Suns get J-Rich. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Nowitness41 · 12-10-2008, 06:23 PM

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...diaw_and_bell/

ty · 12-10-2008, 06:24 PM

Kerr is F-ing up the Suns.

Dtownsfinest · 12-10-2008, 06:27 PM

I saw this on a site but didn't see it on ESPN. Is it legit? Kerr is just going backwards. He gets rid of Marion than gets rid of D'Antoni so we assume he's going for a more defensive approach and then gets rid of Raja Bell. What a mess defensively. Outside of Shaq and Barnes no one on the team can guard.

Nowitness41 · 12-10-2008, 06:28 PM

Yeah it was just on SportsCenter also.

BPo001 · 12-10-2008, 06:39 PM

damn, wish the mavs could have landed J-Rich

Dim499 · 12-10-2008, 06:43 PM

There was no available player in the NBA more perfectly suited for the Mavs. And now he's a Sun... Makes me sad to know he was on the block and Dallas couldn't find a way to get him.

Windmill360 · 12-10-2008, 06:59 PM

.

rabbitproof · 12-10-2008, 06:59 PM

That's nice for PHX.

Diaw was a bad signing and Barnes does a lot of what Bell does so while they lose some depth, they'll be all right. JRich is going to do well on the break with Nash and on the perimeter with Amare/Shaq inside.

On talent, Phoenix comes out ahead IMO. Not sure what the dollar impact is.

Tokey41 · 12-10-2008, 07:03 PM

I wonder how Amare's going to react with another scorer taking attention away from him. If he doesn't feel like 'the man' now then he's not going to when Richardson is chucking a couple ill-advised shots every night. He'll benefit heavily from Nash giving him better looks than he's used to, and after playing as the man in Charlotte being the 3rd/4th option will be a welcome change. Good move for the Suns.

Kidd Karma · 12-10-2008, 07:04 PM

With Barnes and Bell at the 3 they were not getting very many points from the perimeter. JRich helps that out a lot, opens up the paint for the 2 monsters.

Windmill360 · 12-10-2008, 07:05 PM

now they reaaaaallly have no defense.

grndmstr_c · 12-10-2008, 07:16 PM

Bell's a fine three-point shooter, at least as good behind the arc as Richardson, so I'm not sure how this trade really opens up the paint for the Suns.

That said, Richardson's probably the most talented player in the deal, so I think you have to say this was a win for the Suns.

Interestingly enough, though, if you scan through the +/- on 82games (including player pairs data), it sure doesn't look like Raja and Diaw have been the problem on that team. And man is their frontcourt thin.

LonghornDub · 12-10-2008, 07:21 PM

Suns offense just got better. Suns' perimeter defense just went from pretty bad to, well, really bad.

alby · 12-10-2008, 07:30 PM

Nash
Richardson
Barnes
Amare
Shaq

dammit.

Bell/Diaw???? That's it??? They didn't even have to touch Nash or Shaq or Amare or Leandro or their young guys like Lopez or Dragic. Their 5th and 6th best players for Charlotte's best player and a 2nd rounder. That's like trading Bass and Barea.

alby · 12-10-2008, 07:32 PM

at least they pretty much lost tonight's game against the Lakers without Shaq/Diaw/Raja

there will be a big increase in Boris's fantasy numbers IMHO.

MaVs 41 BaLler · 12-10-2008, 08:18 PM

Man just when i taught the suns won't make the playoffs
Well, somebodies gotta miss them.

SMC0007 · 12-10-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

Nash
Richardson
Barnes
Amare
Shaq

dammit.

Bell/Diaw???? That's it??? They didn't even have to touch Nash or Shaq or Amare or Leandro or their young guys like Lopez or Dragic. Their 5th and 6th best players for Charlotte's best player and a 2nd rounder. That's like trading Bass and Barea.

+

Suns got a great deal. Especially dumping Diaws contract. Kinda disappoints me the Mavs weren't able to or wouldn't grab him. F

MavsFanFinley · 12-10-2008, 08:34 PM

What a freaking steal for the Suns.

jayC · 12-10-2008, 08:37 PM

It seems like a win-win for both teams. The Bobcats already had Gerald Wallace so really Jrich was expendable. The Bobcats needed a powerforward to go with Emeka Okafor.

The Suns needed a shake up and this is just what they needed.

