Kelvin Cato

[kg_veteran]

Would you make this trade?

Daniels/Bradley for Cato

I think I would.

[aexchange]

i wouldn't do that.

i probably would do a

daniels/bradley for cato/nelson deal. but orlando wouldn't [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[grndmstr_c]

Kelvin's a fine rebounder and shot-blocker with consistently good defensive +/- stats. And he actually flashed some improved offense last year, posting a significantly improved jump-shooting fg% relative to the previous two years (from 82games), and the best free-throw shooting of his career as well. Giving up Daniels to get him makes me a little squeamish, so I can't say I'd pull the trigger, but I'd certainly feel quite comfortable with a frontcourt rotation of Damp/Cato/Nowitzki/Van Horn.

[grndmstr_c]

As long as we're on the subject of Orlando, would anybody have any interest in Turkoglu? At first glance he might seem to be redundant with KVH, but whereas Keith's best position at this stage of his career is probably PF, Turkoglu's more of a SF, IMO. Anybody have a feel for what Orlando thinks of him after having him for a year?

[dalmations202]

Turkoglu is too close to KVH. Not enough difference. He doesn't beat out Howard for the 3 outright.

Cato -- that would take some thought. I have never thought of him as an athletic shotblocking center. Maybe I should take a better look though.

[grndmstr_c]

Turkoglu is too close to KVH. Not enough difference. He doesn't beat out Howard for the 3 outright.

Their (Hedo and KVH) games are no question similar, but they still play their best at different positions - and it's hard to have too much redundancy of the skill set: "6'10", and can floor the ball or make a high percentage from downtown", so long as you can play each of them at the same time without playing anyone out of position. You can do that with those two. As for beating out Josh, that's of course not going to happen, but I was thinking more along the lines of either starting him at the 3 alongside Josh at the 2, or bringing him off the bench behind Josh and whoever the starting 2 is. Thing with Turk is, I have a hard time imagining how we'd get him. I don't think Orlando would take Marquis straight up, and Stack makes too much for that one to work unless somebody else got thrown in for salary matching purposes. I'll be honest, though, the prospect of a trade centered on Turk and Stack appeals to me.

[Bayliss]

Kelvin Cato is intriguing. He really helped Yao out year before last in "protecting" him. He would be a very nice backup to Dampier.

[The Miles]

I would do it in a heartbeat. I am a big Kelvin Cato fan and I think Dampier/Cato gives us 48 mpg of quality.

I would do that QUICK.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: The Miles
I would do it in a heartbeat. I am a big Kelvin Cato fan and I think Dampier/Cato gives us 48 mpg of quality.

I would do that QUICK.

Same here. I think Cato is one of the best post defenders in the league, a good shotblocker, and could combine with Damp to really lock down the middle and secure the glass.

GMC - I can see why you'd be hesitant to give up Marquis, but I think any time you can move a 6'6" SG who's not even starting for you and won't next year and get a quality 4/5 who could give you 20-30 mpg and lock down the middle of your D, you do it without blinking.

[Misfit Mav]

I like it. I would like to keep Daniels, but we have so many swingmen he's expendable. I really like the idea of some strong defensive role-players on the bench.

[PepperTheMavsFan41]

I dont see why Orl trades their starting center for that.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: PepperTheMavsFan41
I dont see why Orl trades their starting center for that.

I don't know if they do, either, but Cato has one more year left on his deal and he isn't guaranteed to re-sign. They might get more value for his expiring contract. Then again, they might not.

[chumdawg]

Would you guys do Harris/Bradley for Nelson/Cato? That would probably get it done, from Orlando's perspective.

[#1MavsFan]

Originally posted by: chumdawg
Would you guys do Harris/Bradley for Nelson/Cato? That would probably get it done, from Orlando's perspective.

Not ready to give up DH unless we get a superstar caliber player back and thats pretty unlikely.

[The Miles]

No I wouldn't trade DH in that type of deal.

