Mavs not done in attempts to secure a center

[zanahale]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...lede.76e1.html



Mavs not done in attempts to secure a center

With Shaq out of the picture, team sets sights on Dampier, Ilgauskas

11:01 PM CDT on Sunday, July 11, 2004

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

The Mavericks know they have a certain amount of rebuilding to do in the wake of Steve Nash's departure to Phoenix and finishing as an also-ran in the Shaquille O'Neal derby.

But they have no intention of bottoming out while going through transition, which is why they are looking to make use of an old NBA tradition: preying on the misfortune of others.

The Golden State Warriors had designs on O'Neal, too, using Erick Dampier as sign-and-trade bait. Like the Mavericks, Golden State failed. In Cleveland, the Cavaliers were jilted by Carlos Boozer, which left them in a lurch. So the Mavericks will turn their attention to the Warriors and Cavs in their attempts to angle for a center.
File 2003
Among the top priorities this week is making deals with Avery Johnson (shown) and Marquis Daniels official.

Golden State appears willing to sign and trade Dampier. The Cavaliers are listening to offers for Zydrunas Ilgauskas. The Mavericks will use Antoine Walker as the main offering for either.

"We're not done probing," president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said Sunday. "I'd say what's happened may increase our chances with some of the other free agents out there [via sign-and-trades]. I wouldn't say there's a flurry of activity right now. But we're talking to a lot of teams."

The Mavericks and everybody else in the league is pointing toward Wednesday, when free agents can officially be signed. Many already have committed, including guards Marquis Daniels and Avery Johnson to the Mavericks.

The first order of business on Wednesday will be to make those two deals official.

Between now and then, the Mavericks are immersed in the first half of their summer-league action. There may be five players off the summer team that make the roster in November, and that's not such a bad thing.

"It's not like we're stuck without anything in the cupboard," Nelson said.

The Mavericks are in Long Beach, Calif., for the Summer Pro League. They travel on Thursday to Salt Lake City for six games at the Rocky Mountain Revue.

Young foundations for the future such as Josh Howard and Devin Harris are on the team. But the Mavericks know those players are capable. There are other goals that the Mavericks have, said assistant coach Charlie Parker, who will run the summer team.

"The main priority is to help develop guys," Parker said. "Let's face it: with the number of contracts we have now, it's not likely these guys will make it with us, unless they're already under contract. It's a learning experience for them."

When Daniels signs his contract, he is expected to join the team for the Utah league. Howard is playing in the summer league because it is in his contract that he would do so for his first two seasons.

"It helps the learning curve," Howard said. "This is going to help me a lot. Not so much physically, but just mentally learning the game better."

The Mavericks hope 7-5 rookie Pavel Podkolzin will rejoin the team today after missing several practices with a sore right knee.

Briefly: There are a handful of point guards who might fall into the category of second-tier free agents who could be called on to play for the minimum salary. Among those are Charlie Ward, Jacque Vaughn, Brevin Knight, Kenny Anderson, Mike James , Chris Childs, Rick Brunson, Lindsey Hunter, Rod Strickland, Anthony Johnson, J.R. Bremer and Chris Whitney. None were front-line players last season.

[EricaLubarsky]

And the lord said, take unto you my son for he is my son and I have named him Daniel. Let his speed make him appear to multiply and let you call him Daniels. The judgement day is coming, poor souls, and you will see it come on the shoulders of my four horsemen. Daniels, Howard, Harris and M'Benga.

[Male30Dan]

I think Murph is rubbing off on you Erica! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[madape]

If we wind up with Dampier for max money, count me out. My interest in the Mavs will reach pre-Jason Kidd lows.

[sike]

if they didn't max nash they won't max Dampier....Cuban seems to be a little wiser with the money as of late.

[bcrav4]

The market is slowly getting worse for Dampier. I doubt he'll get 10million a year, but hey, we've seen everybody overpayed this off-season. I would be happy to get him for a deal starting at 8million.

