Chris Kaman to the Mavs

[|_Jeff_|]

Kaman is massively overrated by Mavs fans. Is there a center in the NBA with slower feet? Dirk and Kaman frontcourt will get exposed on defense and Brand will be the starting C by January even though he's undersized.

Good job by MBT getting fans excited though. Kaman has always been popular with the fanbase.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

I must admit that there is no way I could have predicted the way this thread has gone. From Kaman to gender-specific insults to genital mutilation. New members are probably sucking their thumbs, in the fetal position, while hiding under their bed after reading this thread... only at D-M.com

Us old timers that have been around awhile weren't scared off. Actually, after reading this thread yesterday, I went home and mutilated my genitals just so I could fit in with the rest of you.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

Kaman is massively overrated by Mavs fans. Is there a center in the NBA with slower feet? Dirk and Kaman frontcourt will get exposed on defense and Brand will be the starting C by January even though he's undersized.

Good job by MBT getting fans excited though. Kaman has always been popular with the fanbase.

[howdoesmydirktaste]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

Kaman is massively overrated by Mavs fans. Is there a center in the NBA with slower feet? Dirk and Kaman frontcourt will get exposed on defense and Brand will be the starting C by January even though he's undersized.

Good job by MBT getting fans excited though. Kaman has always been popular with the fanbase.

And I'm sure you were excited about our 2011 team going into the season, right? Have a little faith in the MBT. Everyone complained when we signed Chandler, but we found a way to make him work in Rick's system.

Kaman may have slow feet, but he has an offensive game. A lot of centers have slow feet. I guess we will truly find out if he's overrated once the season starts. If he gives us offense and holds his own on defense then he is better than Haywood.

[|_Jeff_|]

Originally Posted by howdoesmydirktaste

And I'm sure you were excited about our 2011 team going into the season, right? Have a little faith in the MBT. Everyone complained when we signed Chandler, but we found a way to make him work in Rick's system.

Kaman may have slow feet, but he has an offensive game. A lot of centers have slow feet. I guess we will truly find out if he's overrated once the season starts. If he gives us offense and holds his own on defense then he is better than Haywood.

I'd rather have Haywood TBQH. Check back in January and see where the forum stands. The amnesty was about contract length and financial flexibility, not about an upgrade at the position.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

I'd rather have Haywood TBQH. Check back in January and see where the forum stands. The amnesty was about contract length and financial flexibility, not about an upgrade at the position.

Posts like this should result in a mandatory banning from this site.

Seriously, this might be the stupidest thing I've ever read... You trolling?

[nodir41]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

I'd rather have Haywood TBQH. Check back in January and see where the forum stands. The amnesty was about contract length and financial flexibility, not about an upgrade at the position.

Have u ever watched a single Mavs Game the last 3 years?

[markus1234]

@|_Jeff_|

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PygS...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb2AdKw6qqg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4-wIU9KKUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fI7NLwMl9M

[dude1394]

I dont know why folks are jumping on this guy, folks have been arguing that Haywood was a fine starting center for a year now.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

Kaman is massively overrated by Mavs fans. Is there a center in the NBA with slower feet? Dirk and Kaman frontcourt will get exposed on defense and Brand will be the starting C by January even though he's undersized.

Good job by MBT getting fans excited though. Kaman has always been popular with the fanbase.

Brands "feet" are pretty slow if that's what you're nitpicking here. On top of yes he is undersized. I don't see your prediction unless Kaman is injured.

[Dale4Saul2Red0]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I dont know why folks are jumping on this guy, folks have been arguing that Haywood was a fine starting center for a year now.

You know that wasn't me.

People get mad because poster above said Kaman isn't all that. Kaman isn't all that I agree, I think he's better than Haywood but not by a crazy lot. They both do things differently. I like the offensive boost Kaman will bring from the center position and I know his defense is crap but you aren't going to find perfect guys on 1 year deals. Every player has strengths and weakness, our championship team had them. It's about a coach using a teams strengths to their advantage and covering up the weaknesses as best as possible.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I dont know why folks are jumping on this guy, folks have been arguing that Haywood was a fine starting center for a year now.

I get that your ass is still chapped about Chandler, but don't go putting words in people's mouths...

