Fire Kidd

[JustJay]

Not trying to make excuses for this team but look at the Clippers they got Kawhi and Paul George and have had good players around them pretty much at all times and they have reached the same amount of WCFs as us 1 time.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by JustJay

Not trying to make excuses for this team but look at the Clippers they got Kawhi and Paul George and have had good players around them pretty much at all times and they have reached the same amount of WCFs as us 1 time.

One of their biggest problems is Kawhi doesn't play. No way they can get any consistency with his BS load management.

[DIRK LEGIONS]

Originally Posted by JustJay

Not trying to make excuses for this team but look at the Clippers they got Kawhi and Paul George and have had good players around them pretty much at all times and they have reached the same amount of WCFs as us 1 time.

Doc Riveers wasted so many good clipper teams with his shitty coaching.

Same, thing here with Kidd.
But LUKA unlike dirk.who was loyal and stayed all those yrs is not gonna waste his prime with mavericks. Cuban and FO are on a clock and I believe by 2024/25 season if things don't progress LUKA gone either to LA or NY to get more brand recognition for his name and better chance at title.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by DIRK LEGIONS

Doc Riveers wasted so many good clipper teams with his shitty coaching.

Same, thing here with Kidd.
But LUKA unlike dirk.who was loyal and stayed all those yrs is not gonna waste his prime with mavericks. Cuban and FO are on a clock and I believe by 2024/25 season if things don't progress LUKA gone either to LA or NY to get more brand recognition for his name and better chance at title.

Dirk?s loyalty enabled the incompetence of the front office

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Dirk?s loyalty enabled the incompetence of the front office

Agreed, and that's why it pissed me off even more when Cuban brought Dirk and other 2011ers in to shield the new coaching/GM hire. Can't be mad at Cuban if Dirk approves!

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Even Tim Cato gets it. This is what I was trying to explain to saclare.

https://twitter.com/DylanDuell/statu...05778106433538

[saclare]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Even Tim Cato gets it. This is what I was trying to explain to saclare.

https://twitter.com/DylanDuell/statu...05778106433538

Nothing revolutionary there...must be easy to be a Mavs writer.

I've said my piece. We won the damn game. I've championed for more Hardy PT, just in a sensible manner.

[JustJay]

We're the #4 seed now, 3.5 games behind #1 seed.

We lost to the Bucks by 1 point, we lost to the Cavs by 1 point, we lost to the Nuggets by 1 point and we lost to the Suns by 2 points in the opener. If we had won all those games we'd be #1 seed right now.

Of course Luka deserves the lionshare of the credit not Kidd, but that's how close we are to being the #1 seed in the West.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by JustJay

We're the #4 seed now, 3.5 games behind #1 seed.

We lost to the Bucks by 1 point, we lost to the Cavs by 1 point, we lost to the Nuggets by 1 point and we lost to the Suns by 2 points in the opener. If we had won all those games we'd be #1 seed right now.

Of course Luka deserves the lionshare of the credit not Kidd, but that's how close we are to being the #1 seed in the West.

We'd probably be the 1 seed had Wood started from the beginning.

[JustJay]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

We'd probably be the 1 seed had Wood started from the beginning.

I know you think that's Kidds fault and maybe it is but I suspect it might have been Cuban. Can't prove it though.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by JustJay

I know you think that's Kidds fault and maybe it is but I suspect it might have been Cuban. Can't prove it though.

But what reason would Cuban do that other than a futile attempt to save money on a contract? Not really seeing that.

[JustJay]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But what reason would Cuban do that other than a futile attempt to save money on a contract? Not really seeing that.

I'm not talking about saving money, I'm talking about starting his pal Powell.

[Dallas41]

I was never aboard with the Kidd firing group.

Someone posted the games that dallas lost being 1 point games and blaming Kidd.

But in reality I'm pretty sure you can also say FT shooting probably hurt this team more than Kidd did in most of those games.

Kidd didn't make THJ or Luka clank FT's late in that Bucks game.

We can agree to disagree with his handling of Wood. But I've had no issues with Kidd demanding Wood to be better on defense. Sure, we can say well Powell sucks on defense and still plays.

Wood is more athletic than Powell and has more length. Sometimes you have to be harder on your best players in order to get maimum defensive effort especially since the dude coasted in Houston and defense wasn't a priority for that team.

I trust Kidd in the fact that he needed Wood to buy in before the playoffs and show consistent effort.

