This Season's Roster Outlook - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Melonhead · 05-05-2015, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remnorz

Barea wants 2-3years @ 3mil per year. He won't accept vet's min.

Source: http://www.elnuevodia.com/deportes/b...allas-2043106/

I dont blame him. Hes better than a vet min guy. Maybe settle to 2.5. Its not his fault we had to take on Felton. Hes a great bench energy guy that we need.

BigDog63 · 05-07-2015, 12:28 PM

re: the blow it up crowd:

And get....who? Who is going to come to a completely depleted team, with an aging star and an overpaid 3rd man on its roster?

This is the problem with all the blow it up scenarios, and posters. They all want to push Humpty Dumpty off the wall, and just assume a nice new egg appears in its place. If only it were that simple. The reality is that what you are left with once you push Humpty off the wall is a big sticky mess that no one wants to be a part of.

But the other alternatives aren't that great either. I'm a big Mavs fan, and have stood by them before and after the championship...but I'm not really seeing a pretty picture here. Blow it up and you get cap space but no likely takers. Keep it together and you have a good, but not great, team with little liklihood of moving up. The Mavs had a bunch of bargains on their roster this year...they'll be lucky to just be as good next year as they were this year. And it gets worse after that. The way you build continuity through these times is through the draft, and the Mavs have...James? to show for that (I luv Sarge, but he is what he is). I have no faith in them rebuilding or even restocking via the draft, and I'm not seeing good prospects for free agents. Even when Dirk retires...his bargain contract means there isn't going to be a ton of money to pick up a replacement with. The hazard of having good bargains on your team is that replacing them with similar bargains is really difficult. The Mavs may be in for a long look at mediocrity. If you think I'm wrong, please elaborate. I'd luv to be wrong, but not seeing the other paths forward.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-07-2015, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDog63

re: the blow it up crowd:

And get....who? Who is going to come to a completely depleted team, with an aging star and an overpaid 3rd man on its roster?

This is the problem with all the blow it up scenarios, and posters. They all want to push Humpty Dumpty off the wall, and just assume a nice new egg appears in its place. If only it were that simple. The reality is that what you are left with once you push Humpty off the wall is a big sticky mess that no one wants to be a part of.

But the other alternatives aren't that great either. I'm a big Mavs fan, and have stood by them before and after the championship...but I'm not really seeing a pretty picture here. Blow it up and you get cap space but no likely takers. Keep it together and you have a good, but not great, team with little liklihood of moving up. The Mavs had a bunch of bargains on their roster this year...they'll be lucky to just be as good next year as they were this year. And it gets worse after that. The way you build continuity through these times is through the draft, and the Mavs have...James? to show for that (I luv Sarge, but he is what he is). I have no faith in them rebuilding or even restocking via the draft, and I'm not seeing good prospects for free agents. Even when Dirk retires...his bargain contract means there isn't going to be a ton of money to pick up a replacement with. The hazard of having good bargains on your team is that replacing them with similar bargains is really difficult. The Mavs may be in for a long look at mediocrity. If you think I'm wrong, please elaborate. I'd luv to be wrong, but not seeing the other paths forward.

I mostly agree with this expect for the bargains part. There will always be bargains when the cap money dries up. Not every player is going to get 10+ million a year. And plus, it depends on the quality of player. Are you talking about Ellis bargain or Aminu bargain? There will always be Aminu-type bargains, but Ellis, you might be right. A player of his quality would likely be a player with injury history or has fallen out of favor for various reasons.

Quality first post and welcome. Keep posting.

BPo001 · 05-08-2015, 07:09 PM

Rumors are floating around that Deron Williams could be bought out. Could he be an option? I wonder what kind of money he would be looking for in the unlikely event he is bought out by the Nets.

Underdog · 05-08-2015, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Rumors are floating around that Deron Williams could be bought out. Could he be an option? I wonder what kind of money he would be looking for in the unlikely event he is bought out by the Nets.

I'm not sure how you'd get him, but you could do a lot worse than D-Will at PG (even if his skills are in decline)... Worst-case: better than Rondo.

EricaLubarsky · 05-08-2015, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'm not sure how you'd get him, but you could do a lot worse than D-Will at PG (even if his skills are in decline)... Worst-case: better than Rondo.

