Congrats to the 6th BEST running back off all TIMES!!! - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

FilthyFinMavs · 10-28-2002, 04:08 PM

You are right on there Kid. I put Emmitt infront of OJ but it isnt something I would argue you down with.

Dirks Cuzin · 10-28-2002, 05:09 PM

another very good point is the best blocking fullback to ever play the game, one of u guys find out who the bears Fullback was in Walters time, and if the boys o-line got better because of Emmit, wouldnt that mean that Walters o-line and Barrys o-line were just as good? NO! Emmits o-line was obviously a ton better. I got the same exact top 5 as the Kid.

MFFL · 10-28-2002, 06:06 PM

Roland Harper was the fullback from 1975 to 1981 he averaged over 400 yards per year from 75 to 81. He also gained 992 yards in 1978.

Matt Suhey was the fullback from 1981 to 1988 - he averaged over 400 yards per year from 81 to 86.

Dooby · 10-28-2002, 06:12 PM

Best O-line in the game lost its first two games and had a poor rushing attack during the first two games of the '93 season. Then, miraculously, considering some say Emmitt ain't that good, Emmitt came back and rushed for 100+ yards in his first game of the 1993 season. In 1993, without Emmitt, the 'Boys went 0-2. With Emmitt (including playoffs), the 'Boys went 17-1 and won the superbowl. And, despite missing the first 2 games of the season, Emmitt still led the league in rushing that year. BTW, he was also the superbowl MVP.

dude1394 · 10-28-2002, 06:54 PM

<< Best O-line in the game lost its first two games and had a poor rushing attack during the first two games of the '93 season. Then, miraculously, considering some say Emmitt ain't that good, Emmitt came back and rushed for 100+ yards in his first game of the 1993 season. In 1993, without Emmitt, the 'Boys went 0-2. With Emmitt (including playoffs), the 'Boys went 17-1 and won the superbowl. And, despite missing the first 2 games of the season, Emmitt still led the league in rushing that year. BTW, he was also the superbowl MVP. >>

Wow that emmitt guy sounds like a pretty good running back. I bet that he will run for more yards and touchdowns than anyone in the history of the game.

Dirks Cuzin · 10-28-2002, 07:40 PM

now would someone plz get the same stats of The mooses running yards, and find out if the other 2 FBs from the Bears were good at blocking and paste it, I have a very very good point coming on. Im too lazy to get them, if u guys do, I would appreciate it

Dirks Cuzin · 10-28-2002, 07:52 PM

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS AND KEEP IN MIND, OJ PLAYED WITH 14 GAMES A SEASON TOO, HE PLAYED WITH A HORRIBLE TEAM, U CAN GO LOOK IT UP IF U WANT, PLZ READ THIS

A question that has been asked many times is, Who's the best running back to ever play in the NFL? The fact that the literature record is ccmplete with many papers over the years that have asked that very question and have attempted to compare various running backs is proof that authors have tried to answer the question. This author has considered this question many times and has even gone so far as to try and devise a truly unbiased scheme where running backs may be evaluated but has found it difficult to do so without considering many parameters. The scheme that this author has developed is the topic for another discussion and is not the main topic of discussion for this paper.

The NFL record book deals strictly with the magnitude of a performance and does not make any attempt to establish the quality of one performance with respect to another. As a student of the game of football, with a soft spot for the running back position, this author has studied the performances of running backs and in particular the career of Jim Brown has been studied in considerable depth. Since Jim Brown retired after the 1965 season no other running back has dominated the position like Jim Brown did and in so doing literally rewrote the NFL record book. The legacy of Jim Brown lives on to this day and it is his career performance, made possible by a unique blend of speed, balance, size and power, that represents the yardstick by which all running backs are measured against. To this day no other running back has been able to do what Jim Brown did in the way that he did it.

