Approach to the offseason

[kg_veteran]

It seems to me from everything that I've heard and read and observed that the Mavericks are going to do the following this summer:

1. Re-sign Steve Nash.
2. Re-sign Marquis Daniels.
3. Try to trade Antoine Walker if he isn't taken in the expansion draft OR try to make a trade involving the trade exception if he is taken in the expansion draft.
4. Try to convince Ostertag to come here for the LLE or the remainder of the MLE if they don't obtain him (or enough other help at center) via trade (see No. 3).

Beyond that, I really don't see the Mavericks doing that much. I don't think Jamison or Finley are going anywhere, and I don't see any of the bench guys like Fortson or Najera departing unless it's part of a package involving Walker or the TE.

Let's say that the Mavs can't find a trade they like for Walker before the season starts. Are you happy going into the regular season next year with this roster?

Ostertag - Bradley - Fortson
Nowitzki - Walker - Najera
Finley - Jamison
Daniels - Howard
Nash - Delk

IR: Steffansson, Wahad

[dalmations202]

Let's say that the Mavs can't find a trade they like for Walker before the season starts. Are you happy going into the regular season next year with this roster?

Ostertag - Bradley - Fortson
Nowitzki - Walker - Najera
Finley - Jamison
Daniels - Howard
Nash - Delk

IR: Steffansson, Wahad

I would be a little confused. I think they will find a way to move Walker, even if it is to GS for NVE, but I could be wrong. I also expect Avery to be back as a player and/or coach, and I expect Jamison to start. If they can't move Walker till the trading deadline, I expect this to be closer to the lineup that will start out the season.

Ostertag - Bradley - Fortson
Nowitzki - Walker - Najera
Jamison - Howard
Finley - Daniels
Nash - Delk

IR: Stefansson (unless he show something), Wahad, AJohnson

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: dalmations202

I would be a little confused. I think they will find a way to move Walker, even if it is to GS for NVE, but I could be wrong. I also expect Avery to be back as a player and/or coach, and I expect Jamison to start. If they can't move Walker till the trading deadline, I expect this to be closer to the lineup that will start out the season.

Ostertag - Bradley - Fortson
Nowitzki - Walker - Najera
Jamison - Howard
Finley - Daniels
Nash - Delk

IR: Stefansson (unless he show something), Wahad, AJohnson

That's still the same roster. You'd be confused by it? Confused that they couldn't trade Walker, or...?

If they do acquire Avery, he'll be on the active roster.

If they traded Walker for NVE straight up, would that really be a good trade?

[dalmations202]

That's still the same roster. You'd be confused by it? Confused that they couldn't trade Walker, or...?

Confused as to why they didn't find a way to utilize Walker to get an athletic, defensive minded 5.

If they do acquire Avery, he'll be on the active roster.

I think he would spend some on the active, and some on IR, as usual - they always have Najera, Bradley, Fortson, Delk, to spend some time there.

If they traded Walker for NVE straight up, would that really be a good trade?

I think it might help the chemistry issues, and maybe the attitude, but I wouldn't call it a "good" trade.

[kg_veteran]

Confused as to why they didn't find a way to utilize Walker to get an athletic, defensive minded 5.

Who are all of these "athletic, defensive minded 5"s out there that teams are willing to give up?

[Poindexter Einstein]

"Who are all of these "athletic, defensive minded 5"s out there that teams are willing to give up? "

You know who they are. They are the ones that make the whole Nellie regime a failure, as they get offered to the Mavs incessantly and the Mavs say no every year ...lol

Great point, and one that people cant see in their demand for a perfect team..

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Who are all of these "athletic, defensive minded 5"s out there that teams are willing to give up?

Chandler, Camby (not going anywhere), Blount, Dampier (athletic?), Battie (?)

Harder to get:
Bosh, R or B Wallace, Dalembert,

Draft Pick;
Okafor, Howard, Ramos, Biedrins, & several others

Your list is better than mine anyway.......I just want it, I have no idea how they are going to get it done.

Would they do Battie, Diop, and their 2nd round pick for Walker?

Heck, I'd settle for Big Z - Walker straight up, and a Center rotation of Big Z, Ostertag, Bradley.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
"Who are all of these "athletic, defensive minded 5"s out there that teams are willing to give up? "

You know who they are. They are the ones that make the whole Nellie regime a failure, as they get offered to the Mavs incessantly and the Mavs say no every year ...lol

Great point, and one that people cant see in their demand for a perfect team..

Or, perhaps he has had the opportunity to land some that could help. Perhaps they just didn't fit into Nellie's offensive philosophies enough to come to Dallas and actually get PT.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
"Who are all of these "athletic, defensive minded 5"s out there that teams are willing to give up? "

You know who they are. They are the ones that make the whole Nellie regime a failure, as they get offered to the Mavs incessantly and the Mavs say no every year ...lol

Great point, and one that people cant see in their demand for a perfect team..