Worst case for Felton is better than Rondo.

FreshJive · 05-09-2015, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Worst case for Felton is better than Rondo.

Fair enough. Worst case for Deron is better than Felton.

bunkmoreland · 05-09-2015, 12:46 PM

DWill comes to Dallas on a one year deal.
Plays his ass off.
Cashes in after season and gets overpaid by another team.
That works for me.

yahyes · 05-09-2015, 07:58 PM

We shouldn't have let go of Vince Carter that easy. Especially signing Jefferson over him. Maybe Carter has one more season left in him to comeback for a low bargain 1 year.

Underdog · 05-09-2015, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

We shouldn't have let go of Vince Carter that easy. Especially signing Jefferson over him. Maybe Carter has one more season left in him to comeback for a low bargain 1 year.

Jefferson: 14-15 ($1.5m)
Carter: 14-15 ($3.9m), 15-16 ($4.1m), 16-17 ($4.3m)

It was "that easy" because of price and years... Unless he's traded, Carter is going to retire in Memphis.

LonghornDub · 05-10-2015, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

We shouldn't have let go of Vince Carter that easy. Especially signing Jefferson over him. Maybe Carter has one more season left in him to comeback for a low bargain 1 year.

Jefferson significantly outplayed Carter all year by pretty much any metric, and he cost significantly less.

yahyes · 05-10-2015, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Jefferson: 14-15 ($1.5m)
Carter: 14-15 ($3.9m), 15-16 ($4.1m), 16-17 ($4.3m)

It was "that easy" because of price and years... Unless he's traded, Carter is going to retire in Memphis.

Oh I thought Carter had a 1 year with Memphis. Never mind then.

BGMaverick9 · 05-10-2015, 10:13 PM

Podcast: End of Year and Looking Ahead thoughts with Mark Followill and Jeff "Skin" Wade
http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2015/05/...st-episode-95/

Bryan_Wilson · 05-11-2015, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Podcast: End of Year and Looking Ahead thoughts with Mark Followill and Jeff "Skin" Wade
http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2015/05/...st-episode-95/

This is full of good stuff. Somehow Taylor Swift, Alexdria Daddario, Off-season basketball, Alignment talk, Hack-A____, CP, and Rondo quitting talk all came together in just 2.5 hrs. You could watch/listen to this during another one of these Rockets playoff free throw practice games and you would still see the entire 4th quarter by the time it ended.

BigDog63 · 05-12-2015, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I mostly agree with this expect for the bargains part. There will always be bargains when the cap money dries up. Not every player is going to get 10+ million a year. And plus, it depends on the quality of player. Are you talking about Ellis bargain or Aminu bargain? There will always be Aminu-type bargains, but Ellis, you might be right. A player of his quality would likely be a player with injury history or has fallen out of favor for various reasons.

Agree...but replacing Ellis is going to be key. The Mavs have shown they can fill a roster with good bargain veterans, but that isn't going to make the Mavs better, just keep them the same. I like Ellis, personally...his falloff occurred when he was injured, and after Rondo arrived. But we need help defensively, too, if a decent offensive SG who is a better defender is out there...grab him! Maybe even move Ellis to PG, teaming with Harris and Barea. But the Mavs are going to doing well to put together a team that is just as good as this one...and this one didn't have much of a chance to do any damage in the playoffs.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-12-2015, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDog63

Agree...but replacing Ellis is going to be key. The Mavs have shown they can fill a roster with good bargain veterans, but that isn't going to make the Mavs better, just keep them the same. I like Ellis, personally...his falloff occurred when he was injured, and after Rondo arrived. But we need help defensively, too, if a decent offensive SG who is a better defender is out there...grab him! Maybe even move Ellis to PG, teaming with Harris and Barea. But the Mavs are going to doing well to put together a team that is just as good as this one...and this one didn't have much of a chance to do any damage in the playoffs.

I'd love to see Ellis at pg, but the FO won't do it. It would solve a lot of issues and not have to force yet another incoming pg to learn the system. I think it would also somewhat force Monta to be a playmaker and not play Montaball all the time. But, moot point.

Mavs either need to let Ellis go for a defensive 2 or get a PG who is elite at defense. We don't need a good defender at the one...we need elite to have any chance against the West guards.

