Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Go Back   Dallas-Mavs.com Forums > Everything Else > Political Arena

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-27-2008, 11:32 AM   #1
92bDad
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 2,505
92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future
Default ACORN discussion - can we move this into one thread?

ACORN discussions are wrapped up into several threads so I was hoping that we could try to spin this into one thread to help clean up the board.

Now it appears as though we have two main ACORN topics:

Old news = ACORN's involvement on the housing crisis. This may deserve a thread all to itself but it's pretty clear that we two trains of thought.

1) there is plenty of evidence of the mob tactics that ACORN used to force banks to handout loans to underqualified or unqualified applicants...thus pushing the financial crisis of today.

How has this effected Americans? First those who signed up for the loans are in worse shape today as they no longer can afford to pay the loan back, they now have worse credit and their income is worth less. You can get into the psychological aspect of things...but this may not be the forum for this topic. At the end of the day, these folks that were in bad shape to begin with, are now in worse shape and have a good chance of not getting out of this mess in this lifetime...perhaps future generations of their families will make better choices and not get caught up in this failed liberal system.

There are other Americans also paying the price with the strongly felt recession we are in and the uncertainty of the immidiate future.

2) they had nothing to do with it...I'll let those who support this view discuss on this topic.


Now the other main topic that is being discussed is the current Voter Registration Fraud that is squarely at the hands of ACORN.

I recently read one argument from Mavsdog that stated it was not ACORN but rather those who work for ACORN. Then I also read from Mavsdog "How can anyone ge against getting those who are qualified to vote registered?"

I agree that all who are qualified to vote should be registered to vote. From what I can tell this is not a problem. All one has to do is go up to a Drivers License office and register. Unless someone is truly handicapped and can't go...their is no problem.

Now, should we go out of our way to register every walking body? Here might be were we disagree. I do agree if someone is physically incapable of going to a registration office, then let's find a way to provide a registration to them at their location or of providing handicapped transportation.

All others, we can get the word out, hand out flyers, speak to communities and let them know the where and how...but how can anyone not want a qualified voter to take responsibility for getting themselves registered? Are we so Co-Dependant that we have to do it for them?

Now on the subject of ACORN and its employees. If only one or two employees were guilty of such Voter Registration fraud, then sure we could see a unique case of a few individuals who reflect poorly of the ACORN mission...but correct me if I'm wrong, are these tactics not being detected in several key ground swing states? This is not an isolated case, but rather a trend that are heavily pointing towards ACORN. Where is the line of responsibility on an organization such as ACORN?

It appears to my eyes that we have an organization and a group of citizens trying to do whatever it takes to get what they want in this election. They are throwing what they can at the wall to see what sticks and then when something is caught and found to be illegal they are playing naive.

This is not one or two isolated incidents, but rather Thousands of instances of Voter Registration Fraud. No it is NOT voter fraud until a fraudulant vote has been cast...but how can we not question the voting process with the sheer numbers of registration fraud?

Was it not ACORN that originally reported some 1.3 Million new registered voters, and now they have repealed that number to 400K?

Now what does this do...first it cast major doubt on the upcoming election and the voting in general. Second it plays mind games with those who have followed the system in a legit way. For some, they will be discouraged and perhaps even lose the courage to stand up and vote.

In essense we are witnessing history as we are watching ACORN as an organization manipulate the very foundation of the American Voting System.
92bDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 12:20 PM   #2
Big Boy Laroux
Diamond Member
 
Big Boy Laroux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,673
Big Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I've got an even better idea for cleaning up the board.

STOP POSTING.
__________________
Big Boy Laroux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 12:25 PM   #3
92bDad
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 2,505
92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux View Post
I've got an even better idea for cleaning up the board.

STOP POSTING.

Nice to know that BigBoy support ACORN and believes that we have no problems to discuss regarding ACORN.

You are such a valued member that provides such great enlightenment to thread discussions.

We are all looking forward to your advanced wisdom...perhaps we can elect you to some political office???

Please tell us your platform and how this equates to the thread about ACORN.
92bDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 12:31 PM   #4
Big Boy Laroux
Diamond Member
 
Big Boy Laroux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,673
Big Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond reputeBig Boy Laroux has a reputation beyond repute
Default

You are such a beating, dude.

my honest opinion about ACORN and the "voter fraud"?