Jim Brown is the only running back in the history of the NFL that can boast career numbers for the three benchmarks most commonly associated with the performance of a running back, those being; 5 yards per carry, 100 yards per game and a 1,000 yards per season. Jim Brown managed to establish the following career numbers; 5.22 rushing yards per carry, 104.34 rushing yards per game and 1,368.00 rushing yards per season. The NFL record book does not recognize yards per game or yards per season but it does recog-nize the number of 100 yard games, the number of 1,000 yard seasons and the yards per carry. As matter of fact, the career yards per season value for the nine season career of Jim Brown is somewhat misleading since four were twelve game seasons and five were fourteen game seasons, Mr. Brown averaged 1,263.75 and 1,1451.40 yards per season respectively. By comparison and as a point of reference, Walter Payton had a career 4.36 rushing yards per carry, 88.03 rushing yards per game and 1,286.62 rushing yards per season average.

It is a well known fact that Walter Payton holds the single game rushing yardage record of 275 yards, on 40 carries, but it is not well known that until last season Jim Brown held the single game rushing yardage record for a rookie of 237 yards on 31 carries. At the time, November 1957, the 237 yards was also the NFL single game rushing yardage record. Until last season, the best rooke performance, next to that of Jim Brown, is 223 yards by Tom Wilson in 1956 which, by the way, was the former NFL single game rushing yardage record and also the rookie single game rushing yardage record.

In the game today, with sixteen game seasons, a 1,000 yard rushing season by a running back does not mean as much as it once did, especially since twelve game seasons were the norm from 1947 to 1960. Prior to 1957, when Jim Brown came into the league, there had only been seven 1,000 rushing performances and only Steve Van Buren and Joe Perry had rushed for 1,000 yards twice each during that period. Just to put the period in NFL history and the accomplishment of rushing for 1,000 yards in a season into perspective, Jim Brown is the only running back in NFL history to rush for 1,000 yards three times in a twelve game season. To put icing on the cake, the three seasons were consecutive seasons (1958, 1959 and 1960), Jim Brown led the NFL in rushing all three seasons and oh, by the way, the 1958 season was the season that Mr. Brown broke the single season rushing yardage record set by Steve Van Buren in 1949. In fact, only two running backs in the history of the NFL have set the single season rushing yardage record twice during their careers. Those two running backs are Steve Van Buren, who set the single season rushing yardage record in 1947 (1,008 yards) and again in 1949 (1,146 yards), and Jim Brown, who set the single season rushing yardage record in 1958 (1,527 yards) and again in 1963 (1,863 yards). The NFL record book lists all the 1,000 yard rushing performances recorded in a season and who recorded them, but the NFL record book does not mention anything about the fastest to a 1,000 yards and who performed the feat. The interest in the fastest to 1,000 yards statistic is that it has only been accomplished three times by two different running backs. The record for the fastest to 1,000 rushing yards for the season is seven games and it was first accomplished by Jim Brown who managed to rush for 1,011 yards, on 152 carries, in the first seven games of the 1958. O.J. Simpson accomplished the feat twice, first in 1973 when he recorded 1,025 yards on 177 carries, and again in 1975 when he recorded 1,005 yards on 192 carries.

An interesting fact about the NFL record book is that it does not mention the single game rushing yardage high for each season or the number of times a running back led the league in the number of 100 yard rushing games in a season. Jim Brown led the NFL with the most 100 yard rushing games in eight of the nine seasons he played and Mr. Brown also managed to record the single game rushing yardage high in four of the nine seasons that he played. A little known fact is that Jim Brown, in 1963, and O.J. Simpson, in 1975, are the only running backs in NFL history to lead the NFL in all seven major rushing categories for a single season, those categories are; 1) rushing yardage, 2) rushing carries, 3) yards per carry, 4) rushing touchdowns, 5) longest run from scrimmage, 6) number of 100 yard games and 7) single game rushing yardage.

Today, as the pages of the NFL record book are perused it becomes very evident that many of the NFL records that Jim Brown set have been surpassed, from a magnitude point of view, but his performances have not been improved upon. For example, O.J. Simpson rushed for 2,003 yards on 332 carries in 1973 to break the single season record of 1,863 yards on 291 carries set in 1963 by Jim Brown. Both the 1963 and the 1973 seasons were fourteen game seasons but by the end of the thirteenth game O.J. Simpson had carried the ball 298 times for 1,803 yards, which was seven carries more than Jim Brown had carried the ball in all fourteen games during the 1963 season and for sixty less yards. The real question that has to be asked is, How many yards could Jim Brown have rushed for had he carried the ball 332 times in 1963? Another example for consideration is the fact that during the 1989 season Eric Dickerson managed to record his 58th 100 yard rushing game in 104 career games played which to that point in his career, Eric had rushed for 11,172 yards on 2,434 carries. Jim Brown had set the NFL standard for the most 100 yard rushing games in a career with 58 and recorded his 58th career 100 yard rushing game in the 116th game of his career. After the 116th game, Jim Brown had rushed for 12,218 yards on 2,334 carries to that point in his career. To put into perspective the career accomplishment of rushing for 100 yards 58 times in 118 career regular season games, keep in mind that prior to the 1957 season the NFL record for career 100 yard rushing games was 18 and was set by Steve Van Buren during his eight season career from 1944 to 1951.

