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Old 05-24-2005, 01:42 PM   #1
dalmations202
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Default Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Portand wants to clean up it's image.
Dallas wants a championship.

If Portland picked up the option on NVE this works by the CBA
To Portland
Shawn Bradley
7-6 C from Brigham Young
2.7 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.5 minutes

Marquis Daniels
6-6 SG from Auburn
9.1 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 23.5 minutes

Michael Finley
6-7 SG from Wisconsin
15.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 36.8 minutes

To Dallas
Nick Van Exel
6-1 PG from Cincinnati
11.1 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.3 apg in 30.6 minutes

Theo Ratliff
6-10 C from Wyoming
4.8 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 27.5 minutes

Would Portland do it? Would Dallas?

Portland gives up Ratliff and NVE, but NVE is gone anyway, and they get Fin, a young in Daniels, and a shot blocker in Bradley.
Dallas gets rid of the bloated contract of Fin, and two mis-matched pieces for a 4/5 combo shotblocker, and a PG -- allowing Terry to play more SG.
If NVE doesn't pan, his contract is up, and Ratliff's is only 3 years. I bet Ratliff would end up the starting center as well.

This needs some thought....................................
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Old 05-24-2005, 01:47 PM   #2
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Dallas gets Ratliff and an aging Van Excel and gives up an unproven Marquis and an aging Finley. Dallas gets the better out of that deal.

Although, I think Portland could find better players who are also model-citizens from other teams. Ray Allen is looking for a new home. Michael Redd is also seeking. Just to name 2.

As a Dallas fan, I like this trade.
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Old 05-24-2005, 04:00 PM   #3
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Finley
Terry
DJ MBenga

also works for NVE and Ratliff, as do a number of other combinations. I think this could be a trade area worth exploring.
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Old 05-24-2005, 04:56 PM   #4
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

I am not sure that Portland would do this kind of trade, but if I were Donnie and Mark..... I would be calling.
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Old 05-24-2005, 05:10 PM   #5
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Does Van Excel still have the same ability as before?
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Old 05-24-2005, 07:05 PM   #6
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

i thought NVE's contract was up, meaning it would have to be a sign-and-trade and thus those salaries would not match unless portland will be enough under the cap, but if we want Nick we could probably just use our MLE, but i'd try to get a big man first
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Old 05-24-2005, 08:16 PM   #7
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

The whole premise was that Portland would pick up Nick Van Exel's contract. I don't think Nick can help us any longer. Jason Terry is his clone and shoots with a much higher frequency than nick the quick. I still want to see a full training camp and summer league play from Marquis Daniels. I don't like that trade.
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Old 05-24-2005, 08:26 PM   #8
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Nick has a team option that Portland likely won't exercise unless they trade him.

Would be nice to dump Finley on them.
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Old 05-24-2005, 09:05 PM   #9
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

WHY? this is the dumbest thing ever. Daniels and Finley for a spare and a decent player? screw that
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Old 05-24-2005, 09:46 PM   #10
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

I agree with Ninkobei. Seriously why dump Finley for nothing? He's still valuable to this team and is the soul and heart of the Mavericks. He will prove his doubters wrong next season after his surgery.... The Mavs seriously need to start showing loyalty to some players, especially Fin since he basically was this organization for many years and is a huge reason why the Mavs are so successful today.
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Old 05-24-2005, 11:38 PM   #11
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Quote:
Nick has a team option that Portland likely won't exercise unless they trade him.
Where did you read this? I looked at the realgm and insidehoops salary pages and it doesn't show him having the team option. I'm not questioning you but would like to know what salary page your using. Thanks.


Portland would be an ideal place to shop Finley. They'll pay (or overpay if you will), and they need a professional on and off the court. But they already have 2/3 guys in Patterson, Anderson, Outlaw, Krhypapa. Would they really want to add Finley AND Daniels? I think Dallas would have to take back either Patteron or Anderson instead of NVE.
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Old 05-24-2005, 11:39 PM   #12
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

yes Nick does have a team option. Portland won't pick up a 12 million option.
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Old 05-24-2005, 11:48 PM   #13
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

This is where I got the Nick TO information from.

As for dumping Finley, you are getting an expiring contract (Nick) for him which at this point has much higher value than Finley. Finley still has 3 years and around $50,000,000 on his deal, if Cuban can dump Finley he can be aggressive with the expirers he has and add a contract that could help Dallas.