ACORN isn't committing the fraud, they are the ones being defrauded. They pay people to go out and register voters. These people open up phone books and register anybody, even Mickey Mouse, so they can get paid by ACORN.

Is Mickey Mouse actually going to vote? Are the dead people? Are the 2nd graders? Of course not.


This just boils down to this - The more people that VOTE (not just register), the better it is for the Democratic party. That's why Republicans don't stress regsitration as much as the Democratic party, and that's why false registrations are causing the Republicans to be up in arms.


but again i Stress, for the love of god. PLEASE STOP POSTING. You don't know politics. I'm not even sure why you're even on this board, as you don't really follow the mavs or know much about basketball.
__________________
Big Boy Laroux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 02:46 PM   #5
92bDad
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 2,505
92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future
Default

BBL,

Dude, my issues with the Mavs is pure frustration. I'm a freakin die-hard, but I get pissed at the crap that has happened over the past few years. I've lived and died Mavs since I was a kid in the 80's.

Today, I happen to be a fan who believes there are some serious inconsistancies with the NBA...or perhaps more consistancies that support the conspiracies about the NBA than we would all like to admit.

But that is a topic for the Mavs part of this board. So I'll wait and post on the Mavs section for your pleasure :-)

So in regards to ACORN, you are saying that ACORN is NOT responsible for the employee's that ACORN hired.

You talk about ACORN wanting to get all the qualified voters registered...when is the last time we have seen ACORN enter into afluent, educated, business complex' to ensure that these people where all registered? Why does it appear that ACORN is only going after those who are of lower means within this society? Why does ACORN appear to be going after those to promote Class Wars rather than having integrity and promote voter registration to all?

Why did ACORN push banks to give out loans to unqualified individuals? Often times bringing on negative publicity and even the prospect of legal action to banks who wanted to maitain a FINANCIAL standard around issuing loans?

The concept of ACORN is a good thing...but the execution or tactics that ACORN has taken have flat out been wrong for this nation. They are serving a group of people with low financial means and they are facilitating these individuals to remain in a dependant state, thus providing power to ACORN and the people that ACORN selects to be in various political offices.

ACORN is using mob mentality to reshape the country. This is a very dangerous game and one candidate stands as the shining example of ACORN.

Perhaps your understanding of politics is simply different than mine, or perhaps you are a bit jaded or manipulated in your view.
92bDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 03:10 PM   #6
Mavdog
Diamond Member
 
Mavdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,014
Mavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92bDad View Post
So in regards to ACORN, you are saying that ACORN is NOT responsible for the employee's that ACORN hired.
they were not employees, they were contract workers.

Quote:
You talk about ACORN wanting to get all the qualified voters registered...when is the last time we have seen ACORN enter into afluent, educated, business complex' to ensure that these people where all registered? Why does it appear that ACORN is only going after those who are of lower means within this society? Why does ACORN appear to be going after those to promote Class Wars rather than having integrity and promote voter registration to all?
the lower income are the ones who traditionally were denied the opportunity to register and to vote. those were the ones who had poll taxes thrust as barriers, etc. these are where the highest rates of non-regiatered people are at. it is only logical that these would be the groups who are targeted for registration.

as for "class wars", well, that is not the goal.

Quote:
Why did ACORN push banks to give out loans to unqualified individuals? Often times bringing on negative publicity and even the prospect of legal action to banks who wanted to maitain a FINANCIAL standard around issuing loans?
you are incorrect, acorn pushed banks to lend in areas of lower income people. as for if these were "unqualified", that was up to the bank to determine, and acorn NEVER forced banks to lend to people who were unqualified...unless you want to argue that all lower income people are unqualified. are you?

there was a long tradition of redlining by banks that suppressed economic development in those areas. acorn was aggressive in stopping the redlining. do you know what redlining is?

second, banks and other mortgage lenders wanted to give these loans to credit risk borrowers, they made more money in doing so. no one forced lenders to make these sub-prime loans, lenders did so because it was very, very profiable, and they could sell these loans.
Mavdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 03:25 PM   #7
92bDad
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 2,505
92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavdog View Post
they were not employees, they were contract workers.

Now we are talking semantics...employees or contract workers...who is cutting the check to pay these people? Who then is ultimately responsible for the decisions to hire these people and in turn the tactics that these people use.



the lower income are the ones who traditionally were denied the opportunity to register and to vote. those were the ones who had poll taxes thrust as barriers, etc. these are where the highest rates of non-regiatered people are at. it is only logical that these would be the groups who are targeted for registration.