[freestyle]

Marquis had a bad year due to seriously twisting his ankle, the appendicitis, and then trying to reintegrate himself back into a line-up which had solidified without him. His stock is low at the moment. I expect him to play much better next year. He showed uncommon poise and scoring ability as a rookie and can play positions 1-3. This trade might not look very good at all in a couple of years. At the very least, he has enough tatoos to raise the street credibility for the entire team. ;-)

[ddh33]

Nope. And it doesn't even take much thought.

I think a lot of folks are writing off Daniels a little too soon for one thing. For another, I don't think Cato has ever been or will ever be a difference maker. Besides that, he's a headcase.

[grndmstr_c]

GMC - I can see why you'd be hesitant to give up Marquis, but I think any time you can move a 6'6" SG who's not even starting for you and won't next year and get a quality 4/5 who could give you 20-30 mpg and lock down the middle of your D, you do it without blinking.

A lot of my reservations come from asset management considerations. When I look at the roster that results from doing that trade, and look in the free agent market at the SG's and SF's and even third string points that would be available for the MLE or under I can definitely see value in making the deal. I just tend to think that Marquis' value (and level of play) will rebound next year so rushing to get him out of here when a little patience might bring better returns, either in terms of his contributions on the court or in a trade, could be a mistake. Also, Stack's value is almost certainly higher than Marquis', and doesn't really have any more growth potential, and if the team could find a Stack trade that brought a better return, and then complemented that move with the kind of SG/SF signing they would've looked to make to replace Quis, that would probably be my preferred course. All extremely hypothetical, or course, and if this were in fact the best deal the Mavs could find I'd probably be on board with it - the team would be better for it.

[kg_veteran]

Also, Stack's value is almost certainly higher than Marquis', and doesn't really have any more growth potential, and if the team could find a Stack trade that brought a better return, and then complemented that move with the kind of SG/SF signing they would've looked to make to replace Quis, that would probably be my preferred course.

Mine too. This was just a hypothetical trade scenario, but if a better option (like trading Stackhouse for equal or better value) was there, I'd take that, too.

[grndmstr_c]

KG, I've been thinking about this move in relation to the various free agent 4/5's whose names have been tossed around that Dallas could potentially sign outright. Just curious which non-first choice type guys (ie., not Gad, who seems to be at or near the top of most people's list of remotely realistic names) you'd consider good enough fits to prefer signing them using some portion of the MLE instead of making this trade. Say for example Chris Andersen (who I'm assuming will opt out of the final year and will almost certainly be available for a portion of the MLE). Would you rather have him and Daniels or Cato? Or what about a guy like Reggie Evans, who's pretty undersized for the 5 and doesn't provide any shotblocking?

[dirno2000]

Would you guys do Harris/Bradley for Nelson/Cato? That would probably get it done, from Orlando's perspective.

I doubt the Magis would do that. Devin was the higher pick but Nelson had some really nice games down the stretch, highlighted a by a 30 point 8 assist 5 rebound 5 steals game against the Pistons. I had him as the 2nd rated PG on my draft board behind Livingston so he was a good value pick.

As much as we need some size and athleticism behind Dirk and Damp, I'd also be hesitant to trade Quis. He makes bad decisions and he may be the worst shooting 2-guard in the league, but his overall skill set is just too tantalizing. I love his court vision and his ability to get to and score in the paint. Cato isn’t good enough to make me give up on Marquis at this point.

[kg_veteran]

Just curious which non-first choice type guys (ie., not Gad, who seems to be at or near the top of most people's list of remotely realistic names) you'd consider good enough fits to prefer signing them using some portion of the MLE instead of making this trade.

This, to me, is the obvious question. Can you get a backup center you're happy with for the MLE? If so, you probably keep everybody you have except for Armstrong and Henderson and just add the backup center. If not, you probably trade either Stackhouse or Daniels in a package for a backup center and then look to replace Stackhouse and Daniels with some portion of the MLE. I personally think the list of available FA shooting guards is deeper, which means it might be easier to try and trade for a center and then pick up a FA shooting guard.