I think there are big men that can be acquired, but they either have warts (e.g. Tyson Chandler), are old and overpaid (e.g. Antonio Davis, Brian Grant), or cost a lot more than Antoine Walker. There's a reason, after all, that we were able to get Walker for Raef LaFrentz.

Ostertag fits into the category of big men that are both obtainable and that could help the team.

[kg_veteran]

Chandler

I >think< he's obtainable. Is Walker enough to get him? I don't know.

Camby (not going anywhere)

Agreed.

Blount

I'd be happy to have him, but he's going to command close to the MLE. We don't have that to offer.

Dampier (athletic?)

You're not getting him for Walker, IMO.

Battie (?)

I'd be happy to have him, too. But do the Cavs want Walker? I don't think so.

Harder to get:
Bosh, R or B Wallace, Dalembert

Rasheed Wallace isn't coming here. The most we can offer him is the MLE, and we won't even have the full MLE to offer with the Daniels signing.

Ben Wallace isn't "harder" to get. He's impossible to get unless you're offering up Dirk Nowitzki, for starters.

Dalembert isn't going anywhere. Iverson is more likely to be traded, IMO.

Draft Pick;
Okafor, Howard, Ramos, Biedrins, & several others

Okafor and Howard are PFs, and Biedrins probably is, too. I'd love to figure out a way to draft Ramos, but he's not going to contribute much for a couple of years.

Your list is better than mine anyway.......I just want it, I have no idea how they are going to get it done.

I'm with you. I know a number of people who think Walker will draw a great return. I'll believe it when I see it.

Would they do Battie, Diop, and their 2nd round pick for Walker?

I don't know, but I would. I really wish they'd do Diop and the No. 10 for Walker. But when you look at their roster, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Heck, I'd settle for Big Z - Walker straight up, and a Center rotation of Big Z, Ostertag, Bradley.

Who wouldn't? But why would they do that?

[grndmstr_c]

KG, I'd rather go into the season with the lineup you suggested than go into it after trading Walker for a pile of crap (eg., straight up for AD). The way I see it, Walker isn't what this team needs, but all things considered we probably saw him at his worst last year - no training camp, (partially self-inflicted) emotional upheavals, constantly changing role on the team, etc. With a full training camp, and a consistent role as the backup PF, I do think he could contribute as long as he could keep his head up playing 15-20 minutes per night.

The one personnel change I'd make from your scenario is that I'd like to just cut Delk and sign Avery in his place as a player/coach. Not that I think Avery would be much more effective on the court, but if we want to land him we're probably going to have to offer him a spot on the active roster. I'd also prefer to see AJ start at SF alongside Fin and Nash in the backcourt, with Quis coming off the bench.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
KG, I'd rather go into the season with the lineup you suggested than go into it after trading Walker for a pile of crap (eg., straight up for AD). The way I see it, Walker isn't what this team needs, but all things considered we probably saw him at his worst last year - no training camp, (partially self-inflicted) emotional upheavals, constantly changing role on the team, etc. With a full training camp, and a consistent role as the backup PF, I do think he could contribute as long as he could keep his head up playing 15-20 minutes per night.

The one personnel change I'd make from your scenario is that I'd like to just cut Delk and sign Avery in his place as a player/coach. Not that I think Avery would be much more effective on the court, but if we want to land him we're probably going to have to offer him a spot on the active roster. I'd also prefer to see AJ start at SF alongside Fin and Nash in the backcourt, with Quis coming off the bench.

Unfortunately, I don't believe we saw Walker at his worst. Trust me, if he were to play less in control like he did in his Boston days, 95% of Mavs fans would have quickly jumped ship.

The Walker that we saw for much of last year was, thankfully, much more in control than what I've seen from him in the past. That is scary to imagine just how out of control of a player he was in Boston.

[PepperTheMavsFan41]

How much do you want to Cyber Bet that the Mavs starting lineup on Halloween will be....

Nash
Quesy
Fin
Dirk
Walker

[grndmstr_c]

The fact that he was able to reign himself in last year and play reasonably under control is, in my mind, a strong indication that we could expect that sort of restraint from him in the future if he remains in Dallas next year. I was talking less about his level of restraint, however, and more about his overall comfort level in the system and with the other players, which could only be improved over last year.

[Murphy3]

Sure, it's possible I guess. However, I think there's more likely to be less comfort. Obviously, Dirk was fed up with quite a bit this season. I'm sure that Walker's pouting was at least part of why Dirk went off late in the season. It's also likely that Walker would be called on to hopefully play even less of a role next year than he did late in thist past season.

I just don't see more 'comfort' for Walker. He'd also have the trade deadline in the back of his mind for the first half of the season. After the trade deadline, he'd have the end of the season looming knowing that he's going to probably be playing somewhere else.

