Rumor: Daniels out ... could miss opener - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

V · 10-15-2004, 10:35 PM

I'm sorry, no details yet ... sounds like trouble with the ankle

grndmstr_c · 10-15-2004, 10:46 PM

New DMN article says the second opinion came back the same as the first. Rest and rehab (no mention of surgery) are the Rx, though there is some speculation that he might not be ready to go by the start of the regular season.

kg_veteran · 10-15-2004, 10:53 PM

As soon as I read about Daniels' injury, I started worrying about it. My worst fear was that we might be seeing Jimmy Jackson, Part Two.

Let's hope I'm wrong.

4cwebb · 10-15-2004, 11:21 PM

Even if Daniels does have to miss some time to start the season, this shouldn't be terribly troubling for the Mavs from a players-capable-of-stepping-in-and-playing standpoint with Stackhouse and Howard on the roster. I guess the only question is whether either player would have trouble moving back to the bench if Daniels misses a fair number of games to start the season.

grndmstr_c · 10-15-2004, 11:45 PM

Quote:

I guess the only question is whether either player would have trouble moving back to the bench if Daniels misses a fair number of games to start the season.

Early indications are that Nellie is going to stick with Stack off the bench come hell or high water, so you can pretty much eliminate him from that consideration. As for Josh - he and Quis are best friends. I don't think there would be any friction there.

MavsFanFinley · 10-16-2004, 12:07 AM

Click on the link, scroll to the bottom of the article. It provides who had the best assist/to ratio for the Mavs last season.

DMN

Mavericks' rookie Harris must pick up dishes
Guard needed to pass and protect the ball while Daniels is out

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

Don Nelson is exploring his options in the event that Marquis Daniels' injured left ankle limits his availability when the Mavericks' regular season begins Nov. 2.

The projected starter at shooting guard, Daniels has yet to take part in training camp because of the ankle sprain suffered two months ago.

After a second-opinion Thursday turned up the same diagnosis as Rockets' team physician Dr. T.O. Souryal – more rehab and rest – the time has come to consider contingency plans.

"I'm making 'em," Nelson said Friday. "I'm thinking that I may have to be starting some of the games without him. So that puts quite a burden on us."

Nelson rates Daniels as perhaps the most gifted passer on the team. After 23 turnovers in the preseason opener, Nelson is looking for some playmaking savvy.

While Jerry Stackhouse and Josh Howard are capable players, they are not the ballhandler that Daniels is, which is why much of the burden could fall on rookie Devin Harris.

Jason Terry is a solid starting point guard. But his assist-to-turnover ratio last season was 1.9-to-1, not among the top 50 in the NBA. Steve Nash, who signed with Phoenix in the offseason, led the Mavericks last year with a 3.3-to-1 ratio, sixth in the league.

Stackhouse also isn't adept at distributing the ball.

"You ask him to pass the ball too much, we're going to have 50 turnovers in a game," Nelson said. "You can't expect players to be something they're not. So far, I'm worried about our passing. Marquis was the guy. [Not having him] puts pressure on everybody."

Harris put on a show at Thursday's full-scale practice and is improving day by day. But Nelson was hoping not to have to force-feed the rookie. Until Daniels is back in the lineup, he may have no choice. Daniels will rejoin the Mavericks today and travel to Orlando for Sunday's exhibition, although he will not suit up.

For Harris, the absence of Daniels means he gets more chances to contribute. That means putting emphasis on defense and holding onto the basketball.

"From talking to Josh and Marquis, that's the way a rookie can get on the floor," Harris said. "Turnovers, definitely, will be a focus."

Briefly:

The Mavericks still haven't gotten word on the results of the independent exam on Tariq Abdul-Wahad. ... The team will have a Select-A-Seat/Tent Sale at American Airlines Center today from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. Fans who purchase merchandise or tickets will be able to watch a Mavs' practice on the main court from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m.

MavKikiNYC · 10-16-2004, 07:21 AM

As always with Nelson, the player he DOESN'T have is the key.

