T-mac to the Mavs?

[horse900703]

Looks like t-mac will leave the rockets because of his playing time. http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4773566
I'm thinking if we can get t-mac to the mavs, we will be even bettter, what do u guys think?

[Rick41]

Enough TMAC. Delete this thread now.

[Robillion]

I would love to get McGrady actually.. it just wont happen though. I really have no doubt that this guy is going to make a come back with the team that gives him a chance. Problem is we do not have the ability really to give him a chance..he needs playing time and to work through a ton of mistakes to get his touch and feel for the game back. We cannot give that to him. The Pacers or some crappy team like that could though. So even if we could pick him up at vet minimum, it would hurt us in the short term.. I dont see us risking that set back.

[Skywalker]

No, thank you.

[EricaLubarsky]

Jamyoa, aka the other Horse already posted it here and it got moved here
http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=35836

[Lor20]

he'll play what... 10 half assed games a season? personally I don't think that is worth 20 million a year.

[sefant77]

a thread for a roleplayer of another team in the main mavs forum?

[Nowitzki4President]

So we're talking leave the Rockets and sign with another team for a completely new contract? Just clarifying...

Also, could a S&T work out where he leaves the Rockets, resigns, and is immediately traded?

[DubOverdose]

We don't need any role players that don't want to play their role...

Because as long as you're injured more than you play, you can't be counted on to be a star.

[Nowitzki4President]

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

We don't need any role players that don't want to play their role...

Because as long as you're injured more than you play, you can't be counted on to be a star.

But that's the implication that we would need TMac to be a role player. If we were to pick him up, he wouldn't need him to be a role player, but a #2 scoring option. His health is in question, no doubt. But Howard's is too, so it isn't something we haven't dealt with. But the difference is, TMac knows he's ready to play, knows he's ready to play 30+ minutes a game. Whereas Josh has been wavering, and Carlisle is weaning him into more minutes.

Anyway, all of this is null and void if our FO doesn't even try to get him. But if he somehow gets out of his huge contract, and into a smaller one, I think it's more of a low risk/high reward situation rather than high risk/high reward.

[darkwitzki]

He's crippled more than Josh, we don't need a cripple team.

[antoinewalker]

i'm all for it. he could be the missing piece that finally pushes us over the top.

[mavsfan1000]

I would like it. He can hit the 3 well. He could get some minutes at the 2 position. A position where we are weakest. Not sure if he is quick enough to guard 2 guards at this point of his career. Marion could cover that up for him though.

[DubOverdose]

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

But that's the implication that we would need TMac to be a role player. If we were to pick him up, he wouldn't need him to be a role player, but a #2 scoring option. His health is in question, no doubt. But Howard's is too, so it isn't something we haven't dealt with. But the difference is, TMac knows he's ready to play, knows he's ready to play 30+ minutes a game. Whereas Josh has been wavering, and Carlisle is weaning him into more minutes.

Anyway, all of this is null and void if our FO doesn't even try to get him. But if he somehow gets out of his huge contract, and into a smaller one, I think it's more of a low risk/high reward situation rather than high risk/high reward.

You've completely missed it. He can't be counted on to play and thus you can't build your team around him. When was the last time he was healthy enough to lead his team anywhere? 3 of the last 5 seasons he's only played a handful of games. In the other two seasons he missed significant time. He's injured far more often than Josh. More often than Harris. More often than any other "star." One reason we gave up Harris was because he was always injured. We can't bring a guy on and expect him to be a #2 when he hasn't shown he can play a full season.

[Nowitzki4President]

Before we talk about how he would be on our team, as if we've already signed him, can someone please answer this question for me?

How would we even get him?

[SeriousSummer]

I can't make a trade work--Dallas doesn't have enough worthless high-salaried players to match.

[mavsfan1000]

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

Before we talk about how he would be on our team, as if we've already signed him, can someone please answer this question for me?

How would we even get him?

We got a very deep team. We could trade in that depth for a great starting 5. I'd say we keep Kidd, Howard, Marion, Dirk, and Dampier. The others are tradeable.

