New Back Up C and possible next moves...

[ballin_boi]

It's in the topic title. Where do we go from here, we gave up our depth for Kidd. We do have some workable pieces.

Clearly Kidd, Dirk and Josh are untouchable, Stack is coming back so I doubt we dump him right away, Jones will retire if we even think about trading him so that leaves us with:

Dampier
J.Terry
Hassell
Fazekas
Barea
Allen
Wright
Juwan
R. Terry
Seibutis

What moves can we make with these to help with our SG, and now C issues.

Current Mavs Line-Up

C - Damp/Juwan Howard/Bass
PF - Dirk/Bass/Juwan Howard
SF - J-Ho/Stack/Jones/Hassell
SG - Jones/Terry/Stack/Hassell
PG - Kidd/Terry/Barea

So how do we fix this? Who should we go for SG or C and who do we give up? How do we restore our depth? Is free agency an option? What do you guys think, post it here.

[darki]

go for Mike Miller with the KvH rights and sign PJ Brown as Backup Center

that would be my dream :P

without a possible next move the Kidd trade make no sense to me, cuze of the lack of a 2nd Option for Damp.

What about Artest ? maybe another option

[chumdawg]

You don't need center depth near as much as you think you do. Dampier has a $70MM contract. It's time he starts earning it. As for who is behind him...who is behind Yao? Who is behind Shaq? Who is behind whoever it is that San Antonio plays at center?

Damp is enough.

Terry becomes your SG extraordinaire, with Kidd next to him. Jones has size if you need it, and Stack provides great punch off the bench.

I don't really see the problem. You do want some depth to get you through the regular season, and hopefully Sebutis and/or Rayshawn Terry could provide that down the road. But for now, I don't see the concern.

[darki]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You don't need center depth near as much as you think you do. Dampier has a $70MM contract. It's time he starts earning it. As for who is behind him...who is behind Yao? Who is behind Shaq? Who is behind whoever it is San Antonio plays at center?

Damp is enough.

If Damp gets into foul trouble, we are pretty much done ...

The combination Damp/Diop was a keyfactor in the matchup with the spurs. Without Diop i see a huge hole on the center position. We need a backup for Damp, else we get detroyed by Duncan/Shaq.

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You don't need center depth near as much as you think you do. Dampier has a $70MM contract. It's time he starts earning it. As for who is behind him...who is behind Yao? Who is behind Shaq? Who is behind whoever it is that San Antonio plays at center?

Damp is enough.

Terry becomes your SG extraordinaire, with Kidd next to him. Jones has size if you need it, and Stack provides great punch off the bench.

I don't really see the problem. You do want some depth to get you through the regular season, and hopefully Sebutis and/or Rayshawn Terry could provide that down the road. But for now, I don't see the concern.

Damp is not enough. Diop was constantly forced in to guard Duncan because Dampier couldn't stay out of foul trouble. Bass would get killed by Duncan as well as Juwan Howard. Amare Stoudemire or Shaq the same story.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Agree with you. We need another center.

The Kidd's trade is great, but we will miss Diop.

[dirt_dobber]

bring in PJ Brown for 3-5 min per qrtr.

[horse900703]

Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl

Agree with you. We need another center.

The Kidd's trade is great, but we will miss Diop.

Diop is not really that good, we have Dampier.
I think he is better~

[Jack.Kerr]

P.J. Brown? P.J. effin' Brown?

Why don't the Mavericks just open up a satellite Medicare benefits administration office at the AA?
DIOP >>>>>> ....brown.

[darki]

Originally Posted by horse900703

Diop is not really that good, we have Dampier.
I think he is better~

hm, u need backup for dampier, thats a fact ...

without a backup we get massacred from duncan/shaq.

[horse900703]

Originally Posted by darki

hm, u need backup for dampier, thats a fact ...

without a backup we get massacred from duncan/shaq.

alright Diop and Dampier who is better.

[Movie Phone]

diop is way better at guarding duncan. dampier gets into foul trouble easily. i mean...both of them are inconsistent. however, usually one of them is atleast playing decent. now we have to put all the center responsibilities on damp and HOPE that he stays consistent and out of foul trouble...i dont like our chances.

[Flacolaco]

This thread =

[horse900703]

Originally Posted by Movie Phone

diop is way better at guarding duncan. dampier gets into foul trouble easily. i mean...both of them are inconsistent. however, usually one of them is atleast playing decent. now we have to put all the center responsibilities on damp and HOPE that he stays consistent and out of foul trouble...i dont like our chances.

but diop cant really Score much...dampier can

[Movie Phone]

that's true..but it still doesnt consider the fact that we are putting most of the defensive burden on dampier. after him, there is practically no one. there has to be something else brewing up for a backup center. i really wish we could keep diop. i dont care about anyone else except him. ager and george can go to hell. im not gonna wait around for two late first rounders to do anything. kidd and harris---thats the trade-off we make. diop is such an IMPORTANT role player

[shaw-xx]

Our Cs both don't score much. You will miss Diop not because of losing his offense. It's about we need another C back up Damp. Or you will see more small ball.