As far as guys I think would be good enough fits, I really don't see many on the FA list that are both a) likely to accept the MLE in Dallas and b) good enough to fill the role. I looked at the list before posting, though, and I have to admit that other than obvious guys like Kwame Brown, Dan Gadzuric, and Sam Dalembert (all of which are restricted FAs and would likely require a sign-and-trade even if their teams didn't choose to keep them), the main name that really sticks out to me is Dikembe Mutombo. I bet he'll re-sign in Houston, but he'd be a GREAT fit as backup center in Dallas.

Say for example Chris Andersen (who I'm assuming will opt out of the final year and will almost certainly be available for a portion of the MLE). Would you rather have him and Daniels or Cato?

I'm not really high on Chris Andersen. It's easy to put up decent looking numbers on a bad team. So I'd probably rather have Cato.

Or what about a guy like Reggie Evans, who's pretty undersized for the 5 and doesn't provide any shotblocking?

I actually really like Reggie Evans, but I think that bringing him in to be the backup center would be roughly equivalent to bringing Danny Fortson back to be the backup center. In other words, I'm not high on that idea, either.

[grndmstr_c]

My perception of Andersen has been that he's one of those guys who has these very raw gifts that allow him to get on a basketball court at the pro level, but don't really translate into winning baskteball in anything more than a little-used second string or third string role. In tracking his stats this year, though, I'm more intrigued than I otherwise would have been. Cases in point:

- He's generally been a mediocre +/- backup on bad-to-mediocre teams. This year, though, he was a good +/- guy (+8.1 net) on a bad team.

- His mediocre +/- in the previous two seasons was due to modest defensive improvement with him on the floor combined with a small positive or moderate negative offensive impact. This year, both the defensive and offensive numbers for NO were improved with him on the court.

- All but 2 players on the Hornets had superior +/- ratings when paired with Andersen than they did when he was on the bench.

- The improved +/- was reflected in some noteworthy personal stat improvement. His jump shooting percentage was up to 33% (decent enough for a backup center, and better than the 29.5% he posted in 03/04 and the 20% he put up in 02/03), and free throw percentage showed similar improvement (up to 69% from the mid-high 50's the previous two years).

Bottom line, while some part of me would be a little disappointed if we went into next season with his addition being the only significant roster alteration, I'm not sure that would be such a bad thing.

[bo319]

Reggie Evans is not the 2nd coming of Danny Fortson. Unlike Fortson Evans can move his feet on D. He would be a nice compliment to have for when we play teams that go small. We all know Dirk hates to play C but he is going to have to realize that he is a 7 ft 250 lb man and while thats not Shaq like it is bigger than most C's in the league. Dirk was the defensive problem in the Phoenix series as he couldn't guard anybody as they got physical with him. Evans would throw some of that physicallity back at them. Anderson and Cato would too although neither are the rebounder that Evans is.

[kg_veteran]

Reggie Evans is not the 2nd coming of Danny Fortson. Unlike Fortson Evans can move his feet on D

That's true. I wasn't being fair to poor Reggie. He can move his feet, but he can't block shots, or really even challenge them. With him anchoring the middle, we'd have about as much of an interior presence as we do with Alan Henderson, except that Reggie will commit harder fouls.

[sike]

except that Reggie will commit harder fouls.

every sundae needs it's cherry. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

one thing I do want to see is a Mavs player who commit the tough foul....someone other than Stack. An Evans type would fill that bill.

[Pirate]

Re Cato, seems I recall past quotes from Cuban, Nellie, Donnie, or several of the above that the Mavs would NEVER be open to dealing for him. Something about EXTREME character issues in his past that makes him of no interest whatsoever, though they got vague and didnt elaborate in the interview. From trying to chase it online, I think what is covered up is that he murdered someone or was mixed up in a murder, with not enough evidence to convict him, something like that.