First there is no one DENIED the opportunity to register... we all have an equal opportunity to go down to the local DMV and register to vote.

As for highest reates of non-registered voters...sure target them, but why would you NOT target other areas of non-registered voters? Are these business communities not worthy of ensuring that they are registered?

as for "class wars", well, that is not the goal. - Oh Okay...if you say so, but I'm not buyin...just an opinion so not worth the debate.



you are incorrect, acorn pushed banks to lend in areas of lower income people. as for if these were "unqualified", that was up to the bank to determine, and acorn NEVER forced banks to lend to people who were unqualified...unless you want to argue that all lower income people are unqualified. are you?

My apologies as I don't have the links at my side...but as the stories have indicated, banks had standards in which some people were not originally qualified for a loan, based on "Financial" reasons - they well within the law and yet ACORN threatened Legal/Civil actions under Equal Opportunity based on Ethnic reasons. - The banks fearful of the backlash, regardless of the merit of the threats behind ACORN didn't have the courage to stand up to this manipulation. As a result they changed their standards and starting dishing out riskier loans, basically to people who had originally NOT qualified.

there was a long tradition of redlining by banks that suppressed economic development in those areas. acorn was aggressive in stopping the redlining. do you know what redlining is?

For this I will plead ignorance...so please educate me on redlining.

second, banks and other mortgage lenders wanted to give these loans to credit risk borrowers, they made more money in doing so. no one forced lenders to make these sub-prime loans, lenders did so because it was very, very profiable, and they could sell these loans.
Wrong, the banks were intimidated by the threat of civil action from ACORN...they feared the loss of business due to negative publicity feeding negative perceptions.

In the end, people who would have otherwise NOT gotten a loan were granted loans. Today, many of these people are now in worse shape...not only can they no longer pay on this loan, they are being forced out of their homes with little to no hope of paying the bad debt, clearing up their credit or benefiting from this entrapment.

Is ACORN doing anything to educate the people within their community on how to live on a CASH plan and to stay off of credit? I'm simply asking, I'm curious to see if ACORN has adopted a plan of or like that of Dave Ramsey?

Do they want their communities to gain true wealth or to appear to have wealth...what's more important, reality or perception to ACORN?
92bDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 03:43 PM   #8
Mavdog
Diamond Member
 
Mavdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,014
Mavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92bDad View Post
Wrong, the banks were intimidated by the threat of civil action from ACORN...they feared the loss of business due to negative publicity feeding negative perceptions.
again, you are mistaken. the work of acorn was for banks to give loans, not to give loans to anybody regardless of their ability to pay those loans.

show me where acorn forced any bank to make a loan to a borrower who should not have qualified....

Quote:
In the end, people who would have otherwise NOT gotten a loan were granted loans. Today, many of these people are now in worse shape...not only can they no longer pay on this loan, they are being forced out of their homes with little to no hope of paying the bad debt, clearing up their credit or benefiting from this entrapment.

Is ACORN doing anything to educate the people within their community on how to live on a CASH plan and to stay off of credit? I'm simply asking, I'm curious to see if ACORN has adopted a plan of or like that of Dave Ramsey?

Do they want their communities to gain true wealth or to appear to have wealth...what's more important, reality or perception to ACORN?
dave ramsey? for lowest income people? pretty funny.

you have a very limited understanding of economically depressed areas, and it appears that you do not understand what redlining is.

they didn't really have any debt because there was no no bank which would loan them anything. no new businesses, no new homes, no home ownership, no better education. that situation kept the lowest income households just that...lowest income.

that is the reality. that is what acorn was changing.
Mavdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 04:03 PM   #9
kg_veteran
Old School Balla
 
kg_veteran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,097
kg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavdog View Post
again, you are mistaken. the work of acorn was for banks to give loans, not to give loans to anybody regardless of their ability to pay those loans.

show me where acorn forced any bank to make a loan to a borrower who should not have qualified....
This is an easy blanket statement for you to make, because you know that it is difficult to do.

What we can do, however, is apply common sense. We know that ACORN threatened litigation against banks that wouldn't lend to lower income borrowers. Now, if these loans were so profitable and banks knew that they could make more money making them (as you assert), then why would ACORN need to threaten litigation? If what you suggest were entirely true, it doesn't seem that any coercion would have been required.