[kg_veteran]

grndmstr_c - I don't want to trade Walker for a pile of crap, either. I'd rather hold him until the trade deadline if we have to to get maximum value for him, whatever that is. I won't be happy about it, but I think it's essential for the Mavs to turn Walker into something useful at the C spot.

As for cutting Delk, I can't see Cuban cutting a guy with 2 years, 6.5 million left on his contract.

[bcrav4]

Didn't either Cuban or Nellie say that next year Nash and Daniels will be starting in the backcourt. With Dirk and Fin in the front court plus a Center of some sort. So why do people have Jamison in the starting lineup?? I'm guessing he'll be gone next season along with Walker so that they both can start.

Please draft Ramos or Pavel...

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: bcrav4
Didn't either Cuban or Nellie say that next year Nash and Daniels will be starting in the backcourt. With Dirk and Fin in the front court plus a Center of some sort.

Actually, the quote you're talking about was mentioned in an Eddie Sefko article and was attributed to "two sources close to the team". 6-1-04 Sefko article

I don't think Jamison will be traded, but it certainly wouldn't shock me if he was.

[ddh33]

The big fear that I have brought up many times has been that there won't be enough room for the players on this team. I mean, I think it can work. To an extent, it did this season. But it does look like someone is going to have to take a lesser role than they would like.

[jayC]

Walkers trade value could be high for a team that is void of a second or first option. He could still be a 20 point 9 rebound and five assist guy. Ostertag is only a slight upgrade at the center position if one at all. I'd like to see more all-around role players like daniels, and howard on the team. Keon Clark could be a good fit on this team and perhaps could be signed for 2 million or so. Avery for the minimum but he really isn't an upgrade over best. I'd like to see anothony johnson on this team.

[grndmstr_c]

So why do people have Jamison in the starting lineup?? I'm guessing he'll be gone next season along with Walker so that they both can start.

I don't expect him to be gone. In Mark's interview with Kellerman he basically put AJ and Fin in the same category of most likely being back next year. I'm sure there are plenty of teams that would love to have his talent, but his contract means that only a handful could afford him, and of those even fewer might realistically give Dallas back something that would be better than AJ. As for having him in the starting lineup, I personally feel that he is a considerably superior option at SF to Finley, who is a superior option at SG to Quis. I just think he deserves to start, and that starting him gives the team, as presently constituted, it's best chance to succeed, regardless of whether or not Nellie agrees with me.

[LRB]

Walker's is only of value to teams wishing to dump salary. No ifs ands or buts, on talent alone Walker is flat out not worth it or even close. Sure walker can put up numbers, but at a horribly inefficient rate which won't help most teams do anything other than get a higher draft pick the next year. I guess if a team wanted to increase their draft pick without "purposefully" throwing games then Walker might be the best solution to that problem. Walker is a good, but not great, rebounder. Other than that he's anything from nothing special to flat out horrible. I'd rather see Danny Fortson getting Walker's minutes anyday of the week. At least Danny is a great rebounder and he can make his FT's. That will always put him head and shoulders above Walker in my book.

If we don't trade Walker or have him taken in the expansion draft and if Fortson is still on the roster, then Walker should be no higher than the 3rd string PF and should only see PT for mop up or unless injuries force him to play. Danny Fortson is tons better for the Mavs than Walker will ever be.

[basketball jonessss]

Originally posted by: LRB
Walker's is only of value to teams wishing to dump salary. No ifs ands or buts, on talent alone Walker is flat out not worth it or even close. Sure walker can put up numbers, but at a horribly inefficient rate which won't help most teams do anything other than get a higher draft pick the next year. I guess if a team wanted to increase their draft pick without "purposefully" throwing games then Walker might be the best solution to that problem. Walker is a good, but not great, rebounder. Other than that he's anything from nothing special to flat out horrible. I'd rather see Danny Fortson getting Walker's minutes anyday of the week. At least Danny is a great rebounder and he can make his FT's. That will always put him head and shoulders above Walker in my book.

If we don't trade Walker or have him taken in the expansion draft and if Fortson is still on the roster, then Walker should be no higher than the 3rd string PF and should only see PT for mop up or unless injuries force him to play. Danny Fortson is tons better for the Mavs than Walker will ever be.

TOTALLY AGREE.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c

I don't expect him to be gone. In Mark's interview with Kellerman he basically put AJ and Fin in the same category of most likely being back next year. I'm sure there are plenty of teams that would love to have his talent, but his contract means that only a handful could afford him, and of those even fewer might realistically give Dallas back something that would be better than AJ. As for having him in the starting lineup, I personally feel that he is a considerably superior option at SF to Finley, who is a superior option at SG to Quis. I just think he deserves to start, and that starting him gives the team, as presently constituted, it's best chance to succeed, regardless of whether or not Nellie agrees with me.