[ddh33]

In addition to Z and Damp, NY papers are still hyping Kurt Thomas to Dallas (aren't they always?).

If I had to bet, I would say that Z is more likely to be a Mav than Dampier. Something tells me that neither will though.

[Bookit]

Young foundations for the future such as Josh Howard and Devin Harris are on the team. But the Mavericks know those players are capable

Anybody else sick of Norm wanting to trade Josh Howard away at the drop of a hat? Every day Norm proposes a trade for a big man and every day, like clockwork, he wants to include Josh in the trade. I would like to reach through the radio and slap Norm around a little. He acts like Josh is just a spare part. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

[jayC]

But on this team he is a luxury.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: jayC
But on this team he is a luxury.

How is the fufure of this team a luxury?

[smallballer]

I think he gets thrown into all these trades because he is one of the few players on this team that makes less than he is probably worth. Most of the players are getting paid more than they are worth to other teams. The mavs have him locked up for a couple more years at a low salary and he showed a lot of potential last year. In trying to unload expensive players you have to throw in something of value.

[smallballer]

[EricaLubarsky]

As far as Im concerned Howard is untouchable BECAUSE of his contract. He only makes $823,640 this year, and he will make $873,880 next year. Now that Boozer is a schlong, Howard has about the best value of any player on the market. It also means that he doesnt make up legitimate value in a trade. Unless he is traded with an overpaid player like Walker, his value is about that of Antoine Rigadeau when looking at the CBA.

[Dirkenstien]

Anyone who wishes to trade Jho at the drop of a hat or does not recognize the significance he has to our franchise and it's future is not aware of what the Mavericks are building. I truly hope we do not involve Jho in any trades for a center. He has tons of potential, is a shutdown defender, is crazy athletic, is young, and will be a wonderful player in this league.

[Bookit]

Originally posted by: Dirkenstien
Anyone who wishes to trade Jho at the drop of a hat or does not recognize the significance he has to our franchise and it's future is not aware of what the Mavericks are building. I truly hope we do not involve Jho in any trades for a center. He has tons of potential, is a shutdown defender, is crazy athletic, is young, and will be a wonderful player in this league.

My sentiments exactly. Norm acts like he is just a guy who can be replaced easily. Nellie needs to stick Howard on the best scorer on the opponent ever game.

[endtroducing]

howard's a good little player, but I think daniels is superior in pretty much every category...defense, passing, ball handling...he even blazed him in the NCAAs. after his contract's up, he's bait.

[EricaLubarsky]

I retract my comments.

[aexchange]

Originally posted by: Dirkenstien
Anyone who wishes to trade Jho at the drop of a hat or does not recognize the significance he has to our franchise and it's future is not aware of what the Mavericks are building. I truly hope we do not involve Jho in any trades for a center. He has tons of potential, is a shutdown defender, is crazy athletic, is young, and will be a wonderful player in this league.

jho is incredibly overrated.

yes, he's young. yes, he's athletic. but he gambles too much on defense, doesn't use particularly good technique. can't pass. AT ALL. doesn't have any shooting range. and is a black hole on offense. he's worse than just about any player i've seen on the mavs besides the old days of gary trent when it comes to ball movement. he needs to learn that just because he's open, it doesn't mean its a good shot.

on top of that, he seems to be taking shooting lessons from antoine walker.

[grndmstr_c]

aex, are we talking about the same JHo? The guy I'm thinking of looked to be developing a respectable midrange jumper last year, something that Antoine Walker couldn't teach anyone. Oh yeah, that and he's the equal of Shawn Marion on the glass.

[endtroducing]

Originally posted by: aexchange

jho is incredibly overrated.

yes, he's young. yes, he's athletic. but he gambles too much on defense, doesn't use particularly good technique. can't pass. AT ALL. doesn't have any shooting range. and is a black hole on offense. he's worse than just about any player i've seen on the mavs besides the old days of gary trent when it comes to ball movement. he needs to learn that just because he's open, it doesn't mean its a good shot.

on top of that, he seems to be taking shooting lessons from antoine walker.

