How do the minutes shake up - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

grbh · 01-09-2003, 11:39 AM

Assuming everyone is healthy, how do the minutes end up with the addition of Rigaudeau.

Lets imagine it is 20 games down the road, and Rigaudeau is now comfortable with the Mavs and the NBA.

PG: Nash 28, Mick 20
SG: Fin 35, Rigaudau 6, Griffen 7
SF: Najera 26, Rigaudeau 9, Griffen 9, Fin 2, Dirk 2
PF: Dirk 35, Raef 13
C: Bradley 30, raef 18

Bench left: Popeye, EE, AJ will take a few minutes in blowouts ect.

Maringa · 01-09-2003, 11:47 AM

What about Walt Williams and Bell? I think Eschmeyer, Avery Johnson and Tariq will remain in perpetual IR. When Najera becomes healthy, Avery will switch with him. I think the bench warmers will be Bell and Williams, with Williams getting more minutes than Bell. I imagine Rigo won't get any significant minutes until he has been with the team at least 2 weeks.

LRB · 01-09-2003, 11:49 AM

grbh: Don't really care about the minutes so long as the Big 3 aren't getting overplayed. I think with Nellie it will be just which player he thinks will best fit into the game and the matchups involved. But hopefully we will see much less smallball and more tallball.

Chiwas · 01-09-2003, 11:55 AM

Reading you two posts, I see a loaded team at last. Only Popeye looks weak, and it isn't bad at all.

The only figure I didn´t like (and we have to add, Walt and Raja), was the 20 minutes for NVE. I like more Finley when plays the position.

Edit: I hope the tall ball lessen the NVE's minutes. He is worth but not that much.

grbh · 01-09-2003, 11:59 AM

Forgot about Raja, and Williams. They will get a few but if Rigaudeau is a player his emmergence along with a healthy Najera will leave them on the bench quite a bit.

Agree I don't want to see the big 3 play too many minutes either, and a healthy Najera, Griffen, and Rigaudeau can help with that. (At least with Fin, and more imprtantly Nash)

Murphy3 · 01-09-2003, 11:59 AM

Rig will play more minutes than that when he becomes comfortable.. look for him to actually run some point.
it has been speculated that nellie might actually be getting a little tired of the huge defensive liabilities that occurs with nash and NVE on the court at the same time.

i would expect rig to take some minutes away from nash, nve, finley, williams and najera when he's back

when najera comes back..no way he logs 26 per game
if raef is playing well, no way bradley logs 30..probably 20-25 on average

LRB · 01-09-2003, 12:05 PM

<< if raef is playing well, no way bradley logs 30..probably 20-25 on average >>

Don't know about that one Murph. I'm sure nellie has seen the stats that the Mavs are 26-0 when Shawn gets a double-double during the the last 3 seasons. Really hard to get a double-double on 20-25 minutes a game. I really think it is Shawn's play and not Raef's that will make the difference with Shawn's minutes. Hopefully if Raef is playing well we will see more of the Shawn/Raef/Dirk lineup.

Murphy3 · 01-09-2003, 12:10 PM

LR8, we're talking about averages here..yes, there will be games where he plays 30+ minutes, of course.

Let's remember that he's averaging 26.5 minutes per game..most of that is with raef either being injured or playing piss poor for much of the season. there's no reason to expect bradley's minutes to go significantly up from 26.5 minutes per game..more likely, if raef has a resurgence, bradley's minutes will take a slight dip.

and let's be honest, nellie isn't gonna want to play bradley 30 minutes a game.. he wants bradley fresh come playoff time. just like last night, he could have played bradley if need be, but he chose to give him the night off with his slight injury.

this will continue.. you will see raef logging more minutes in games that aren't close with bradley getting pine time to rest.

now, if the mavs were in a situation where EVERY game came down to the wire over the next however many games, maybe bradley would average closer to 20 minutes per game..but that's not gonna happen

grbh · 01-09-2003, 12:13 PM

As far as Bradley, yea that is probably a little high, hard to tell though it depends on matchups. I give bradley at least 25 a night though.

Najera was averaging 25.4 minutes before he was hurt so 26 is not too big a stretch I don't think. Might be 22, 24 though.

How many minutes do you see Rigaudeau getting Murphy?

I know there has been talk about him playing point forward, but the guy consistently has averaged about 1.5 assists a game in Europe. Also he has to overome playing in a new more physical league, living in america, and I don't know how well he speaks English. All these can be issues.

