09-14-2012, 07:38 PM
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#481
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
So how does that differentiate him from any other coach who isn't leading a team in rebuild mode? It's always easier to play the numbers when you're dealing with a known quantity...
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I think his proclivity for vets is greater than most NBA coaches'. There's no mathematical test for that, of course, but that's how I see it. And this goes back to way before he was even with the Mavs.
I also think he's either the second-or third-best coach in the league, so it's certainly not a heavy criticism today.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
Last edited by LonghornDub; 09-14-2012 at 07:40 PM.
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09-14-2012, 09:59 PM
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#482
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 116
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ok so i was going to make a thread but apparently dont have those privelages. can someone look this up for me. like ive said ive watched a lot of mayo basketball. his first two years in the league he was so quick and explosive to the basket. his body looked more defined shreded. now he look like he has bulked up a little the past two seasons. do we know what mayo weighs now compared to his rookie season? nba.com has him 6-4 210 but can we find out if he is still that weight. i liked the weight he was coming out of usc but he might have put on more pounds to try and defend the bigger guards.
Last edited by tron#1; 09-14-2012 at 10:00 PM.
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09-14-2012, 10:51 PM
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#483
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tron#1
ok so i was going to make a thread but apparently dont have those privelages. can someone look this up for me. like ive said ive watched a lot of mayo basketball. his first two years in the league he was so quick and explosive to the basket. his body looked more defined shreded. now he look like he has bulked up a little the past two seasons. do we know what mayo weighs now compared to his rookie season? nba.com has him 6-4 210 but can we find out if he is still that weight. i liked the weight he was coming out of usc but he might have put on more pounds to try and defend the bigger guards.
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209 lbs is the most current weight listed - if that's not accurate, then it probably won't be updated until the season begins... He was 200 lbs when he was drafted.
Also, I think you get thread-starting privileges once you hit 20 posts.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 09-14-2012 at 10:53 PM.
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09-15-2012, 09:21 AM
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#484
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,062
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I said at the beginning of the offseason that Carlisle was a great roster move. Now, I think that idea is getting validated.
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09-15-2012, 05:45 PM
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#485
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
I think his proclivity for vets is greater than most NBA coaches'. There's no mathematical test for that, of course, but that's how I see it. And this goes back to way before he was even with the Mavs.
I also think he's either the second-or third-best coach in the league, so it's certainly not a heavy criticism today.
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Who do you think is better? Spoelstra?
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09-15-2012, 09:17 PM
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#486
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Carlisle
Who do you think is better? Spoelstra?
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Pops is the only one I put above you, big guy.
Scott Brooks and Doc Rivers are a close third
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09-15-2012, 10:17 PM
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#487
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
Pops is the only one I put above you, big guy.
Scott Brooks and Doc Rivers are a close third
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Pops is definitely the only active coach in the league that I'd rate above Carlisle... And Doc Rivers is definitely a close third, but Scotty Brooks? Really?? I'd rate Thibodeau higher than him - maybe even Aldeman and Karl too. I think a ton of his success is due to the fact that he inherited Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka, still sucked, then grabbed Harden with the 3rd overall pick the next season.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 09-15-2012 at 10:19 PM.
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09-15-2012, 11:08 PM
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#488
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
Posts: 23,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Pops is definitely the only active coach in the league that I'd rate above Carlisle... And Doc Rivers is definitely a close third, but Scotty Brooks? Really?? I'd rate Thibodeau higher than him - maybe even Aldeman and Karl too. I think a ton of his success is due to the fact that he inherited Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka, still sucked, then grabbed Harden with the 3rd overall pick the next season.
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Wow. When you say it like that...it's a sad, sad state of affairs when it comes to NBA coaching talent level.
How did we get to this point? Did so many guys just throw up their hands and say to hell with it?
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09-16-2012, 12:34 AM
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#489
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Wow. When you say it like that...it's a sad, sad state of affairs when it comes to NBA coaching talent level.
How did we get to this point? Did so many guys just throw up their hands and say to hell with it?