4cwebb · 10-16-2004, 09:24 AM

Thing is that with the improved defense of the Mavs this season (or projected, as the case may be), an increase in turnovers, while not desirable, shouldn't necessarily change the outcomes of games too often. Fact is, Mavs' fans have been spoiled in the last few seasons when it comes to the low double digit or single digit per game turnovers which the Mavs would often commit, but that advantage was negated in part by the poor defense of the Mavericks. This year, if the defense improves in getting stops it should make up for the increase in turnovers.

orangedays · 10-16-2004, 09:32 AM

I guess it's easy to have seller's remorse (or in this case, letting-your-All-Star-point-guard-go-for-nothing remorse). Anything we do to make our team better is going to come with opportunity costs (I have already read articles about how losing Antawn Jamison means we lose the ability to get easy buckets...uh huh). I admit that losing Nash was a blow to the team, even based purely on the assists-turnover statistic, BUT I believe that with the proper motivation (benchtime) and the proper coaxing from the coaching staff, Terry and Harris will be able to turn in high-quality, low-turnover games. Both are very capable and talented players, and IMO it shouldn't be hard to teach these guys to take care of the rock. I am a little surprised to read those Nellie comments on Daniels though; from what I saw last season he wasn't That great of a passer and by no means was he a key to the offensive ball rotation. Then again who am I to argue with Nellie.

Don_Didi · 10-16-2004, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: 4cwebb
Thing is that with the improved defense of the Mavs this season (or projected, as the case may be), an increase in turnovers, while not desirable, shouldn't necessarily change the outcomes of games too often. Fact is, Mavs' fans have been spoiled in the last few seasons when it comes to the low double digit or single digit per game turnovers which the Mavs would often commit, but that advantage was negated in part by the poor defense of the Mavericks. This year, if the defense improves in getting stops it should make up for the increase in turnovers.

Well, if that supplies us with surplus (extra wins, better playoff performance), I'll take that. That said, I do hope Marquis doesn't miss too many games. It's not just about Marquis's ability to handle the ball, it's his high-percentage shooting (not including 3-point range, of course) and his defense that I'll miss the most.

MavKikiNYC · 10-16-2004, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: 4cwebb
Thing is that with the improved defense of the Mavs this season (or projected, as the case may be), an increase in turnovers, while not desirable, shouldn't necessarily change the outcomes of games too often. Fact is, Mavs' fans have been spoiled in the last few seasons when it comes to the low double digit or single digit per game turnovers which the Mavs would often commit, but that advantage was negated in part by the poor defense of the Mavericks. This year, if the defense improves in getting stops it should make up for the increase in turnovers.

Exactly.

The team ratio of turnovers forced to turnovers surrendered is probably at least as important as individual assist to turnover ratios.

sike · 10-16-2004, 12:41 PM

Quote:

"You ask him to pass the ball too much, we're going to have 50 turnovers in a game," Nelson said. "You can't expect players to be something they're not. So far, I'm worried about our passing. Marquis was the guy. [Not having him] puts pressure on everybody."

what the heck does "Marquis was the guy" mean? Not even two games into the preseason and Nellie is already laying the bricks of his excuse house. I hate that....whatever happend to coaches believing in their team?

DubOverdose · 10-16-2004, 04:16 PM

This is why we need depth at the 2-3 position. I won't lose any sleep if Daniels has to miss 10 games of the season. I'd much rather him take all the time he needs to recover before coming back. Devin can play some PG time and Terry can even play the 2 guard at times as well. Dickau at point anyone?

EricaLubarsky · 10-16-2004, 05:11 PM

I agree, although if Stack and Howard go out, we will be incredibly thin. I really don't want to see Harris/Terry/Finley/Dirk/Booth.