I pretty much agree with all of that...the bottom line is that he's not a very versatile player, and he needs to accept that...he tries to do way too much while he's on the floor, and that leads to bad shots, bad passes, etc...if any player is the future of this team, it's marquis, because of his talent and versatility. in college, he played every position on the court...he played center in the game they played against st. joe's in the tournament, and he still scored over 20 points, and he's the all-time steals leader at auburn (how many steals did this team average last year, anyway?).

if marquis gets solid minutes at the point, then I believe he'll develop into a top flight 1 in the league. the only reason he wasn't one this past season was that he was required to do so much in college, thus resulting into not having one solid position (which is probably why he wasn't drafted). now, ask yourself, do you see howard being a STAR 3 or 2 in the NBA after his rookie year? he'll be a nice mid-level player, after having a few more years to develop...but marquis is ready now.

[aexchange]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
aex, are we talking about the same JHo? The guy I'm thinking of looked to be developing a respectable midrange jumper last year, something that Antoine Walker couldn't teach anyone. Oh yeah, that and he's the equal of Shawn Marion on the glass.

grndmaster, that depends on what your definition of respectable is [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
if its respectable according to walker's standards then it isn't saying much. but his jumper needs quite a bit of work. yes, he's great on the glass, but if you're giving up 3-4 possessions in a game b/c you jack up stupid shots, it doesnt matter if you're grabbing 7 boards a game. the net result is 3-4 boards. he needs to take his shots within the flow of the offense.

[sike]

Originally posted by: Dirkenstien
He has tons of potential, is a shutdown defender, is crazy athletic, is young, and will be a wonderful player in this league.

Am I the only one who thinks the "shutdown defender" reputation is more reputation than actuality? I agree that he has the tools to be a wonderful defender....but he aint no Bowen or Christie...at least not yet.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: sike

I am the only one who thinks the "shutdown defender" reputation is more reputation than actuality? I agree that he has the tools to be a wonderful defender....but he aint no Bowen or Christie...at least not yet.

I totally disagree with AEX's opinion on him, but I have to admit that Howard's defensive reputation his rookie year was pretty questionable. He may be a good defender, and its unfair to judge from his rookie year, but I doubt he will ever be a christie or a Bowen.

[madape]

JHo is a shutdown defender in the same way that Najera is a monster on the glass. Nice for Bob Ortegal to say, nice for homer fans to beleive. But it just ain't true.

[grndmstr_c]

aex, not saying there's not room for improvement in JHo's offensive game. He's got to learn to pass more, especially on the break, and I'd like to see him extend his range some, but he looked to be getting quite comfortable shooting the 15-18 footer from the wing late last year (much more comparable to Bradley than Walker).

Also, regarding his rebounding, you're selling short the difference it makes. A quick comparison using some of Fin's stats will perhaps illustrate the point. Let's assume you have two players. Player 1 shoots as often as Josh, shoots as well as Josh, and rebounds as well as Josh. Player 2 shoots as often as Josh, shoots as well as Finley, and rebounds like Finley. If each of these players played 34 minutes per game, Player 2 would outscore Player 1 by 1.1 points per game. However, Player 1 would grab 3.4 more rebounds per game than Player 2, thereby providing about an extra 3 posessions or more per game for his team. If we conservatively estimated that his team scored at a rate of 1 point per scoring attempt that would still translate to at least an extra 1.5-1.7 points per game, which more than compensates for Player 1's lesser scoring efficiency.

At any rate, I know it's considerably more complicated than that, but I think it's important people don't undestimate how good a rebounder Josh is and the magnitude of difference that can make, even in light of the fact that his offensive efficiency leaves something to be desired.

[jayC]

How Stackhouse, Finley and Daniels to name a few. Two guards and threes grow on trees centers don't. The two hardest postions to fill point guard and Center. I'd rather win now and perhaps win big, then wait for the next big prospect.