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Agreed. And it's an interesting question.
Also agree with the rankings above. Rivers is the only guy I thought might be 2nd ahead of Rick. Pop is first obviously.
Love you, RC.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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09-16-2012, 09:21 AM
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#490
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,054
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And even Pop has had the greatest PF of all time playing for him. Pop would show me a lot more if he still coaches when Duncan retires.
Carlisle is the best coach in the league. And I think Adelman is probably second.
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09-16-2012, 09:29 AM
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#491
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DC
Posts: 4,712
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Hell, even Doc Rivers was on a short leash in Boston until Garnett, Allen, and Rondo showed up.
__________________
Quote:
RT @TyLawson3 Good game between Dallas and Portland. Good thing we didn't end up getting Dallas. Coach Karl lost his mind.
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09-16-2012, 09:53 AM
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#492
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayliss
And even Pop has had the greatest PF of all time playing for him. Pop would show me a lot more if he still coaches when Duncan retires.
Carlisle is the best coach in the league. And I think Adelman is probably second.
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For one thing, Duncan is not and never has been a power forward. He's a center. The "best PF of all-time" thing never made sense to me.
And I think Pop deserves a lot of credit for getting every sort of player to buy into and fit into his system. There have been a lot of misfits and poor fits that he's turned into great role players and that's not always an easy thing to do.
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09-16-2012, 10:13 AM
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#493
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,675
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Pop outcoached Rick many times when we played SAS. Even Rick admitted it.
But of course Rick is a great coach and right there with the best of them. I mean, just compare Avery and Rick during the finals....(and the GSW series)
Last edited by markus1234; 09-16-2012 at 10:24 AM.
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09-17-2012, 03:10 AM
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#494
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
209 lbs is the most current weight listed - if that's not accurate, then it probably won't be updated until the season begins... He was 200 lbs when he was drafted.
Also, I think you get thread-starting privileges once you hit 20 posts.
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so i can assume he gaines 10 punds in between rookie year and present time? i dont know he was just so explosive and looked more athletic rookie and sophmore year. he is still athletic but you dont see it now like you did those two years.
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09-17-2012, 10:23 AM
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#495
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayliss
Carlisle is the best coach in the league. And I think Adelman is probably second.
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No. And absolutely no.
Discrediting Pop because he has Duncan is patently absurd. Not only is it completely illogical, it also reduces us to impossibly imprecise comparisons between coaches by stripping them of their players.
And of course, listing Adelman as the second-best coach in the league is proof positive of that absurdity and imprecision.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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09-17-2012, 05:03 PM
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#496
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,054
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Quote:
Discrediting Pop because he has Duncan is patently absurd. Not only is it completely illogical, it also reduces us to impossibly imprecise comparisons between coaches by stripping them of their players.
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So you don't believe having the greatest PF of all time under your belt for your entire coaching career is a luxury?
There are some coaches that work well with star talent. Jackson is a fine example of that. There are some coaches that hate grooming talent. Jackson is a fine example of that. There are some coaches that are MacGyveresque in that they can mold a roster with parts and make them competitive and if they ever get a truly special player, then they win. Carlisle fits that mold. Adelmen fits that mold as well. He hasn't ever won a championship, but let's be real: the Kings were probably robbed more than the Mavs ever were in the early 2000's.
And then there are some coaches that have talent fall into their lap. Pop and Doc fit that bill.
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09-17-2012, 07:40 PM
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#497
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayliss
So you don't believe having the greatest PF of all time under your belt for your entire coaching career is a luxury?
There are some coaches that work well with star talent. Jackson is a fine example of that. There are some coaches that hate grooming talent. Jackson is a fine example of that. There are some coaches that are MacGyveresque in that they can mold a roster with parts and make them competitive and if they ever get a truly special player, then they win. Carlisle fits that mold. Adelmen fits that mold as well. He hasn't ever won a championship, but let's be real: the Kings were probably robbed more than the Mavs ever were in the early 2000's.
