Diop Traded to Charlotte

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm intrigued by all these claims that the Mavs are clearly not done. I mean that's common sense, but people have been adament that somethign else is up.

D-George for 1996 Michael Jordan. You heard it here first.

[grndmstr_c]

Nothing to get excited about, but it's a pretty logical move. Trade a 7 footer who wasn't producing for another 7 footer who's at least not been any worse, and a three point shooter with legit shooting guard size. This team desperately needs some of those long range shots to start dropping, and Carroll has definitely shown the ability to shoot with range in the past.

Man I'm bummed Gana turned out to be such a waste, though. I was strongly behind the Mavs signing him in the offseason because of the impact he'd had for the team in the past as a defender. I wasn't expecting him to be much of a contributor on offense, so the paltry point totals weren't that big a deal relative to my expectations, but his virtually complete inability to change the game defensively this season was a downer and a surprise. Oh well, perhaps Hollins' athleticism will help him find a role on the team.

[BGMaverick9]

Hollins definitely has some piss and vinegar in him. You look around on youtube and you'll see him trash talk AI and throwing it down with some fierceness. For some reason, Diop was afraid to throw it down at the rim, that definitely is not an issue with Hollins if he gets on the court.

[mac222b]

If by not done they mean Stack for Earl Watson are we supposed to be excited? I guess it would open the door for a Kidd trade.

[mac222b]

I'm starting to think the benefits of trading Kidd outweigh resigning him to a reasonable deal. We just have to be ready because some team is going to want to dump a borderline all-star type player or we get back a couple young guys.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I'm starting to think the benefits of trading Kidd outweigh resigning him to a reasonable deal. We just have to be ready because some team is going to want to dump a borderline all-star type player or we get back a couple young guys.

I'm starting to lean that way also BUT...having really bad point guard play is tough. Think about if jet was the full-time point now. He'd be pressed the entire game.

[twistaeffect2004]

The Mavs actually have some decent chips right now.

Jason Kidd: A veteran point guard who still has some life left in his legs, but most importantly he has a huge expiring contract.

JHo: Versatile small forward with a decent contract. He's been injury prone, and has been in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons as of late. Still on the right side of 30 and is a past all star, so while his value isn't as high as it should be for a player of his talent, it's still alright and should net something good in return.

Stackhouse: Another expiring contract

Bass: SF/PF/C tweener. Big body, nice mid range game. Plays bigger than he is which usually works against him. Young, really nice contract.

I think if we wanted we could get some impact players for the names I mentioned. Expiring contracts are pivotal with teams trying to get under the cap for 2010.

Again, it all comes down to what the Mavs want to do. Are they intending on remaining contenders for a playoff spot? Or do they want to do their own "spring cleaning" and try to position themselves the best they can for the 2010 FA race?

It should be very interesting.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

The Mavs actually have some decent chips right now.

Jason Kidd: A veteran point guard who still has some life left in his legs, but most importantly he has a huge expiring contract.

JHo: Versatile small forward with a decent contract. He's been injury prone, and has been in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons as of late. Still on the right side of 30 and is a past all star, so while his value isn't as high as it should be for a player of his talent, it's still alright and should net something good in return.

Stackhouse: Another expiring contract

Bass: SF/PF/C tweener. Big body, nice mid range game. Plays bigger than he is which usually works against him. Young, really nice contract.

The thing with the last two, I don't think you're going to be "wowed" with what you get in return. Bass' contract is way too small to bring anything good back, Bass is an additional piece with Stack or the other two. It appears Stack can get you Earl Watson...he's nice but someone out of Kidd, Jet or JJB needs to go in the process. That just means you need to make another deal.

I think Kidd is either going to be allowed to walk or maybe get a SnT deal done, or he'll be brought back on the cheap-side.

[monty55555]

Done deal.

The deal is done. Guard Matt Carroll and Ryan Hollins were acquired by the Mavericks late Friday afternoon for DeSagana Diop.

