Lord Jesus...We may be doomed.

[dude1394]

In a TV interview last month, Vice President Joe Biden said the following:

Every economist, as I've said, from conservative to liberal, acknowledges that direct government spending on a direct program now is the best way to infuse economic growth and create jobs.

[dude1394]

Now I'm sure of it.

PELOSI SAYS BIRTH CONTROL WILL HELP ECONOMY
Sun Jan 25 2009 22:13:43 ET

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi boldly defended a move to add birth control funding to the new economic "stimulus" package, claiming "contraception will reduce costs to the states and to the federal government."

Pelosi, the mother of 5 children and 6 grandchildren, who once said, "Nothing in my life will ever, ever compare to being a mom," seemed to imply babies are somehow a burden on the treasury.

The revelation came during an exchange Sunday morning on ABC's THIS WEEK.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Hundreds of millions of dollars to expand family planning services. How is that stimulus?

PELOSI: Well, the family planning services reduce cost. They reduce cost. The states are in terrible fiscal budget crises now and part of what we do for children's health, education and some of those elements are to help the states meet their financial needs. One of those - one of the initiatives you mentioned, the contraception, will reduce costs to the states and to the federal government.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So no apologies for that?

PELOSI: No apologies. No. we have to deal with the consequences of the downturn in our economy.

[fluid.forty.one]

check out how many threads you and 92bDad have started on the front page of this sub-forum.

also, consider how lame it is that you're even being compared with 92bDad.

[Flacolaco]

Well why doesn't she just issue a press release that says "Excuse me, you poor people, most of you voted for my party, so I thought you could stop having babies because we don't want to deal with the costs. Thanks bunches. XOXO -NP"

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

check out how many threads you and 92bDad have started on the front page of this sub-forum.

also, consider how lame it is that you're even being compared with 92bDad.

Consider how little I give a crap about your opinion.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Well why doesn't she just issue a press release that says "Excuse me, you poor people, most of you voted for my party, so I thought you could stop having babies because we don't want to deal with the costs. Thanks bunches. XOXO -NP"

by "you could stop having babies," you mean, "we could pay you to kill your babies before we have to pay for their birth," right?

[alexamenos]

Speaking of killing babies....

I saw where O'bama is going to reinstitute this policy where we pay to kill babies overseas...not only that, but he's declared that this is one of the ways he's putting an end to the politics of the past blah, blah, blah, uniting us all and all that.

funny, but taking my money to kill babies overseas doesn't make me feel more united.

[u2sarajevo]

My blood is boiling. I'll have to get used to it. Infants no longer have rights unless they are wanted. It's been that way for years, but the unborn seemed to always have a voice somewhere in the Government hierarchy. It's certainly gone now though.

But hey, at least the terrorists are getting rights now, huh?

[dalmations202]

What a thought............

Kill American babies, but save the terrorists...........

When did this country get so screwed up in it's thinking and personal justification?

[Underdog]

Wait - where does anyone say anything about killing babies???

All I see is talk of contraceptives, whereas this thread leads one to believe that Obama is going to play King Herod by executing every last first-born child...

Link?

[Flacolaco]

I too would enjoy a link. Or rather...I wouldn't enjoy it, it would probably piss me off, but we still need one.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Wait - where does anyone say anything about killing babies???

All I see is talk of contraceptives, whereas this thread leads one to believe that Obama is going to play King Herod by executing every last first-born child...

Link?

Nancy Pelosi's breath kills babies....

...and puppies.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Nancy Pelosi's breath kills babies....

...and puppies.

Don't forget that her face kills hard-ons too...

(ohhhh - THAT'S the "contraceptive" they were referring to!)



But seriously - this conversation is skirting the topic of abortion when that word was never once uttered by Pelosi...

[u2sarajevo]

I made my post after reading this article, I will quote the part that enraged me. I am sure there are articles more on point, but this is the one I was reacting to.

Mr Obama has pledged to end the culture wars on social issues that have riven American politics for a generation and did not allow television cameras to film him signing the executive order reversing the Bush abortion funding ban on aid agencies abroad, in order not to provoke pro-life groups.

When he finally did sign the order he issued a statement in a bid to placate abortion critics by promising to "reach out to those on all sides of this issue to achieve the goal of reducing unintended pregnancies." He added: "It is time that we end the politicisation of this issue."

He's not ignorant enough to believe that you can de-politicize the subject of baby murder is he?

[Robillion]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Consider how little I give a crap about your opinion.

This is why this forum will always be nothing but a big rantfest. There will never be constructive conversation with the people in this forum. They are too blinded by partisanship and their own ideology. The thought that we will never be more than the Conservative States of American and the Liberal States of America is sad. Very sad.

[Ninkobei]

by spending money on birth control that frees up state's money for other things. each state has to spend X ammount on contraceptives each year, required by law. basically it gives states free money to do with what they please.

