reggie bush - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

thewillis12 · 12-06-2005, 10:46 PM

holy crap.......this guy is gonna be something special.

http://d49.yousendit.com/F/16GASDMXQ...eggiestyle.wmv

capitalcity · 12-06-2005, 11:14 PM

Don't go calling Bush the next Gale Sayers just yet. He'll be running behind the texans' o-line.

Five-ofan · 12-06-2005, 11:19 PM

Hes a stud but as of right now he is overrated. If the texans get the number one pick whoever gets the second one is getting a gift in leinart. Then again the 49ers were stupid and took smith last year so they cant really take leinart. I would offer JJ, the cowboys first and 3rd round picks for the number 2 pick if houston takes bush.

chumdawg · 12-07-2005, 01:37 AM

5-0...let me understand correctly...you'd give Julius Jones, a one, and a three...for Matt Leinart...when you have Henson on the roster? Come again?

dirno2000 · 12-07-2005, 02:01 AM

I don't think it matters anyway because there's no way in hell Houston does that deal.

FWIW I'd do it too since it's obvious that Bill doesn't see Henson as the quarterback of the ftuture.

chumdawg · 12-07-2005, 02:15 AM

What are you going on, Dirno?

Five-ofan · 12-07-2005, 02:42 AM

I would be going on the fact that he lists Romo as higher on the depth chart than Henson and has said that he thinks romo is better. Leinart is peyton manning version 2.0. Except he has been alot more of a winner in college. That trade would be with whoever has the second pick since Im assuming the texans would take bush. Eli manning got the number 3 pick a 3rd and a first the next year. I value leinart alot more than I valued Eli coming out.

chumdawg · 12-07-2005, 02:48 AM

Eli has bust written all over him. For what it's worth.

Five-ofan · 12-07-2005, 03:36 AM

Not exactly but I was never that big a fan of the qbs in that draft. I thought Ben was the best. Rivers would have been a bust even without a star in front of him. He has as bad a throwing motion as VY without the wheels.

capitalcity · 12-07-2005, 04:00 AM

I'm not sold on Leinhart - he's already 'tired' of playing football.

Whether or not henson is the future of the cowboys - bill is not. He'll be gone next year or soon there after. So you do draft a quarterback, but in the 4th or 5th and hope you end up with Tom Brady.

We'll be best off saving our first rounder for a saftey or OL.

Back on topic... Bush will not set the NFL on fire his first year. Maybe he'll hit on some spectacular special teams highlights, but should he be banished to the saints, texans or jets he'll get pounded. Those teams are freaking terrible, and at 6'0" 200lbs. he aint no workhorse.

Five-ofan · 12-07-2005, 04:45 AM

I just think that bush is incredibly overvalued right now. Yes he makes some amazing runs BUT he isnt this all time great that he is made out to be.

dirno2000 · 12-07-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

What are you going on, Dirno?

Nothing tangible, just what I picked up from reading between the lines in camp.

Also, I read somewhere that Bill told the Det. media on his weekly conference call that he was seriously thinking about sending Henson to Europe. That's pretty much a death sentence as far as I'm concerned.

sike · 12-07-2005, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I just think that bush is incredibly overvalued right now. Yes he makes some amazing runs BUT he isnt this all time great that he is made out to be.

have you seen the holes he's running through???..he won't see those in the NFL.

alby · 12-07-2005, 12:47 PM

and he wont be able to use that great stiff arm of his against NFL linebackers.

but you do have to admit.. his one plant juke cut is amazing.

alby · 12-07-2005, 12:48 PM

he'll be a great return guy IMO and a middle of the pack RB, depending on the team he ends up with...

it would be a shame if he ended up in Houston though, he would have a better OL in college than in the pros =p

Ninkobei · 12-07-2005, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Leinart is peyton manning version 2.0. Except he has been alot more of a winner in college. That trade would be with whoever has the second pick since Im assuming the texans would take bush. I value leinart alot more than I valued Eli coming out.

I'll take VY over Leinart any day of the week. I truely hope the cowboys get him.

snoop · 12-07-2005, 02:42 PM

bush will live up to every expection. he reminds me of marcus allen with a little more power.

#1MavsFan · 12-07-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I just think that bush is incredibly overvalued right now. Yes he makes some amazing runs BUT he isnt this all time great that he is made out to be.