If Walker is a team's first option, they aren't going to be a very good team whatsoever. The same can probably be said about him being a second option.

He's simply too inefficient to take enough shots to be considered a first or second option.

[MightyToine]

I still believe that there is a deal already in place between Orlando and Dallas involving Walker ready to happen should the Cats NOT take Walker....


I think we're all worrying about nothing..... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]



Walk will either be in Charlotte or Florida come next season. BOOK IT!!!!!

[madape]

MT - If the Mavs had a deal worked out with Orlando, then why in the hell would they leave Walker unprotected? Wouldn't they just protect him, then trade him to Orlando? Isn't that a better alternative than to lose Walker for nothing but a trade exception?

[LRB]

If Charlotte take Walker we can still do a deal with Orlando with the tade exemption. We could take Grant Hill and the #1 pick say for Shawn Bradley and Josh Howard allowing Orlando to save caproom this year. This would allow Orlando to save cap room and may be more preferable than taking on Walker just to save cap room next year.

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by: LRB
If Charlotte take Walker we can still do a deal with Orlando with the tade exemption. We could take Grant Hill and the #1 pick say for Shawn Bradley and Josh Howard allowing Orlando to save caproom this year. This would allow Orlando to save cap room and may be more preferable than taking on Walker just to save cap room next year.

Though Bradley is a veteran, and I suppose Howard is now too, I don't think that's the kind of veteran personnel they are thinking will please TMac enough to get him to stay.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Jeremiah

Though Bradley is a veteran, and I suppose Howard is now too, I don't think that's the kind of veteran personnel they are thinking will please TMac enough to get him to stay.

Jerimiah, I would agree with you there. In the case that I used as an example Orlando would be dumping cap space to pursue a veteran while getting some useful and cheap talent while doing so. But certainly Bradley and Howard by themselves wouldn't work.

We could also do a Fin or AJ with Howard trade for Hill and Orlando's #1. Then we could still use walker's trade exemption to do another trade. For example we coudl do Orlando's #1 pick + Walker trade exemption for a sign and trade for Dampier and GS 1st round pick.

[dalmations202]

IMO:
If Orlando thinks TMac will stay, then they will probably trade the #1 and Grant Hill to Dallas for (Jamison or Walker (TE)), and maybe two other players like Josh Howard, Tony Delk and if I were them, would get Dallas 2nd round pick as well.

If they decide that TMac is going to leave anyway, then I think they might trade him to Dallas with Hill, for Walker(TE)/Jamison/Howard. That at least makes sense to me.

I am not sure that Orlando will pull the trigger on any of these deals, but I think Dallas is probably the "team not in the lottery", and that they are just waiting to see what TMac is going to do, and what Charlotte is going to do before making their decision.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: MightyToine
Walk will either be in Charlotte or Florida come next season. BOOK IT!!!!!

Originally posted by: Mighty Toine
Mavs are STUCK with Walker until the Trading deadline.


BOOK IT.

Link

Originally posted by: Mighty Toine
That's exactly what I was thinking, too, Murph. I think it's a done deal that Walk is heading for Charlotte come next season. The only thing left is to make it official....

And I do agree that Walk may end up being dealt once more by the Cats to god-knows-what-team at the trading deadline no matter how well he plays or doesn't play.....

[/i]
Link

[kg_veteran]

He's in Charlotte, he's in Florida, he's stuck here.

Which is it?

[LRB]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
He's in Charlotte, he's in Florida, he's stuck here.

Which is it?

Isn't it obvious? He's going to Chicago. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[sike]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
He's in Charlotte, he's in Florida, he's stuck here.
Which is it?

thanks for putting that togeher kg...I thought i remembered another "book it" from MT in regards to Walker....
as long as he's not in dallas....I'm ok with where ever else he lands......Walker just takes too much away from Dirk's game to stay until the deadline...

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
He's in Charlotte, he's in Florida, he's stuck here.

Which is it?

Anywhere but DALLAS!


book THAT! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[FullBurst41]

I'd prefer to see AJ take the SF spot, Finley the starting SG, and Quis coming off the bench to give Finley good periods of rest. I'm not going to make any premature judgements, but it might be better not to rely on Finley for whole games on end, Quis could be the next best thing to 6th man AJ. In any case, I think kQuis is a good enough sport that he will not complain in that role (and he'll still see plenty of the court).

[basketball jonessss]

Originally posted by: FullBurst41
I'd prefer to see AJ take the SF spot, Finley the starting SG, and Quis coming off the bench to give Finley good periods of rest. I'm not going to make any premature judgements, but it might be better not to rely on Finley for whole games on end, Quis could be the next best thing to 6th man AJ. In any case, I think kQuis is a good enough sport that he will not complain in that role (and he'll still see plenty of the court).

I agree with that. Then start Bradley and this team is cookin.