The NFL record book has, over the years, provided a means for the past to slowly be forgotten by considering only the magnitude of a performance and treating all performances on an equal basis irrespective of the number of carries or the number of games in a season or a career. This author is of the opinion that the performances of the past may be more fairly equated to the performances of today, if the NFL also included separate statistical records for twelve, fourteen and sixteen game season performances in addition to the overall records that the NFL presently publishes. The net effect will be a greatly expanded record book which will be more meaningful to readers in this, the information age.

The author welcomes any comments that readers may have and invites readers to send them to the author at 9002 Sheridan Road, Lot #180, Kenosha, WI 53143.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dirks Cuzin · 10-28-2002, 07:54 PM

won Heisman Trophy in 1968 at USC; ran for 2,003 yards in NFL in 1973; All-Pro 5 times; MVP in 1973; rushed for 11,236 career yards; TV analyst and actor after career ended; arrested June 17, 1994 as suspect in double murder of ex-wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman; acquitted on Oct. 3, 1995 by a Los Angeles jury in criminal trial but forced to make financial reparations after losing wrongful death suit.

Ghost Face · 10-28-2002, 07:56 PM

Can't say that I know much about Roland Harper, but Suhey was a very decent fullback and even All-Star caliber over a 2-3 year span. D.J. was still a Pro-Bowl caliber player when he left the game with his neck injury, even after he had turned in 4-5 excellent years.

During 96,97,98 the Cowboys had 8 offensive linemen(out of 19 total selections) still make Pro Bowl appearance even though Emmitt did not make the team again until 1999. After 1996, Emmitt has not reached the 1,400 yard plateau again and talks of Emmitt's skills declining began to surface rapidly. His production fell way off, but somehow his lineman still got to the Pro Bowl with Emmitt registering his 3 worst seasons ever to that point. I don't believe that the linemen were still being sent to Pro Bowls out of respect for Emmett, so I give the guys some credit where it is deserved. You can only judge an offensive line and fullback group by Pro Bowls, rushing titles and by the defenses that they dominated. Eric Dickerson stopped winning rushing titles when he left the awesome line in L.A., even though he still posted some decent seasons.

And who can forgot the performance turned in by Derrick Lassic those first 2 games of the 1993 season. He was so good he couldn't stick in the league for more than one year. He made Sherman Williams look good.

MFFL · 10-28-2002, 07:59 PM

<< Im too lazy to get them, >>

Why would I bother to get stats to prove YOUR point? That doesn't make any sense at all. If you want to make a point that someone will respect then do your research.

Dirks Cuzin · 10-28-2002, 08:16 PM

stop b.s and respond to what I said. Do u have anything to say? O.J was far better than Emmit with a bad team, BAD, if u want me to, I will get facts, Im telling the truth, O.J. rushed for 2,003 yards one season with a 7-7 record. Jims better because of the passage I just posted. Barry was better because he also played with a BAD team for many years. He still got his yards. If Barry had a bunch of negative yards, doesnt that mean that those yards are found somewhere else or maybe he was facing way better team with a D-Line. Emmit is not #1, if u think that, Im sorry, hes a 5, maybe 6. Holla back Reeds

dude1394 · 10-28-2002, 08:24 PM

Better get 'em because emmitt is the best, says so right in the record books. And OJ doesn't even make the top 10..