"We are excited to add two young talents in Matt and Ryan to our roster," said Donnie Nelson, the Mavericks president of basketball operations. "Over the course of his career, Matt Carroll has one of the best 3-point shooters in the league. Ryan is a versatile athletic center with a good up-side.

"We want to thank Sagana. He is hands down one of the classiest people I have ever known. His contributions both on and off the court will certainly be missed. The Mavericks' family wishes him nothing but the very best."

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archi...-maverick.html

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wir...l_and_hollins/

[seelenjaeger]

Don´t under-estimate the contract / value of Damp.

He´s a very moveable piece by now, too, WAY more interesting for teams than Diop.

[BGMaverick9]

I've been thinking about it over the past week or so. If we're pushing to trade either Josh or Kidd (I'm not on board with trading Kidd), I'm putting my targets on someone like Kaman first. You clearly have your ideas set on what you need: you need a low-post threat or a shooter. Low post guys (effective ones) are harder to find, so if you can get it...you go for it. Kidd would find Kaman and maybe bring more pick and roll offense with a big that actually ends in the low post.

[twistaeffect2004]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I've been thinking about it over the past week or so. If we're pushing to trade either Josh or Kidd (I'm not on board with trading Kidd), I'm putting my targets on someone like Kaman first. You clearly have your ideas set on what you need: you need a low-post threat or a shooter. Low post guys (effective ones) are harder to find, so if you can get it...you go for it. Kidd would find Kaman and maybe bring more pick and roll offense with a big that actually ends in the low post.

I'm wondering if there is anyway possible we can get David Lee from New York. It sounds like the Knicks have been shopping him a little bit. I'm a huge fan of his.

Names that I think could be had by this deadline who I think the Mavs will take a look at are:

David Lee
Corey Maggette
Jermaine Oneal
Shawn Marion
Chris Kaman
Marcus Camby
Stephen Jackson
Michael Redd
Mike Miller
Caron Butler??
Rashad McCants
Reymond Felton


I'mnot saying all those guys will be traded, but I do think all of them will be out there in terms of rumors and what not. I think the Mavs have the pieces to get some of these guys actually. Having huge expirings are big.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

Names that I think could be had by this deadline who I think the Mavs will take a look at are:

David Lee
Jermaine Oneal
Shawn Marion
Chris Kaman
Stephen Jackson
Michael Redd
Mike Miller
Reymond Felton

That would be my list...some of them are questionable, and some are probably unavailable.

I still really like Kaman off that list.

[BaylorTMW]

I like this trade. Diop was not working out here, and I think this is a maximum return for him. We get a young center to replace his 10 minutes a game or so, and another shooter on the wings.

I would not be surprised if one of our wings (in addition to Stack) is on their way out as well...

[EricaLubarsky]

Diop 5 years, 32.4million

Hollins is an expiring 900k
Carroll is 5 years, 20.8 million

we save some money but we take back Carroll who has only a slightly better contract. 5 years for a guy that is shooting 40.6%, 26.7% and 79%, though?!? Wow. People said they wanted a SG with size but Carroll may be more porous than Terry and he provides very little on the other side.

Hollins is a lifelong underperformer (at least in basketball-- he was good at the high jump.) who failed to make a splash in college and is thusfar failing in the NBA. After this year he may very well never see an NBA lockerroom.

We essentially save about 11 million and get no talent back. Since Diop wasn't playing/contributing its not a huge deal but it does make me wonder if we are transitioning into a rebuilding mode. I'm not adverse to it-- we either need to position ourselves to rebuild or we need to be aggressive about getting better.

Right now we are just sitting on a sub-par 9th seed team with a huge payroll.

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Right now we are just sitting on a sub-par 9th seed team with a huge payroll.

Yeah, this certainly isn't the trade that changes that...makes it a slightly less huge payroll over the next few years, but doesn't impact our mediocrity much.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by bobatundi

Yeah, this certainly isn't the trade that changes that...makes it a slightly less huge payroll over the next few years, but doesn't impact our mediocrity much.

Yeah, I think the 2 million or so we could be saving for 2010 might make a difference, but it's not going to do a lot...every little bit can help. If we keep making some moves here and there that lead towards 2010, then every deal added up can make a huge difference.

