2019 Mavs Free Agency - Page 91 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

endtroducing MASKED · 07-11-2019, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

OKC = From 2020 to 2026: 15 first-round picks and the swap rights in 4 years.

Maybe the most flexibility in league history?

JJP · 07-11-2019, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

Maybe the most flexibility in league history?

By a country mile I would guess.

JJP · 07-11-2019, 08:53 PM

Nick Angstadt
‏
@NickVanExit
Since 2012, the last time Westbrook and Harden played together, only 2 players have attempted at least 10,000 shots.

James Harden 10,520
Russell Westbrook 10,342

The rest of the Rockets lineup might as well sit at the foul line and play cards... kind of like the old Harlem Globetrotters who had a comedy routine similar to that.

NeedlesKane · 07-11-2019, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

Nick Angstadt
‏
@NickVanExit
Since 2012, the last time Westbrook and Harden played together, only 2 players have attempted at least 10,000 shots.

James Harden 10,520
Russell Westbrook 10,342

The rest of the Rockets lineup might as well sit at the foul line and play cards... kind of like the old Harlem Globetrotters who had a comedy routine similar to that.

Allen Iverson had 11,920 attempts in a 7 year time span. Wilt Chamberlain had 17,068 attempts in his first 7 seasons. So yeah... it could be a whole lot worse.

NeedlesKane · 07-11-2019, 08:54 PM

The trade does not madden me. I just wish we could have gotten something out of it of course. Too bad they didn't need us to help complete it. I enjoyed watching those two play together. I went to two of the games in which the Mavericks defeated the Thunder in the playoffs. That team had Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Ibaka, and Perkins. I love how our team was simply too much for them. Game 1 of that series was one of the best I've seen in person. Dirk's 48 vs Durant's 40.

ChileanMavsFan · 07-11-2019, 08:57 PM

Man, the NBA Free agency is something else. I gotta recognize that Westbrook is one of my favorite players, so exciting to watch. He has some obvious flaws in his game but I think he is going to improve the Rockets, Chris Paul was declining fast.

As for the Mavs, it's getting increasingly likely we might not make the playoffs with how brutal the West is going to be. So all in on Porzingis coming back, developing chemistry with Luka and our young guys improving now. Hopefully we can work some trades to ditch out our bad contracts or find another good young piece to keep building a contender.

Five-ofan · 07-11-2019, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChileanMavsFan

Man, the NBA Free agency is something else. I gotta recognize that Westbrook is one of my favorite players, so exciting to watch. He has some obvious flaws in his game but I think he is going to improve the Rockets, Chris Paul was declining fast.

As for the Mavs, it's getting increasingly likely we might not make the playoffs with how brutal the West is going to be. So all in on Porzingis coming back, developing chemistry with Luka and our young guys improving now. Hopefully we can work some trades to ditch out our bad contracts or find another good young piece to keep building a contender.

I actually think this trade helps out chances at the playoffs. I don't think the rockets make it.

endtroducing MASKED · 07-11-2019, 08:58 PM

Paul may be traded again, according to Woj. Looking at Miami.

JJP · 07-11-2019, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

Paul may be traded again, according to Woj. Looking at Miami.

He'd better be. OKC has a terrible problem at PG... 4 of them. And one of them, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander should probably get the bulk of the minutes.

When you actually look at the OKC lineup.... it's pretty good. Not playoff good, but they could fix that by next year. OKC with Adams, Gallinari, and Alexander are not going to be a pushover.

NeedlesKane · 07-11-2019, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

Paul may be traded again, according to Woj. Looking at Miami.

I have a feeling the Mavericks will be involved with that one!

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-11-2019, 09:10 PM

But...I thought Paul and Harden were still pals?

Amarelooms · 07-11-2019, 09:17 PM

What would we need trade to get Adams. Could we get 1st round pick from okc

sefant77 · 07-11-2019, 09:22 PM

Morey lying to everyone that there were no Beef between Harden and Paul....lol

Paul isnt staying in OKC, he is going to demand a trade to Miami. Lakers got no contracts for the banana boat.