[u2sarajevo]

and yes, this had nothing to do with Nancy Pelosi. It has to do with our President. But I didn't feel like making a new thread and the title of this thread seemed to be appropriate.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

by spending money on birth control that frees up state's money for other things. each state has to spend X ammount on contraceptives each year, required by law. basically it gives states free money to do with what they please.

Ahhh, now we get to the real heart of this issue...

It's not about dead babies - it's about dead presidents...

(um, the ones on our currency...)

[u2sarajevo]

Originally Posted by Robillion

This is why this forum will always be nothing but a big rantfest. There will never be constructive conversation with the people in this forum. They are too blinded by partisanship and their own ideology. The thought that we will never be more than the Conservative States of American and the Liberal States of America is sad. Very sad.

Funny. I don't recall you being bi-partisan when Bush was president. Or any of the liberal posters. It's funny what happens when the power gets shifted, isn't it?

I at least gave him the benefit of the doubt. That almost lasted a week.

[Flacolaco]

"...to achieve the goal of reducing unintended pregnancies..."

That kills me. Don't have sex if you don't intend to get pregnant, or are unwilling to accept that as a possible outcome of said sex.

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

by spending money on birth control that frees up state's money for other things. each state has to spend X ammount on contraceptives each year, required by law. basically it gives states free money to do with what they please.

Well that's a shame that any government agency at any level is required to spend money on contraceptives. People should be taking personal responsibility for their own penises and vaginas. No matter what Josh Howard may say, everyone "CAN control what the penis do".

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

by spending money on birth control that frees up state's money for other things. each state has to spend X ammount on contraceptives each year, required by law. basically it gives states free money to do with what they please.

So instead of figuring out where the money needs to go to stimulate the economy, we're paying for condoms so that the states have more free money with no strings attached.

My wallet feels fatter already.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

That kills me. Don't have sex if you don't intend to get pregnant, or are unwilling to accept that as a possible outcome of said sex.

Well that's a shame that any government agency at any level is required to spend money on contraceptives. People should be taking personal responsibility for their own penises and vaginas. No matter what Josh Howard may say, everyone "CAN control what the penis do".

I agree with this 100%, but the only reason government exists in the first place is because most people don't want to be held accountable for their own actions...


(I could extend this notion to every aspect of life beyond birth control, but why hijack the perfectly useless rant this thread has become?)

[92bDad]

The Killing of innocent lives will never be de-politicized.

Abortion as a form of Birth Control is flat out MURDER.

That is how many feel on the issue of pro-life, and hey for what it's worth, that is our CHOICE!!!

Where is the voice of the innocent child?
Heck, for many, where is the voice of the Father?

If the desire to save the lives of Children is fanatical, then call me a fanatic.
If the desire to put criminals away, such as terrorists is fanatical, then call me a fanatic.

[DirkFTW]

I figured out a way to solve funding abortions. Have the women/clinics sell their unborn children to all those science companies researching stem cells. And eventually if/when the science bears out, the funding continues indefinitely because we can then harvest the unborn's body for the requisite tissue. And if we really work at it, we might be able to create some jobs out of this for very fertile women.

If we're going to treat the unborn as a thing rather than a person, might as well close the loop and make a boatload of money selling health products to those of us who are important enough to have been born.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Robillion

This is why this forum will always be nothing but a big rantfest. There will never be constructive conversation with the people in this forum. They are too blinded by partisanship and their own ideology. The thought that we will never be more than the Conservative States of American and the Liberal States of America is sad. Very sad.

This wish for political "unity", for a world where we all sit around a campfire and sing songs while we rationally and sensibly work out our differences of opinion before coming to a mutually agreeable and most importantly cooperative solution is a silly LSD induced pipedream -- it's a wish for something which has never been and will never be.

Politics, to turn a phrase, is war by other means. The essential question of politics is, to borrow another phrase, "who, whom?" ... that is, who is screwing whom? I don't know if my grammar is right, but at the end of the day political issues boil down to questions of how best to divide the spoils of war. The whole shooting-match is inherently divisive -- you simply can't unite people on two sides (actually three sides) of an inherently divisive divide...

...so....as long as Obama and the Uniters want to point a gun at my head and take my money so they can kill babies, we're never going to just sit down and just be hunky dorey. OK?

[Underdog]

So, Obama is going to fund state-sponsored abortion???

LINK????????



(because that's sure as sh!t what you people are talking about right now...)

[alexamenos]

u2 quoted an article above, and I'm recalling something I read in a paper newspaper over the weekend - O'bama is re-doing the thing where we give money to groups over-seas that kill babies as part of their "services".

[u2sarajevo]

Originally Posted by Underdog

So, Obama is going to fund state-sponsored abortion???

LINK????????



(because that's sure as sh!t what you people are talking about right now...)

So if my money goes to pay for a European abortion clinics operating costs that is state-sponsored abortion?

Strange.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

So if my money goes to pay for a European abortion clinics operating costs that is state-sponsored abortion?

Strange.

State, as defined by Webster - you're talking about definition #8, I'm talking about definition #5... Any governing body is a State - I probably should have capitalized that word for clarity (my bad...)