Team started like 13-17 last year and 14-16 this year but Kidd for the 2nd straight year started to get the team going in the right direction after 30 games again.

I think some of you are too harsh on him still bringing up his failures in Milwaukee or elsewhere.

Those years have nothing to do with Dallas....

Hell based on his previous coaching stops and the perception of him the Mavs on paper shouldn't have made it to the WCF's.

I also don't think Kidd is responsible to assembling the roster. That is on Cuban not Kidd.

Last year I gave Kidd about B grade for coaching and this year I think he's still around a B grade.

Considering he's coaching a team that gets beats up on the boards nightly and have to rely on inconsistent guys like THJ, Bullock and Powell he's done a solid job.

Luka isn't the greatest defender but he try's more under Kidd than he did at any other time here.

The team still needs a solid rebounding big man as a small move. They need a nice 2nd option as a bigger move (hopefully Lavine).

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I was never aboard with the Kidd firing group.

Someone posted the games that dallas lost being 1 point games and blaming Kidd.

But in reality I'm pretty sure you can also say FT shooting probably hurt this team more than Kidd did in most of those games.

Kidd didn't make THJ or Luka clank FT's late in that Bucks game.

We can agree to disagree with his handling of Wood. But I've had no issues with Kidd demanding Wood to be better on defense. Sure, we can say well Powell sucks on defense and still plays.

Wood is more athletic than Powell and has more length. Sometimes you have to be harder on your best players in order to get maimum defensive effort especially since the dude coasted in Houston and defense wasn't a priority for that team.

I trust Kidd in the fact that he needed Wood to buy in before the playoffs and show consistent effort.

Team started like 13-17 last year and 14-16 this year but Kidd for the 2nd straight year started to get the team going in the right direction after 30 games again.

I think some of you are too harsh on him still bringing up his failures in Milwaukee or elsewhere.

Those years have nothing to do with Dallas....

Hell based on his previous coaching stops and the perception of him the Mavs on paper shouldn't have made it to the WCF's.

I also don't think Kidd is responsible to assembling the roster. That is on Cuban not Kidd.

Last year I gave Kidd about B grade for coaching and this year I think he's still around a B grade.

Considering he's coaching a team that gets beats up on the boards nightly and have to rely on inconsistent guys like THJ, Bullock and Powell he's done a solid job.

Luka isn't the greatest defender but he try's more under Kidd than he did at any other time here.

The team still needs a solid rebounding big man as a small move. They need a nice 2nd option as a bigger move (hopefully Lavine).

I was on board with Kidd from the start. We'll, I didn't have a problem with him like some did, and was willing to give him a shot. I would have graded him an A last season. He surpassed anything I thought he would accomplish.

This season has turned around a bit lately along with a more evened out West conf. I give him a C- for the botched lineups and rotations and being forced to start Wood. I can't give him credit for that as if he had some master plan to prime him on the bench for 20+ games. He would still be coming off the bench if we were full strength and he might be dumb enough to change it back when a few guys return.

FO bears blame too with the roster build. Which is why Kidd doesnt get a worse grade imo. Hopefully they can get a big and Lavine. We need rebounding and we need another legit creator/ scorer who can play both sides a bit.

[mxr2000]

Let's trade Kidd for popovich and some players!

[EricaLubarsky]

Recap: Mavs had 5 seconds left to score 1 point. They ran a play and Washington denied it (ball goes out of bounds). 3 seconds left and Dallas runs the EXACT same play and Washington denies the exact same way.

Ball game. Great work, everyone.

[EricaLubarsky]

Really makes you think how a coach can be this bad and still have a job

Mavs are 2-7
Luka is pissed
Guys can?t play together
There is no late-game play calling
This is at least partially on Kidd

[EricaLubarsky]

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Haha, such a great meme...can use it anywhere.

I would reference all the many things written about Kidd in the past.

Seems like people liked the new things he brought, which were different than Carlisle, but are now missing all the things Carlisle did really well.

That loss was ridiculous, but is it on Kidd, or the players?

There was always going to be an adjustment period with a major roster change.

Are we learning how valuable Kleber is by his absence? And has that value become even higher without DFS and Dinwiddie?

I'm concerned the FO made a major change while ignoring that the Mavs were actually playing quite well until all their defensive players got hurt. And made that change without getting rid of either of their problem contracts. If we're going to call people out, look at the FO.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

Haha, such a great meme...can use it anywhere.

