Seattle shopping Ray Allen - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

endtroducing · 02-19-2005, 10:35 AM

destinations?

fin4life · 02-19-2005, 11:52 AM

I think denver is a real possibility. If not at the trade deadline, the nuggets will make a big run at him during the offseason.

I think Denver is going to end up being a team like Phoenix... but not in their style of play. Coming into last year... Phoenix was supposed to be an up and coming team that was going to make their mark on the western conference with all of their young talent, but they were very disappointing and they fired their coach. The next year they got a big name free agent and turned their franchise around.

Denver had a very promising season last year and added to their team by getting K-mart. They were expected to be big players in the West this year, but they have been tremendously dissappointing. I think they will get Ray-Ray during the summer and they will become a top 5 team in the west during the 2005-2006 season. MARK MY WORDS

Denver is next years Pheonix Suns

sike · 02-19-2005, 12:22 PM

link please?

why would they get rid of Allen?

rakesh.s · 02-19-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
link please?

why would they get rid of Allen?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...ball&type=lgns

there have been murmurs of this for the past couple days

fin4life, i didn't think of denver, but that is certainly a possibility

a sign and trade with hilario and a couple of other players would probably do the trick.

I know Denver wouldn't get rid of carmelo, but they should consider it because ray allen right now is a significantly better player.

sike · 02-19-2005, 04:01 PM

ahhhh, a money issue: check it out now, funk soul brotha

Sonics: Is Allen looking for new home

by Fanball Staff - Fanball.com
Saturday, February 19, 2005

News
The Sonics were hoping to work out a long-term deal with Ray Allen, but so far little progress has been made. The Tacoma News Tribune reports that Allen had a conversation with NBA vice president of operations, Stu Jackson and asked him, "Have you ever had a guy make the All-Star team and then get traded before the game is played to the other conference? What would you do?"

Views
The Sonics management has been in an awkward situation this season, as they are putting a competitive team on the floor a year or two before they felt it was possible. Allen has obviously been the foundation of that success, but still both sides are almost 30 million apart on contract negotiations. He has admitted that he feels no pressure to get something done before the February 24th trade deadline and wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see negotiations stretch into the summer. The Sonics would be wise to reach deep into their pockets and build around one of the best players in the Western Conference this season. If they need to be convinced of his worth, they can simply ask any of his fantasy owners.

sike · 02-19-2005, 04:04 PM

that is foolishness, where would they be without Ray?

XERXES · 02-19-2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
that is foolishness, where would they be without Ray?

Seattle.

dalmations202 · 02-20-2005, 09:09 AM

Seattle trades: SG Ray Allen (23.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 4.1 apg in 39.8 minutes)
Seattle receives: PG Darrell Armstrong (5.4 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 3.3 apg in 18.3 minutes)
SG Marquis Daniels (9.1 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.3 apg in 25.2 minutes)
PF Alan Henderson (3.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 15.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -5.9 ppg, +6.6 rpg, and +1.8 apg.

Dallas trades: PG Darrell Armstrong (5.4 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 3.3 apg in 18.3 minutes)
SG Marquis Daniels (9.1 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.3 apg in 25.2 minutes)
PF Alan Henderson (3.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 15.5 minutes)
Dallas receives: SG Ray Allen (23.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 4.1 apg in 39.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +5.9 ppg, -6.6 rpg, and -1.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Seattle would get two expiring contracts, a PG, and a young 1/2/3 hybrid for a guy that they don't think they can resign anyway.
Dallas would get a proven 2/1 who can shoot. It would solidify their backcourt for the next 3-5 years with Allen, Finley, Howard, and Stack.

Would Seattle do it?
Would Dallas do it?

Does it make sense for either team, IYO?

poohrichardson · 02-20-2005, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dalmations202
Seattle trades: SG Ray Allen (23.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 4.1 apg in 39.8 minutes)
Seattle receives: PG Darrell Armstrong (5.4 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 3.3 apg in 18.3 minutes)
SG Marquis Daniels (9.1 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.3 apg in 25.2 minutes)
PF Alan Henderson (3.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 15.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -5.9 ppg, +6.6 rpg, and +1.8 apg.

Dallas trades: PG Darrell Armstrong (5.4 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 3.3 apg in 18.3 minutes)
SG Marquis Daniels (9.1 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.3 apg in 25.2 minutes)
PF Alan Henderson (3.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 15.5 minutes)
Dallas receives: SG Ray Allen (23.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 4.1 apg in 39.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +5.9 ppg, -6.6 rpg, and -1.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Seattle would get two expiring contracts, a PG, and a young 1/2/3 hybrid for a guy that they don't think they can resign anyway.
Dallas would get a proven 2/1 who can shoot. It would solidify their backcourt for the next 3-5 years with Allen, Finley, Howard, and Stack.

Would Seattle do it?
Would Dallas do it?

Does it make sense for either team, IYO?

Makes sense for both teams.. if Seattle really has zero chance of getting him back this off-season, they could definitely do worse than a ton of cap space and a player with an unlimited upside..