[SeriousSummer]

Terry/Carroll/Gooden/Humphrey/Williams for McGrady works. 5 for 1. I have a hard time seeing why either Dallas or Houston would do this--there has to be a deal out there that makes more sense for Houston and doesn't require Dallas to sign 3 more players.

[endrity]

buyout and sign?

[Nowitzki4President]

Originally Posted by endrity

buyout and sign?

That's what I was thinking too, but it's not very beneficial to Houston.

To be honest, if we're gonna acquire T-Mac, it's gonna be either some insane 3 or 4 team trade, or free agency, can't see it happening throuhg a buyout.

[EricaLubarsky]

If he's bought out there are about 25 teams that get dibs on him before we do and a lot of those teams would love a guy like McGrady off the waiver wire.

Plus it has no benefit for Houston-- they can get at least a first rounder from someone and/or some cap relief. If they cut him, they still pay him, he still counts against their cap, and they get nothing.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by antoinewalker

i'm all for it. he could be the missing piece that finally pushes us over the top.

I really (really!) like that antoinewalker made this statement.

I wouldn't trade a center for him (though that's what Houston needs) but I'd trade Josh and some unusables (Carroll, Singleton, Ross, Williams). The way I figure, Josh and TMac are coming off injuries and will be good for half a year or so before they get hurt again, and other than his playoff curse, TMac has more "bounce back" room than Josh does.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I really (really!) like that antoinewalker made this statement.

I wouldn't trade a center for him (though that's what Houston needs) but I'd trade Josh and some unusables (Carroll, Singleton, Ross, Williams). The way I figure, Josh and TMac are coming off injuries and will be good for half a year or so before they get hurt again, and other than his playoff curse, TMac has more "bounce back" room than Josh does.

If Dallas really wants to take a chance on this year.

Successful Trade Scenario

Trade ID #5352229

Dallas Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -10.9 ppg, -3.3 rpg, and -0.7 apg.
Incoming Players
Tracy McGrady
6-8 SG / SF from Mount Zion Christian Academy (HS)
3.2 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 7.6 minutes
Outgoing Players
Josh Howard
6-7 SF from Wake Forest
13.3 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 26.2 minutes
Matt Carroll
6-6 SG from Notre Dame
0.8 ppg, 0.3 rpg, 0.2 apg in 4.2 minutes
Shawne Williams
6-9 PF from Memphis
No games yet played in 2009-2010

Houston Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +10.9 ppg, +3.3 rpg, and +0.7 apg.
Incoming Players
Josh Howard
6-7 SF from Wake Forest
13.3 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 26.2 minutes
Matt Carroll
6-6 SG from Notre Dame
0.8 ppg, 0.3 rpg, 0.2 apg in 4.2 minutes
Shawne Williams
6-9 PF from Memphis
No games yet played in 2009-2010
Outgoing Players
Tracy McGrady
6-8 SG / SF from Mount Zion Christian Academy (HS)
3.2 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 7.6 minutes

This works, and if TMac is healthy then it could be a very good deal.

Kidd, TMac, Marion, Dirk, Damp with Terry, Gooden, TThomas is pretty darn good, and of the talent level of any team.

Houston gets JHo and lots of $$'s coming off the books as well.

[me770706]

there is absolutely no way they move a key piece like Josh right now. Sitting at 22-9 i don't think we're looking to take a huge risk like that at this point in the season

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by me770706

there is absolutely no way they move a key piece like Josh right now. Sitting at 22-9 i don't think we're looking to take a huge risk like that at this point in the season

key piece who hasn't played in even 1/2 the games? how key can he be?

[mkat]

i think there are some trades out there that might work with JHo included, but for mcgrady? please no.

[mac222b]

god no

[Bayliss]

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by me770706

there is absolutely no way they move a key piece like Josh right now. Sitting at 22-9 i don't think we're looking to take a huge risk like that at this point in the season

Josh Howard was overrated when he peaked a couple years ago, and he's still overrated after shooting jumpshots for a whole year in between the world's wussiest injuries.

[jthig32]

It absolutely boggles my mind that people want to give up Josh Howard for Tracy McGrady.

I mean, I don't care how overrated you think Howard is, please realize that Tracy McGrady is basically worthless right now. He's coming off the worst surgery an NBA player can have. He's never going to be the same player, no player ever has after microfracture. Jason Kidd is the closest thing to a player that completely, fully recovered from the surgery.