And then there are some coaches that have talent fall into their lap. Pop and Doc fit that bill.
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Like I said, if you try to strip coaches of players they "inherited" and judge them without those players, all you get is impossibly imprecise comparisons. People try to do this same thing all the time in every sport. It has rarely worked, if ever. The messed up thing is, if you try to judge coaches this way, your pool of candidates for "best coach" is literally never going to have the most decorated guys, since those guys invariably had one or several star players.
It also assumes that we can accurately judge people in their job performance after completely modifying (or ignoring) real-world results. Put it this way--if your method of judging coaches ends with you concluding that Coach B is better than Coach A (stats below), your method is almost certainly flawed.
Coach A: 4 NBA Championships, 4 NBA Finals Appearances, Career Record 847-399 (.680), Career Playoff Record 118-77 (.605)
Coach B: 0 NBA Championships, 2 NBA Finals Appearances, Career Record 971-656 (.597), Playoff Record 79-78 (.503)
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
Last edited by LonghornDub; 09-17-2012 at 07:53 PM.
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09-18-2012, 09:03 PM
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#498
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/2012/...medium=twitter
Quote:
New Mavericks executive and Texas Legends coach Eddie Najera has been helping with some informal workouts and said O.J. Mayo has been impressive during the off-season.
“You can see it in his eyes,” Najera said. “He looks like he’s really ready to move his game up.”
It’s been evident in the other players participating in the unofficial workouts.
“O.J. comes in with the work ethic and everybody falls in behind him,” Jared Cunningham said. “He’s a great teammate and he’s knocking shots down.
“His confidence is back. He’s in the gym every day — late nights and early mornings.”
Said owner Mark Cuban on Mayo: “I think he can be a star and I think O.J. knows that this is his make-or-break, who-am-I-really-going-to-be-in-this-league year. And Coach [Rick Carlisle] is going to give him that opportunity. We’ll see what happens.”
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09-18-2012, 09:57 PM
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#499
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
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[Like]
__________________
you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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09-19-2012, 12:48 AM
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#500
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 131
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I like all the good reports too, but how likely is it that you get the whole truth and nothing but the truth? How often do you hear of newly acquired players who look bad in their preseason workouts?
Do hope it´s all true though.
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09-19-2012, 06:53 PM
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#501
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 218
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George Karl is probably one of the best coaches-he makes the most out of what he has and he can control numbskulls and get them to focus on the game. Be interesting to see how he and McGee keep working together-McGee has a reputation for being an idiot on the court.
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09-19-2012, 07:32 PM
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#502
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurred1
George Karl is probably one of the best coaches-he makes the most out of what he has and he can control numbskulls and get them to focus on the game. Be interesting to see how he and McGee keep working together-McGee has a reputation for being an idiot on the court.
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Karl also has a pretty long, consistent history of wearing out on his players and clashing with superstars. I love him as an Xs and Os guy and as a short-term coach, but I'd say the likelihood that he is in Denver for more than 2 or 3 more years is pretty slim. JMO
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09-20-2012, 06:20 AM
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#503
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,054
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Quote:
but I'd say the likelihood that he is in Denver for more than 2 or 3 more years is pretty slim. JMO
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Well, the good news for him is they have turned over their roster quite a bit the last few years. Gone are: Melo/Martin/Nene/Anderson and a few others, and they have a lot of fresh blood on that team.
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09-20-2012, 06:22 PM
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#504
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayliss
Well, the good news for him is they have turned over their roster quite a bit the last few years. Gone are: Melo/Martin/Nene/Anderson and a few others, and they have a lot of fresh blood on that team.
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That's a good point that I didn't fully consider.... I'd still guess that he's more likely than not to get fired within 3ish years.
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11-05-2012, 11:38 PM
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#505
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Last edited by sefant77; 11-05-2012 at 11:38 PM.
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11-06-2012, 12:09 AM
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#506
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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He's a man on a mission
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11-06-2012, 03:08 AM
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#507
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
He's a man on a mission
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This gave me chills
__________________
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11-06-2012, 03:41 AM
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#508
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
Posts: 23,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
He's a man on a mission
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that you better believe, believe, believe...