Poindexter Einstein · 02-20-2005, 02:10 PM

I love Allen as a player, but there is no way to have him and Finley (two max contract SGs) on the same roster.

sike · 02-20-2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: XERXES

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
that is foolishness, where would they be without Ray?

Seattle.

freakin genius.....

I hate you

mavsman221 · 02-20-2005, 03:51 PM

i say he will end up in cleveland through free agency over summer

sike · 02-20-2005, 04:04 PM

Allen and James on the same squad??? wow

mavsman221 · 02-20-2005, 04:09 PM

what is wrong with that if they get him through free agency, supposedly they will go after michael redd but why not go after allen? perimeter shooting is a big weakness for them

dalmations202 · 02-20-2005, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
I love Allen as a player, but there is no way to have him and Finley (two max contract SGs) on the same roster.

You say that, and the businessman in me agrees, but since I don't really care about Mark's money....the D-Mavs are a tax write off for him anyway - then why not.

You would have to admit that Terry, Allen, and Fin with Harris, Stackhouse, and Howard on the bench would be awesome for years to come. Especially if MBenga and PPod develop. I'd love to see a situation where Bradley and either Henderson/Najera type are the 11th and 12th players, and you go a true 2 deep at every position. They are getting real close now.

Heck, you could rotate the starts for the guards from the first three to the second three, and not miss a lick.

EricaLubarsky · 02-20-2005, 04:28 PM

Stackhouse, FInley and Allen on the same team is insanity. Pure insanity, whether or not Howard is gettin the majority of minutes at the 3 or not.

And by insanity, I mean the mental health kind.

EricaLubarsky · 02-20-2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mavsman221
what is wrong with that if they get him through free agency, supposedly they will go after michael redd but why not go after allen? perimeter shooting is a big weakness for them

Only a sign and trade unless he would accept a contract of less then half.

And with Finley, Nowitzki and Terry, why do we really need the outside shooting of a guy that plays the same position as Finley, Stackhouse, and Daniels?

dalmations202 · 02-20-2005, 04:55 PM

Quote:

And with Finley, Nowitzki and Terry, why do we really need the outside shooting of a guy that plays the same position as Finley, Stackhouse, and Daniels?

I wouldn't say their is a real "need". I would say that Ray Allen is a better shooter (slightly) than Fin, Stack, Howard, and Daniels. I would say he has a drive that is better (slightly) than Howard, Daniels and Fin. I also think his defense is better than Fin, and at least equal to Stack and Daniels - not as good as Howards. He is an all-pro.

I just like his game, and think him and Dirk would be awesome together, and compliment each others game tremendously.

Really it should be Fin for Allen, but I don't think Seattle would take Fin. That would defeat the reason they say they can't sign Allen ($$$).
Who knows? I certainly don't expect it to happen....it was just a thought.

sike · 02-20-2005, 05:06 PM

Allen is one of the best shooting 2's in the league....way better than Stack or Quis

Bayliss · 02-20-2005, 05:19 PM

After they saw him and Radmanivic's performance last night.... both are on the block.

EricaLubarsky · 02-20-2005, 06:58 PM

Walker was a better passer than both Nowitzki and Najera. Jamison was a more versatile inside scoring threat than both of them.

sike · 02-21-2005, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Walker was a better passer than both Nowitzki and Najera. Jamison was a more versatile inside scoring threat than both of them.

point being?

EricaLubarsky · 02-21-2005, 12:45 AM

I thought it was clear. Adding guys to a crowded roster because they do one thing a little better than other guys you already have is a recipe for disaster.

sike · 02-21-2005, 12:45 AM

gotcha

dalmations202 · 02-21-2005, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
I thought it was clear. Adding guys to a crowded roster because they do one thing a little better than other guys you already have is a recipe for disaster.

Problem is, Ray Allen is better than any of the guys in the overall, and is much more efficient. You need efficient players, not one dimensional ones. Ray Allen isn't one dimensional. He can drive, shoot the 3, and the mid-range game. He also plays descent D. He is a much more efficient player than Finley, and not as one-dimensional as the other 3.

This is the reason he is the all-star, and the other four aren't.

This isn't a recipe for disaster, because in the trade, you are moving one of the 4, and a PG, and Allen can play some backup PG as well.
Terry/Harris/Allen
Allen/Stackhouse/Terry
Howard/Finley/Stackhouse

Looks 3 deep, and very solid to me.

Pirate · 02-21-2005, 09:44 AM

I like Ray Allen. I cant see Cuban adding more players with those huge mega-dollar deals, though. He just got rid of all the ones he had except Nowitzki and Finley, and I dont think it was an accident.

rakesh.s · 02-21-2005, 12:04 PM

As was mentioned above, Cleveland is also a possibility but I think Joe Johnson or Larry Hughes might be a better candidate for Cleveland because they are not likely to expect a max'd out deal.

Allen said that if he can't get his money in Seattle, he'll go to a team that is, and try to win a title there.

I thought allen was already on a max deal..The Sonics have 8 fa's..Wouldn't it be wise for Ray Allen to accept less money so they can sign most of those guys and keep the nucleus together for a long time??