All-Time Leading Rushers
Player Years Att Yds Avg TD
Emmitt Smith* 13 3,929 16,743 4.3 150 (*active)
Walter Payton 13 3,838 16,726 4.4 110
Barry Sanders 10 3,062 15,269 5.0 99
Eric Dickerson 11 2,996 13,259 4.4 90
Tony Dorsett 12 2,936 12,739 4.3 77
Jim Brown 9 2,359 12,312 5.2 106
Marcus Allen 16 3,022 12,243 4.1 123
Franco Harris 13 2,949 12,120 4.1 91
Thurman Thomas 13 2,877 12,074 4.2 65
John Riggins 14 2,916 11,352 3.9 104

MFFL · 10-28-2002, 10:10 PM

<< if u want me to, I will get facts, >>

Where are they?

Emmitt gained as many yards in 8 years as OJ did in 11 (11234 to 11236).

OJ's stats

1969 buf 181 697 3.9
1970 buf 120 488 4.1
1971 buf 183 742 4.1
1972 buf 292 1251 4.3
1973 buf 332 2003 6.0
1974 buf 270 1125 4.2
1975 buf 329 1817 5.5
1976 buf 290 1503 5.2
1977 buf 126 557 4.4
1978 sfo 161 593 3.7
1979 sfo 120 460 3.8
2404 11236 4.7

Edited to correct the number of years it took Emmitt to pass OJ.

Dirks Cuzin · 10-29-2002, 07:08 PM

hey dude, link me up to where u found that, I wanna make sure

reeds · 10-29-2002, 07:33 PM

and you guys are all talking about that offensive line and their pro-bowls. Guess what? Aikman and his wide-receivers played just as big a role as the O-Line did. Hear me out. You can have the best O line ever, but if your team is ONE demensional, sooner or later, the NFL will just put 9 in the box, and make you beat them. You CANNOT be one dementional, and DALLAS WAS NOT. THeir balance also make Emmitt great. Weapons everywhere. SERIOUSLY- you put Barry Sanders on a team with those weapons, where you have to respect the pass- what do u guys think he would have done? SHIT- I know..he would still be running....

Instead, Barry Had weapons like...Hipple,Mike McMahon,Charlie batch, Don Majkowski,Scott Mitchell...thats just off the top of my head..Those QBs put a scare into anyone??? No, everyone keyed on Barry, and Barry still kicked their asses...

dude1394 · 10-29-2002, 07:52 PM

<< hey dude, link me up to where u found that, I wanna make sure >>

Sorry I can't find the whole list. Here's the top 5.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/payton/index
It was on some page right after the record was broken.

MFFL · 10-30-2002, 12:48 AM

<< hey dude, link me up to where u found that, I wanna make sure >>

The best site I've ever found for player stats is this one. I haven't found an error yet but I'm sure there are some. Every player who has ever played in recent memory is there.

http://www.football-reference.com/players/

A great site for team stats is this one. There is also a MLB, NBA, and NHL version.

http://www.mcubed.net/nfl/nfl.htm

FINtastic · 10-30-2002, 01:08 AM

MFFL, I remember once going there and just being amazed at how that Football Reference site had everyone. It's a great site with lots of stats.

Dirks Cuzin · 10-30-2002, 10:00 PM

thats not where it is dude, it wasnt there

dude1394 · 10-30-2002, 11:21 PM

<< thats not where it is dude, it wasnt there >>

Did the link work?? If so it's on the bottom of the page by the rushing leaders.

Ghost Face · 10-31-2002, 06:35 PM

All stats aside, the best possible way to ever evaluate a player is with game footage. Check out ESPN Classic right now. They have been showing Emmitt game footage all day long and it is still going on right now with a college game against LSU.

Dirks Cuzin · 11-01-2002, 10:27 PM

it worked, naw, it wasnt at the bottom

Dirks Cuzin · 08-30-2003, 10:21 PM

Im bumping this up from a long long time ago back when the day he broke his record

I find it a very very compelling argument... Anyone wanna keep rollin with it? Cuz its fun to debate about this... Read this whole thing first if u want to see whats happening.. Dude 1394... Im waiting for u to come and debate with me

reeds · 08-30-2003, 10:37 PM

I couldnt quite figure out how this got back, but since I started the thread, I will say this..I am sticking by my statement...period..there is NO he is the best back ever, even with the record. Just my opinion of course, but....not top three either.