They're taking a shot with Carroll and Hollins, maybe he pans out as a nice bench option. Hollins is a very minimal risk and he can't be any worse than Diop, if so...it's at a much cheaper rate. Maybe Carroll can do something, and if he does, he becomes more of a steal as years go by, who knows.

I usually don't have the strongest faith in the FO (since the summer and etc), but I think they're going to make one big move before the deadline.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Diop 5 years, 32.4million

Hollins is an expiring 900k
Carroll is 5 years, 20.8 million

we save some money but we take back Carroll who has only a slightly better contract. 5 years for a guy that is shooting 40.6%, 26.7% and 79%, though?!? Wow. People said they wanted a SG with size but Carroll may be more porous than Terry and he provides very little on the other side.

Hollins is a lifelong underperformer (at least in basketball-- he was good at the high jump.) who failed to make a splash in college and is thusfar failing in the NBA. After this year he may very well never see an NBA lockerroom.

We essentially save about 11 million and get no talent back. Since Diop wasn't playing/contributing its not a huge deal but it does make me wonder if we are transitioning into a rebuilding mode. I'm not adverse to it-- we either need to position ourselves to rebuild or we need to be aggressive about getting better.

Right now we are just sitting on a sub-par 9th seed team with a huge payroll.

Diop has been a negative on the floor and Carroll's contract is structured in such a way that he will be easily tradeable as part of a bigger package towards the end of his contract.

Diop, on the other hand, would only have gotten more and more untradeable as his contract went on.

[seelenjaeger]

Just curious - question for our CBA guys:

Can you pay a player more in a buyout than his original deal? Let´s say we agree to buyout Carrol at some point, and pay him the rest of his guaranteed contract plus something (2 mill or such), if he agrees to void the contract (and not exercise his option), when will he be off the books cap-wise? in the year of his original expiration or when the player option expires?

On his contract: it gets better by the year, so it´s at least not the complete horrorshake thingy.

[MaVs 41 BaLler]

WHO?

Is he suppose to be a skinny Bass?

[kappasigma]

carroll will probably start a few games because Dallas will start ANY guard in hopes of finding a consistant player to play that roll. Carroll will probably start 4-5 games, then start coming off the bench for some minutes, then he will rack up a bunch of DNP-CD by the end of the season or perhaps some garbage time. hate to say this, but we're the new version of the the kings. the other guy will play about 3-6 minutes a game, probably about 14 games the rest of the season.

[dalmations202]

This trade doesn't thrill me at all.

Really it does nothing for the team, except change names on the back of a jersey or two.

Dallas is still mediocre.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

This trade doesn't thrill me at all.

Really it does nothing for the team, except change names on the back of a jersey or two.

Dallas is still mediocre.

It's about the salaries.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by jthig32

It's about the salaries.

As I have said before. I do not care about salaries. Mark can overpay or underpay -- as long as he puts a viable team that competes for the championship every year ---- I am happy.

This team right now will not contend. With this trade, (at this time), they still will not contend.

There needs to be a bigger splash coming.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

As I have said before. I do not care about salaries. Mark can overpay or underpay -- as long as he puts a viable team that competes for the championship every year ---- I am happy.

This team right now will not contend. With this trade, (at this time), they still will not contend.

There needs to be a bigger splash coming.

Glad to see you say they will not "CONTEND"

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

As I have said before. I do not care about salaries. Mark can overpay or underpay -- as long as he puts a viable team that competes for the championship every year ---- I am happy.

This team right now will not contend. With this trade, (at this time), they still will not contend.

There needs to be a bigger splash coming.

I get that, but the Mavs' salary commitments have a directo impact on their chance to compete long term.

This move, indirectly, helps the Masvs win in the long term, *if* they use the saved money properly.

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I get that, but the Mavs' salary commitments have a directo impact on their chance to compete long term.

This move, indirectly, helps the Masvs win in the long term, *if* they use the saved money properly.