BigDog63 · 05-12-2015, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd love to see Ellis at pg, but the FO won't do it. It would solve a lot of issues and not have to force yet another incoming pg to learn the system. I think it would also somewhat force Monta to be a playmaker and not play Montaball all the time. But, moot point.

Agree, and unfortunate. Recall Monta's first few weeks with the team...they had to force him to STOP distributing the ball so much, and be more selfish. I think he would do just fine at the point as well.

Quote:

Mavs either need to let Ellis go for a defensive 2 or get a PG who is elite at defense. We don't need a good defender at the one...we need elite to have any chance against the West guards.

Hey, we could get Rondo! No, wait.... :-)

I'm not sure there is an elite defender at PG out there...the PG's in the West are pretty much too good for any one person to stop. You need to not be terrible (Calderon), and make up for it offensively. The 2 spot is different...could really use a stopper there. It's also why the Mavs really need to resign Aminu. He's the Marion replacement...someone who can defend multiple positions, only a lot younger. If they can get him back for around the $4M I've heard discussed, they should jump on it. I was in favor of Aminu when they were pursuing Parsons...he made more sense to me as a Marion replacement, and I wasn't sure Chandler would become the go to guy the FO envisioned (and so far that has been shown to be correct).

mavs777 · 05-18-2015, 12:00 AM

I think monta is as good as gone, maybe tim is wrong but he has been hinting at that

GermanStandard · 05-18-2015, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

I think monta is as good as gone, maybe tim is wrong but he has been hinting at that

I wouldnt mind it. Teams needs a different way of approaching things on the field especially on the defensive side.

Ellis is fun to watch and extremely good sometimes on the offensive end but he isnt a Winner and isnt going to carry your team when it matters.

rimrocker · 05-18-2015, 01:46 PM

If possible I'd still rather sign Jordan/Green/Aminu and let Ellis/Chandler walk. I don't see where merely resigning Ellis/Chandler and maybe Aminu make us any better and there is no upside.
Then trade Felton/Harris/Pick for Lawson.

Lawson/Barea
Green/
Parsons/Aminu
Dirk/Powell
Jordan/?/Sarge

At least that team has an upside and would be somewhat attractive to a star FA post Dirk.

FreshJive · 05-18-2015, 01:53 PM

Jordan might leave in fa as tensions grow with Paul

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/d...ul-rift-051815

Melonhead · 05-18-2015, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Jordan might leave in fa as tensions grow with Paul

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/d...ul-rift-051815

Thats so funny. I remember BG hinting that Jordan doesnt get along with someone within the team. I told my friend this morning if I had to guess it would be Chris Paul. Secrets out now.

This is concerning:

"Contributing to the problem was Paul's view that Jordan lacked the appropriate commitment to working on his free throws, including not working enough with the Clippers shooting coach on that issue, sources said."

Jordan will have to work wherever he goes. However, I feel that the way Paul goes about talking to his peers, I could see it coming off condescending. Just speculation from what Ive seen on the court.

BGMaverick9 · 05-18-2015, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Thats so funny. I remember BG hinting that Jordan doesnt get along with someone within the team. I told my friend this morning if I had to guess it would be Chris Paul. Secrets out now.

ding, ding

yahyes · 05-18-2015, 08:51 PM

Chris Paul is all and will always be prima donna.

mac222b · 05-18-2015, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

If possible I'd still rather sign Jordan/Green/Aminu and let Ellis/Chandler walk. I don't see where merely resigning Ellis/Chandler and maybe Aminu make us any better and there is no upside.
Then trade Felton/Harris/Pick for Lawson.

Lawson/Barea
Green/
Parsons/Aminu
Dirk/Powell
Jordan/?/Sarge

At least that team has an upside and would be somewhat attractive to a star FA post Dirk.

I think it takes more than that to get Lawson. Not sure they want that long Decin contract

DGM · 05-19-2015, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd love to see Ellis at pg, but the FO won't do it. It would solve a lot of issues and not have to force yet another incoming pg to learn the system. I think it would also somewhat force Monta to be a playmaker and not play Montaball all the time. But, moot point.

Mavs either need to let Ellis go for a defensive 2 or get a PG who is elite at defense. We don't need a good defender at the one...we need elite to have any chance against the West guards.

