn look at the efficiency rating. I can't take him seriously, with his opinions about half of the roster, no matter how many posts he has, or how many posts I have.

Quote from madape:"...for a guy who's been at BEST a mediocre center in this league for the past seven years..."
Does he call a guy, who has been the third best center in the efficieny rating last year, a mediocre center? I just can't see his point... And can he just totally ignore, that the guy has been the 24th-best player in whole efficiency rating?

Antoine Walker was the 45th-best player and a guy like Kenny Thomas could get in front of him in that rating...
I also think that he's a cancer for every team, almost as much as Ricky Davis was in Cleveland.
And the most effective way to get him involved was that fu..... small ball, hich saved his field goal percentage as well.

Don't get me wrong, he's not a bad player at all. He can get a mediocre team in the playoffs. But he's just not what a Team needs to win the trophy.

You apparently haven't been a basketball fan for very long. I've been watching Dampier for years, and I can tell you that the man has always been a piece of shit. I've watched year after year after year of terrible play from this man. And one year of good rebounding isn't going to change my mind about the man. You put a lot of faith into stats, I guess. But do you even bother to analyze the stats? Dampier had a big bump in rebounding last year, and it impacted his efficiency ratings. But the story behind those number is that the ENTIRE GOLDEN STATE FRONTCOURT was either injured or traded away last year. Dampier spent almost the entire year playing along side Cliff Robinson in the paint. CLIFF ROBINSON! Cliff Robinson is without a doubt the worst rebounding power forward in the history of the NBA. I'm not exagerating when I say that if Evan Eschmeyer would have logged Dampier's minutes, he would have averaged better stats. Hell, nine out of ten centers on an NBA roster might have been able to log a double double for that terrible team.

And you are really proving yourself to be a fool when you talk about efficiency ratings. That is a stat that has been absolutely dominated by Shawn Bradley, ever since the damn thing has been an official NBA stat. He spent the majority of the 2002 season in the top ten. Quite a bit of the time, he was #1. Not just among centers, but for all NBA players. #1! I bet you didn't know that. He has also in the past been had the most impact on how well the Mavericks play as a team. When Shawn is on the court, the Mavericks have outscored their opponents by more points than when any just about any other player has been on the court, and he's done it consistently. That stat is called "plus/minus"., by the way. Look into it.

You might wonder what Dampier's plus/minus was last year... I'll tell you. It was bad. Admittedly, Dampier played for a bad team (coincidence?) But Wayne Winston, a professor at the Kelly school of Business at Indiana has developed an algorithm that levels the playing field for players on bad teams. Guess what his analysis showed? Golden State played about as poorly with Dump on the court as they did when he was off. He had almost zero impact on how well they played. That's the truth. That's the story behind the stats. Anyone can find one stat that proves one point or another, but only a guy who actually watches the games should be able to comment. You obviously have never watched Dump. The years and years of GS games I've witness has let me to one conclusion: Dump is a bad player. Last year was no exception. This year will be no exception.

And I'm not even going to get into an Antoine Walker vs. Dumpier debate. That's a comparison only a fool would make.

[Arne]

First, you don't know sh.. about me, so you can't say, if I've been watching Damp or not.

If Bradley is that much of a dominant Player in the efficiency rating, so why don't you put him in the S5 and give him 30 minutes...because his knees would split into pieces and you wouldn't get more than 35 games from him.

If you compare the plus/minus from Dampier in Golden State, to Dampier in Dallas, than you are the fool. Because Dampier would have to be a leader or a franchise player to get Golden State to succes. But he isn't and so it will be a lot better for him, to play in Dallas where he just has to contribute some rebounds and some defense.

And please post the plus/minus of Walker... I heard it's just fantastic...