Butler/Haywood/Stevenson to the Mavs!! - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

aexchange · 02-13-2010, 12:01 PM

I think the thing I most like about this deal is: 1) we immediately solidify our 5 spot with Haywood and 2) we retain our flexibility this summer for the FA bonanza. Both Butler and Stevenson become expirings next year and I think most around the league look at Butler as a talent upgrade over Howard.

When you get into S&T possibilities this summer, you have to think that a Butler/Damp combo with a pick and/or Roddy looks much more palatable than a Howard/Damp combo just because of Howard's warts.

jthig32 · 02-13-2010, 12:03 PM

BTW, if the TE is included in the deal, the Mavs get an apology from me and everyone else griping about the Najera deal. This deal probably doesn't get done without the Trade Exception.

aexchange · 02-13-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'd be shocked if it was Blatche. He has two years left on his deal after this year and I imagine Washington still likes him anyway.

I'd somewhat less surprised if it was McGee.

I'd bet on Oberto, which wouldn't be horrible.

Oberto spares me to death. Don't see any reason the Mavs do that since they already took back Stevenson's contract.

I'm holding out hope that we land McGee or Blatche with this deal as the mavs were rumored to be interested in Blatche two years ago with the MLE when he was a RFA.

jthig32 · 02-13-2010, 12:12 PM

You know...I've been reading some Wizard blogs...and we are really, really spoiled around here.

I mean, I know we're all pretty happy with the trade. But I think reading things from Washington's perspective really shines a light on what we're accomplishing with this trade. Most of the time when you trade cap relief for talent, you have to take back significant bad contracts in return. The Mavs are coming away from this with largely FRIENDLY contracts. The fact that Butler has one year left on his contract is a plus, not a negative. Haywood is a legitimate, quality center that we will have bird rights on. That's a trade asset. Heck if you believe reports, when Portland inquired about Haywood they were told it would take Rudy Fernandez and Nick Batum. Let that sink in.

I mean, if the reports are correct, we're not giving up any draft picks or any young talent. A straight salary dump for players that don't even have that burdensome of contracts. That's unheard of.

The Mavs willingness to spend, their creativity in writing contracts and making trades (it certainly seems now that they did the Najera deal specifically to get that TE) have enabled them to essentially turn Josh Howard and Jerry Stackhouse into Shawn Marion, Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood.

When looking at things from that perspective, I find it hard to not get excited about this summer.

This trade may not be the thing that puts them over the top, but please recognize this for what it is: a true no-brainer home run win of a trade. And one that took a lot of creative thinking and planning along the way.

jthig32 · 02-13-2010, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

Oberto spares me to death. Don't see any reason the Mavs do that since they already took back Stevenson's contract.

I'm holding out hope that we land McGee or Blatche with this deal as the mavs were rumored to be interested in Blatche two years ago with the MLE when he was a RFA.

Stevenson's contract isn't that bad. I have to think we're taking back someone with negative value with the TE, and that's not Blatche for sure.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-13-2010, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

You know...I've been reading some Wizard blogs...and we are really, really spoiled around here.

I mean, I know we're all pretty happy with the trade. But I think reading things from Washington's perspective really shines a light on what we're accomplishing with this trade. Most of the time when you trade cap relief for talent, you have to take back significant bad contracts in return. The Mavs are coming away from this with largely FRIENDLY contracts. The fact that Butler has one year left on his contract is a plus, not a negative. Haywood is a legitimate, quality center that we will have bird rights on. That's a trade asset. Heck if you believe reports, when Portland inquired about Haywood they were told it would take Rudy Fernandez and Nick Batum. Let that sink in.

I mean, if the reports are correct, we're not giving up any draft picks or any young talent. A straight salary dump for players that don't even have that burdensome of contracts. That's unheard of.

The Mavs willingness to spend, their creativity in writing contracts and making trades (it certainly seems now that they did the Najera deal specifically to get that TE) have enabled them to essentially turn Josh Howard and Jerry Stackhouse into Shawn Marion, Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood.

When looking at things from that perspective, I find it hard to not get excited about this summer.

This trade may not be the thing that puts them over the top, but please recognize this for what it is: a true no-brainer home run win of a trade. And one that took a lot of creative thinking and planning along the way.

You've made a believer out of me. Bravo, sir!

sike · 02-13-2010, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I find it hard to not get excited about this summer.

Thats the idea that hit me yesterday...it seems to me that people would look long and hard at a S&T that involved all the savings of the Dust and Butler for a season. Especially if Roddy is involved.

mavsfan1000 · 02-13-2010, 12:17 PM

How is everyone so sure this will happen?

sike · 02-13-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You've made a believer out of me. Bravo, sir!

quite the 180, sir.

jthig32 · 02-13-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

How is everyone so sure this will happen?