I'm not saying that greed by the banks can be taken entirely out of the equation, but it seems illogical that you'd have to coerce a bank into lending practices that were more profitable.
__________________
The Official KG Twitter Feed
kg_veteran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 04:12 PM   #10
92bDad
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 2,505
92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future
Default An article with more information about ACORN

The ACORN Obama Knows
Michelle Malkin

If you don’t know what ACORN (the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) is all about, you better bone up. This left-wing group takes in 40 percent of its revenues from American taxpayers — you and me — and has leveraged nearly four decades of government subsidies to fund affiliates that promote the welfare state and undermine capitalism and self-reliance, some of which have been implicated in perpetuating illegal immigration and encouraging voter fraud. A new whistleblower report from the Consumer Rights League claims that Chicago-based ACORN has commingled public tax dollars with political projects.

Who in Washington will fight to ensure that your money isn’t being spent on these radical activities?

Don’t bother asking Barack Obama. He cut his ideological teeth working with ACORN as a “community organizer” and legal representative. Naturally, ACORN’s political action committee has warmly endorsed his presidential candidacy. ACORN head Maude Hurd gushes that Obama is the candidate who “best understands and can affect change on the issues ACORN cares about” — like ensuring their massive pipeline to your hard-earned money. Let’s take a closer look at the ACORN Obama knows.

Last July, ACORN settled the largest case of voter fraud in the history of Washington State. Seven ACORN workers had submitted nearly 2,000 bogus voter registration forms. According to case records, they flipped through phone books for names to use on the forms, including “Leon Spinks,” “Frekkie Magoal” and “Fruto Boy Crispila.” Three ACORN election hoaxers pleaded guilty in October. A King County prosecutor called ACORN’s criminal sabotage “an act of vandalism upon the voter rolls.”

The group’s vandalism on electoral integrity is systemic. ACORN has been implicated in similar voter fraud schemes in Missouri, Ohio and at least 12 other states. The Wall Street Journal noted: “In Ohio in 2004, a worker for one affiliate was given crack cocaine in exchange for fraudulent registrations that included underage voters, dead voters and pillars of the community named Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy and Jive Turkey. During a congressional hearing in Ohio in the aftermath of the 2004 election, officials from several counties in the state explained ACORN’s practice of dumping thousands of registration forms in their lap on the submission deadline, even though the forms had been collected months earlier.”

In March, Philadelphia elections officials accused the nonprofit advocacy group of filing fraudulent voter registrations in advance of the April 22nd Pennsylvania primary. The charges have been forwarded to the city district attorney’s office.

Under the guise of “consumer advocacy,” ACORN has received money from the Department of Housing and Urban Development. HUD funds hundreds, if not thousands, of left-wing “anti-poverty” groups across the country led by ACORN. Last October, HUD announced more than $44 million in new housing counseling grants to over 400 state and local efforts. The White House has increased funding for housing counseling by 150 percent since taking office in 2001, despite the role most of these recipients play as activist satellites of the Democratic Party. The AARP scored nearly $400,000 for training; the National Council of La Raza (”The Race”) scooped up more than $1.3 million; the National Urban League raked in nearly $1 million; and the ACORN Housing Corporation received more than $1.6 million.

As the Consumer Rights League points out in its new expose, the ACORN Housing Corporation has worked to obtain mortgages for illegal aliens in partnership with Citibank. It relies on undocumented income, “under the table” money, which may not be reported to the Internal Revenue Service. Moreover, the group’s “financial justice” operations attack lenders for “exotic” loans, while recommending 10-year interest-only loans (which deny equity to the buyer) and risky reverse mortgages. Whistleblower documents reveal internal discussions among the group that blur the lines between its tax-exempt housing work and its aggressive electioneering activities. The group appears to shake down corporate interests with relentless PR attacks, and then enters “no lobby” agreements with targeted corporations after receiving payment.

Republicans have largely looked the other way as ACORN has expanded its government-funded empire. But finally, a few conservative voices in Congress have called for investigation of the group’s apparent extortion schemes. This week, GOP Reps. Tom Feeney, Jeb Hensarling and Ed Royce called on Democrat Barney Frank, chair of the House Financial Services Committee, to convene a hearing to probe potential illegalities and abuse of taxpayer funds by ACORN’s management and minions alike.

Where does the candidate of Hope and Change — the candidate of Reform and New Politics — stand on the issue? Barack Obama, ACORN’s senator, is for more of the same old, same old subsidizing of far-left politics in the name of fighting for the poor while enriching ideological cronies. It’s the Chicago way.