Murphy3 · 01-09-2003, 12:18 PM

according to nellie, he does speak english.. he also plans on using him as a point forward as well
Rig isn't coming to the U.S. to average 6-7 minutes a game. Norm and nellie speculated that when he comes to the mavs and gets comfortable.. he's the 8th man on this team..behind the starting five and nve and raef.

with the addition of rig..and with bradley playing so well.. and with possibly raef playing well, there won't be that many minutes to go around for najera..

LRB · 01-09-2003, 12:29 PM

Murphy: I understand that these are average minutes, and Shawn may not get 30 every night. But I would like to see him getting at least 25. The Mavs play tremendously better with the Mantis in than with him out IMO. I hope Raef continues to improve, but even then he's no Shawn Bradley.

But I do want the Mantis fresh for the playoffs. So I was really glad Nellie held him out last night. But I think Shawn can average 25-30 minutes a game and still be fresh for the playoffs. More importantly I hope we can see more of the Dirk/Shawn/Raef lineup which will cause both Shawn's and Raef's minutes to go up.

As far as Rigaudeau, I hope that he is not expecting x number of minutes when playing for this team. I don't want to see Nellie having to force him into a game just to keep him happy with his minutes. If he earns the playing, time great. Ohterwise, I don't want to see him getting minutes to feed his ego.

grbh · 01-09-2003, 12:31 PM

Well I had Rig down for 15 a night in my breakdown. I can't see him playing much more than that. I also believe Najera will be playing more than Rig.

Of course it is all speculation by both of us, cause we've never even see the guy play.

MavKikiNYC · 01-09-2003, 12:33 PM

What about Bradley playin the first 8 minutes of the game, the first 8 minutes of the 3rd quarter, the last 8 minutes of the game as necessary to protect a lead or get defensive stops; and additional minutes as necessary due to fouls, fatigue or injury?

Would still like to see Nelson start imposing HIS team's talent, HIS team's strengths, and HIS team's matchup advantages rather than reaction to what other teams throw at the Mavs.

kg_veteran · 01-09-2003, 12:38 PM

My view of the minutes distribution once everyone is healthy and comfortable:

LaFrentz (28 min) - Bradley (20 min)
Nowitzki (38 min) - Najera (14 min)
Griffin (15 min) - Williams (20 min)
Finley (35 min) - Rigadeaux (20 min)
Nash (30 min) - Van Exel (20 min)

Murph, I also heard Nellie talking about making Rigadeaux a point forward. He's obviously tired of getting abused on defense and on the boards in a small ball alignment. Or is he? Hmmm...

LRB · 01-09-2003, 12:45 PM

<< What about Bradley playin the first 8 minutes of the game, the first 8 minutes of the 3rd quarter, the last 8 minutes of the game as necessary to protect a lead or get defensive stops; and additional minutes as necessary due to fouls, fatigue or injury?

Would still like to see Nelson start imposing HIS team's talent, HIS team's strengths, and HIS team's matchup advantages rather than reaction to what other teams throw at the Mavs. >>

Kiki: I like your Bradley plan. That works for me.

Also, like the idea of Nellie forcing our strengths on other teams. I think that fits in with the post Dirk and go to the hot guy arguments. I would like to see us play more tallball also, because I feel that we are much better than a number of teams with our tall frontline and should take advantage of that more.

Chiwas · 01-09-2003, 12:47 PM

<< Would still like to see Nelson start imposing HIS team's talent, HIS team's strengths, and HIS team's matchup advantages rather than reaction to what other teams throw at the Mavs. >>

Would he be able to do that? It'd change the perspective and the image of the team; a proactive team is scarier than a reactive. I´m thinking in SAC, right now. And going a step ahead makes leaders.

jacktruth · 01-09-2003, 12:50 PM

i would expect rig to take some minutes away from nash, nve, finley, williams and najera when he's back

I agree. I also think he will get playing time rather soon. Look how many minutes Wang got, and he couldn't even speak English.

madape · 01-09-2003, 12:51 PM

Don Nelson has gone on record as saying his best lineup statistic-wise, is Nash, Finley, Dirk, Najera, Bradley.

Chiwas · 01-09-2003, 12:58 PM

<< LaFrentz (28 min) - Bradley (20 min)
Nowitzki (38 min) - Najera (14 min)
Griffin (15 min) - Williams (20 min)
Finley (35 min) - Rigadeaux (20 min)
Nash (30 min) - Van Exel (20 min) >>

I have always liked watching Eddie as the Dirk´s replacement. But I can´t forget what a great job he made on Yao, having Dirk behind in that awesome "box and a guy" zone defense altenative.

Also it´s to be taked in account the Nellie´s best roster, just mentioned some days ago: Nash, Finley, Nájera, Nowitzki, Bradley. They have the best numbers together than any other rotation.