[darki]

Originally Posted by horse900703

alright Diop and Dampier who is better.

well, if damp gets into foul trouble, we are really much done without a backup ...

[Dirkenstien]

Dalmations just posted a great idea in another thread.

Indy has been looking to move O'Neal for Carter and New Jersey has been looking to get expiring contracts while shedding the contracts of Kidd and possibly Carter. If the Kidd deal goes down then Dallas still needs another big to come in an split time with Damp.

Here is his idea:

Indiana trades: J' Oneal
Indiana receives: Carter, Magloire
Why they do it: They've been looking into getting Carter for a while now so this allows them to finally part ways with J'Oneal and get the guy they want. Plus they get Magloire to fill O'Neal's gap.

New Jersey Trades: Kidd, J.O'Neal, Wright, Allen, Magloire
New Jersey receives: Harris, KVH's expiring contract, 3-mil cash, two future first round picks, one future 2 round pick, and expiring contracts for cap filler.

Why they do it: It's obvious. They come out even better than the original proposed Kidd trade because now they get rid of both Carter's AND Kidd's contract while netting their PG of the future, expiring contracts, and picks to build around RJ and Harris.

Dallas Trades: Harris, KVH contract, two future first round picks, one future second round pick, 3 million in cash, and expiring contracts (Diop + whoever else)
Dallas Receives: Kidd, J'Oneal, Allen, Wright.

Why Dallas does it: We get Kidd and replace Diop with J'Oneal who, when healthy, is one of the best low post big men in the game that can both play defense and offense!

Our lineup:

J.O'Neal / Damp / Fazekas
Dirk / Bass / Ju.Howard
Howard / Stackhouse
Jones / Terry / Hassell
Kidd / Barea / Terry

That lineup would make us the favorites to win it all and strike fear into every other team in the NBA.

Get it done Cuban!!!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

J.O'Neal / Damp / Fazekas
Dirk / Bass / Ju.Howard
Howard / Stackhouse
Jones / Terry / Hassell
Kidd / Barea / Terry

I love that lineup, but if it doesn't become part of the ongoing deal quickly, then it will never happen... We get JO by adding the KVH contract & NJ picks up the rest of the tab by unloading Carter - that would make this deal as sweet as the Gasol trade...

Here's to hoping...

[Dirkenstien]

Yeah it really would be a sweet deal. If anyone here has any kind of connection whatsoever to Cuban please send this to him! lol

[mqywaaah]

Props to Dirkenstien! Great idea

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by mqywaaah

Props to Dirkenstien! Great idea

It's actually Dalmations idea. I'm just a big advocate of it!

[DirkFTW]

How much over the cap would we be? If it's in the range of Cuban's dreaded $20 million luxury tax, is JO + Kidd worth cap hell?

EDIT: For the record, I like it in terms of what we give and get. It seems reasonable for NJ and Indy too.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I love that lineup, but if it doesn't become part of the ongoing deal quickly, then it will never happen... We get JO by adding the KVH contract & NJ picks up the rest of the tab by unloading Carter - that would make this deal as sweet as the Gasol trade...

Here's to hoping...

That may not be entirely true. If the Kidd deal goes down as originally proposed then we still have multiple ways to use KVH's expiring contract and don't necessarily need NJ to get O'Neal. Granted, Indiana does have a lot of interest in Carter but you have to wonder whether they would be interested in a KVH + Hassell for J'Oneal deal. That would immediately give them cap-room this summer to start rebuilding with.

But yes, the best chance we have at actually making that deal is if it's part of this NJ-Dallas trade.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

is JO + Kidd worth cap hell?.

Or a better question would be: is cap hell worth a title?

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Or a better question would be: is cap hell worth a title?

Question withdrawn!

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Or a better question would be: is cap hell worth a title?

As long as it is Marks money..........YES

You extend Kidd a year. That means his expires in two. JO's expires in two.

It costs lots of money for two years. Many M$'s. It also gives you the best chance at winning the title, IMO.

In three years Dirks is up, and who knows what level he will be playing at then. So will JHo, and Damps. Terry's goes one more year after that.

Basically you are putting all your eggs into a three year window. If they can't win or at least come close in two, then you have expiring contracts, and you start the rebuilding process.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Dalmations just posted a great idea in another thread.

Indy has been looking to move O'Neal for Carter and New Jersey has been looking to get expiring contracts while shedding the contracts of Kidd and possibly Carter. If the Kidd deal goes down then Dallas still needs another big to come in an split time with Damp.

Here is his idea:

Indiana trades: J' Oneal
Indiana receives: Carter, Magloire
Why they do it: They've been looking into getting Carter for a while now so this allows them to finally part ways with J'Oneal and get the guy they want. Plus they get Magloire to fill O'Neal's gap.