Finley and Dallas need a divorce.
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Old 05-24-2005, 11:50 PM   #14
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

I have heard two other Por/Dallas ideas:

A. Theo Ratliff/Derek Anderson for Michael Finley/Shawn Bradley (LOVE THIS ONE)

B. Theo Ratliff/Darius Miles for Michael Finley (not too high on this one and not even sure it works cap wise, didn't check it for the guy that made it)

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Old 05-25-2005, 01:14 AM   #15
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Miles, either is great. Finley is obviously past his prime and needs to see some pasture. Portland, Knicks, and possibly Golden State(although most of there guys are young and they finally started winning) all are great trading partners for us. Each of these teams have some bloated contracts that they would love to get rid of, similar to ourselves. Theo is a perfect match for us, a great 4/5 guy with a huge contract that we can easily trade for with a variety of offers. Also guys like Patterson, or some of there rooks, can be had. They will have a new coach I guess and have a lot of money tied up in a variety of players, same as the Knicks.

If we can get out of Fin's contract, that will be as impressive as trading Juwan away. Fin is basically coming into the time for him to be 7th or 8th player off of our bench. I don't want to trade Marquis unless we get back some youth also.

I think if you feel that Finley isn't getting loyalty from the Mavs, just look at his salary he signed in what, 2001. 3 years at 50 mil. is redicules for any player. He's up there with Allen Houston bad. Shaq and KG are at these numbers. My loyalty stands with the mavs, no matter what player is out there, we have given Finley many years of support. He has his contract, send him on his way.
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Old 05-25-2005, 02:06 AM   #16
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

I've brought this up before, but if we can get Darius Miles, do it. Otherwise, this trade sucks. If it's a trade with Portland, and Miles' name isn't mentioned, it's crap.
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Old 05-25-2005, 07:31 AM   #17
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Quote:
Originally posted by: Ninkobei
WHY? this is the dumbest thing ever. Daniels and Finley for a spare and a decent player? screw that
maybe portland could throw their #2 pick in? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]
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Old 05-25-2005, 09:55 AM   #18
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Just say no to Patterson. Miles has like 5 years left on his contract, and has never lived up to hype, although he does have hops. NVE isn't the same, but you aren't really asking him to be either.

I still really like the Fin/Bradley/Daniels for NVE/Ratliff deal. Moving Fin and Daniels still leaves us with plenty of 2/3's. Terry, Howard, Stackhouse, KVH, and even NVE can play some 2 or 3. You really only need 3.

Bradley isn't going to play here anyway, why keep him? No one seems to know how to utilize what he does bring to the table.

Daniels is really just the odd man out here, and would get more playing time there. You have to give up something to get something.

NVE is gone either way, since they won't pick up his option except in a trade.

Ratliff primarily is their shot blocker anyway, and Bradley is a pretty good shotblocker himself.

I just don't see the really bad downside to the trade for either side, other than the Fin fans (of which I am one) not liking to see Fin go. Maybe if you see it as lopsided, and Dallas giving up to much, maybe they would throw in a draft pick somewhere. I personally think only 1st round picks are worth something anyway.
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Old 05-25-2005, 12:26 PM   #19
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

It would be great to dump Marquis' 5 year deal (tho I still have hope for him here), Finley and Bradleys 3 year deals and get back a 3 year and a 1 year deal with the 3 year deal filling our biggest backup need.

I think I would do it but the problem is that the Blazers are set to take Gerald Green, why would they commit to Finley and Daniels too, especially Daniels? I could see Finley and Portland being good for each other, Finley can work with the HSer and they need guys like Finley.

I still like Fin/Bradley for Theo/Anderson the best, though getting Nicks contract is better than getting DAs. In the end, you gotta take to get, ie take on DAs contract.
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Old 05-25-2005, 01:44 PM   #20
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Wow.... all the trades mentioned in this topic are simply HORRIBLE. I don't see how dumping Fin's contract and getting nothing back in return is a positive? First of all you don't trade away the team leader (especially for nothing). Secondly, Fin is still productive and I expect him to have a great season next year coming off of the surgery. Not to mention the fact you're just asking to kill the team chemistry by trading him away.

Now on "dumping" Daniels contract? You've got to be kidding me...seriously do you have any idea what you’re talking about? Daniels is making about the MLE for the next 5 years and that’s a great contract for the Mavs to have. 1.) He's young and has the chance to be something great, he's shown a lot of flashes (last years playoffs…enough said). Not to mention the fact that he will be MUCH more productive next year after having a whole off-season with AJ and not being bothered by the injury bug (hopefully) anymore.