I brought up Monta at pg a few weeks back and recieved all kind of posts why it would'nt work. Monta is a willing passer. I don't see him as a greedy scorer. He did what he had to do this year because of the lack of other scoring options. I think it would work very well because Parsons can also run the offense as a point forward. Your point guard needs to be able to score in today's nba.

I reall like having Parsons and Aminu on the floor together. Mavs must make keeping Aminu a priority. If Brewer (Rockets) is a free agent the Mavs should also go after him. He never should have gotten away from Dallas.

Underdog · 05-19-2015, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

If Brewer (Rockets) is a free agent the Mavs should also go after him. He never should have gotten away from Dallas.

Well, letting him go did make space for Vince Carter, who was excellent off the bench for us.

tsar · 05-19-2015, 11:35 AM

So if we get Deandre Jordan is Chandler gone?

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-19-2015, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsar

So if we get Deandre Jordan is Chandler gone?

My guess would be a S&T. And I believe Paul and Chandler got along when they played together.

rimrocker · 05-19-2015, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Well, letting him go did make space for Vince Carter, who was excellent off the bench for us.

Agree but it does say a lot about Rick's unwillingness to play inexperienced players.
Brewer would have been better for the long term and would have helped with a youth movement. Hopefully the same mistake isn't made with Aminu...can't let him get away. That would be another huge hole that would need to be filled in the off-season along with starting PG, backup C and backup PF.

Underdog · 05-19-2015, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Agree but it does say a lot about Rick's unwillingness to play inexperienced players.

I actually think it had a lot more to do with the FO's win-now mentality than Rick's unwillingness to play young players. It's a lot easier to depend on veterans than inexperienced guys, especially when you're talking about a future HOFer like Vince Carter (even though he'd lost a step or two).

Wang Zhi Zhi · 05-19-2015, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

I brought up Monta at pg a few weeks back and recieved all kind of posts why it would'nt work. Monta is a willing passer. I don't see him as a greedy scorer. He did what he had to do this year because of the lack of other scoring options. I think it would work very well because Parsons can also run the offense as a point forward. Your point guard needs to be able to score in today's nba. . . .

I've come around to this view. Yeah, in theory, it would be better to get a great point guard who has the shooting and defensive skills that fit next to Monta at the 2. Only problem is that very few, if any, of those guys exist and are available. Much easier (and more cap-friendly) to get a 2 that fits well next to Monta.

As noted, tons of today's PGs are scorers, and most of our O runs through Monta anyway (or it did pre-RR). So while conceptually Monta at the 1 may be objectionable, it's better than the alternative at this point.

rimrocker · 05-19-2015, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I actually think it had a lot more to do with the FO's win-now mentality than Rick's unwillingness to play young players. It's a lot easier to depend on veterans than inexperienced guys, especially when you're talking about a future HOFer like Vince Carter (even though he'd lost a step or two).

RC certainly seems to be in his comfort zone with vets and I did agree with that strategy back then but no so much now. We're in a tough position where filling a roster full of vets in their mid 30s isn't going to be enough. Without a few young stars to build around I think the Mavs have some tough years ahead unless the FO alters its strategy a bit.

I just don't want to become the Knicks of the Isaiah era but I'm afraid the current strategy is pointing us toward that path.

I personally don't think its in Cuban's DNA to rebuild from scratch and I certainly don't think RC is the coach when or if Cuban ever changes to that strategy. I still say our best bet right now is to put together a young team with promising players to hopefully lure a star FA when the cap increases. RC will be forced to play them if that is all he has. If he has vets they will always trump inexperience because Carlisle is always thinking about the immediate present and probably should as long as Dirk is on the team but at some point we need to develop younger players. Maybe not necessarily rookies but 3rd or 4th year guys like Aminu.

That's why I'm more in favor of going after Jordan (26) and Green (27) because those are some good building blocks to go along with Parsons (26), Aminu (25) and Powell (24) and are guys that RC would actually play.

Underdog · 05-19-2015, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I personally don't think its in Cuban's DNA to rebuild from scratch and I certainly don't think RC is the coach when or if Cuban ever changes to that strategy. I still say our best bet right now is to put together a young team with promising players to hopefully lure a star FA when the cap increases. RC will be forced to play them if that is all he has. If he has vets they will always trump inexperience because Carlisle is always thinking about the immediate present and probably should as long as Dirk is on the team but at some point we need to develop younger players. Maybe not necessarily rookies but 3rd or 4th year guys like Aminu.