Let´s see how quick and well Rigadeau can adapt to the system, and his playing level.

Edit. Oops, I repeated madape, but somehow I changed the SF and PF positions.

OutletPass · 01-09-2003, 01:17 PM

Slap me silly, but after Norm & Nellie, I'm even thinking ahead to next year. I don't know that I've hear Nellie in such a good mood in a while. He also mentioned that Askrabic would "probably" get done this summer and that Sekularic would most likely be ready the following summer.

From the gist of things, Rig is coming to take some minute pressure off of Fin and then Dirk, in that order. Most likely to suffer a decrease will be Walt and to a lesser extent Raja. Murph's post seems to be pretty spot on in terms of where he fits in the rotation and why he's here.

I think that it's almost a dead certainty that we're going to see a lot less of Nash & NVE paired in the backcourt...

Do I hear a "Halleleujah" ?

Murphy3 · 01-09-2003, 05:23 PM

grbh, sorry about that grbh, i actually only saw the 6 minutes ..not the other nine you had at the different position

dude1394 · 01-09-2003, 05:36 PM

I think we will see quite a bit of raef/shawn/dirk on the floor. I expect that steve/nick will swap out completely for each other except for certain times. Rigo will replace finley. Walt will get time as small forward if he can stay healthy, that's debateable right now.

Esch/Popeye/AJ will go on ir, unless TAW shows up, then Esch comes off. Raja/Adrian will get little spot time, raja maybe very little.

grbh · 01-09-2003, 05:42 PM

No problem, that is what i figured. I am excited to see what we have with Rigaudeau

Murphy3 · 01-09-2003, 05:50 PM

don't be so quick to just throw griff into the trash heap pile dude.
he is arguably the best defender of the two and three position on the team..him or bell... nellie is liking running the point through griff as well
no one has quicker hands on the team. finley cannot guard many 2's in the league so griff with his ability to run the point and play defense remains very valuable even if he is nellie's designated whipping boy

Just211 · 01-09-2003, 06:11 PM

Murph, repeat you post, and add RAJA. I don't think he should be thrown to the end of the bench. He brings the same stuff to the table, and possible better D on smaller quicker gaurds. And from some of the posts about the Frnchman, it seems like D is the last thing he offers. ALSO with Nellie, other than the Big 3, you never know who is going to be on the floor, and when.

madape · 01-09-2003, 06:14 PM

Murph - Nellie would like to run the point through Griff, but one of the reasons Rigaudeu is coming is because Griff isn't executing very well. I heard Nelson on Norm's show the other day talking about how he needed more from Griff.

Murphy3 · 01-09-2003, 06:15 PM

i did throw in raja...re-read my post.

and to be honest, the frenchman will probably improve the mavs defense even if he is only a mediocre defender.
the less time the mavs have fin, nash and nve on the court at the same time, the better it is for the mavs defense

Just211 · 01-09-2003, 06:20 PM

my bad Murph, I need to read slower.

I hope the Frenchman brings something postitive to the table, besides shooting. And I hope at some point we stop calling him the "frenchman"

Murphy3 · 01-09-2003, 06:23 PM

well, i've seen his name spelled 4-5 different ways..so, i called him the frenchman because i had forgot how to spell his name for a sec

Just211 · 01-09-2003, 06:33 PM

well, I think if he's a Mav now, he needs a nickname. His name is too hard to spell, and frenchman is corny

any suggestions?

Drbio · 01-09-2003, 06:41 PM

Toast...as in French Taost.
Maybe Fry, but he's too tall.
Braid was silly.
Kiss was too ...well....you know.
Lick, but the Bird comparisons would be confusing.

Pepe le Hoop?

Seriously though....how about Antoine? AR?

Murphy3 · 01-09-2003, 06:43 PM

the flying frenchman
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

dude1394 · 01-09-2003, 09:19 PM

It was painful murph.. I really like griffin a lot. He just seems to be real heady out there. But if he's not starting, I'm not sure how much he gets in. I really think that najera will bust into the starting lineup pretty soon after he gets back, they just won't be able to keep him out.

Then it's
Nick, Shawn/Reaf, Rigeau/Griffin.... Good problems, but if Rigeau is what I hope he is he might get griffs minutes and then we let shawn come in for najera and play real big for a while. Lots and lots of different combinations.

Murphy3 · 01-09-2003, 09:50 PM

najera isn't going to be a full time starter anytime soon in a mavs uniform.. nellie will like to match up too much.
and there will be opponents where the mavs need griffin to match up with someone defensively and he will get the start.

and there will be times where najera doesn't match up well with anyone on the other team and he will likely see limited time.