__________________________________________________ __________________

I didn't realize that ACORN was recieving Government money...so not only are they conducting Fraudulant Voter Registration and actually for quite some time, they are also defrauding the government and essentially stealing tax dollars from you and I!!!

This article points to the apparent extortion schemes.

Again the concept of ACORN to be an advocacy group for underdeveloped communities and to help those in Genuine need is admorable...but the actions show a very corrupt organization that is exploiting the peope they claim to help and essentially blackmailing the government and other entities for power and money.

The Republicans are guilty for looking away for so long...but now they have blown the whistle and it is time that the Democrats reach across the aisle and unite America against ACORN and those associated with ACORN.
92bDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 09:07 PM   #11
Mavdog
Diamond Member
 
Mavdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,014
Mavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud of
Default

too funny. michelle malkin using the faux "consumer rights league" to make her point.

birds of a feather....
Mavdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 12:03 PM   #12
92bDad
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 2,505
92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future
Default

Here's a link:

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2105242/posts?page=5

How ACORN helps UNdocumented people get loans - this is a grey area, but again this puts ACORN involved in very risky and shady deals.

Would ACORN fight for the rights of legal citizens to protect their investments?

I'll keep digging up links...but a bit later, as I have to get out for a flight.

Mavsdog, nice back/forth feedback. Nothing personal, just some disagreements with how we view or interpret what is being reported.

I have my views, in that I believe ACORN is about as crooked as they come...again MY opinion. I will dig up articles and other references for you to read and analyze on your own.

Take care...my apologies, but I gotta run or miss my flight...
92bDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 12:25 PM   #13
Mavdog
Diamond Member
 
Mavdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,014
Mavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92bDad View Post
Here's a link:

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2105242/posts?page=5

How ACORN helps UNdocumented people get loans - this is a grey area, but again this puts ACORN involved in very risky and shady deals.

Would ACORN fight for the rights of legal citizens to protect their investments?

I'll keep digging up links...but a bit later, as I have to get out for a flight.

Mavsdog, nice back/forth feedback. Nothing personal, just some disagreements with how we view or interpret what is being reported.

I have my views, in that I believe ACORN is about as crooked as they come...again MY opinion. I will dig up articles and other references for you to read and analyze on your own.

Take care...my apologies, but I gotta run or miss my flight...
it seems the question that should be asked is if illegal foreign nationals residing in the usa should be allowed to purchase real estate in the usa.

if the answer is yes, then acorn and the banks did nothing wrong.

if the answer is no, then the banks and acorn are doing something wrong.

btw, the foreigners purchasing real property in the usa must complete a form called FIRPTA (foreign investor in real property tax act) to take title to real estate.

second, the article you posted contains this: "this could be accomplished just with a Taxpayer Identification Number", so there was no attempt to circumvent the regulations.
Mavdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 10:04 AM   #14
Mavdog
Diamond Member
 
Mavdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,014
Mavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud of
Default

yeah kg, going to the acorn website and looking at what they are actually doing and promoting, rather than relying on opinon hit pieces by people such a kurtz, is just...well, just too direct and logical isn't it?
Mavdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 10:13 AM   #15
Silk Smoov
Banned
 
Silk Smoov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,885
Silk Smoov is a splendid one to beholdSilk Smoov is a splendid one to beholdSilk Smoov is a splendid one to beholdSilk Smoov is a splendid one to beholdSilk Smoov is a splendid one to beholdSilk Smoov is a splendid one to beholdSilk Smoov is a splendid one to beholdSilk Smoov is a splendid one to beholdSilk Smoov is a splendid one to beholdSilk Smoov is a splendid one to beholdSilk Smoov is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavdog View Post
yeah kg, going to the acorn website and looking at what they are actually doing and promoting, rather than relying on opinon hit pieces by people such a kurtz, is just...well, just too direct and logical isn't it?
That makes too much sense...
Silk Smoov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 10:15 AM   #16
kg_veteran
Old School Balla
 
kg_veteran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,097
kg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavdog View Post
yeah kg, going to the acorn website and looking at what they are actually doing and promoting, rather than relying on opinon hit pieces by people such a kurtz, is just...well, just too direct and logical isn't it?
The reason we can't seem to agree is that you attribute no wrongdoing to ACORN in this whole matter.