I would reference all the many things written about Kidd in the past.

Seems like people liked the new things he brought, which were different than Carlisle, but are now missing all the things Carlisle did really well.

That loss was ridiculous, but is it on Kidd, or the players?

There was always going to be an adjustment period with a major roster change.

Are we learning how valuable Kleber is by his absence? And has that value become even higher without DFS and Dinwiddie?

I'm concerned the FO made a major change while ignoring that the Mavs were actually playing quite well until all their defensive players got hurt. And made that change without getting rid of either of their problem contracts. If we're going to call people out, look at the FO.

All of the new things Kidd brought have vanished seemingly overnight.

Again, she posted 5 things, which outside of developing Josh Green, he doesn't do well. And then he goes and benches Green for a guy just signed off the buyout. That didn't bother me, but I get why that would irritate people because the Mavs don't seem to have any priorities on how to win. Are they prioritizing Green's development into a serious player or not?

The wishy, washy nature of this team is the demise of it. Plain and simple.

So your argument is that we needed continuity getting our defensive players back, but there really hasn't been any lineup continuity at all regardless of who is hurt or not.

[JustJay]

I feel the same way about Kidd as I do Mike McCarthy or Kellen Moore on the Cowboys. You can fire one of the head clowns sure, but it's still a clown show.

[tap2390]

True, the clown car isn?t empty until Cuban leaves.

[tap2390]

Bump?. Arguably the worst coached game of the season by any coach?

[Simon2]

When Kidd says tuff like "I'm not the savior here. I'm watching just like you guys, and as a team, we gotta mature, and we've got a lot of new bodies coming back, and we gotta grow up if we want to win a championship.? It sounds like he is doing the same stuff as you and me. When the Mavs are outscored in the paint 62-32, obviously, the Mavs need a rim protector but never even gave Javale a look. Which part of the team needs to mature? He ain?t playing rookies anyway. Is he talking about complaining to the refs? That?s not why the Mavs lost. When the Lakers were going on a run, did he even call a timeout? Kinda getting tired of Kidd deflecting blame here. Even Luka and Kyrie say it was their fault. The coach though throws them under the bus. No wonder players hate him in their second year.

[EricaLubarsky]

Coaches do five things:

1) Get guys to play together/play at their peak
2) Manage rotations
3) Draw up plays
4) Manage timeouts
5) Develop talent

Can anyone here say that Kidd has done one of those things well?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Coaches do five things:

1) Get guys to play together/play at their peak
2) Manage rotations
3) Draw up plays
4) Manage timeouts
5) Develop talent

Can anyone here say that Kidd has done one of those things well?

Absolutely fn not. He is ass at every single one of those things. I'm glad RC is gone but now he has crashed and burned and we need him out too. Kidd has done this to himself starting in the offseason.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Kidd has lost his mind, and I'm not saying that as some joke. All season long, he has been saying stuff like he isn't coach of the team. Wrong meds or something, but it's pretty frightening.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Kidd has lost his mind, and I'm not saying that as some joke. All season long, he has been saying stuff like he isn't coach of the team. Wrong meds or something, but it's pretty frightening.

He said what? I haven't heard that. I don't doubt it though. Dudes not head coach material. He is playing fn checkers and this is the highest level of chess. Cuban needs to have a come to Jesus meeting with him. He just doesn't have the balls to do what must be done.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

He said what? I haven't heard that. I don't doubt it though. Dudes not head coach material. He is playing fn checkers and this is the highest level of chess. Cuban needs to have a come to Jesus meeting with him. He just doesn't have the balls to do what must be done.

He has said stuff like he isn't the one who controls lineups. I don't know if it's a joke or not, but it's often perplexing like he talks as if he isn't the one who makes the coaching decisions.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

That is all.

Fuck this clown.

He gets worse every second season he survives with a team because being a douche bag quip guy doesn?t make for good coaching.

He goes or I do

Well, guess we'll be seeing you around then. :-)

[Simon2]

Of course, there is continuity. Its just the wrong people.

[Melonhead]

was irrationally hoping I would wake up this morning and see that Kidd had been fired...

Just laughing at the maturity comment when you have Kyrie Irving, Luka, Powell, Bullock, THJ. He literally doesnt know how to talk about basketball, and Bucks fans on reddit were pointing out he said this maturity stuff sooo much when coaching them.