Dirks Cuzin · 08-30-2003, 11:33 PM

Hey Reeds, hes not even top 4

MFFL · 08-31-2003, 12:00 AM

Why continue this argument? I crushed you both the last time.

Dirks Cuzin · 08-31-2003, 12:05 AM

u wish, we killed u guys...

MFFL · 08-31-2003, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Dirks Cuzin
now would someone plz get the same stats of The mooses running yards, and find out if the other 2 FBs from the Bears were good at blocking and paste it, I have a very very good point coming on. Im too lazy to get them, if u guys do, I would appreciate it

Lazy people don't win arguments.

Dirks Cuzin · 08-31-2003, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Dirks Cuzin
PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS AND KEEP IN MIND, OJ PLAYED WITH 14 GAMES A SEASON TOO, HE PLAYED WITH A HORRIBLE TEAM, U CAN GO LOOK IT UP IF U WANT, PLZ READ THIS

A question that has been asked many times is, Who's the best running back to ever play in the NFL? The fact that the literature record is ccmplete with many papers over the years that have asked that very question and have attempted to compare various running backs is proof that authors have tried to answer the question. This author has considered this question many times and has even gone so far as to try and devise a truly unbiased scheme where running backs may be evaluated but has found it difficult to do so without considering many parameters. The scheme that this author has developed is the topic for another discussion and is not the main topic of discussion for this paper.

The NFL record book deals strictly with the magnitude of a performance and does not make any attempt to establish the quality of one performance with respect to another. As a student of the game of football, with a soft spot for the running back position, this author has studied the performances of running backs and in particular the career of Jim Brown has been studied in considerable depth. Since Jim Brown retired after the 1965 season no other running back has dominated the position like Jim Brown did and in so doing literally rewrote the NFL record book. The legacy of Jim Brown lives on to this day and it is his career performance, made possible by a unique blend of speed, balance, size and power, that represents the yardstick by which all running backs are measured against. To this day no other running back has been able to do what Jim Brown did in the way that he did it.

Jim Brown is the only running back in the history of the NFL that can boast career numbers for the three benchmarks most commonly associated with the performance of a running back, those being; 5 yards per carry, 100 yards per game and a 1,000 yards per season. Jim Brown managed to establish the following career numbers; 5.22 rushing yards per carry, 104.34 rushing yards per game and 1,368.00 rushing yards per season. The NFL record book does not recognize yards per game or yards per season but it does recog-nize the number of 100 yard games, the number of 1,000 yard seasons and the yards per carry. As matter of fact, the career yards per season value for the nine season career of Jim Brown is somewhat misleading since four were twelve game seasons and five were fourteen game seasons, Mr. Brown averaged 1,263.75 and 1,1451.40 yards per season respectively. By comparison and as a point of reference, Walter Payton had a career 4.36 rushing yards per carry, 88.03 rushing yards per game and 1,286.62 rushing yards per season average.

It is a well known fact that Walter Payton holds the single game rushing yardage record of 275 yards, on 40 carries, but it is not well known that until last season Jim Brown held the single game rushing yardage record for a rookie of 237 yards on 31 carries. At the time, November 1957, the 237 yards was also the NFL single game rushing yardage record. Until last season, the best rooke performance, next to that of Jim Brown, is 223 yards by Tom Wilson in 1956 which, by the way, was the former NFL single game rushing yardage record and also the rookie single game rushing yardage record.

In the game today, with sixteen game seasons, a 1,000 yard rushing season by a running back does not mean as much as it once did, especially since twelve game seasons were the norm from 1947 to 1960. Prior to 1957, when Jim Brown came into the league, there had only been seven 1,000 rushing performances and only Steve Van Buren and Joe Perry had rushed for 1,000 yards twice each during that period. Just to put the period in NFL history and the accomplishment of rushing for 1,000 yards in a season into perspective, Jim Brown is the only running back in NFL history to rush for 1,000 yards three times in a twelve game season. To put icing on the cake, the three seasons were consecutive seasons (1958, 1959 and 1960), Jim Brown led the NFL in rushing all three seasons and oh, by the way, the 1958 season was the season that Mr. Brown broke the single season rushing yardage record set by Steve Van Buren in 1949. In fact, only two running backs in the history of the NFL have set the single season rushing yardage record twice during their careers. Those two running backs are Steve Van Buren, who set the single season rushing yardage record in 1947 (1,008 yards) and again in 1949 (1,146 yards), and Jim Brown, who set the single season rushing yardage record in 1958 (1,527 yards) and again in 1963 (1,863 yards). The NFL record book lists all the 1,000 yard rushing performances recorded in a season and who recorded them, but the NFL record book does not mention anything about the fastest to a 1,000 yards and who performed the feat. The interest in the fastest to 1,000 yards statistic is that it has only been accomplished three times by two different running backs. The record for the fastest to 1,000 rushing yards for the season is seven games and it was first accomplished by Jim Brown who managed to rush for 1,011 yards, on 152 carries, in the first seven games of the 1958. O.J. Simpson accomplished the feat twice, first in 1973 when he recorded 1,025 yards on 177 carries, and again in 1975 when he recorded 1,005 yards on 192 carries.