That's an enormous IF

[Dirkadirkastan]

I miss Diop. You know, the one that left over two years ago?

[grndmstr_c]

A small-sample, probably somewhat contaminated statistical fact that nonetheless tells the story of how little Diop had been providing the Mavericks this year.

- With Gana on the court Dallas was giving up 100 points per 48 minutes. That's slightly more than the 99 points per 48 minutes the Mavs had been giving up with Dirk playing center, and the 99.4 points per 48 minutes they'd been giving up with Bass playing center. Those are flat-out unacceptable numbers for a defensive specialist.

The bottom line on this trade is that the Mavs gave up absolutely nothing of value, saved themselves a bit of money over the next few years, and if things work out, may have at least landed themselves a designated shooter off the bench and a 10 mpg backup center with some athleticism (something they've not had in a long time). If you're in any way upset with this trade, you're just looking for something to be pissed off about.

At the same time, if you're excited about it, you're delusional and should probably check to make sure you're not running a high fever.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

A small-sample, probably somewhat contaminated statistical fact that nonetheless tells the story of how little Diop had been providing the Mavericks this year.

- With Gana on the court Dallas was giving up 100 points per 48 minutes. That's slightly more than the 99 points per 48 minutes the Mavs had been giving up with Dirk playing center, and the 99.4 points per 48 minutes they'd been giving up with Bass playing center. Those are flat-out unacceptable numbers for a defensive specialist.

The bottom line on this trade is that the Mavs gave up absolutely nothing of value, saved themselves a bit of money over the next few years, and if things work out, may have at least landed themselves a designated shooter off the bench and a 10 mpg backup center with some athleticism (something they've not had in a long time). If you're in any way upset with this trade, you're just looking for something to be pissed off about.

At the same time, if you're excited about it, you're delusional and should probably check to make sure you're not running a high fever.

I agree for the most part. You can't argue with the realities of the trade (contract #s, on court-production, what was exchanged). But perceptions count, too. If Diop (and Stack) could've fetched us Felton/May/Mohammad, is Diop for Hollins/Carroll still a good deal?

Your product may have got you X dollars today, which is above what the market says, but if 1.5X was on the table last week and didn't go through for whatever reason, it's a little bittersweet to finish with the X.

Oh well.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Your product may have got you X dollars today, which is above what the market says, but if 1.5X was on the table last week and didn't go through for whatever reason, it's a little bittersweet to finish with the X.

Two things: 1) the thing that brought X dollars in today is not the same thing that was rumored to be on the verge of bringing in more than X last week, because Dallas still has Stack's contract to use in another trade, and 2) it's not necessarily the case that the Mavs are finished with the X; in fact, the impression one gets from the media members who are presumably most tuned in to what's going on in the Mavs front office is precisely the opposite, and I'd say the odds are pretty good that another, more impactful (whether for good or ill) trade is likely to follow.

Perhaps some people felt confident that Felton was going to become a solid starting point for the Mavs. If you fall in that camp, then your disappointment that Dallas' didn't (hasn't yet) acquired him is reasonable.

For my part, while it would have been my hope had that trade gone through that Felton would've lived up to that standard and made Kidd and that giant expiring contract of his expendable, I'm far from certain that would've been the case, so it's hard for me to get too down about not having him here. More importantly, though, if Stack's contract paired with the high-dollar lump that Diop turned out to be was in the neighborhood of enough to acquire Felton, then surely Stack's contract (which is only going to increase in trade value leading up to the offseason) paired with something else more palatable and attractive should be able to fetch the Mavs something better than Felton.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Two things: 1) the thing that brought X dollars in today is not the same thing that was rumored to be on the verge of bringing in more than X last week, because Dallas still has Stack's contract to use in another trade, and 2) it's not necessarily the case that the Mavs are finished with the X; in fact, the impression one gets from the media members who are presumably most tuned in to what's going on in the Mavs front office is precisely the opposite, and I'd say the odds are pretty good that another, more impactful (whether for good or ill) trade is likely to follow.