I still have some hope for Gallo

Five-ofan · 07-11-2019, 10:16 PM

How this trade hurts us is that in luka and kps prime the thunder are going to be absolutely effing loaded

EricaLubarsky · 07-11-2019, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

How this trade hurts us is that in luka and kps prime the thunder are going to be absolutely effing loaded

Even with 8+ picks, the odds of getting even one superstar is super low

Rockets aren’t Improved, but their draft picks should be 20-30. Not a lot of stars in that range. Other two are swaps. OKC drafts in lottery and Houston most likely drafts 20-30 so OKC only really gets two late firsts here.

mac222b · 07-11-2019, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Even with 8+ picks, the odds of getting even one superstar is super low

Rockets aren’t Improved, but their draft picks should be 20-30. Not a lot of stars in that range. Other two are swaps. OKC drafts in lottery and Houston most likely drafts 20-30 so OKC only really gets two late firsts here.

I haven’t looked but they are bound to have a few in the first year players are allowed to jump straight from high school again. That year even the 20’s will have huge value. They also have so much ammo to move up for a player or trade for one.

j0Shi · 07-12-2019, 03:59 AM

Listening to Skin Wade these days is too funny. Claims fans should act rationally and not emotionally while not getting that he's making emotional arguments himself, just at the other end of the available spectrum.

Five-ofan · 07-12-2019, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Even with 8+ picks, the odds of getting even one superstar is super low

Rockets aren’t Improved, but their draft picks should be 20-30. Not a lot of stars in that range. Other two are swaps. OKC drafts in lottery and Houston most likely drafts 20-30 so OKC only really gets two late firsts here.

The picks are in 2024 and 2026, it's extremely likely they are in the top half of the first round.

turin · 07-12-2019, 07:15 AM

I would love for OKC to keep tearing down their team and be left with only CP to play on a losing squad with a bunch of young guys. I bet a year or 2 of tanking might even drive him to the table to negotiate a buy out. LOL

Amarelooms · 07-12-2019, 07:37 AM

We need get Adams from okc

j0Shi · 07-12-2019, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amarelooms

We need get Adams from okc

Not a fan

AO41 · 07-12-2019, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Not a fan

Adams might be slightly overpaid but at 25 and his skill set and size he is one of the better fits with this Mavs team. If OKC continues to blow it up, I would be all over trying to get Adams.

ChileanMavsFan · 07-12-2019, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

Adams might be slightly overpaid but at 25 and his skill set and size he is one of the better fits with this Mavs team. If OKC continues to blow it up, I would be all over trying to get Adams.

I'd be OK with Adams. Yeah, he is a bit overpaid considering his lack of range and that he is a terrible free throw shooter, but his contract only has two more years (so we can keep cap space for 2021, plan powder anyone? are we getting Giannis? lol) and he provides good defense and rebounding. He is young and I think we are likely to be resting KP a lot this year, so it would be nice to have a solid starter at Center.

Might take us a few first rounders to snatch him though and other teams might be asking about him given that OKC is in rebuild mode, so I could see the FO not being interested.

AO41 · 07-12-2019, 08:38 AM

I can stand CP but if he stays in OKC, I can actually see them being a decent and maybe playoff team. Again as much as I can’t stand him he is a good floor general (PG) and while absolutely declining, he can still be good in the right situation.

CP
SAG
Gallo
?
Adams

with CP being able to run the offense how he want could be a pretty good starting 5 with Schroeder coming off the bench.

JJP · 07-12-2019, 09:09 AM

Regarding Adams, It's about value. I don't think the Mavs FO wants to spend 25m a year for 13 points and 9 rebounds a year. He's a good player, but his salary really limits the Mavs from getting an ace wing player at some future date.

If Powell starts, Per 36 Minutes, Powell will give you 17 points 9 rebounds
If Adams starts, Per 36 minutes, Adams will give you 15 points and 10 rebounds

This is not to say Powell is a better player inside. Adams is. But Powell spaces the floor a little better, makes the Mavs a little better in transition, and isn't a negative at shooting Free throws. I just don't see a good reason to put Adams on the floor at that price.

Jack.Kerr · 07-12-2019, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

Regarding Adams, It's about value. I don't think the Mavs FO wants to spend 25m a year for 13 points and 9 rebounds a year. He's a good player, but his salary really limits the Mavs from getting an ace wing player at some future date.