New Jersey Trades: Kidd, J.O'Neal, Wright, Allen, Magloire
New Jersey receives: Harris, KVH's expiring contract, 3-mil cash, two future first round picks, one future 2 round pick, and expiring contracts for cap filler.

Why they do it: It's obvious. They come out even better than the original proposed Kidd trade because now they get rid of both Carter's AND Kidd's contract while netting their PG of the future, expiring contracts, and picks to build around RJ and Harris.

Dallas Trades: Harris, KVH contract, two future first round picks, one future second round pick, 3 million in cash, and expiring contracts (Diop + whoever else)
Dallas Receives: Kidd, J'Oneal, Allen, Wright.

Why Dallas does it: We get Kidd and replace Diop with J'Oneal who, when healthy, is one of the best low post big men in the game that can both play defense and offense!

Our lineup:

J.O'Neal / Damp / Fazekas
Dirk / Bass / Ju.Howard
Howard / Stackhouse
Jones / Terry / Hassell
Kidd / Barea / Terry

That lineup would make us the favorites to win it all and strike fear into every other team in the NBA.

Get it done Cuban!!!

so for New Jersey, it looks like they would be getting KVH's contract instead of Oneal? I don't think they'd go for that.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

As long as it is Marks money..........YES

You extend Kidd a year. That means his expires in two. JO's expires in two.

It costs lots of money for two years. Many M$'s. It also gives you the best chance at winning the title, IMO.

In three years Dirks is up, and who knows what level he will be playing at then. So will JHo, and Damps. Terry's goes one more year after that.

Basically you are putting all your eggs into a three year window. If they can't win or at least come close in two, then you have expiring contracts, and you start the rebuilding process.

If people disagree with you its because you are making way too much sense.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

so for New Jersey, it looks like they would be getting KVH's contract instead of Oneal? I don't think they'd go for that.

Clearing Carter and Kidd makes them in the running for Brand, etc.

Harris, Jefferson, the Williams, and Boone would be their only ongoing contracts. The Williams and Boone contracts are small. No aging vet, and a clean start with players that have big potential.

I can see them doing it.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Clearing Carter and Kidd makes them in the running for Brand, etc.

Harris, Jefferson, the Williams, and Boone would be their only ongoing contracts. The Williams and Boone contracts are small. No aging vet, and a clean start with players that have big potential.

I can see them doing it.

Is a future open competition for Brand better than a closed competition for Oneal?

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Is a future open competition for Brand better than a closed competition for Oneal?

That depends on what you think of his injury history, and whether you are putting your eggs into the next two year window, or rebuilding around younger guys.

[Usually Lurkin]

besides, don't we want an sg in addition to the center?
why not just say lets get Carter, and give them KVH's contract?

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

As long as it is Marks money..........YES

You extend Kidd a year. That means his expires in two. JO's expires in two.

It costs lots of money for two years. Many M$'s. It also gives you the best chance at winning the title, IMO.

In three years Dirks is up, and who knows what level he will be playing at then. So will JHo, and Damps. Terry's goes one more year after that.

Basically you are putting all your eggs into a three year window. If they can't win or at least come close in two, then you have expiring contracts, and you start the rebuilding process.

These days in the NBA it seems like there are two types of teams:

1). Those willing to put it all on the line and go for the championship now even it means sacrificing potential gains in the future.

2). Teams that are in rebuilding mode.

Can you think of any team that is both a contender and bringing up young guys to the be the future of the franchise??

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

besides, don't we want an sg in addition to the center?
why not just say lets get Carter, and give them KVH's contract?

I'd rather have an inside shot blocking, post player with a 2 year deal, than an aging slasher with a 4 year deal. I would like to upgrade the SG, but with Kidd, and JO, I am not sure why you would need anything more than a Bowen type SG at that point.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Can you think of any team that is both a contender and bringing up young guys to the be the future of the franchise??

Dallas until this week (Harris, Howard).
LA (Bynum)
New Orleans (Paul)
Utah (Williams)
Portland is close to that list and may be on it next year.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

These days in the NBA it seems like there are two types of teams:

1). Those willing to put it all on the line and go for the championship now even it means sacrificing potential gains in the future.

2). Teams that are in rebuilding mode.

Can you think of any team that is both a contender and bringing up young guys to the be the future of the franchise??

No, but I can think of quite a few that are mediocre, we won't pay lux tax teams that will always keep fans hoping, but never deliver.

[ty]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

besides, don't we want an sg in addition to the center?
why not just say lets get Carter, and give them KVH's contract?

Becuase Carter settles for jump shots even more than TMac--and he is far worse at it on that note.

...maybe apathy runs in the family...shrug.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by ty

Becuase Carter settles for jump shots even more than TMac--and he is far worse at it on that note.

...maybe apathy runs in the family...shrug.

I think also: NJN thinks they can get more for him than money.

[adirktotheheart]

Nevermind O'Neal's chronic knee problem that will probably force him to miss the rest of the season...