You probably don't attribute any wrongdoing to ACORN in all of the voter fraud scams, either.
__________________
The Official KG Twitter Feed
kg_veteran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 12:05 PM   #17
Mavdog
Diamond Member
 
Mavdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,014
Mavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kg_veteran
The reason we can't seem to agree is that you attribute no wrongdoing to ACORN in this whole matter.

You probably don't attribute any wrongdoing to ACORN in all of the voter fraud scams, either.
"wrongdoing"? no, I can't see that acorn was guilty of "wrongdoing" in pursuing their goals of better accessibility to housing, and an even chance by minorities and lower income people at getting a lender to make a loan rather than the lender determining that they wouldn't make loans to "those people".

do you see that as "wrongdoing"?

do I see the idea that everyone should own a home illconceived? absolutely, some people have no business owning a home if they are not responsible enough.

as for the voter registration frauds, the "wrongdoing" was committed by the contract workers who cheated.

should acorn have improved systems to catch these worker's cheating? absolutely.

is the system where acorn pays the worker for each voter registration card full of potential problems such as the fraud we've heard about? absolutely.

is acorn committing "wrongdoing" by attempting to register as many eligible voters as can be registered? no.

do you believe that there should not be any private based efforts made to register eligible voters?
Mavdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 12:20 PM   #18
kg_veteran
Old School Balla
 
kg_veteran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,097
kg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond reputekg_veteran has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavdog View Post
"wrongdoing"? no, I can't see that acorn was guilty of "wrongdoing" in pursuing their goals of better accessibility to housing, and an even chance by minorities and lower income people at getting a lender to make a loan rather than the lender determining that they wouldn't make loans to "those people".

do you see that as "wrongdoing"?
What I see as wrongdoing is the effective blackmail of lenders into lowering credit standards so that people who shouldn't have been getting mortgages were. What I also see as wrongdoing is ACORN getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by these banks (in addition to the relaxation of credit standards) so that they wouldn't create a fuss.

Quote:
do I see the idea that everyone should own a home illconceived? absolutely, some people have no business owning a home if they are not responsible enough.
Or, if they simply don't have enough income to afford it. Providing a mortgage to a person that can't afford it does them no favors.

Quote:
as for the voter registration frauds, the "wrongdoing" was committed by the contract workers who cheated.

should acorn have improved systems to catch these worker's cheating? absolutely.

is the system where acorn pays the worker for each voter registration card full of potential problems such as the fraud we've heard about? absolutely.
It seems like we're on the same page here.

Quote:
is acorn committing "wrongdoing" by attempting to register as many eligible voters as can be registered? no.

do you believe that there should not be any private based efforts made to register eligible voters?
I don't have any problem with private efforts to register voters. I do have a problem with trying to register unqualified voters to vote.
__________________
The Official KG Twitter Feed
kg_veteran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 12:41 PM   #19
Mavdog
Diamond Member
 
Mavdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,014
Mavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kg_veteran View Post
What I see as wrongdoing is the effective blackmail of lenders into lowering credit standards so that people who shouldn't have been getting mortgages were. What I also see as wrongdoing is ACORN getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by these banks (in addition to the relaxation of credit standards) so that they wouldn't create a fuss.
your vision may be, say, clouded in it's accuracy.

acorn was paid by banks for counseling services, as well as for the ventures the banks and acorn formed to facilitate first time home buyers getting into their homes. banks do that with a variety of public and private groups.

again, do you see better accesibility to housing and lending by minorities and lower income households wrong? that is the mission of acorn.

Quote:
Or, if they simply don't have enough income to afford it. Providing a mortgage to a person that can't afford it does them no favors.
that is true for all income strata, low income, middle income or high income, and the lenders should be doing the qualifying to determine if the borrower can perform.

Quote:
I don't have any problem with private efforts to register voters. I do have a problem with trying to register unqualified voters to vote.
It seems like we're on the same page here.
Mavdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 10:47 AM   #20
92bDad
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 2,505
92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future
Default

I love this...nothing like going to the place in question to form an opinion.

After all, if you go into the Dallas Cowboys press conferences, websites, etc...I'm certain that they would tell you all is well with the Cowboys. There are no issues and the team and organization are doing great and will continue to do well with the season.

Meanwhile, when you jump to outside opinion pieces...you find problems with Starting CB's being suspended or injured, you find a starting QB injured and a back-up who can't play.