Folks on this board have been arguing that Haywood is underrated as a player (especially during our championship run), but that certainly doesn't imply that he's better than Kaman in any way, shape or form - like this Jeff guy is suggesting. The biggest "defense" of Haywood has been that the Mavericks shouldn't/wouldn't amnesty him just for the sake of amnestying him when Mahinmi and Wright are the only viable alternatives on the roster... Chris Kaman is most certainly a viable alternative, light years better than Haywood in pretty much every aspect of the game.

Oh, and Haywood IS a starting center in this league - he's just more suited to be starting for a team with the Bobcats' aspirations, not the Mavericks'...

[Murphy3]

Kaman's a good NBA center. He's nothing great. But, he's better than what the team had to offer last year. So is Brand. That's a start at least.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Kaman's a good NBA center. He's nothing great. But, he's better than what the team had to offer last year. So is Brand. That's a start at least.

He's certainly no Tyson Chandler, but his overall talent level (when healthy) is definitely a lot closer to Chandler's than Haywood's...

[Murphy3]

I think Brand and Kaman will both enjoy playing with Dirk. When was the last time the Mavs had a center that could actually create just a bit to play alongside Dirk?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I think Brand and Kaman will both enjoy playing with Dirk. When was the last time the Mavs had a center that could actually create just a bit to play alongside Dirk?

I once had a dream that Shawn Bradley could create his own offense - does that count?

[howdoesmydirktaste]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

I'd rather have Haywood TBQH. Check back in January and see where the forum stands. The amnesty was about contract length and financial flexibility, not about an upgrade at the position.

Haywood put up 5 PPG last season, 6 RPG, 0.4 APG and shot .469 from the charity stripe. He got 1 BPG. Not worth $8 million. Kaman more than doubled his PPG, had one more RPG, shot 25% better on FT and was much better at blocking. He also had 2 APG (not as important, but not bad for a C).

Yes, I am willing to bet that Kaman will be much better than that in January. He's an upgrade in all the listed categories.

The best thing Haywood ever did for us is hurt his hip. It made Chandler an Ian step up when it mattered most.

Also, his contract would have been irrelevant had he performed better. He wasn't worth either the money or years, so he was amnestied. It came down to performance.

And for what it's worth, Kaman is three years younger than Haywood.

[saclare]

How does his Dirk taste?

[purplefrog]

I really don't see how you could give the nod to Haywood over Kaman.

Haywood: Career Stats

• 7.2 ppg
• 59% ft%
• 6.2 rpg
• 1.4 bpg
• 0.6 apg

Kaman: Career Stats

• 11.9 ppg
• 74% ft%
• 8.3 rpg
• 1.4 bpg
• 1.4 apg

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I get that your ass is still chapped about Chandler, but don't go putting words in people's mouths...

Folks on this board have been arguing that Haywood is underrated as a player (especially during our championship run), but that certainly doesn't imply that he's better than Kaman in any way, shape or form - like this Jeff guy is suggesting. The biggest "defense" of Haywood has been that the Mavericks shouldn't/wouldn't amnesty him just for the sake of amnestying him when Mahinmi and Wright are the only viable alternatives on the roster... Chris Kaman is most certainly a viable alternative, light years better than Haywood in pretty much every aspect of the game.

Oh, and Haywood IS a starting center in this league - he's just more suited to be starting for a team with the Bobcats' aspirations, not the Mavericks'...

Whatever dude and you are employing some pretty selective memory here. In arguing why Tyson wasn't worth keeping folks on this board, I dont recall if it were you because I don't pay much attention to you. But folks that I do, Thiggy and g_master have certainly argued the merits of Haywood.

Why you want to bust someone's chops for thinking Haywood will be a better center for this team than kaman is beyond me. Haywood isn't much but voicing that they think he is better than another amnesty case doesn't seem far enough out of the realm of possibilities to be called a troll, idiot and dumbest post ever.

I'm sure you have much dumber ones.

And for what it is worth I expect brand to push kaman pretty hard for the starting spot.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Whatever dude and you are employing some pretty selective memory here. In arguing why Tyson wasn't worth keeping folks on this board, I dont recall if it were you because I don't pay much attention to you. But folks that I do, Thiggy and g_master have certainly argued the merits of Haywood.

