Who wants to dogpile Nelson after a rare loss? - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Bayliss · 01-06-2003, 07:01 PM

<< I assure you these same people would be like Nellie was a god, a genious , if we could have only kept Nellie, immediately after he is gone. Its just human nature. The grass will always be greener on the other side. >>

Basketball gods are usually the ones that have postseason success.

BrianJ · 01-06-2003, 07:23 PM

Gonna let that slide beings how I stole your icon and all so you cant be that far off of my decision making. I know Nellie has had like 25 years in crappy organizations. Still he cant start the playoffs tonight. He has got a great group of players that are exciting to watch even if they were not a top four team. Let the man have his chance now this is obviously the best team he has ever had and he continues to improve it.

MFFL · 01-06-2003, 08:49 PM

<< 4-1 exit by the Mavs? How did the Mavs play? Did they play hard and leave it all out on the court and get beat 1,2,3 points in the losses? It depends. Did the Mavs just miss their shots or did the Mavs get grossly out-coached? >>

By your standards how would we know if Nellie was outcoached?

kg_veteran · 01-06-2003, 11:02 PM

<< I think the real question is, how much failure do we, as fans, allow Nelson. What teams are acceptable to lose to in the playoffs and at what point in the playoffs? I get the impression that there is NO losing allowed by some people. I get the impression that it doesn't matter what Nelson does, or has done, if the Mavs don't win the championship, he ought to be fired. I don't agree with that. There are too many variables to give a yes or no answer. >>

David, I haven't heard ANYONE say that Nelson has to win the title this year in order to justify being given an extension. Also, how long is it going to take you to realize that Nellie's coaching contract expires at the end of the year? He can't be fired at the end of the season, unless Cuban wants a new GM.

The first year, getting into the playoffs was an accomplishment, anything was fine in the playoffs. Last year, more was expected. The Kings were the best team in the league last year, IMO. I didn't think so going in to the series but the Kings made a believer out of me. This year, who are the Mavs playing in the 2nd round? Mavs/Spurs? Tossup. Mavs/Lakers? Tossup. Mavs/Kings? The Mavs are underdogs.

4-1 exit by the Mavs? How did the Mavs play? Did they play hard and leave it all out on the court and get beat 1,2,3 points in the losses? It depends. Did the Mavs just miss their shots or did the Mavs get grossly out-coached? You say 4-1 exit, automatic firing for Nellie. It's not that simple.

Barring injury, if the Mavs go out 4-1 in the second round, I really think it is that simple, regardless of the opponent. Dallas should be able to go further than they did last year. Period.

<< The Lakers have won the championship THREE YEARS IN A ROW. They have to be considered a favorite, should they make the playoffs. Also two words: Shaq, Kobe.

The Spurs have Duncan and a point guard that Nash and NVE make look like an all-star every time they play the Mavs. The Spurs are a hurdle team for the Mavs. >>

You and I both agree that Dallas would be favored against these teams. You have always argued that Nellie didn't win in the past because he didn't have the favored team. Well, for once he will, and that excuse won't be present any more. I'll be disappointed if they lose to either of these teams in the playoffs.

<< The Kings have the best overall talent in the NBA, according to me. The Kings blew the championship last year by hitting only 50% of their free throws in the 7th game of the WCF. >>

We also agree that the Kings are the best overall team. The Mavericks should meet them in the WCF.

I'm going to say the Mavs should be favored against any of the other teams.

I agree.

Refs? Did you see the 76ers game the other day? Bradley was standing behind the 76ers center, not pushing or anything. Iverson was being guarded by a Mav, I forget who. This other Mav and the 76er's center were between Bradley and Iverson. The whistle blows. Foul, Shawn Bradley. This type of thing is not an isolated incident. Bradley is the key to the Mavs new and improved defense and he gets the respect of a 1st year free agent with the refs. Don't say that the refs can't or won't affect the playoffs.