An interesting fact about the NFL record book is that it does not mention the single game rushing yardage high for each season or the number of times a running back led the league in the number of 100 yard rushing games in a season. Jim Brown led the NFL with the most 100 yard rushing games in eight of the nine seasons he played and Mr. Brown also managed to record the single game rushing yardage high in four of the nine seasons that he played. A little known fact is that Jim Brown, in 1963, and O.J. Simpson, in 1975, are the only running backs in NFL history to lead the NFL in all seven major rushing categories for a single season, those categories are; 1) rushing yardage, 2) rushing carries, 3) yards per carry, 4) rushing touchdowns, 5) longest run from scrimmage, 6) number of 100 yard games and 7) single game rushing yardage.

Today, as the pages of the NFL record book are perused it becomes very evident that many of the NFL records that Jim Brown set have been surpassed, from a magnitude point of view, but his performances have not been improved upon. For example, O.J. Simpson rushed for 2,003 yards on 332 carries in 1973 to break the single season record of 1,863 yards on 291 carries set in 1963 by Jim Brown. Both the 1963 and the 1973 seasons were fourteen game seasons but by the end of the thirteenth game O.J. Simpson had carried the ball 298 times for 1,803 yards, which was seven carries more than Jim Brown had carried the ball in all fourteen games during the 1963 season and for sixty less yards. The real question that has to be asked is, How many yards could Jim Brown have rushed for had he carried the ball 332 times in 1963? Another example for consideration is the fact that during the 1989 season Eric Dickerson managed to record his 58th 100 yard rushing game in 104 career games played which to that point in his career, Eric had rushed for 11,172 yards on 2,434 carries. Jim Brown had set the NFL standard for the most 100 yard rushing games in a career with 58 and recorded his 58th career 100 yard rushing game in the 116th game of his career. After the 116th game, Jim Brown had rushed for 12,218 yards on 2,334 carries to that point in his career. To put into perspective the career accomplishment of rushing for 100 yards 58 times in 118 career regular season games, keep in mind that prior to the 1957 season the NFL record for career 100 yard rushing games was 18 and was set by Steve Van Buren during his eight season career from 1944 to 1951.

The NFL record book has, over the years, provided a means for the past to slowly be forgotten by considering only the magnitude of a performance and treating all performances on an equal basis irrespective of the number of carries or the number of games in a season or a career. This author is of the opinion that the performances of the past may be more fairly equated to the performances of today, if the NFL also included separate statistical records for twelve, fourteen and sixteen game season performances in addition to the overall records that the NFL presently publishes. The net effect will be a greatly expanded record book which will be more meaningful to readers in this, the information age.

The author welcomes any comments that readers may have and invites readers to send them to the author at 9002 Sheridan Road, Lot #180, Kenosha, WI 53143.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I got em didnt I

MFFL · 08-31-2003, 12:26 AM

You found AN article.

I'm so proud of you. Maybe if you continue to improve you MIGHT be a worthy opponent.

reeds · 08-31-2003, 11:36 AM

bottom line is simple- you put Barry, OJ, Dickerson,Walter and Jim Brown in the same situation Emitt was, they all would have had more yards..can i prove it? Of course not.. Emmitt had the perfect situation in Dallas, for a good running back to be in, and he took full advantage of it....Yes, he is the all time leader is yards- the best? NOT A CHANCE