Trade away a team leader and starter for nothing.... makes sense, right.
"Dump" your future away.... makes even more sense, wow.
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Old 05-25-2005, 03:20 PM   #21
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Let's see. Theo Ratliff has avg over 3 blocks a game for 5 of his 9 years in the league. He avg 2.5 bpg this last year, and 3.6 bpg the year before. So how are you getting nothing back in return. You are taking a luxury (too many 2/3's now) and turning it into a need that is proven. And to say you will kill team chemistry.....what a joke. Chemistry is built by trust, and I haven't seen alot of that around the Mavs since Nick left. Weren't any trust with Walker around, and this year had too many late changes.

Daniels is a part that may or may not fit. He isn't the PG of the future (Harris is). He really isn't a SG as he doesn't have the outside shot or muscle. Howard is the SF. He isn't big enough to play PF or C. So unless you think he is going to beat out Fin, Stack, or Terry -- where does he get the playing time? Do you leave him on the bench disgruntled? Oh, you play him and have Fin or Stackhouse, or Terry disgruntled. One year you can get away with, but when you start trying to go 2-3 years.....watch out.

So I don't see what you are complaing about. One of the 2/3's needs to go (Finley, Howard, Daniels, Stackhouse) because of playing time issues. Even if 2 of them go, you still have Terry to back up the 2 and KVH to back up the 3.

If you are going to keep Terry as the starting PG, and you want to develop Harris, then Terry is going to have to play some 2 to get his minutes. If you are going to keep KVH, then you have to put him at the 3 to get him minutes because Dirk is not going to leave many at the 4. KVH can't play the 5 consistently against most teams, he is a 3/4. So now that you have a glutton at the 2/3 and two players needing to take some of the 2/3 minutes -- who do you propose to move.

IMO, from their play of this last year, Stack and Howard deserve to start.
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Old 05-25-2005, 05:35 PM   #22
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Jesus Christ, it seems everyone is just dying to trade Marquis around here. He had a rough year because of injuries and coaching confusion. Give the kid a f*cking chance! You saw what he did in last years playoffs, and he showed flashes of that this year. He WILL start sometime in the future, if not next year, then the year after that. You say he has no outside shot, and no muscle, yet you say you want Harris to start.... Harris needs muscle a LOT more than Marquis, or anyone else on this team for that matter. Yes, Marquis needs to develop a better jumpshot before he can start... Give him a season to do it. You don't trade away a young possible future all-star for NOTHING. Talk about Ratliff's blocks all you want... Trading away Fin and Quis for Ratliff and Van Exel is a horrible idea. If Miles and a draft pick is involved, then I'm interested. Otherwise, f*ck this trade.
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Old 05-25-2005, 06:54 PM   #23
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

I'd do it. Dallas has to get rid of Finley and Bradley. In the playoffs, Dallas needs players that will actually play semi consistent. Bradley hasn't been consistent his whole career. And if Avery isn't going to play him as the backup center then why have his sorry@ss on the roster? And Finley is becoming more maddeningly inconsistent as Bradley.
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Old 05-28-2005, 04:19 PM   #24
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

We are so far over the salary cap that dumping Finley doesn't do us any good. Even if we were to get rid of his contract, we wouldn't be able to do anything in free agency. The only way to get any value for Finley is through a trade. Good luck! I'm pretty sure that if the Mavs are willing to part with him, it would be pretty hard to sell him as an asset with his remaining contract.
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Old 05-29-2005, 01:39 AM   #25
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Quote:
Wow.... all the trades mentioned in this topic are simply HORRIBLE. I don't see how dumping Fin's contract and getting nothing back in return is a positive?
Theo Ratliff is nothing? This team needs shot blocking and this guy provides that. We have an overload of SG/SFs and one too few PF/Cs, so this trade makes perfect sense.

Quote:
First of all you don't trade away the team leader (especially for nothing).
How long are some of you going to hold onto that myth from the days we were bad? Those days are over, Josh Howard is "the heart and soul" of Dallas. Theo Ratliff helps this team more than Michael Finley does, point blank.

Quote:
Secondly, Fin is still productive and I expect him to have a great season next year coming off of the surgery. Not to mention the fact you're just asking to kill the team chemistry by trading him away.
Uh-huh, just like letting Nash walked killed the chemistry of this team. We won 58 games, 7 more than we did the year before, so things seem peachy to me. Michael Finley does not start in Miami, San Antonio, or Phoenix and our goals as a title contender should be to be as good/better than those teams next year.

Quote:
Now on "dumping" Daniels contract? You've got to be kidding me...seriously do you have any idea what you’re talking about? Daniels is making about the MLE for the next 5 years and that’s a great contract for the Mavs to have.
Yes, I know exactly what I am talking about. Marquis Daniels wasn't drafed, ie he was the 61st pick of the 2004 Draft yet here he is making more than LeBron James. We have a starting SG that makes more money than Tracy McGrady and a backup that makes more than LeBron James. You can't convince me that those are good contracts.