I doubt Cuban will do it with 20 games left in the season getting ready for playoffs, but man I want Dantoni

[saclare]

I'm going to give this all about 10 more games. In that period, you have a fairly cushioned schedule with 4 more straight at home and ideally Kleber coming back into the fold.

One of the primary things I better see is the removal of Frank from the rotation. I think I align mostly with the poster who mentioned the wishy/washy nature of these rotations. Yea, I totally get missing players and adding some via trade will do that. However, this was occurring even before all of that and the guy in charge of the lineups and playing time has delivered inconsistent messaging.

Why the fuck Frank is out there in the 3rd or 4th to last possession is beyond me. You could convince me (barely at this point) of minutes earlier in the game, but good god, when the game is coming down to its last minutes, it's pretty fucking obvious the best players should be in the game. It took that one possession to realize it and correct the 5 in, but it cost an easy two points.

The end of game management is still way off. I hate that we now have a new excuse with Kyrie being in the fold. But again, it doesn't matter who the fuck the five are out on the floor, you should have at least 2-3 bread and butter plays that fit most scenarios (where the ball is coming out, time on the clock, etc.). It doesn't seem like that's the case.

The can Kidd and let Sweeney cook idea has been creeping in my head. At the same time, the hard ball that Kidd can play here might be the only chance at finally convincing Luka to shut the fuck up and play basketball. His insistent whining has even worn on me and I'm one of his biggest fans. It's just simply not pleasant to watch and has become ever increasingly obvious that it is hurting the team. We talk about how Wood gives up as much on D as he gives on O, Luka continues to eat into his production with the bitching and moaning and I can't help but start to think that rubs off on his teammates in addition to them having to constantly play 5v4 ball on defense.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by saclare

The can Kidd and let Sweeney cook idea has been creeping in my head. At the same time, the hard ball that Kidd can play here might be the only chance at finally convincing Luka to shut the fuck up and play basketball. His insistent whining has even worn on me and I'm one of his biggest fans. It's just simply not pleasant to watch and has become ever increasingly obvious that it is hurting the team. We talk about how Wood gives up as much on D as he gives on O, Luka continues to eat into his production with the bitching and moaning and I can't help but start to think that rubs off on his teammates in addition to them having to constantly play 5v4 ball on defense.

This is exactly why Cuban/Nico/JKidd should have signed Dragic. I believe he would help Luka with his incessant whining and late game judgment on shot selection. Dragic would have had far more positive impact than Frank/Pinson. Unfortunately, this is only one small blunder amongst numerous that this MBT has made in the past year. Oh - and while Kidd's post game interview might have been indirectly calling out Luka, it was not only embarrassing but should also disqualify him from ever coaching in the NBA. Coaches coach. They motivate. They don't watch the game as a fan. What an idiot. I put that interview right up there with Rondo's antics in the Mavericks Hall of Shame. Seriously, Cuban should have fired him first thing this morning. If he is not fired soon, then Cuban and Nico are saying it is OK to have a coach who doesn't coach.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

This is exactly why Cuban/Nico/JKidd should have signed Dragic. I believe he would help Luka with his incessant whining and late game judgment on shot selection. Dragic would have had far more positive impact than Frank/Pinson. Unfortunately, this is only one small blunder amongst numerous that this MBT has made in the past year. Oh - and while Kidd's post game interview might have been indirectly calling out Luka, it was not only embarrassing but should also disqualify him from ever coaching in the NBA. Coaches coach. They motivate. They don't watch the game as a fan. What an idiot. I put that interview right up there with Rondo's antics in the Mavericks Hall of Shame. Seriously, Cuban should have fired him first thing this morning. If he is not fired soon, then Cuban and Nico are saying it is OK to have a coach who doesn't coach.

I've had some back and forth with someone on Twitter about the firing of JKidd. They insist that Luka and Kyrie like Kidd so Cuban can't/wont/shouldnt fire him.

I don't agree with that take. I'm not even convinced they would do a lot to save Kidd if he were on the chopping block even if they did "like" him. Besides, Kyrie may not even be here next season. There's actually a good chance he's gone. Wood is almost surely gone....because of Kidd. If Luka likes Kidd, we will see how much he likes him after we lose both Wood and Kyrie.

Piling up loses will cause enough animosity to kill the player - coach good vibes. Especially when it largely is due to roster mismanagement.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

https://twitter.com/MavsDJR/status/1630194035410231302

[Melonhead]

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2023/2...ut-they-should

Great article on Kidd as a coach.