It's being reported in multiple locations as a done deal, with the official word coming down on Monday.

jthig32 · 02-13-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Thats the idea that hit me yesterday...it seems to me that people would look long and hard at a S&T that involved all the savings of the Dust and Butler for a season. Especially if Roddy is involved.

I continue to think that if anything happens with Damp, at least in a sign and trade scenario, it's going to be with very little other salary going out. The idea being that a team will take the young talent (Roddy) and draft picks and then use their cap room to sign a free agent.

But it certainly can't hurt to have Butler sitting around with a friendly contract. And heck, don't forget that Haywood can be sign and traded as well.

The Mavs have an incredible amount of flexibility this summer.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-13-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

quite the 180, sir.

Not quite. The part that got me was the "it's hard not to get excited about the summer." The season's still done.

sike · 02-13-2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

but it certainly can't hurt to have Butler sitting around with a friendly contract. And heck, don't forget that Haywood can be sign and traded as well.

The Mavs have an incredible amount of flexibility this summer.

looks like Donnie really deserves some props for his managing of everything building to 2010...

sike · 02-13-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Not quite. The part that got me was the "it's hard not to get excited about the summer." The season's still done.

haha...ok

Thespiralgoeson · 02-13-2010, 12:26 PM

Just when I think Donnie Nelson couldn't get any dumber, he goes and does something like this... AND TOTALLY REDEEMS HIMSELF!!!

Nowitzki4President · 02-13-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

looks like Donnie really deserves some props for his managing of everything building to 2010...

2010 is nice, and I am excitied, BUT! Am I the only one sad that we don't really have that great of chances this year? I mean, we have a shot yes, but how much better will this make us this year?

sike · 02-13-2010, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Just when I think Donnie Nelson couldn't get any dumber, he goes and does something like this... AND TOTALLY REDEEMS HIMSELF!!!

I can get 70 miles to the gallon on this hog...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYyo7dEPvwU

jthig32 · 02-13-2010, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

2010 is nice, and I am excitied, BUT! Am I the only one sad that we don't really have that great of chances this year? I mean, we have a shot yes, but how much better will this make us this year?

I think it has the potential to make us a lot better. Damp's injury is going largely unreported in the general media, but I really don't think I'm overstating things when I say that you can point to the time he started hobbling around and missing games as the time when our defense went to utter crap.

sike · 02-13-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think it has the potential to make us a lot better. Damp's injury is going largely unreported in the general media, but I really don't think I'm overstating things when I say that you can point to the time he started hobbling around and missing games as the time when our defense went to utter crap.

Like people are saying...having a Damp/Haywood quality defender on the floor at all times could change the face of this team in a big way...

LSMF · 02-13-2010, 12:36 PM

Im very happy with this trade. I'm quite sure that Butler will be a legit Robin to Dirk's Batman. The guy can take off pressure from Dirk because of his ability to get to the rim, and he's also a tremendous ballhandler. The guy can hit shots and defend. He also has a toughness and nastiness about him that I love, and I'm sure Carlislie will love that about him as well. I also love the fact that we finally just got a legit post presence in Haywood. He has become a very fine player, and with Kidd feeding him the ball he'll be even better. I don't expect much from Stevenson but when he is motivated he's a very solid player. Now let's go out and get that ring!

P.S- I really hope I'm not dreaming...=]

sefant77 · 02-13-2010, 12:44 PM

Thats the deal then:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=ykq9n4u

With the TE im pretty sure its Oberto. Blatche/Young/McGee would be another steal.

Kidd/Barea/Roddy
Butler/Terry/Stevenson
Marion/Singleton/Carroll
Dirk/TT/Najera
Haywood/Damp/TE

sike · 02-13-2010, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

Im very happy with this trade. I'm quite sure that Butler will be a legit Robin to Dirk's Batman. The guy can take off pressure from Dirk because of his ability to get to the rim, and he's also a tremendous ballhandler. The guy can hit shots and defend. He also has a toughness and nastiness about him that I love, and I'm sure Carlislie will love that about him as well. I also love the fact that we finally just got a legit post presence in Haywood. He has become a very fine player, and with Kidd feeding him the ball he'll be even better. I don't expect much from Stevenson but when he is motivated he's a very solid player. Now let's go out and get that ring!

P.S- I really hope I'm not dreaming...=]

this is the kind of optimism we need 'round here!! +rep

ghazi · 02-13-2010, 12:50 PM

Im drinking the kool aid. THE LEAGUE IS

dalger · 02-13-2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

You know...I've been reading some Wizard blogs...and we are really, really spoiled around here.