It's hard to be overvalued when your averaging a staggering 8.9 yards a carry and are basically the sole reason your team is still undefeated today. The man can run, return, and catch unlike anyone I've ever seen. You simply just have to take him with the #1 pick, just on fact that he's probably the top prospect that's come out in a while. When was the last time we saw a RB like him? Probably never, he just does it all. Imagine if he was allowed to play for the whole game? If you aren't sold on him, go back and watch the Fresno and UCLA game.

Also it will be interesting to see who's picked first between Leinart and VY if Young decides to leave.

snoop · 12-07-2005, 05:05 PM

Vince Young, the next Randell Cunningham

jleefilled · 12-07-2005, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #1MavsFan

It's hard to be overvalued when your averaging a staggering 8.9 yards a carry and are basically the sole reason your team is still undefeated today. The man can run, return, and catch unlike anyone I've ever seen. You simply just have to take him with the #1 pick, just on fact that he's probably the top prospect that's come out in a while. When was the last time we saw a RB like him? Probably never, he just does it all. Imagine if he was allowed to play for the whole game? If you aren't sold on him, go back and watch the Fresno and UCLA game.

Also it will be interesting to see who's picked first between Leinart and VY if Young decides to leave.

Exactly. I use to be pretty skeptical about him, and then I saw him play. Right about the time I first watched him touch the football, I realized that this guy is very, very good. His highschool coach said that Bush use to sneak into the gym through a window at 6am just to get in some early lifting. That is how greatness is achieved, folks. Pure determination. One of my close friend's father is a Math professor at Harvard. This professor is basically authorized to hand out the Fields medal -- Math's equivalent to the Nobel Prize. HE believes that there is no such thing as genius, only those that work hard. Granted, the talent has to be there, but what makes Reggie Bush so special is his dedication. I'm a big believer in focus and determination. That is why I think drugs -- however harmless they may seem -- really hinders a person from reaching their full potential. (My two-cents)...

Five-ofan · 12-07-2005, 06:47 PM

He is a great college running back behind an incredible college oline. That said he is being made out to be an all time great and possible the best college football player ever when he isnt a top 10 college rb ever much less player. That is overvalued. I would love to have VY just because I am a huge UT fan but Im hoping he doesnt come out. VY would be hard to turn down. He is an incredible athlete who throws better than Vick does. He runs better too. Worst case scenario he would be an incredible receiver but Im very sure he will make it as a qb.

ocelot_ark · 12-07-2005, 08:47 PM

What makes you think VY could be a receiver?

Five-ofan · 12-07-2005, 09:11 PM

He is 6 5 runs a 4.4 to 4.5 is an incredible athlete, has great hands. Pretty much all the things that made people think Jones could be a receiver but VY would be better than Jones. He is a better runner. Not faster but much more elusive and powerful as far as avoiding tackles. I think VY will be fine as a qb. Its just that if that fails he could be a receiver as a fall back. My main point is that Bush is overvalued right now. He is not what he is made out to be. I have heard many even some on this board muse that he me may be the best college fb player ever. That is ridiculous. He isnt a top 10 rb ever and as far as a best college player ever discussion would go he isnt the best player in his own backfield. He can win the heisman this year. That is fine but even that isnt as cut and dried as its made out to be.

jleefilled · 12-07-2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

He is 6 5 runs a 4.4 to 4.5 is an incredible athlete, has great hands. Pretty much all the things that made people think Jones could be a receiver but VY would be better than Jones. He is a better runner. Not faster but much more elusive and powerful as far as avoiding tackles. I think VY will be fine as a qb. Its just that if that fails he could be a receiver as a fall back. My main point is that Bush is overvalued right now. He is not what he is made out to be. I have heard many even some on this board muse that he me may be the best college fb player ever. That is ridiculous. He isnt a top 10 rb ever and as far as a best college player ever discussion would go he isnt the best player in his own backfield. He can win the heisman this year. That is fine but even that isnt as cut and dried as its made out to be.