If Powell starts, Per 36 Minutes, Powell will give you 17 points 9 rebounds
If Adams starts, Per 36 minutes, Adams will give you 15 points and 10 rebounds

This is not to say Powell is a better player inside. Adams is. But Powell spaces the floor a little better, makes the Mavs a little better in transition, and isn't a negative at shooting Free throws. I just don't see a good reason to put Adams on the floor at that price.

Not to dispute the points that you make, but I would like Adams for the space he occupies, not the spacing he creates; the intangibles that he brings in terms of toughness, plus a little opportunistic production.

He is the type of hard-nosed player who would serve as a bodyguard for KP and Doncic, although admittedly he would be a very expensive enforcer.

At the other end of the spectrum for that TYPE of player was Kyle O'Quinn, who filled that role for KP in NY; but O'Quinn just signed with Philly for one-year vet minimum. Probably could've been had if Mavs were interested.

I don't think, though, that you can pass every acquisition opportunity by, waiting for some as yet undetermined 'ace wing player' to sign. My intuition is that Donnie is on the phone with the NYKs every day asking about Ntilikina, and the Knicks just keep hanging up on him; if the Mavs got a future #1 back along with Adams for providing the Thunder some cap relief (and Courtney Lee), then the Knicks might take that future #1 for Ntilikina; or the Mavs could just remove the protections on one of the #1s they already owe the Knicks.

JJP · 07-12-2019, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Not to dispute the points that you make, but I would like Adams for the space he occupies, not the spacing he creates; the intangibles that he brings in terms of toughness, plus a little opportunistic production.

He is the type of hard-nosed player who would serve as a bodyguard for KP and Doncic, although admittedly he would be a very expensive enforcer.

At the other end of the spectrum for that TYPE of player was Kyle O'Quinn, who filled that role for KP in NY; but O'Quinn just signed with Philly for one-year vet minimum. Probably could've been had if Mavs were interested.

I don't think, though, that you can pass every acquisition opportunity by, waiting for some as yet undetermined 'ace wing player' to sign. My intuition is that Donnie is on the phone with the NYKs every day asking about Ntilikina, and the Knicks just keep hanging up on him; if the Mavs got a future #1 back along with Adams for providing the Thunder some cap relief (and Courtney Lee), then the Knicks might take that future #1 for Ntilikina; or the Mavs could just remove the protections on one of the #1s they already owe the Knicks.

I'm certainly not saying that Powell is better. Adams is a better defender and rim protector. But we disagree in total value.

Adam's salary is literally over twice what Powell's is, and he is not, by any metric - defense or offense - twice as good as Powell. He would have to be "Giannis-like" in terms of being a difference maker.... and he's not. The salary is important as it relates to cap space, so it's not just a vacant number.

Even with the newer defensive metrics, Adams would not be twice the defender https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-defense/#fn-1

Even Valanciunas's new contract is 10 million a year cheaper than Adams. I'd like to have Adams, but I don't want him at that price. The stats say he wouldn't make enough of a difference on the Mavericks team to change anything in the standings.

purplefrog · 07-12-2019, 10:36 AM

I like Adams because the Mavs need rebounding. But, I think it is more likely the opportunity is either Olynyk or Leonard. Do the Mavs need rebounding or a stretch 5? They actually need a bit of both, but I don't see many options for a rebounding/rim protecting 5 that can also occasionally shoot from the perimeter.

Dieng might be a possibility, but are the Wolves interested in Paul? They might be, so that could be a possibility. Dieng's stats have fallen dramatically in the past couple of years, but his PT has also been reduced significantly.

endtroducing MASKED · 07-12-2019, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I like Adams because the Mavs need rebounding. But, I think it is more likely the opportunity is either Olynyk or Leonard. Do the Mavs need rebounding or a stretch 5? They actually need a bit of both, but I don't see many options for a rebounding/rim protecting 5 that can also occasionally shoot from the perimeter.

Dieng might be a possibility, but are the Wolves interested in Paul? They might be, so that could be a possibility. Dieng's stats have fallen dramatically in the past couple of years, but his PT has also been reduced significantly.

Dieng is a salary dump only. Negative asset. Been shopped for a year plus.

sefant77 · 07-12-2019, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

Regarding Adams, It's about value. I don't think the Mavs FO wants to spend 25m a year for 13 points and 9 rebounds a year. He's a good player, but his salary really limits the Mavs from getting an ace wing player at some future date.