Perhaps some people felt confident that Felton was going to become a solid starting point for the Mavs. If you fall in that camp, then your disappointment that Dallas' didn't (hasn't yet) acquired him is reasonable.

For my part, while it would have been my hope had that trade gone through that Felton would've lived up to that standard and made Kidd and that giant expiring contract of his expendable, I'm far from certain that would've been the case, so it's hard for me to get too down about not having him here. More importantly, though, if Stack's contract paired with the high-dollar lump that Diop turned out to be was in the neighborhood of enough to acquire Felton, then surely Stack's contract (which is only going to increase in trade value leading up to the offseason) paired with something else more palatable and attractive should be able to fetch the Mavs something better than Felton.

"I can't quit you!"

Or...I can't rep you enough!

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I agree for the most part. You can't argue with the realities of the trade (contract #s, on court-production, what was exchanged). But perceptions count, too. If Diop (and Stack) could've fetched us Felton/May/Mohammad, is Diop for Hollins/Carroll still a good deal?

Your product may have got you X dollars today, which is above what the market says, but if 1.5X was on the table last week and didn't go through for whatever reason, it's a little bittersweet to finish with the X.

Oh well.

Huh?? If Diop and stack could have fetched us felton/may/mohammad then it would have.

[SeriousSummer]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

A small-sample, probably somewhat contaminated statistical fact that nonetheless tells the story of how little Diop had been providing the Mavericks this year.

- With Gana on the court Dallas was giving up 100 points per 48 minutes. That's slightly more than the 99 points per 48 minutes the Mavs had been giving up with Dirk playing center, and the 99.4 points per 48 minutes they'd been giving up with Bass playing center. Those are flat-out unacceptable numbers for a defensive specialist.

The bottom line on this trade is that the Mavs gave up absolutely nothing of value, saved themselves a bit of money over the next few years, and if things work out, may have at least landed themselves a designated shooter off the bench and a 10 mpg backup center with some athleticism (something they've not had in a long time). If you're in any way upset with this trade, you're just looking for something to be pissed off about.

At the same time, if you're excited about it, you're delusional and should probably check to make sure you're not running a high fever.

106 degrees. I should be dead.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

A small-sample, probably somewhat contaminated statistical fact that nonetheless tells the story of how little Diop had been providing the Mavericks this year.

- With Gana on the court Dallas was giving up 100 points per 48 minutes. That's slightly more than the 99 points per 48 minutes the Mavs had been giving up with Dirk playing center, and the 99.4 points per 48 minutes they'd been giving up with Bass playing center. Those are flat-out unacceptable numbers for a defensive specialist.

The bottom line on this trade is that the Mavs gave up absolutely nothing of value, saved themselves a bit of money over the next few years, and if things work out, may have at least landed themselves a designated shooter off the bench and a 10 mpg backup center with some athleticism (something they've not had in a long time). If you're in any way upset with this trade, you're just looking for something to be pissed off about.

At the same time, if you're excited about it, you're delusional and should probably check to make sure you're not running a high fever.

Pretty sad when a dirk at center gives up less than diop..Even WORSE is giving up more with Bass at center. Yuck....

Rick really needs to stop playing Bass in the fourth...it ain't working brotha'.

[alby]

Thumbs up on this move.

[Danny Boi]

Why the freak does it seem that nobody will trade with the mavericks unless the deal goes extremely in their favor. First giving up harris for kidd and i won't even get into just "throwing in" those two first round picks that it's starting to look more likely that they could have used......can u say lottery. I guess i shoulda known better than to think the mavericks could actually get felton :-(

[alby]

Originally Posted by Danny Boi

Why the freak does it seem that nobody will trade with the mavericks unless the deal goes extremely in their favor. First giving up harris for kidd and i won't even get into just "throwing in" those two first round picks that it's starting to look more likely that they could have used......can u say lottery. I guess i shoulda known better than to think the mavericks could actually get felton :-(

just have faith Danny Boi. just have faith.

[kg_veteran]

I really like this trade.

[Murphy3]

I like adding a shooter. It's amazing that team can be put together with so few people capable of hitting shots as is the case with this current Mavs group.