not the best player in his own backfield? I'm sorry but you completely lost me there. If White wasn't on USC he would likely have the most yards rushing in college football, period. I don't think I can say the same for White. He's a good runner, but some teams can just stop the man -- i.e. Notredame. If you watched any of the games where USC needed something out of somebody to keep their consecutive game winning streak alive, who did they turn to and who came through? Bush. He seems to thrive when his team needs him most. If that is not a sign of a great rb, I don't know what is. I can't comment on whether he's the greatest college football player or running back of all time because frankly, I haven't watched enough college football in my life. But, whether he is a top running back in college football right now, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind he is.

edit: DOH!!! I finally realized you were talking about Leinart!!! Sorry, 5-0. Whether Leinart is better than Bush is an interesting assertion, I would have to think about that some more. They are both pretty good, but Bush has a certain clutchness to him that I really appreciate. On the other hand, quarterback is probably the most important position on a team while good running backs seem to come a dime-a-dozen these days. It's certainly a chin-scratcher. Not that I think Bush is your everyday run-of-the-mill back, but I think Leinart is good enough to make it an argument.

#1MavsFan · 12-07-2005, 09:39 PM

Bush is averaging 2 whole yards more per carry than White. That alone is pretty impressive considering they both play behind the same O-line and that White is also supposed to be a top-notch running back. Bush makes so many people miss before he is finally taken, it's very rare that the first defensive player to put his hands on Bush will take him down. He also tends to make plays out of nothing, and usually they end up for 6. Reggie Bush is almost the perfect RB even his initials spell RB. His high school reels are just crazy, he basically ran over all 11 guys on his way to a TD.

With that being said, I'd still give the Heisman to VY since without him UT would be far worse than USC would be without Bush.

Five-ofan · 12-07-2005, 09:40 PM

White isnt the only other guy in that backfield. I meant Leinart. Bush is the best rb in college football right now. I think he is overrated and even I wont argue that point because there really isnt anyone to argue it with considering Adrian has been hurt. That said when Adrian gets healthy again I expect him to be better than bush. He was ALOT better last year.

Five-ofan · 12-07-2005, 09:48 PM

About the Bush vs leinart debate, Bush has been incredible for one year. Leinart has been great for 3. Leinart had enough of an edge built over the previous 2 years that the slight differential of bush over leinart this year doesnt make up for the big differential over the past 2.

jleefilled · 12-07-2005, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

About the Bush vs leinart debate, Bush has been incredible for one year. Leinart has been great for 3. Leinart had enough of an edge built over the previous 2 years that the slight differential of bush over leinart this year doesnt make up for the big differential over the past 2.

But... he's been incredible to the tune of people labeling him possibly the greatest ever, no? I know you don't like it, but you have to at least appreciate that he must be doing something pretty amazing to get that kind of praise.

jleefilled · 12-07-2005, 09:56 PM

I, for one, have watched my share of backs, including practically the entire career of Emmitt. I'll go out on a pretty sturdy limb, and say that I think Bush, barring any injuries, will have himself a very nice career in the NFL as a tailback.

Five-ofan · 12-07-2005, 10:04 PM

I think he will have a nice nfl career. Dont get me wrong the guy is a stud but he is so overrated right now its ridiculous. Off the top of my head college rbs who were better than bush.

Ricky Williams
Cedric Benson(yes he was better it was a crime that bush went to the heisman ceremony over him last year)
Ron Dayne
Tony Dorsett
Archie griffin
LT(questionable because he played at a smaller school.)
Billy Sims
OJ
Earl Cambell
Barry Sanders
Larry Johnson

This is by no means an exhaustive list, just a list off the top of my head. You can make an argument for alot of other people too.

jleefilled · 12-07-2005, 10:11 PM

I don't really know nor remember most of those players' college football careers, but if, a big if, USC wins the national title again this year, it will be very largely due to Bush. How many guys on that list can say they almost single-handedly carried a team to a NC? I think this is the reason why so many across the country are gushing over this guy. The fact that in every situation you think USC might get knocked out for the count, Bush does something spectacular. to keep them alive.

Five-ofan · 12-07-2005, 10:15 PM

Almost single handedly????? Come on man. They have probably the best oline in the country. His backup is the second best rb in the nation. They have the best pure qb in the nation and possibly in the history of college fb. They have 2 amazing receivers. It is nowhere near almost singlehandedly. Yes he has made some game saving plays but Leinart has made just as many.

jleefilled · 12-07-2005, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Almost single handedly????? Come on man. They have probably the best oline in the country. His backup is the second best rb in the nation. They have the best pure qb in the nation and possibly in the history of college fb. They have 2 amazing receivers. It is nowhere near almost singlehandedly. Yes he has made some game saving plays but Leinart has made just as many.

