Is Kobe Bryant hurting Lakers late

[Dirkadirkastan]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet that Brian Cardinal was part of that '06 Memphis team.

[nwtzk]

Kobe is clutch.

[nowhereman]

No he isn't. Watch the games objectively - he'll make one shot and make a ton of stupid miostakes. Last night against the Kings for example, he hits two long jumpers and everyone thinks he's amazing, but what about the turnover that gave the kings the lead? What about the night before when Lamar had to bail his ass out? What about 2 nights before that when he had 3 turnovers and a foul on a 3 point play to make a 2 point deficit into a 14 point loss? What about all the advanced stats that say he ISN'T CLUTCH

And he's so ridiculously overrated historically. Without Pau Gasol and Phil Jackson, we're talking about someone between Monta Ellis and Clyde Drexler. For at least 7 years in his "prime" he hasn't been the best shooting guard in the NBA (McGrady, Arenas, Wade) yet some people think he's t5 all time. Same guy who pulled a Rick Barry in an elimination against the Suns, got pouty and demanded a trade to a contender, and "led" the Lakers, who's 2nd best player at the time was Caron Butler and 3d best player was Lamar Odom, to a 34-48 season the one year he didn't have Phil Jackson babysitting his ass. The greatest coach in NBA history wrote a freakin' book about how much he hated the guy, for crying out loud. He cost the city of LA at least as many championships as he won by chasing Shaq out of town and tearing his team apart in a finals loss.

But no, he does the contrived underbite and the lame-ass under-armor jersey tug and pouts and yells at teammates and calls referee's derogatory slurs and gets accused of rape but THIS is the media darling?

[nowhereman]

if he doesn't have artest to bail him out against phoenix, if yao ming doesn't get hurt, if pau gasol and ron don't save his ass in game 7 last year, maybe we'd still remember the real Kobe Bryant

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Bynum4MVP

You know, when it comes down to it, just ask this question:

With 24 seconds left in a 2 point game, which Mavericks fan would be yelling for Carlisle to let Kobe make the play and "hurt his team" instead of forcing it to Ron or Pau?

No, but there is a difference between that and taking 7 shots in 2:30 of a game and playing 1 on 5 offensivley

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Originally Posted by Bynum4MVP

These IF's don't happen often to the best closer in the game. In fact, the Lakers lost only something like 2 close games this year.

By my count, Lakers are 15-8 in games decided by 5 points or less (which is worse than their overall record). So I guess 8=2 in Laker math?

[Bynum4MVP]

Originally Posted by Mavericks Rockets Fan

So I guess 8=2 in Laker math?

Lol. I guess this is the difference between fans.

I suppose when you are a fan of a team looking for moral victories, 5 points is a close game. This is why Lebron and Wade are such 82games.com "clutch superstars".

But reality says this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APudE...embedded#at=11

3 points or less is the margin I go by (enough to win or lose a game) and the Lakers lost only 4.

Kobe is also undefeated in Overtime...nice clutch there too.

[Bynum4MVP]

Originally Posted by mavs777

No, but there is a difference between that and taking 7 shots in 2:30 of a game and playing 1 on 5 offensivley

Ok, so with 2:30 in the game, you'd be yelling for Carlisle to just let Kobe make all the plays because he's just going to "hurt his team"?

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Bynum4MVP

Ok, so with 2:30 in the game, you'd be yelling for Carlisle to just let Kobe make all the plays?

Considering kobes plays are shooting fallaway 20 footers, yes

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Bynum4MVP

Lol. I guess this is the difference between fans.

I suppose when you are a fan of a team looking for moral victories, 5 points is a close game. This is why Lebron and Wade are such 82games.com "clutch superstars".

But reality says this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APudE...embedded#at=11

3 points or less is the margin I go by (enough to win or lose a game) and the Lakers lost only 4.

Kobe is also undefeated in Overtime...nice clutch there too.

I am not sure what this is even suppose to mean, the Lakers record in close games is worse than their overrall record.

[Bynum4MVP]

Originally Posted by mavs777

he Lakers record in close games is worse than their overrall record.

You mean like every other good team in the NBA?

What good team has a better record in close games than their overall record?

Lol, now I'm not sure what you're supposed to be sayin'. What is your point in saying this?