That's why I'm more in favor of going after Jordan (26) and Green (27) because those are some good building blocks to go along with Parsons (26), Aminu (25) and Powell (24) and are guys that RC would actually play.

I pretty much agree with all of this, and I do think nabbing Parsons was a sign that we want to get younger -- just not rookie-young. I mean, Ellis was only 27 when we got him, and Rondo is only 29... It seems like veteran players with more productive years ahead of them than behind them (25-29) is the sweet spot you're looking for if you want to re-tool on the fly. It gives us an opportunity to compete for a ring in Dirk's twilight years, but also gives us a foundation to build on after he rides off into the sunset.

Aminu definitely fits the profile, and yes, Corey Brewer does as well -- so it wouldn't surprise me at all if this is the direction we keep heading... But then again, it also wouldn't surprise me if we kept loading the bench with veteran players over 30 who subscribe to Rick's "be ready" mantra until Dirk actually does retire.

sefant77 · 05-19-2015, 08:40 PM

Re-sign Chandler and trade our pick for Dieng. Wolves gonna have Towns/Okafor + Pek + Dieng

blessednegr0 · 05-19-2015, 10:57 PM

Do you guys think Aminu could possibly run the 2 spot? I know his shooting isn't the best. But I think he would be pretty capable of helping us at the 2 spot.

Underdog · 05-19-2015, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessednegr0

Do you guys think Aminu could possibly run the 2 spot? I know his shooting isn't the best. But I think he would be pretty capable of helping us at the 2 spot.

Actually, I think Parsons' ball handling might make him an excellent option at the 2 with Aminu playing the 3 (although "position" is always an interchangeable thing in RC's lineups)... Of course you'd need a PG that plays pretty decent defense to get away with it, but a 6'9" SG between a solid 1 (Lawson?) and Aminu at the 3 would be pretty sick, especially if you had a guy like DeAndre Jordan or Tyson Chandler defending the paint.

Of course, this is all assuming that Ellis is on his way out...

rimrocker · 05-20-2015, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Aminu definitely fits the profile, and yes, Corey Brewer does as well -- so it wouldn't surprise me at all if this is the direction we keep heading... But then again, it also wouldn't surprise me if we kept loading the bench with veteran players over 30 who subscribe to Rick's "be ready" mantra until Dirk actually does retire.

A lot of fans were down on RJ but he is a perfect fit imo. I'd love to get him back at the min especially with Parsons injury situation.

I'd like to see more rebuilding/retooling of the core with youth and more vets at the end of the bench. CV and RJ are perfect for those roles.

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if Blair is back on this team next season in a similar role. I don't like him at center at all but RC seems to love him. If CV doesn't return I'd be ok with Blair as long as RC doesn't overplay him at center. I'm hoping Powell can step up into a larger role though basically taking Amare's minutes with either CV or Blair in an insurance/situational role.

rimrocker · 05-20-2015, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessednegr0

Do you guys think Aminu could possibly run the 2 spot? I know his shooting isn't the best. But I think he would be pretty capable of helping us at the 2 spot.

I concur with Underdog that Parsons would be better suited for the 2 than Aminu...at least on offense.

He actually played some this season and looked pretty comfortable in that role.
My off-season hope is that we sign Jordan and Green and then resign Aminu. Then trade for Lawson.

Dirk/Aminu/Parsons/Green would be a great 4 man rotation at 2-4 spots in the POs. Hopefully Powell can be a part of that rotation during reg season to enhance his development and limit Dirk's minutes.

DGM · 05-20-2015, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Actually, I think Parsons' ball handling might make him an excellent option at the 2 with Aminu playing the 3 (although "position" is always an interchangeable thing in RC's lineups)... Of course you'd need a PG that plays pretty decent defense to get away with it, but a 6'9" SG between a solid 1 (Lawson?) and Aminu at the 3 would be pretty sick, especially if you had a guy like DeAndre Jordan or Tyson Chandler defending the paint.

Of course, this is all assuming that Ellis is on his way out...

I like Parsons as a giant two guard. Parsons plays good defense, has excellent handles and would create a defensive problem for normal sized twos trying to guard him.