Also (and this doesn't necessarily apply to you) - why do people get up in arms about the government spending their money on abortion, but nobody so much as bats an eyelash when they find out that the products they buy from Wal-Mart are produced by child slave labor overseas?

Not that I'm trying to trivialize the topic of abortion - I just don't understand how folks can get so gung-ho about one issue involving children while being completely aloof towards a similar issue (and I'm not even bringing dead Iraqi babies into this picture...)

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Also (and this doesn't necessarily apply to you) - why do people get up in arms about the government spending their money on abortion, but nobody so much as bats an eyelash when they find out that the products they buy from Wal-Mart are produced by child slave labor overseas?

Not that I'm trying to trivialize the topic of abortion - I just don't understand how folks can get so gung-ho about one issue involving children while being completely aloof towards a similar issue (and I'm not even bringing dead Iraqi babies into this picture...)

a) I'm all for child slave labor as long as they're asian children and making sneakers;
b) I was equally pissed that the republicans were taking my money and invading foreign countries....

anyhoo....I think it's fair to say that many things the government chooses to do with my money against my will pisses me off, and it's not unreasonable that some piss me off more than others.

[u2sarajevo]

Underdog - It's all deplorable.... but to answer your question... probably because

killing > slave labor

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

a) I'm all for child slave labor as long as they're asian children and making sneakers;
b) I was equally pissed that the republicans were taking my money and invading foreign countries....

anyhoo....I think it's fair to say that many things the government chooses to do with my money against my will pisses me off, and it's not unreasonable that some piss me off more than others.

Sometimes I wish I could give birth to your babies...

(but then we'd be making a strong case in favor of abortion!)

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Underdog - It's all deplorable.... but to answer your question... probably because

killing > slave labor

So what about the dead Iraqi babies then?

Where are the pro-life protests against the war?

[Mavdog]

the executive order signed by obama only allows for funding to be given to groups that provide counseling services. the bush order, which was originally issued by reagan ("the mexico city policy"), prohibited any funding given to any group who mentioned the concept of "terminating pregnancy" as an option to a woman.

the $ are not given for an abortion procedure.

under the obama executive order a counselor can say the word "abortion" or "terminate the pregancy" and not be faced with their assisatnce from the us govenment stopped.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Underdog

So what about the dead Iraqi babies then?

Where are the pro-life protests against the war?

Regarding the Dead Iraqi Babies...the USA responded and took Sadam out of power, who was then tried and put to death.

The USA continues to fight the terrorists in Iraq and when the mission is fully complete we will see more babies saved as a result of USA Actions!!!

Pro-Life activists have a good number who support the current liberation of Iraq and recognize the long term implecations of freedom in Iraq. We recognize that lives are being saved and as a result of the USA taking action on a murderous regime, we will save the lives of so many innocent victims.

Let's hope the current administration does not make the mistake of running before the mission is complete. We have pulled out of Iraq once in the early 90's...if we do it again, now...we run the risk of being hated by Iraqi's for generations, if not Centuries to come...while facilitating a breeding ground for terrorists. We must stay, just as we did in Europe...allowing and encouraging democracy to take shape.

Giving birth to freedom, let's not abort freedom like we have so many children.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

under the obama executive order a counselor can say the word "abortion" or "terminate the pregancy" and not be faced with their assisatnce from the us govenment stopped.

Reason enough to be pissed -- I don't want my money taken from me and given to someone who might suggest that a mother should kill her baby.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Regarding the Dead Iraqi Babies...the USA responded and took Sadam out of power, who was then tried and put to death.

The USA continues to fight the terrorists in Iraq and when the mission is fully complete we will see more babies saved as a result of USA Actions!!!

Pro-Life activists have a good number who support the current liberation of Iraq and recognize the long term implecations of freedom in Iraq. We recognize that lives are being saved and as a result of the USA taking action on a murderous regime, we will save the lives of so many innocent victims.

Let's hope the current administration does not make the mistake of running before the mission is complete. We have pulled out of Iraq once in the early 90's...if we do it again, now...we run the risk of being hated by Iraqi's for generations, if not Centuries to come...while facilitating a breeding ground for terrorists. We must stay, just as we did in Europe...allowing and encouraging democracy to take shape.

Giving birth to freedom, let's not abort freedom like we have so many children.

Oh, I get it - the more babies we kill now, the less babies will die later...

War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength

[Mavdog]

^^ certainly your right, it is after all our tax $ that is given to foreign groups.

the greatest contributor to the cycle of families mired in poverty is too many children, and if the size of the family is less there is a much better chance the kids will have of improving their economic status.

that's a positive for our country, both economically and politically.

[Flacolaco]

Well I don't need contraceptives or counseling from the federal government, so I'll take my fair share of the time and resources in check form.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

^^ certainly your right, it is after all our tax $ that is given to foreign groups.

the greatest contributor to the cycle of families mired in poverty is too many children, and if the size of the family is less there is a much better chance the kids will have of improving their economic status.

that's a positive for our country, both economically and politically.

It's actually probably too few marriages.