I don't know, man. In the games that I got to watch, USC looked completely one-dimensional on offense. Either give the ball to Bush or give the ball to White. The passing game seems to entirely feed off the running game. Not the other way around, imo. And when push came to shove, as I mentioned earlier, it was Bush that always would come through -- not White. Sure, they have a great offensive line, but so did the Cowboys, did that make Emmitt any less special? To be honest, I still think it was Emmitt that made that offensive line look as good as it looked.

Five-ofan · 12-07-2005, 10:23 PM

Im not trying to diminish bush by using the oline. UTs oline is a big reason why VY looks so great but to say that its one dimensional is crazy. How many SC games have you watched? Leinart is great. He has had some off games but the guy is gonna get 3rd in the heisman race and he should. Leinart made the big plays in the ND game at the end. Not bush. Yeah he pushed but leinart woulda got in anyway.

jleefilled · 12-07-2005, 10:27 PM

I watched only the second half of the ND game, and yeah, Leinart made a good clutch throw on that fourth down play. I thought it was luck, but yeah, I do remember now that Leinart came through for USC that day. But, though I don't recall any specifics, I'm pretty sure USC wouldn't have a had a chance in that game without Bush. Maybe I'm wrong, Bush was gimpy through a certain stretch of the season.

Five-ofan · 12-07-2005, 10:29 PM

Bush was amazing in the ND game but he has had several games where he wasnt. His heisman candidacy is based very largely on the last 2 games. He finished well and thats what counts so its ok.

jleefilled · 12-07-2005, 10:33 PM

In my view, the best thing about Leinart is his intelligence. I'm reminded about this by that fourth down play against ND. In that situation, with the crowd going nuts smelling upset, Leinart cooly audiblizes and converts a huge fourth down pass. I still thought it was luck -- what clutch play doesn't have a bit of luck in it -- but it was pretty impressive.

ocelot_ark · 12-08-2005, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

He is 6 5 runs a 4.4 to 4.5 is an incredible athlete, has great hands. Pretty much all the things that made people think Jones could be a receiver but VY would be better than Jones. He is a better runner. Not faster but much more elusive and powerful as far as avoiding tackles. I think VY will be fine as a qb. Its just that if that fails he could be a receiver as a fall back.

He has great hands? How the hell do you know that? Matt Jones played WR in high school (and QB) and spent lots of time at WR at Arkansas in practices and in some games his freshman and junior seasons. He had SOME experience. Matt is faster than VY, so we agree there. MJ owns the SEC's record for most rushing yards ever for a QB. That's certainly nothing to scoff at. You factor in the fact that no one respects Arkansas' ability to pass and that he played in the toughest conference in the world and the fact that he had the success he had is even more amazing. MJ is one of the most underrated athletes to come out of college in the last 10 years. How do you set that SEC QB rushing record, be a contributor for a D1 basketball team (not saying his numbers were great...but tough as hell, smart, and willing to do all the little things...perfect role player), and then set some type of record at the NFL combine for the 40 (no one that heighth and weight has ever run NEAR as fast as MJ did)...and STILL be doubted?

And no one here thought Matt Jones would be a good receiver but me and BBL. Everyone else here thought he'd be a bust. I'd like to here those same people's arguements now, cause MJ was a helluva lot more prepared for life as an NFL WR than VY will be if that's the route he's forced to go.

Five-ofan · 12-08-2005, 12:15 AM

VY will definitely start out as a qb and i think he will be fine at it. He is damn near as fast as Jones and he is CLEARLY a better football runner. Jones was just an incredible overall athlete though. Vince is about the same level of athlete but I dont mind giving a guy who runs a 4.42 at 240 lbs and has an over 40 inch vert the title of being a better athlete. That said I actually know someone who would beat the crap out of jones or Reggie Bush for that matter in a race.

ocelot_ark · 12-08-2005, 02:28 AM

I don't know where that CLEARLY better thing comes from...VY averages around 6.68 ypc for his career. For MJ's career he averaged 6.69 ypc (against vastly superior competition).