You have outsiders questioning the decisions of Jerry Jones and stating that he is ultimately responsible for the actions of the team.

But you go back to Jerry and he believes he's doing a fine job.


Hmmmm...I wonder if you take this analogy to ACORN, what would it say.

ACORN - website and so forth talk about the great things ACORN does. You don't see one mention of any controversy within ACORN tactics...it's all good.

Outside sources who share data and funnel opinion - Questions about tactics used to influence or even force bad lending practices. Questions regarding voter registration fraud and the tactics from ACORN people, which brings into question ACORN itself.

Let me go one step further...ask me about me....I love me some me, I don't have any issues...no go ask Silk about me, I'm certain silk would have some negative things to say about me.

Point is, we can all find the data to support our view and as it stands, we are not going to change the minds of most posters on this site...but rather, we will have a serious case of "I told you so" a few years down the road when we can show our point as being correct...trust me both sides will be doing this...thus the debate will rage on and on.
92bDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 11:05 AM   #21
DirkFTW
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,249
DirkFTW has a reputation beyond reputeDirkFTW has a reputation beyond reputeDirkFTW has a reputation beyond reputeDirkFTW has a reputation beyond reputeDirkFTW has a reputation beyond reputeDirkFTW has a reputation beyond reputeDirkFTW has a reputation beyond reputeDirkFTW has a reputation beyond reputeDirkFTW has a reputation beyond reputeDirkFTW has a reputation beyond reputeDirkFTW has a reputation beyond repute
Default

We like our team.
__________________


Is this ghost ball??
DirkFTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 12:24 PM   #22
mary
Troll Hunter
 
mary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sports Heaven!
Posts: 9,898
mary has a reputation beyond reputemary has a reputation beyond reputemary has a reputation beyond reputemary has a reputation beyond reputemary has a reputation beyond reputemary has a reputation beyond reputemary has a reputation beyond reputemary has a reputation beyond reputemary has a reputation beyond reputemary has a reputation beyond reputemary has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I read somewhere that ACORN doesn't have the authority to NOT send in registration applications.

They are required by law to send in their applications....alll of them.

Is that true?
__________________

"I don't know what went wrong," said guard Thabo Sefolosha. "It's hard to talk about it."
mary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 12:38 PM   #23
Kirobaito
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,012
Kirobaito has a brilliant futureKirobaito has a brilliant futureKirobaito has a brilliant futureKirobaito has a brilliant futureKirobaito has a brilliant futureKirobaito has a brilliant futureKirobaito has a brilliant futureKirobaito has a brilliant futureKirobaito has a brilliant futureKirobaito has a brilliant futureKirobaito has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mary View Post
I read somewhere that ACORN doesn't have the authority to NOT send in registration applications.

They are required by law to send in their applications....alll of them.

Is that true?
Yes. They flag the ones that look suspicious, but they are legally obligated to send in every application they get.
__________________
Kirobaito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 01:09 PM   #24
92bDad
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 2,505
92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future92bDad has a brilliant future
Default

Mavsdog,

Are you willing to give ACORN any Negative Responsibility for events that have taken place?

I have read a few different items that ACORN is implicated to being a part of the Lending/Financial collapse and the voter registration fraud. Yes their are other entities also responsible and deserving of being called out...and they have been. Banks and Contractors...however ACORN was and is also involved with these other parties, yet you appear to be unwilling to acknowledge the part that ACORN plays in these negative activities.

If we site sources, you discredit those sources...you give the appearance that you are unwilling to scrutinize when it comes to ACORN.

Is this a wrong perception?

If you were to list off the questionable activities by ACORN, what would they be?
92bDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 01:32 PM   #25
Mavdog
Diamond Member
 
Mavdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,014
Mavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92bDad View Post
Mavsdog,

Are you willing to give ACORN any Negative Responsibility for events that have taken place?

I have read a few different items that ACORN is implicated to being a part of the Lending/Financial collapse and the voter registration fraud. Yes their are other entities also responsible and deserving of being called out...and they have been. Banks and Contractors...however ACORN was and is also involved with these other parties, yet you appear to be unwilling to acknowledge the part that ACORN plays in these negative activities.

If we site sources, you discredit those sources...you give the appearance that you are unwilling to scrutinize when it comes to ACORN.

Is this a wrong perception?