Add to that the fact that the Rockets literally just do not want him to play for their team anymore...I mean jeez. How many red flags do you need?

And saying Josh has missed time for wussy injuries and then saying you want McGrady is incredibly bizarre logic.

I would trade Shawn Williams for Tracy McGrady. That's it. There isn't a single other player on this roster I would trade for him, and that includes Tim Thomas.

[quietsavant]

Originally Posted by jthig32

It absolutely boggles my mind that people want to give up Josh Howard for Tracy McGrady.

I mean, I don't care how overrated you think Howard is, please realize that Tracy McGrady is basically worthless right now. He's coming off the worst surgery an NBA player can have. He's never going to be the same player, no player ever has after microfracture. Jason Kidd is the closest thing to a player that completely, fully recovered from the surgery.

Add to that the fact that the Rockets literally just do not want him to play for their team anymore...I mean jeez. How many red flags do you need?

And saying Josh has missed time for wussy injuries and then saying you want McGrady is incredibly bizarre logic.

I would trade Shawn Williams for Tracy McGrady. That's it. There isn't a single other player on this roster I would trade for him, and that includes Tim Thomas.

You couldn't have hit it more on the spot. TMAC is not the player he once was and never will be. I think we are getting infatuated with his name, notoriety and what he used to be. Will he ever be that player again? no one knows for sure. what I do know is that the guy will never be have the defender JHO is right now. Even when he heals. The guy can't strafe enough to play defense. I promise you guys this, I have kept track of his 7 minutes stints, the guy cannot strafe on defense to save his career.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by jthig32

It absolutely boggles my mind that people want to give up Josh Howard for Tracy McGrady.

I mean, I don't care how overrated you think Howard is, please realize that Tracy McGrady is basically worthless right now. He's coming off the worst surgery an NBA player can have. He's never going to be the same player, no player ever has after microfracture. Jason Kidd is the closest thing to a player that completely, fully recovered from the surgery.

Add to that the fact that the Rockets literally just do not want him to play for their team anymore...I mean jeez. How many red flags do you need?

And saying Josh has missed time for wussy injuries and then saying you want McGrady is incredibly bizarre logic.

I would trade Shawn Williams for Tracy McGrady. That's it. There isn't a single other player on this roster I would trade for him, and that includes Tim Thomas.

I guess I just don't buy all the stuff being said either.

TMac when he was at his best, was a top 3 player in the league. JHo, IMO, has never cracked top 25.

Will TMac ever get close to that ability again........... I have no idea. I have no idea whether it will take motivation, or if injury has literally destroyed his ability.

With that said, Is JHo going to put Dallas above the Celtics, above Cleveland, above LA Lakers, above Orlando?

Would TMac, if he is motivated and can do it, put Dallas into the level of the Celtics, Cleveland, LA and Orlando?

If he is done, then you have 23M coming off the books. You should also be able to get rid of Carrolls money, and get rid of Williams.

So the downside if it busts is that Dallas is a mid level playoff team who is not as good as the elite, but you have massive dollars coming off the books, and still have the Dust chip to acquire players. If everything works right, then you are easily in the elite.

So you keep JHo and make no other changes. You can lose JHo on the team option and Williams comes off the books, but you still have Carroll, and the team IMO is just below elite level.

If you could get TMac for JHo, Carroll, and Williams ---- IMO -- it would give you a much better shot at winning it all this year.

With that said, he would have to pass a very serious physical, and the Dr.s would have a huge input on whether I would do it, if I were Cuban.
How long it would take to heal to 100%, and what level he makes it back to, would be huge questions.


As far as the Rockets and him coming back. He needs a new start. I heard how back NVE was, Stack, TThomas, Gooden etc. New starts do make a difference sometimes.

[jthig32]

But Tracy McGrady hasn't been that player in a long, long time. He's on the downside of his career. You can point to his age all you want, but based on the number of games played and his injuries, his career is, without question, on a severe downswing.

He may recover a bit with a fresh start, but him recovering would mean he's a serviceable member of a rotation. His days of being an all star are over, and his days of being a top player in the league are long, long over.