FreshJive · 10-16-2004, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

Quote:

Originally posted by: 4cwebb
Thing is that with the improved defense of the Mavs this season (or projected, as the case may be), an increase in turnovers, while not desirable, shouldn't necessarily change the outcomes of games too often. Fact is, Mavs' fans have been spoiled in the last few seasons when it comes to the low double digit or single digit per game turnovers which the Mavs would often commit, but that advantage was negated in part by the poor defense of the Mavericks. This year, if the defense improves in getting stops it should make up for the increase in turnovers.

Exactly.

The team ratio of turnovers forced to turnovers surrendered is probably at least as important as individual assist to turnover ratios.

Well, doing a quick look at the stats it appears that the Mavs led the league last season in own Vs opposing turnovers +/- at +2.6.

DubOverdose · 10-16-2004, 05:58 PM

That's because the Mavs didn't force many TOs.

FreshJive · 10-16-2004, 06:50 PM

Mabye I should have said -2.6. They commited 2.6 less turnovers than they caused. They were 15th in the league in causing turnovers, so they were average at causing thier opponent to turnover the ball, and excellent at taking care of the ball.

MavKikiNYC · 10-16-2004, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
Mabye I should have said -2.6. They commited 2.6 less turnovers than they caused. They were 15th in the league in causing turnovers, so they were average at causing thier opponent to turnover the ball, and excellent at taking care of the ball.

My point is that not having a player like Nash (or Daniels, for gosh sake) this year doesn't have to spell disaster. They may throw the ball away a bit more, but as long as they can create more pressure and generate a few additional turnovers, they won't necessarily be a worse team. And if the turnovers result in (easier) fast break buckets, then they may even come out a little ahead.

Without consulting any stats, I have the impression that the Nets under Jason Kidd could have games (over the last 3 years) where Kidd himself might give the ball up 4, 5, 6x per game, but the Nets would, as a team, offset that with defensive steals and blocked shots, and end up getting dunks and layups in transition. Those are higher percentage shots than Dirk nailing a 20-footer off a pick-and-roll, or Fin hitting a 22-footer off a Nash drive-and-kick.

If Terry and Harris can be ball hawks, then their lesser abilities as playmakers may not hurt the Mavs that much.

EricaLubarsky · 10-16-2004, 09:00 PM

I doubt Terry will average 4.3TO/g but because of his rebounding and his steals he makes an extra 1.62(adjusted) possessions more for the team than Nash did. Since he is making those extra possessions, he could blow them as well, but hopefully he will not.

That isn't calculating that hypothetical mixed shots that Terry may force if he lives up to his hype as a defender.

4cwebb · 10-16-2004, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
Mabye I should have said -2.6. They commited 2.6 less turnovers than they caused. They were 15th in the league in causing turnovers, so they were average at causing thier opponent to turnover the ball, and excellent at taking care of the ball.

But it's not just about causing extra turnovers with their defense, imho, as it is also about actually being able to get stops on defense. A missed shot and a defensive rebound are just as good as a turnover, and this year, if the Mavs are actually able to play better defense due to the changes in personnel, they should be able to stop teams more frequently than they have in the past.

FreshJive · 10-17-2004, 05:35 AM

Quote:

If Terry and Harris can be ball hawks, then their lesser abilities as playmakers may not hurt the Mavs that much.

I agree, but my point is that they are going to have to be way above average at pressuring the ball, and at least adequate at handling the ball to meet the performances over the last few years, because the bar was set pretty high. The Mavs will probably lose out on the TO game compared to last year.

FreshJive · 10-17-2004, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
I doubt Terry will average 4.3TO/g but because of his rebounding and his steals he makes an extra 1.62(adjusted) possessions more for the team than Nash did. Since he is making those extra possessions, he could blow them as well, but hopefully he will not.

That isn't calculating that hypothetical mixed shots that Terry may force if he lives up to his hype as a defender.

I don't agree that he can blow the 1.62 extra possessions, because Nash is a more efficient shooter as well. I also will be very surprised if Terry gets alot of rebounds here. Terry is going to have to be well above average as a defender to be considered an upgrade.