Speaking of selective memory...

The #1 argument against keeping Tyson Chandler was his $14.5M/year price tag that would have kept us from pursuing any other big name free agent over the next couple years - NOBODY argued that Haywood was a better player. Nobody.

Seriously, dude - your bit has gotten old.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I really don't see how you could give the nod to Haywood over Kaman.

Haywood: Career Stats

• 7.2 ppg
• 59% ft%
• 6.2 rpg
• 1.4 bpg
• 0.6 apg

Kaman: Career Stats

• 11.9 ppg
• 74% ft%
• 8.3 rpg
• 1.4 bpg
• 1.4 apg

Let's add Brand and Chandler so we can settle all controversy

Brand: Career Stats

• 18.3 ppg
• 74% ft%
• 9.4 rpg
• 1.9 bpg
• 2.3 apg

Chandler: Career Stats

• 8.6 ppg
• 63% ft%
• 8.9 rpg
• 1.4 bpg
• 0.8 apg

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Speaking of selective memory...

The #1 argument against keeping Tyson Chandler was his $14.5M/year price tag that would have kept us from pursuing any other big name free agent over the next couple years - NOBODY argued that Haywood was a better player. Nobody.

Seriously, dude - your bit has gotten old.

I never said they did but keep yakking. What they argued was that he was a fine starting center...just like the other dude did till you went all Internet tough on him.

Troll,idiot, ban... If anyone should be banned it should be yourself for jumping all over a very innocuous post like that. The dude may or may not hang around to be insulted. But hey, who wants posters on a message board that do not agree with you.

[dude1394]

Watch the damn games.

[Murphy3]

Yeah...a little out of line underdog..

[markus1234]

Guys i think it is time to stop arguing about Jet, Wood, Tyson and Kidd. Let us concentrate on the new players.

[jthig32]

I gotta say, UD, I don't think the post you responded to from Jeff was THAT out of line.

Haywood and Kaman have both been solid-average NBA centers for their career. Kaman has been a bit overrated because he puts up inefficient offensive numbers. Haywood was a bit underrated because his calling card was defense which doesn't always translate to a box score.

Now, I expect Kaman to become more efficient playing on the court with Dirk, but let's not assume he's going to dominate. I'm happy we have him, but is he a HUGE upgrade over Haywood? No, I don't think so.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm happy we have him, but is he a HUGE upgrade over Haywood? No, I don't think so.

Come on,

Kaman is so underrated here, it is not even funny anymore.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Guys i think it is time to stop arguing about Jet, Wood, Tyson and Kidd. Let us concentrate on the new players.

I don't much mind discussion about Wood, Kidd, and Jet, since they all just left the team, but I couldn't agree more about Tyson.

[Underdog]

I'm agreeing with marcus1234 and disagreeing with Thiggy... Is this real life?

The guy said he'd take Haywood over Kaman - my response was definitely hyperbolous, but I certainly didn't expect this kind of backlash... Good thing I didn't go with the "slow death by AIDS" comment that I was originally going to post.

I'll keep the crow on ice until January...

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I gotta say, UD, I don't think the post you responded to from Jeff was THAT out of line.

Haywood and Kaman have both been solid-average NBA centers for their career. Kaman has been a bit overrated because he puts up inefficient offensive numbers. Haywood was a bit underrated because his calling card was defense which doesn't always translate to a box score.

Now, I expect Kaman to become more efficient playing on the court with Dirk, but let's not assume he's going to dominate. I'm happy we have him, but is he a HUGE upgrade over Haywood? No, I don't think so.

I actually think Brand is the better player. But, Brand won't be the starter because he'll also be Dirk's backup. I'd rather see Kaman in the 10-11 pt range per game with Brand around 13-15.. but that's just me. That's alot of points to come out of the Center and PF position.

Anyway the Mavs can go back and not sign Kaman... win the bid for Scola? Yeah, creates some defensive issues, but I can live with that.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Haywood did get the job done until he got injured. He looked like a completely different player when he came back.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Anyway the Mavs can go back and not sign Kaman... win the bid for Scola? Yeah, creates some defensive issues, but I can live with that.