I mean, I know we're all pretty happy with the trade. But I think reading things from Washington's perspective really shines a light on what we're accomplishing with this trade. Most of the time when you trade cap relief for talent, you have to take back significant bad contracts in return. The Mavs are coming away from this with largely FRIENDLY contracts. The fact that Butler has one year left on his contract is a plus, not a negative. Haywood is a legitimate, quality center that we will have bird rights on. That's a trade asset. Heck if you believe reports, when Portland inquired about Haywood they were told it would take Rudy Fernandez and Nick Batum. Let that sink in.

I mean, if the reports are correct, we're not giving up any draft picks or any young talent. A straight salary dump for players that don't even have that burdensome of contracts. That's unheard of.

The Mavs willingness to spend, their creativity in writing contracts and making trades (it certainly seems now that they did the Najera deal specifically to get that TE) have enabled them to essentially turn Josh Howard and Jerry Stackhouse into Shawn Marion, Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood.

When looking at things from that perspective, I find it hard to not get excited about this summer.

This trade may not be the thing that puts them over the top, but please recognize this for what it is: a true no-brainer home run win of a trade. And one that took a lot of creative thinking and planning along the way.

+1. Very good post, jthig. The deals we've done (and not done) since last summer have indeed been good to very good, and the latest trade is no exception. It's easy to criticize a FO, but when we look at the bitter pills other fans have to swallow, then we're clearly not the unluckiest basketball fans on the planet with the worst front office possible. Just imagine being a Wizards fan these days...

Butler/Haywood for Josh/Gooden is an absolute no-brainer and probably even more than anyone could have reasonably expected.

BGMaverick9 · 02-13-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'd be shocked if it was Blatche. He has two years left on his deal after this year and I imagine Washington still likes him anyway.

I'd somewhat less surprised if it was McGee.

I'd bet on Oberto, which wouldn't be horrible.

I would think Washington would consider those guys like Blatche and McGee because they continue for multiple years and it's more coming off for them. I know it's not a lot more, but every penny counts for that team now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The Mavs have an incredible amount of flexibility this summer.

They really do, and it got better with the inclusion of Haywood in the deal. If they find something with a big coming back, they can use Haywood and the Bird's rights to get something going.

They really have a lot of options.

It's a no-brainer A+ grade for Dallas with this deal.

dirno2000 · 02-13-2010, 01:13 PM

I'd start Caron. Jet has found his stroke when he became a starter but I'd have no problem sending him back to the bench since he's proven that he can be just as productive in that role. We need Butler to hit the ground running and I'm not sure bringing him off the bench for the first time in his career would help that.

Plus we've become an awful defensive team the past month or so and, although he's not known for being much of a defender, Caron's size and ability to help on the defensive glass should help there.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-13-2010, 01:13 PM

Did you all know Butler has a blog with hoopshype?

http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/butler/index.php

I found this part very encouraging....

Quote:

I’ve been traded a couple of times before in my career. That did nothing but give me extra motivation. Look at my track record… Every time I was dealt, I had better years with my new team than I had with the old one. You don’t want to get traded, but you can turn it into a positive. I know I did.

Nowitzki4President · 02-13-2010, 01:14 PM

Take a look at Caron's career stats: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/caron_...eer_stats.html

You'll notice, his highest career numbers in the three most important stats (ppg, apg, rpg) are in the 07-08 and 08-09 seasons. I don't think it's a coincidence that those were the seasons that Gilbert Arenas, who I see as a "me first" kind of point guard, barely played. I think in a system around Kidd's insane passing ability will bring him up to where he was those two years. Caron's play style, I believe, is just what we need. To me, he seems like a Josh Howard without the stupid, ill-advised jump shots.

bcrav4 · 02-13-2010, 01:20 PM

Regarding Oberto, I hope we can get ANY of the other guys for the TE. Mavs still need energy now, and to plan for the future. A young guy sure would be nice.

aurelino9 · 02-13-2010, 01:20 PM

I think of Butler as more of a one-on-one player (but then so is Howard) so it will be interesting to see how he fits into the offense.
Haywood will actually be able to finish on Kidd's lobs. Him and Damp will be significantly better than what they have right now.
Don't know where Stevenson fits in, though. If he can beat JJB in the rotation, that'll be good enough.

DubOverdose · 02-13-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

How is everyone so sure this will happen?

Trades rarely get this much traction and refinement. When they do, they usually happen.

LSMF · 02-13-2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcrav4

Regarding Oberto, I hope we can get ANY of the other guys for the TE. Mavs still need energy now, and to plan for the future. A young guy sure would be nice.

Man, if we could Javale McGee that would be so sweet...

Nowitzki4President · 02-13-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

Man, if we could Javale McGee that would be so sweet...

Of the 3 extra guys we want, being Oberto/Blatche/McGee, only McGee and Oberto will allow us to give them Hump's trade exception, so it's up to our FO to play tough and get us McGee.