"When Kidd publicly equivocates his role to that of a glorified spectator, he abdicates his functionality as head coach. His assertion that because he is not playing on the floor he thereby cannot impact the outcome of the game or share in the success or failure is beyond ludicrous.

Kidd?s placidity extends to his assessment of the Mavericks? late-game bubbles and stumbles this season. When asked about the trend of miscues he responded, ?I?m glad it's happening during the season and not during the playoffs." He went on to characterize this most recent folly as a factor of unfamiliarity between Luka Doncic and new addition Kyrie Irving. The concern here is that all season long the Mavericks have had one option for last-possession scenarios. Before the trade, it was a Doncic step-back off a high screen, and after the trade, it is a two-man game between Doncic and Irving which relies on improvisational chemistry the duo clearly has not established yet. Why not employ some misdirection to what the entire arena is expecting? Why not have a half dozen set plays to call on so that the scouting process is a bit more complicated? Why not involve the other three players as more than department store mannequins spacing the floor? Instead, Kidd relies on his All-Star backcourt to figure it out on the fly and sidesteps the notion that a head coach can leverage their experience and creativity to guide the team through coinflip moments.

Perhaps most damaging is Kidd?s assertion that the team lacks maturity and needs to grow up. In totality, this is not a young team. The only two Maverick players with a significant role under the age of 30 are superstar Luka Doncic and the emerging Josh Green."

The final line from the article is succinct: "What is the point of Jason Kidd?"

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2023/2...ut-they-should

Great article on Kidd as a coach.

"When Kidd publicly equivocates his role to that of a glorified spectator, he abdicates his functionality as head coach. His assertion that because he is not playing on the floor he thereby cannot impact the outcome of the game or share in the success or failure is beyond ludicrous.

Kidd?s placidity extends to his assessment of the Mavericks? late-game bubbles and stumbles this season. When asked about the trend of miscues he responded, ?I?m glad it's happening during the season and not during the playoffs." He went on to characterize this most recent folly as a factor of unfamiliarity between Luka Doncic and new addition Kyrie Irving. The concern here is that all season long the Mavericks have had one option for last-possession scenarios. Before the trade, it was a Doncic step-back off a high screen, and after the trade, it is a two-man game between Doncic and Irving which relies on improvisational chemistry the duo clearly has not established yet. Why not employ some misdirection to what the entire arena is expecting? Why not have a half dozen set plays to call on so that the scouting process is a bit more complicated? Why not involve the other three players as more than department store mannequins spacing the floor? Instead, Kidd relies on his All-Star backcourt to figure it out on the fly and sidesteps the notion that a head coach can leverage their experience and creativity to guide the team through coinflip moments.

Perhaps most damaging is Kidd?s assertion that the team lacks maturity and needs to grow up. In totality, this is not a young team. The only two Maverick players with a significant role under the age of 30 are superstar Luka Doncic and the emerging Josh Green."

The final line from the article is succinct: "What is the point of Jason Kidd?"

Kidd has made the perfect case for why there is no point to him being coach. He's just a fan that gets to sit on the bench.

Mavs should sign Noel + Wall and waive Pinson and Frank. That would be an upgrade. Might not really move the needle much, but this is the right time to shed those who will not make any on-court contribution and add a couple who you could trust to play 10-12 mpg.

Start Noel, Wood, and Green. Bring Kleber, Morris, Holiday, Bullock, Hardaway, and Wall off the bench. McGee, Powell, Bertans, and Hardy make up the deep bench. That gives you 15 solid players to mix and match depending on match-ups. Not saying that's a championship team, but it would be much better than the current options. If Noel is a bust, then start Kleber and bring in Noel with a second unit.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

https://twitter.com/MavsDJR/status/1630194035410231302

How'd that go for him in Milwaukee?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Well the entire fan base has turned on him minus a few holdouts, so it would puzzle me greatly that Cuban wouldn't care about that. If Kidd keeps Kyrie, then I get giving him til the next deadline. But as I mentioned, that is exactly the Nate McMillan deadline after they went to the ECF. If Kidd sucks past that point, and isn't fired, then we're completely doomed as a franchise.

Biggest issue is Nico and Kidd have a close relationship...Cuban too. But Nico doesn't seem to be afraid to make bold moves....