Teams don't give up on someone they believe to be an all star caliber player simply because he needs a new start. If the Rockets felt like McGrady had anything positive to contribute to their team, he'd be playing for them.

Seriously, people are frustrated with Josh and his somewhat questionable ability to play through injuries. I get that. But have you people followed McGrady's career at all? He's not some guy that's been racked by devastating injuries. He's consistently shown an unwillingness to play through any kind of injury.

I just don't get the McGrady thing. He.is.done.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by jthig32

But Tracy McGrady hasn't been that player in a long, long time. He's on the downside of his career. You can point to his age all you want, but based on the number of games played and his injuries, his career is, without question, on a severe downswing.

He may recover a bit with a fresh start, but him recovering would mean he's a serviceable member of a rotation. His days of being an all star are over, and his days of being a top player in the league are long, long over.

Teams don't give up on someone they believe to be an all star caliber player simply because he needs a new start. If the Rockets felt like McGrady had anything positive to contribute to their team, he'd be playing for them.

Seriously, people are frustrated with Josh and his somewhat questionable ability to play through injuries. I get that. But have you people followed McGrady's career at all? He's not some guy that's been racked by devastating injuries. He's consistently shown an unwillingness to play through any kind of injury.

I just don't get the McGrady thing. He.is.done.

Not sure I agree, but nice job.

With that said, would TMac with a new start be a better player this year, than what JHo will bring this team this year?

IMO, his upside and the upside of his expiring contract, make the deal worth doing.

He may or may not ever be able to get back to an all-star status. I don't know. Maybe he is totally in decline, and will never be good again. I still think it is a descent gamble because I don't think it would be the difference with TMac of 1st to 5th, and with JHo the best they can see is 2nd to 4th.

I am not sure that TMac is actually the answer, but I don't see this squad wining it all without everything working perfectly.

[bobatundi]

wow, I was just reading a rumor in the NY Post about McGrady to the Knicks...and I was dumbfounded when it said he was only 30. That guy just seems like he's so much further along than that...guess it's all the injuries, making him look like an old man.

As for bringing him to the Mavs...no thanks. We don't need a ball hog with bad legs. Unless, of course, he's bought out and becomes an FA...that's an entirely different scenario.

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

I am a Rocket fan, so I will give my perspective.

About T-Mac's ability. He is coming off of knee surgery. However, from the few minutes I have seen from he has gained a good deal of his explosiveness back. He has gotten back that elevation to shot jumpers. He can still take it to the rim. At the same time, he is definitely not 100% and no longer has the quickness to guard wing players (hence the Rockets choosing to play Ariza 40+ min despite Ariza's horrendous shooting numbers).

In conclusion, should the Mavericks trade Howard for T-Mac? NO. T-Mac, while I believe he can still score, is too much of a ball-hog and defensive liability. We are 22-9. Swapping Howard for T-Mac doesn't make our team better.

Of course if we can get him for cheap, I'll be all for it...

[GuerillaBlack]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

If you could get TMac for JHo, Carroll, and Williams ---- IMO -- it would give you a much better shot at winning it all this year.

Daryll Morey says no.

McGrady to the Mavs won't happen.

[darkwitzki]

Originally Posted by jthig32

It absolutely boggles my mind that people want to give up Josh Howard for Tracy McGrady.

I mean, I don't care how overrated you think Howard is, please realize that Tracy McGrady is basically worthless right now. He's coming off the worst surgery an NBA player can have. He's never going to be the same player, no player ever has after microfracture. Jason Kidd is the closest thing to a player that completely, fully recovered from the surgery.

Add to that the fact that the Rockets literally just do not want him to play for their team anymore...I mean jeez. How many red flags do you need?

And saying Josh has missed time for wussy injuries and then saying you want McGrady is incredibly bizarre logic.

I would trade Shawn Williams for Tracy McGrady. That's it. There isn't a single other player on this roster I would trade for him, and that includes Tim Thomas.

Shawn Williams for TMac + 1st Round draft pick will be fair enuff.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Those billions of 12-year-old Chinese kids are looking dumber all the time.

[MavsX]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

hahahaaha