Imagine trade Laetner for GP , then turn around and trade Howard and Waker for BigZ

GP
Stackhouse
Finley
Dirk
Big Z

Not bad at all.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I'm hearing from the news that Big Z is most likly going to New York.

[grndmstr_c]

I'm hearing from the news that Big Z is most likly going to New York.

Don't believe what you hear. Clevland hasn't given up on Boozer yet as they've just offered him a 5 million dollor one year contract to try to get him to resign with them. They won't do anything with Z until they know where Boozer's going. And even if they do something with Z, the proposed deal that's been floated (K. Thomas and filler) would not be a good trade for Clevland.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: madape
JHo is a shutdown defender in the same way that Najera is a monster on the glass. Nice for Bob Ortegal to say, nice for homer fans to beleive. But it just ain't true.

You're exactly right, Madape. JHo does have the ability to be a damn good defender, but he's simply not anywhere close to that level at this point in his career.

[steponhens]

I think Howard will develop into a very good defender. I think most of the players will improve their defense this year because Nash is gone, and their will not always be a man wide open. Last year it was good if he gambled because the defense was sure to collapse before the shot clock expired, giving the team a wide open shot. Now he will have to be more patient and have faith the rest of the team will do their part.

[Bookit]

Howard is the best perimeter defender on the Mavs roster. He is young and will learn to curb his recklessness. He isn't dominant but is a step in the right direction and shouldn't be tossed into a trade as an afterthought IMO. I can only hope that the Mavs people are smarter than Norm. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[NBAGnome]

Josh's game is going to develop. Yes, he was not a good offensive player this year. He didn't shoot a good percentage, but hes a rookie. Thats hardly uncommon, both LeBron and Melo shot a lower %. Marquis was special in that regard that he was able to be extremely efficient, even as a rookie.

As far as defense goes i'm not sure how effective he was. It was hard to tell, to me, it always seemed like he was able to contest his mans shot. But once again, hes just a rookie. Hes going to learn more whats effective. He has all the tools, his size is not great for a 3, but its compensated by his long wingspan, hes very very quick, he moves through picks very very well, he was the only guy Peja couldn't shake with a few picks in the playoffs. And once again, that wing span does incredible things for him. Hes going to be a shut down defender.

We need to keep both Marquis and Josh. Personally, i'd like to see down the line Marquis at the 1 and Josh at the 2, but i don't know if it'll ever happen. Obviously, Marquis is going to see time at the 1. But i don't know if he'll be a full time point guard at any point in his career. As far as Josh at the 2, with his size and length i could easily see him as the best defensive 2 guard in the league. The only guys who i can think of that'd match up with him reasonably well physically would be Tmac and L James.

[mavsman55]

I view J-Ho as a player who has tons upon tons of hidden potential. With a little offensive inspiration, we could be looking at a future all-star. And as we all know, it's easier to learn how to score than how to defend. And he already seems to be on the right path defensively. I see him turning into a Richard Jefferson type player in the near future, as long as he works on his jumper a little bit. As did R-Jeff.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: Bookit
Howard is the best perimeter defender on the Mavs roster.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Josh is no untouchable. Like someone said above he is a luxury as of right now. If you can get a Big Man for him you do it immediately. I like him far more than Daniels because with Josh I see him molding into a Kirilenko or a Marion type player. I'm still not sold on what Daniels will do for us but I sure will love to see it. I hope Josh and Daniels retire as Mavs and I definately don't want to see them traded for other shooting guards or fowards but if a Big Man is available I ship either one of them without hesitating.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: aexchange

jho is incredibly overrated.

yes, he's young. yes, he's athletic. but he gambles too much on defense, doesn't use particularly good technique. can't pass. AT ALL. doesn't have any shooting range. and is a black hole on offense. he's worse than just about any player i've seen on the mavs besides the old days of gary trent when it comes to ball movement. he needs to learn that just because he's open, it doesn't mean its a good shot.

on top of that, he seems to be taking shooting lessons from antoine walker.

You speak as if Josh has no room to improve. That guy is still learning the game should atleast be given another year or so before we say he's done developing.