EDIT: Then again, if McGee is included, we wouldn't even need to give then the TE.

grndmstr_c · 02-13-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

Of the 3 extra guys we want, being Oberto/Blatche/McGee, only McGee and Oberto will allow us to give them Hump's trade exception, so it's up to our FO to play tough and get us McGee.

EDIT: Then again, if McGee is included, we wouldn't even need to give then the TE.

I'm pretty sure the TE would work for Blatche. I'm expecting Oberto, though.

Also, when I just ran it on realgm McGee's inclusion invalidated the trade (too much salary coming back to Dallas).

Nowitzki4President · 02-13-2010, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I'm pretty sure the TE would work for Blatche. I'm expecting Oberto, though.

Also, when I just ran it on realgm McGee's inclusion invalidated the trade (too much salary coming back to Dallas).

With Oberto: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=yh2nuwg

With McGee (Optional TE): http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=yz9cd4x

With Blatche: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=ykgwfs9

With Blatche, it gives to TE option.

Janett_Reno · 02-13-2010, 01:55 PM

Gooden, everywhere he has played at, was not appreciated & bascially was let go because they said he played zero defense & like others talked of not setting picks, etc and he has been caught in between forward/center & most use him as center. I feel he has been good and especially with his scorring and rebounding. In the end, we was going no where with Don Nelson style basketball or playing forwards as centers vs the Lakers, Nugs or elite teams that say stop me at the rim & forces us to play defense at the rim. To have any hope in the playoffs you need two big men at 7' or so that can block shots & play defense. That is Haywood. He will be huge if the Mavs could ever break thru a great elite team in half court & disrupt, Odom, Gasol, Bynum. They are just to big and talented inside & i have not even mentioned Kobe & he is the best player in the nba, him & Lebron.

Butler, we have needed a big sg for along time. Terry is good but a double punch is needed. One also has size in Butler & rebounds. Terry does not have his size but both men can flat score. You need to be big, tall, very deep against the Lakers. You must defend against them. Butler plays alot more mins than Howard. I wonder how the time is split with Butler/Terry but being deep off the bench is good also. I was always a big Josh fan & have hated to see this day come but the day either him or Avery or somebody, said shoot them 3's, be like Dirk & Terry & shoot, shoot and shoot more and slow up some on that hustle and defense, was the day we lost a valuable piece. Dallas waited along time for that Josh to come back & i never figured out why he could never produce in the 4th q. His defense was really good at one time.

Wiz wanted Stevenson gone & off the books and we didn't want him either. Nobody does. We have wanted Haywood for along time. When we said we would take Stevenson if Haywood was in the deal, this opened up Haywood.

Denver will not beat the Lakers in the playoffs. That is the team most feel & the Spurs that has any glimmer of hope in the playoffs against them. The Spurs could get beat against almost anyone now but it is said they are making a block buster trade soon. I think people just feel pop, duncan, if they can just get in, they are dangerous but they look far from what they once was this year to me. LA will kill Denver inside & at the rim in the playoffs & like they would do us but i feel Butler & Haywood gives us hope against the Lakers & elite teams. A very good trade for the Mavs. I agree with Charles Barkley. If you want to disrupt the Lakers, disrupt Bynum, Gasol & Odom. Bump them, physical them, make bruises on them under the rim. The Lakers can and could lose if you take the big men down. No one will stop Kobe, no one. It would hurt him if you take his big men away or the painted area. This is easier said than done as Gasol, Odom, Bynum are verrrrrrrrrry talented & good but all three have been said to be soft and do not like to be pushed around. Haywood & Butler helps and brings big in the paint & outside. Does this mean we will beat the Lakers, probably not but it atleast makes us have a chance & we could. I actually believe we can beat Denver now. I think we will the Spurs.

A+ & a great trade for the Mavs...........

badfish22 · 02-13-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Haywood: 7'0" / 9.8 PPG / 10.3 RPG / 2.1 BPG
Gooden: 6'10" / 8.9 PPG / 6.9 RPG / 1.1 BPG

We "lose" nothing in this deal...

(not that Gooden wasn't crucial to our early-season success, but he isn't necessary going forward.)

You forgot the most important part

Gooden: 0.467%
Haywood: 0.561%

God I love this trade. Its seems too good to be true. Im not going to completely celebrate until its officially done.

fluid.forty.one · 02-13-2010, 02:05 PM

hell yes

I wonder how much Howards attitude has really affected the Mavs over the past few years. You gotta think that Dirk is pretty happy about this.

DubOverdose · 02-13-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

You forgot the most important part

Gooden: 0.467%
Haywood: 0.561%

God I love this trade. Its seems too good to be true. Im not going to completely celebrate until its officially done.

Even after this trade, I think we should see what other moves we can make.

sike · 02-13-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

hell yes

I wonder how much Howards attitude has really affected the Mavs over the past few years. You gotta think that Dirk is pretty happy about this.

I imagine Dirk is quietly very pleased.