Quote:
1.) He's young and has the chance to be something great, he's shown a lot of flashes (last years playoffs…enough said).
So because had a good 5 game series, not even great, and we are supposed to pay him $40,000,000 over 6 years? Makes no sense, he had a good 19 game stretch and Dallas overpaid.

Quote:
Not to mention the fact that he will be MUCH more productive next year after having a whole off-season with AJ and not being bothered by the injury bug (hopefully) anymore.
Or, maybe there is a reason he wasn't drafted. Maybe he benefited by being the right guy at the right time in an offense with Dirk, Nash, Jamison, Walker, Finley, etc...ie he never saw doubles, he never went against the opponets best defenders, etc...he was unscouted and he had a good run. DeShawn Stevenson averaged 17 ppg over a month stretch this year, would you give him $40,000,000 and let Steve Nash walk for $65,000,000? Makes no sense. I wish Quis the best of luck, we need a SG. We have a decent starter in Stackhouse, a spot up shooter off of the bench type in Michael Finley, and no true starter. If Quis can add a jumper it would be great but, again, the guy went undrafted and in two years in the NBA has yet to add that. I don't see a reason to hang your hat on him.

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Trade away a team leader and starter for nothing.... makes sense, right. "Dump" your future away.... makes even more sense, wow.
I never said anything about trading Josh Howard or Devin Harris.

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We are so far over the salary cap that dumping Finley doesn't do us any good. Even if we were to get rid of his contract, we wouldn't be able to do anything in free agency. The only way to get any value for Finley is through a trade.
That is just it, you have to listen carefully. Cuban doesn't want added payroll but in the next 4 years we are going to have to extend Jason Terry, Josh Howad, and Devin Harris. So that cash has to come from somewhere, someones contract is going to have to expire. It appears that Van Horn will, I guess they can wait it out with Finley too but I am sure Cuban would love to get more space now to sign these guys back or else we are going to have a $120,000,000 payroll which is something this owner, nor any owner, will do.

You can either work smartly towards ways to keep Jet, Josh, and DH or you can hang your hat on Finley and Quis and watch better talent walk away. I don't know about you, but after watching the MVP walk, I am tired of the better talent walking while we are stuck paying Finley $52,000,000 over three years. We lost Nash because of Finley.
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Old 05-29-2005, 01:41 AM   #26
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

And I like Quis, I root for him, but in the end, I just don't believe in him like I do Devin and Josh. I worry, I really do, I wonder why Devin was a lottery pick, Josh a 1st rounder, yet Marquis was undrafted. I believe in pedigrees and maybe that is my problem.

I hope Quis comes back next year with a legitimate jumpshot, I hope he does a Drew Henson and works on it non stop all summer and changes his release, but I don't know man. I know Cuban won't trade Quis so it doesn't matter.

I just worry, Quis has a major flaw.
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Old 05-29-2005, 10:26 AM   #27
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

Dallas could make back a lot of the salary it'll need to resign Terry, Howard, etc., simply by resigning KVH at a lower amount. He'll be at $16 million next year, as a free agent I think it wouldn't take much over the MLE for three years to resign him--if he's happy here.
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Old 06-02-2005, 06:47 PM   #28
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Default RE:Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

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Originally posted by: The Miles
And I like Quis, I root for him, but in the end, I just don't believe in him like I do Devin and Josh. I worry, I really do, I wonder why Devin was a lottery pick, Josh a 1st rounder, yet Marquis was undrafted. I believe in pedigrees and maybe that is my problem.
So far, in their respective NBA careers, Marquis Daniels has impressed me quite a bit more than Devin Harris. Sorry, but that's the truth. Marquis Daniels' rookie season > Devin Harris' rookie season. Sure, there are several reasons for this, but the fact is, Marquis played great as a rookie and was racked this year by injuries, and the coaching change. Devin shows tremendous promise, but I think you could say the same for Marquis.
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Old 06-03-2005, 06:39 AM   #29
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Default RE: Dal/Port Would you do it? Would Portland?

That is fine, that is why it is nice to have a 3rd young guy around like Marquis. I am not going to trash your opinion but I don't think you can compare a talent like Quis to a talent like Devin, just my $.02. Devin Harris was asked to replace a local legend, Marquis Daniels got to play on a team with Nowitzki, Nash, Walker, Jamison, and Finley, ie a team where Quis never saw a double, never saw the opponents best defender, and since Quis really only did it for about 14 games, he was never really gameplanned.

Some could look back on Flip Murray with the Sonics a couple of years back and say the same types of things. I root for Quis, I just don't see it.
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