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11-06-2012, 04:48 AM
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#509
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 116
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i tried to tell you guys and no one wanted to listen. the difference between Mayo and others is going to be his work ethic. he is a gym rat... Memphis organization after this year are gonna look like the biggest IDIOTS! i said i was looking for OJ to have a break out season and so far so good. no he wont shoot over 60 percent from 3 point for the year... but i believe he will prove his worth and a BIG payday is coming his way. I like this pairing i hope things work out and he stays in Dallas but believe me.... others will be offering big money for his services. i know for one Chicago is looking hard to pair mayo with rose when he comes back.
Last edited by tron#1; 11-06-2012 at 04:49 AM.
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11-06-2012, 08:26 AM
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#510
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,675
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Biggest idiots are probably the Indiana Pacers.
Collison for Mahinmi. Yessir.
Last edited by markus1234; 11-06-2012 at 08:27 AM.
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11-06-2012, 09:20 AM
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#511
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus1234
Biggest idiots are probably the Indiana Pacers.
Collison for Mahinmi. Yessir.
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I almost feel guilty for that one...
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11-06-2012, 09:44 AM
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#512
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,422
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I suppose it's still a wait and see kinda thing. Too early in the season.. But, so far, he's looking pretty dang good. Again, the idea of this year is to find some pieces that you feel you can move forward with. young pieces..
Crowder
Wright
Collison
Mayo
If those 4 pan out, it's an incredible year. And there's still a handful of other young guys that will get a shot as well.
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11-06-2012, 03:28 PM
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#513
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Where are those guys who were clamoring for Courtney Lee now? *cough...Thig*
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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11-06-2012, 05:42 PM
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#514
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
Where are those guys who were clamoring for Courtney Lee now? *cough...Thig*
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Personally, I'd still love to have Lee + Mayo. Doesn't seem like the Mavs were willing to assemble pieces that Houston would have liked for a SnT.
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11-07-2012, 03:48 AM
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#515
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom
For one thing, Duncan is not and never has been a power forward. He's a center. The "best PF of all-time" thing never made sense to me.
And I think Pop deserves a lot of credit for getting every sort of player to buy into and fit into his system. There have been a lot of misfits and poor fits that he's turned into great role players and that's not always an easy thing to do.
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At his best, 98-2003, Duncan was absolutely a pf. He hasn't been a pf in a long time though
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11-07-2012, 08:35 AM
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#516
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
Personally, I'd still love to have Lee + Mayo. Doesn't seem like the Mavs were willing to assemble pieces that Houston would have liked for a SnT.
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Sure, Lee is a nice additional piece to a team...but the conversation we had a few months ago was an "either or" discussion.
I'm just wondering how many are still on the Lee side of it.
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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11-07-2012, 09:19 AM
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#517
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,885
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Mayo Just looking for his huge payday. We'll see if he continues that intensity after a long term contract.
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11-07-2012, 09:31 AM
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#518
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan1000
Mayo Just looking for his huge payday. We'll see if he continues that intensity after a long term contract.
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Yes, thats why he didnt sign with the Bobcats or another trash team to average 22PPG...
And he knows that 16-18PPG with good efficiency on a playoff team helps him much more getting him his big contract than chucking his brain out on a bad team...
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11-07-2012, 01:19 PM
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#519
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 22,971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan1000
Mayo Just looking for his huge payday. We'll see if he continues that intensity after a long term contract.
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This opinion kinda puts Mayo in a damned if he does and damned if he doesn't situation. Would you prefer him to not play well?
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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11-07-2012, 03:18 PM
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#520
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
This opinion kinda puts Mayo in a damned if he does and damned if he doesn't situation. Would you prefer him to not play well?
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Of course not. Just don't get your hopes up in the future. It is all for the money. Just like many other players going the extra mile in their contract year and relax once they get that deal. Not sure Cuban is willing to fork out that extra money anyways though.
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