If you were to list off the questionable activities by ACORN, what would they be?
first of all, it's MAVDOG, no "s", and named after the lovable dog mascot that once graced us in the ole reunion arena. remember how mavdog would be up on the screen? yep, those were good times....

yes, you have the wrong "perception".

as others have pointed out, acorn is obligated by law to forward to the registrar ALL voter registrations that the contract workers (that means they are not employees of acorn) turn in.

as a matter of record, acorn staff examine these registrations and put those that they deem to be suspicious under wrap with a designation for the registrar to look closely at those specific ones. so they are clearly doing what they can to identify and stop the fraudulent registrations these contract workers turn in.

as for the "lending/financial collapse", if the situation was borne on the back of low income or affordable housing lending than yes they would have some role; however, that is not the case, and the mortgage mess is much more widespread than merely in these segments. it is inaccurate to place the blame on acorn, on the cra, or on affordable housing.

the blame for the mortgage meltdown is not solely on any one group, it is shared by the underwriters of the mbs, the lenders who made stupid loans, borrowers who thought that the home values would keep going up and up, and mortgage brokers who put borrowers into loans that were structered in such a way to induce the borrower to complete the loan today when they couldn't afford it tomorrow. that is not acorn btw.

as for what acorn does that I would change, it is the process of paying contract workers for the registrations. paying them by the registration card is just an invitation for fraud imo.

Last edited by Mavdog; 10-29-2008 at 01:33 PM.
Mavdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 02:50 PM   #26
ocelot_ark
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,629
ocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud of
Default

I want to know what "incentives" are available to banks that meet the CRA. There are penalties for NOT meeting it, but what are the "incentives?"
__________________
ocelot_ark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 02:56 PM   #27
Mavdog
Diamond Member
 
Mavdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,014
Mavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud ofMavdog has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocelot_ark View Post
I want to know what "incentives" are available to banks that meet the CRA. There are penalties for NOT meeting it, but what are the "incentives?"
there is a positive result with regulatory agencies for opening branches, acquisitions/mergers. not to mention the positive responses from the locals who are now getting bank services.
Mavdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 04:55 PM   #28
ocelot_ark
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,629
ocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud ofocelot_ark has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavdog View Post
there is a positive result with regulatory agencies for opening branches, acquisitions/mergers. not to mention the positive responses from the locals who are now getting bank services.
Speaking strictly of nationally chartered banks...I don't know for sure about state charters or thrifts, but i assume it's very similar.

Conditional approvals can still be given to a bank with a less than satisfactoy CRA rating. And CRA is only one consideration of the application process. The overall condition of the bank is much more important. There are only 6 national banks that are currently rated substandard noncompliance and there are 207 rated needs to improve. There are about 7500 national banks.

And those people "who are now getting bank services" have been getting bank services all along. Banks don't have to designate areas as part of the assessment area if they don't already SERVE that area with a branch/ATM/etc.
__________________
ocelot_ark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 02:59 PM   #29
Flacolaco
Rooting for the laundry
 
Flacolaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 21,342
Flacolaco has a reputation beyond reputeFlacolaco has a reputation beyond reputeFlacolaco has a reputation beyond reputeFlacolaco has a reputation beyond reputeFlacolaco has a reputation beyond reputeFlacolaco has a reputation beyond reputeFlacolaco has a reputation beyond reputeFlacolaco has a reputation beyond reputeFlacolaco has a reputation beyond reputeFlacolaco has a reputation beyond reputeFlacolaco has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I don't really think that has much to do with anything in the big picture, and I don't think that Barack Obama is on the phone with ACORN telling them to register the Dallas Cowboys roster, register people multiple times, give them cigarettes and money to do it, etc, etc...I don't know that it's going to help him, I don't think he can be held responsible for all these things that they are in fact doing, but it is still laughable when he says his campaign has nothing to do them.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_595810.html
Quote:
HARRISBURG -- A former staffer for an affiliate of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now testified today that the organization was provided a "donor list" from the presidential campaign of Barack Obama in late 2007 for fundraising efforts.

Anita Moncrief, a former Washington, D.C. staffer for Project Vote, which she described as a sister organization of ACORN, said her supervisor told her the list of campaign contributors came from the Obama campaign. Moncrief said she has a copy of a "development plan" that outlines how Obama contributors who had "maxed out" under federal contribution limits would be targeted to give to Project Vote, and that it was her job to identify such contributors....
__________________
Flacolaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fluffy banter, how about these nuts

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.