[Bynum4MVP]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Considering kobes plays are shooting fallaway 20 footers, yes

Ah, I see.

Well theres a Lakers/Mavs series in a couple of weeks.

I'll keep an eye on the game threads here in the 4th quarter and see if you and your fellow Mav fans agree.

If I find any good ones about getting the ball out of Kobe's hands, I'll be sure to post them here...especially if Kobe hits a fadeaway game winner.

To be fair, if I see any posts urging Carlisle to put the ball in Kobe's hands so he can "hurt his team late in games", I'll post those too....if they exist.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Bynum4MVP

Well theres a Lakers/Mavs series in a couple of weeks.

Well at least you have faith in the Mavs 1st Round chances.

Thanks for that.

[Bynum4MVP]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Well at least you have faith in the Mavs 1st Round chances.

Thanks for that.

I have a healthy respect for the Mavs. I don't think enough people realize that the Mavs could just have easily been the #2 seed and even #1 without Butler's injury.

Dirk's a great player, and despite what some people say, he's also clutch.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

No he isn't. Watch the games objectively - he'll make one shot and make a ton of stupid miostakes. Last night against the Kings for example, he hits two long jumpers and everyone thinks he's amazing, but what about the turnover that gave the kings the lead? What about the night before when Lamar had to bail his ass out? What about 2 nights before that when he had 3 turnovers and a foul on a 3 point play to make a 2 point deficit into a 14 point loss? What about all the advanced stats that say he ISN'T CLUTCH

And he's so ridiculously overrated historically. Without Pau Gasol and Phil Jackson, we're talking about someone between Monta Ellis and Clyde Drexler. For at least 7 years in his "prime" he hasn't been the best shooting guard in the NBA (McGrady, Arenas, Wade) yet some people think he's t5 all time. Same guy who pulled a Rick Barry in an elimination against the Suns, got pouty and demanded a trade to a contender, and "led" the Lakers, who's 2nd best player at the time was Caron Butler and 3d best player was Lamar Odom, to a 34-48 season the one year he didn't have Phil Jackson babysitting his ass. The greatest coach in NBA history wrote a freakin' book about how much he hated the guy, for crying out loud. He cost the city of LA at least as many championships as he won by chasing Shaq out of town and tearing his team apart in a finals loss.

But no, he does the contrived underbite and the lame-ass under-armor jersey tug and pouts and yells at teammates and calls referee's derogatory slurs and gets accused of rape but THIS is the media darling?

Great post, agree with every single word. Well, of course i agree, you listed facts only.

[mavs777]

beautiful 4rth for kobe right

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Originally Posted by Bynum4MVP

Lol. I guess this is the difference between fans.

I suppose when you are a fan of a team looking for moral victories, 5 points is a close game. This is why Lebron and Wade are such 82games.com "clutch superstars".

But reality says this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APudE...embedded#at=11

3 points or less is the margin I go by (enough to win or lose a game) and the Lakers lost only 4.

Kobe is also undefeated in Overtime...nice clutch there too.

Ok, so I was wrong. 4=2 in Laker math...

The Lakers were 4-4 in games decided by 3 points or less. Again, that is .500 and demonstrates that Kobe is at best average when it comes to clutch shooting. You have made the argument for me...

[Underdog]

87-90 | 4:30 Kobe Bryant misses 25-foot three point jumper
87-90 | 4:01 Tyson Chandler blocks Kobe Bryant's jumper
87-92 | 3:32 Kobe Bryant makes 17-foot jumper
89-92 | 2:42 Kobe Bryant misses 19-foot jumper
91-94 | 1:00 Kobe Bryant makes 11-foot two point shot
93-94 | 0:20 Kobe Bryant bad pass (Jason Terry steal)
96-94 | 0:02 Kobe Bryant misses 26-foot three point jumper


He had zero assists tonight...

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by Bynum4MVP

Pau never won a Playoff game without Kobe in 12 tries. A shut out even with a prime Bonzi Wells, Mike Miller, Damon Stoudemire, Shane Battier and James Posey.

Pau's team was a better cast than Kobe's Odom, Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton, Laron Profit, Brian Cook, Slava Medvedenko, etc.

you mean... the one that didn't make it to the playoffs?