Phoenix won the bid for Scola yesterday... Or were you being hypothetical?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I gotta say, UD, I don't think the post you responded to from Jeff was THAT out of line.

Haywood and Kaman have both been solid-average NBA centers for their career. Kaman has been a bit overrated because he puts up inefficient offensive numbers. Haywood was a bit underrated because his calling card was defense which doesn't always translate to a box score.

Now, I expect Kaman to become more efficient playing on the court with Dirk, but let's not assume he's going to dominate. I'm happy we have him, but is he a HUGE upgrade over Haywood? No, I don't think so.

OHH Jayziss!?! Here we go, the caretaker of all terrible Mav centers is here. Haywood was underrated because his calling card was defense. What you meant to say, or should say is Haywood could only contribute at a slightly above average level was on defense, nothing else. So by default Haywoods calling card was on defense.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

OHH Jayziss!?! Here we go, the caretaker of all terrible Mav centers is here. Haywood was underrated because his calling card was defense. What you meant to say, or should say is Haywood could only contribute at a slightly above average level was on defense, nothing else. So by default Haywoods calling card was on defense.

In his prime, Haywood was considered one of the better defensive centers in the NBA. Dwight Howard called him a candiate for DPOY once, saying no one defended him better.

Haywood slipped here, but even still, he had an acceptable year last year before getting hurt.

I'm not sure people understand JUST how inefficient of an offensive player Kaman has been recently. Again, I expect that to improve, but if it somehow doesn't, it will be a big problem.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I actually think Brand is the better player. But, Brand won't be the starter because he'll also be Dirk's backup. I'd rather see Kaman in the 10-11 pt range per game with Brand around 13-15.. but that's just me. That's alot of points to come out of the Center and PF position.

Anyway the Mavs can go back and not sign Kaman... win the bid for Scola? Yeah, creates some defensive issues, but I can live with that.

I would say Brand is easily the better player, and expect him to close a ton of games.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I would say Brand is easily the better player, and expect him to close a ton of games.

Nobody is arguing Brand vs. Kaman... It's the idea of Haywood being better than Kaman that makes my brain recoil in confusion.

If Brand beats out Kaman for the starting center position, then that's a good problem to have, much like Chandler beating out Haywood... But let's not pretend like Kaman is some kind of a bum - he played in an All-Star game as recently as 2010, and he's been plagued by injuries and stuck on one of the worst teams in the league since then.

I see no reason why he can't get his groove back playing under Carlisle and next to Dirk - much like another supposedly washed-up center that was on this roster a year ago...

[grndmstr_c]

Kaman probably should be an upgrade over Wood. But he's definitely a step down defensively, and in order for his greater offensive talents to carry the day and really make a difference on the court Chris will need to stay reasonably healthy and play more efficiently than he typically has. I think (hope) he's (still) capable, but I'm not punching the Mavs' playoff card on the basis of the Kaman-for-Wood switch just yet.

I agree with Murphy on Brand, though. To me, he's been the real prize of the off-season haul.

[purplefrog]

Top Ten Reasons (in no particular order) I Prefer Chris Kaman over Brendan Haywood:

1. He can catch the basketball.
2. He can pass the basketball.
3. He can take three steps towards the basket and make a layup.
4. He has at least two additional shots to go with a "dunk".
5. He can make more than 50% of his free throws.
6. Kaman is only three letters away from Caveman.
7. He's never played with the Washington Wizards.
8. No one will call him "Big Wood".
9. He played for the German National Team!
10. He's Dirk's good friend!

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'm agreeing with marcus1234 and disagreeing with Thiggy... Is this real life?

The guy said he'd take Haywood over Kaman - my response was definitely hyperbolous, but I certainly didn't expect this kind of backlash... Good thing I didn't go with the "slow death by AIDS" comment that I was originally going to post.

I'll keep the crow on ice until January...

I'm just not sure how you could admit that Haywood is a starting caliber center, and then go nuts when someone says they'd rather have Haywood than Kaman. Kaman is also considered a marginal starting center in this league. He's well below all star level.

I disagree with his opinion, just like you, but it's far, far from so ridiculous that I would call him a troll. Not that I really care that you did, just surprised by it.