If Powell starts, Per 36 Minutes, Powell will give you 17 points 9 rebounds
If Adams starts, Per 36 minutes, Adams will give you 15 points and 10 rebounds

This is not to say Powell is a better player inside. Adams is. But Powell spaces the floor a little better, makes the Mavs a little better in transition, and isn't a negative at shooting Free throws. I just don't see a good reason to put Adams on the floor at that price.

Doesnt work that way, Adams gifted Westbrick several rebounds per game so he can chase his TDs

saclare · 07-12-2019, 10:11 AM

Just to add to the Adams argument, I believe his stats would be even better by simply not playing with Westbrook. I think he sacrificed his body to blocking out sometime two guys so OKC guards could crash boards. Given the situation, I could easily see him averaging 15 and 15 somewhere else with high efficiency. He does have flaws, such as no range/spacing and he's not a great FT shooter, but he does something no one else on the team can do. Powell's similar per 36 stats are a much different style than Adams'.

Murphy3 · 07-12-2019, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Just to add to the Adams argument, I believe his stats would be even better by simply not playing with Westbrook. I think he sacrificed his body to blocking out sometime two guys so OKC guards could crash boards. Given the situation, I could easily see him averaging 15 and 15 somewhere else with high efficiency. He does have flaws, such as no range/spacing and he's not a great FT shooter, but he does something no one else on the team can do. Powell's similar per 36 stats are a much different style than Adams'.

You're right...everyone took a hit so Westbrook could chase his triple doubles...

saclare · 07-12-2019, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

You're right...everyone took a hit so Westbrook could chase his triple doubles...

I didn't say everyone but I can't decipher the tone of this response, sorry Murph!

I know from the games I watched OKC, Adams was doing dirty work on every possession. Kind of an unsung hero on that team and they wouldn't be nearly as good without him.

Murphy3 · 07-12-2019, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

I didn't say everyone but I can't decipher the tone of this response, sorry Murph!

I know from the games I watched OKC, Adams was doing dirty work on every possession. Kind of an unsung hero on that team and they wouldn't be nearly as good without him.

I agree with you... I think anyone that was on the court with Westbrook saw their rebounding numbers decrease at least a little so he could chase triple doubles.... With a guy like Adams, he probably saw a significant decrease.

sefant77 · 07-12-2019, 10:12 AM

The Thunder arent giving up a pick for Adams, they are going to ask for one.

They are going to save some with another Paul trade and the 125% rule. And to have someone like Adams in a young lockerroom is good too

Five-ofan · 07-12-2019, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

The Thunder arent giving up a pick for Adams, they are going to ask for one.

They are going to save some with another Paul trade and the 125% rule. And to have someone like Adams in a young lockerroom is good too

They offered adams for free last week and no one wanted him. He's a negative asset

AO41 · 07-12-2019, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

They offered adams for free last week and no one wanted him. He's a negative asset

Link?

I highly doubt this.

saclare · 07-12-2019, 10:12 AM

I believe OKC hangs on to Adams and deals CP, or negotiates a super low buy out so he can join some other squad. Don't think his ego can handle running that team.

SMC0007 · 07-12-2019, 10:28 AM

I'm not sure how effective Adams would be late in close games. Gets rebound, gets fouled, misses free throws. That is a pessimistic outlook on it, but for his salary I'd rather not have the concern.

Enforcer types are pointless in the NBA now. There is no fighting and the league is nowhere near as physical as it once was. I've read this here and on twitter and it doesn't move my needle. How is Adams any kind of protector or bodyguard for others? Is he going to play full back and escort Luka to the paint, or get in between Luka/KP when an opposing players wants to mouth off or shove them?

endtroducing MASKED · 07-12-2019, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I'm not sure how effective Adams would be late in close games. Gets rebound, gets fouled, misses free throws. That is a pessimistic outlook on it, but for his salary I'd rather not have the concern.

Enforcer types are pointless in the NBA now. There is no fighting and the league is nowhere near as physical as it once was. I've read this here and on twitter and it doesn't move my needle. How is Adams any kind of protector or bodyguard for others? Is he going to play full back and escort Luka to the paint, or get in between Luka/KP when an opposing players wants to mouth off or shove them?

He would be taken out for crunch time in any big game situation (if we manage to get in many of those).