I mean, what's he going to do with 200 million that he can't do with 100 million that he's already got.

endtroducing · 02-21-2005, 12:30 PM

only reason we'd take Allen right now is to try to cut cap space, and Cuban isn't interested in that...if they want Finley straight up, I'd do it...but not for anything else.

jayC · 02-22-2005, 01:16 PM

The Sonics would be foolish to trade Ray Allen. The Sonics have the largest division lead over any opponent in the league. They have knocked off teams like San Antonio, Miami, Dallas, and Phoenix.

Flip41 · 06-02-2005, 02:08 PM

There is a thread on the db.com boards that says that some guy named thunder called into Fish's show claiming that Seattle's offer is Ray for Mike Finley and Marquis and 3 mil. He said that the Mavs are balking. He said he got the news from someone inside the org. I am sure it's not true. Just thaught I would let everyone know.

Flip41 · 06-02-2005, 02:12 PM

I'm not sure about this one when I think about it. that would be one hell of a contract for Ray. Better be front loaded.

ocelot_ark · 06-02-2005, 02:41 PM

Do it, if true. Make them throw in Ridnour [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Flip41 · 06-02-2005, 02:54 PM

Some person on DB.com had a good point. Seattle can take back more salary since they are so far under the cap. Ray wants 5yrs and 80mill

dalmations202 · 06-02-2005, 03:32 PM

Somehow I don't think that was really offered. Too good to be true.

That would really be sweet if it were though. Daniels/Fin for Ray. Wow, who is Ray's agent? That entension would have to be worked out before they did this, but Wow.

I can't imagine having Allen, Stack, and Howard as my swingmen, with Terry and KVH to play matchup.

You would be the development of either Benga or PPod from knowing that you had the best 9 playing, and could play any style offense or defense needed.
I think I could win 45-50 games [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] - coaching that lineup. Harris, Allen, Howard, Dirk, - with Terry, Stackhouse, KVH, Benga/PPod, Damp, and Bradley available.

Available offense from Terry, Stack, and KVH off the bench.
Two light them up scorers in Allen and Dirk.
Defense/cleanup from Harris, Howard, and the Big.

All good defenders.

Fans would hate me. Bradley would probably start, and run pick-n-rolls with Harris from the high post, with Allen and Dirk coming off screens from everywhere and Howard cutting to the goal with every pick. Then I could bring in Stack for Howard, and let him isolate on the backside. Then KVH and Terry and utilize them as Pick-n-pop shooters. Use the SA defense with the switches on the defensive end, and double everything with 10'.

The speed of Allen and Harris and the length of Howard would create havic for teams. Bradley or Damp or Benga or PPod as determined by the center the other team has, and Benga (provided he develops) to block some shots, and bang with Amare, TD, and KGarnett.

The only true matchup player I would have would be the Center, who would get the start based upon the Center on the other team. All would have a defined role though.

The Miles · 06-03-2005, 06:28 AM

Ray is his own agent.

Seriously, heard the story on Dan Patricks show.

aexchange · 06-03-2005, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Flip41
There is a thread on the db.com boards that says that some guy named thunder called into Fish's show claiming that Seattle's offer is Ray for Mike Finley and Marquis and 3 mil. He said that the Mavs are balking. He said he got the news from someone inside the org. I am sure it's not true. Just thaught I would let everyone know.

as much as i love mike finley, if that offer were true, i can't pull the trigger fast enough.

ray ray with dirk? thats unstoppable.

fin4life · 06-03-2005, 11:52 AM

I love Finley. He is my favorite player of all time. I get pissed off everytime someone wants to bring him off the bench. I yell at every single one of my friends when they say he sucks. I usually hate any trade that involves him, no matter what the circumstances are...... But this trade might be too good to be true.

If we could get Ray Allen to be our second option, we would have no choice but to do it. We are not giving up very much to get a superstar, and if Cuban wants to pay the money, we need to make this deal. It will be very bittersweet because I absolutely hate to lose finley, but this might be the deal that gets us over the hump.

jthig32 · 06-03-2005, 11:53 AM

I don't see any way this rumor is true.

First of all Allen would have to agree to this as a sign and trade.

Second there's no way in hell Dallas balks at this.

Third, I doubt any trades, especially sign and trades are being discusses right now, because so much could change with the new CBA.

But sweet Lord, if this happened, I would do backflips for months on end.

V2M · 06-07-2005, 09:49 AM

Ray probably wants a max deal allowed under the CBA. Presuming that Cuban is willing AND the Sonics aren't, this isn't entirely implausible. I could see this work out great for the Mavericks and Ray. But I'm not sure Sonics can't get a better deal than just Quis/Fin & $3m.

2 Superstars and depth at every position would be awesome!!

LRB · 06-07-2005, 10:14 AM

Of course I'd take the Quis + Fin for Allen trade. We could also offer a stack + Terry + Quis or stack + terry + Bradley or KVH + Quis or KVH + Bradley and I'd be willing to throw in a Pavel or Benga if necessary to make the deal work. We can give Seattle quality talent with much shorter contracts than Fin's if necessary. Having Dirk + Allen in the starting rotation and having Fin coming off the bench to provide offense would be pretty nice too.