I agree with you that refs can affect the playoffs, but I don't think that should even come up when discussing Nellie's ability to coach in the playoffs. Whether the Mavericks lose or win, you can't blame the refs. Nellie wouldn't stoop so low as to blame the refs if he does lose in the playoffs, and neither should we.

<< Surely you're not saying that just by firing Nellie that the next guy will do a better job are you? >>

Haven't we been over this? If the best job Nellie can do is get the team to the second round, I'm willing to take a chance on another coach to see if he can get them further, even if he doesn't.

<< Who says if Nelson is the coach that the Mavs are doomed to only be a contender but never the champion? There are currently 29 NBA teams. That means every year 28 coaches fail to win the championship. The best players tend to win. Shaq/Kobe three years in a row. Duncan one year. MJ and friends most of the last few years. None of those guys are on the Mavs. Our hope is Dirk with Nash and Fin helping out. I don't see Nelson's coaching as causing the Mavs to lose in the playoffs. On the contrary, Nelson is an asset, not to be thrown away lightly. >>

David, stop being a blind apologist. Nelson can't hide behind this excuse any more. He has as much talent (or more) than any team in the league.

<< Great players make great teams. I don't think some of you guys realize just how good a coach Nelson is. There are only a handful, in the world, that are better, IMO. It's a short list. >>

Nelson now HAS great players. It's time for him to make a great team out of them. In the playoffs.

Charlie Brown · 01-07-2003, 02:40 AM

wow, i was just procrastinating from my studies and came across this very interesting thread . . . probably the most interesting one i've read in my two years of posting on message boards, primarily mavtalk (although i decided to stop posting like 6 months ago as my life gets busier and my interest in sports begin to wane a bit)

but anyways, i just wanted to say that i agree with pretty much everything kg veteran has posted on here. and also some of the other posters who have been critical of nelson's coaching methods. i've also tried to post criticism of nelson before, but have only been met with backlash wherever i go.

i've always thought the mavs are a success today more because of nelson's abilities as a GM than as a coach, and also because of the deep pockets of mark cuban. many posters tend to forget that not many coaches and gms have the maneuvering flexibility that nelson has been given. guys like nve and raef are here primarily because of cuban. nelson should consider himself very lucky in this regard.

also, although the mavs are winning more these days, for some reason, i've become less of a fan. part of it is because i'm so busy, but another part is that i'm not a big fan of the mavs playing style. this "everybody has the green light to shoot" style of play works in the regular season because there's less nerves and tension and the opposition's defense is not as stifling, but come playoffs, rhythm is key and the mavs run-and-gun style can easily go awry as any case of nerves and tougher defense from the opposition can lead to many bad perimeter shooting nights. at some point, the mavs need to develop an inside game and start giving nowitzki the ball more deep in the post. i know nowitzki's not the best post player right now, but i feel the regular season is a good time for him to start getting comfortable down there before playoffs begin. anyways, there's a lot of other issues that bother me about the mavs, although the positives definitely outweight the cons at this point.

anyways, it's funny to see twodeep going off on his "everybody's being immature and need to be patient" bit that i've seen on mavtalk. i actually respect his posts but when he starts telling posters that they're not in the position to be analyzing the mavericks, i start to get a little defensive. there's a difference between constructive criticism and bashing and i don't think anyone's bashing the mavs here. we're all just continuously looking for ways to make the mavs better. hence, a message board, where everyone gets to be a virtual coach and gm.

anyways, my two cents. props to this board. i hardly visit here anymore, but from the looks of things, the board's doing just fine.

back to my studies

(hopefully, madape doesn't chew me out again this time.)

BrianJ · 01-07-2003, 03:41 AM

Hard to disagree with any of that. I always enjoyed your posts in the past. Feel kind of bad because of the things I post sometimes when you put it like that. Not sure if its just the coaching that could make you not enjoy this seaon though. You must really really hate Nellie for that to happen. I should have posted "searchin for Bobbi Fisher" instead of "Ghost"

MFFL · 09-17-2003, 11:00 PM

research bump