SMC0007 · 12-10-2008, 08:39 PM

Ok, so who is the PF they got? Diaw sucks and seems to have lost his confidence.

Janett_Reno · 12-10-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokey41

I wonder how Amare's going to react with another scorer taking attention away from him. If he doesn't feel like 'the man' now then he's not going to when Richardson is chucking a couple ill-advised shots every night. He'll benefit heavily from Nash giving him better looks than he's used to, and after playing as the man in Charlotte being the 3rd/4th option will be a welcome change. Good move for the Suns.

This will be interesting and for Amare. Amare amazes me now with his outside shot. I never knew he could bomb away and hit shot after shot from the outside but if they want to win playoff games and possibly a title, Amare needs to dunk all nba players thru the basket. Like Lebron does. A dunk is a high % shot and most of the time you get fouled also. He is so good in the lane. Shaq sometimes has signs of a younger Shaq.

I think this is going to help the Suns and maybe alot. Now Nash has another Marion dunking the ball with Rich and he also can hit him with 3's. If i was Amare, i would want a title because i am finally seeing Nash slow down some. Nash hasn't got long and when Nash goes, Shaq will go and Amare will slow way down. Nash is the heart. Now Nash, Rich, Amare are very dangerous and Shaq can be down low. Barnes plays alot like Bell and is 2" taller. Diaw looked like he was going to be good but he just don't like playing down low and he is to eratic but has size.

If they can get good play from Hill, some from Lopez, and now they must stay healthy but this bunch is very prone for injury. Nash, Rich, Shaq, Amare, Hill and Barnes.

Jared Dudley at 6'7" will benefit rom Nash also and he will help the Suns also. Richardson shooting an amazing 46% from 3 line, Nash shooting 42% from 3 can really stretch a defense where it leaves Amare and Shaq one on one in the painted area could be good. Amare shoots a whopping 56% and Shaq 60%. These are amazing numbers and n numbers that have a title but they don't play good defense, they are thin on the bench, and have alot of guys injury prone.

Barnes shoots 47%. I do not blame the Suns for what they did. Nash and Shaq and maybe even Hill are about done. They need a title this year and the Lakers are stacked. Amare needs to play team ball and go in the paint alot and throw it down. Rich will help Shaq alot and also Nash. Can this team play any defense, can they stay healthy, can these 6 to 8 main guys log huge minutes, can Barbosa be less eratic. If alot of those things break right, they have a shot. It will be interesting because if they did nothing, they were toast.

fluid.forty.one · 12-10-2008, 10:20 PM

Richard is going to kill us again now.

Janett_Reno · 12-10-2008, 10:43 PM

He opens up the court more and Phx needs this as they need Shaq and Amare down low and open. Rich can go in dunking or bombing 3's and Nash will be perfect for him.

We did Harris for Kidd for one to three years and that was it. Phx is doing this in a time window of now or next year. A problem for all the west is the Lakers are not only good to great but they are younger than alot of teams or a good mix, plus they have a bench. They are deep. Phx is trying but the guys on that team will have to log alot of mins because they have no bench or not to deep.

I am actually proud of our coach knowing we will lose to good teams, so shake things up and use Barea and make teams match up to us and atleast he can drive and score. It makes us have a chance because of simply offense. Phx and Dallas are going to have a tough time on defense stopping trees in the 4th in the paint or guys like Paul, Gino, Parker, Kobe out front. I hope the west gets better, all teams, to compete with the Lakers. I'm not a Lakers fan.

alby · 12-10-2008, 10:48 PM

If Jordan needed a front court, we could have offered Bass or something.

Like I said, dammit.

Just when I thought we were a shoe in for the playoffs.

Janett_Reno · 12-10-2008, 11:28 PM

We might make a trade.

nashtymavsfan13 · 12-11-2008, 02:18 AM

Helluva deal for the Suns, getting a 20+ point scorer for garbage. He would've been great in a Mavs uni, we better have at least made an offer for him.

mqywaaah · 12-11-2008, 02:32 AM

The Mavs will land a better deal, soon. I can feel it.

alby · 12-11-2008, 03:16 AM

You know you've lost faith in the FO when there is a genuine questioning about whether or not they made attempt to go after Jason Richardson or not.

dalger · 12-11-2008, 04:23 AM

Honestly, what package could we have offered that would have been superior to the Suns' combination of Bell/Diaw? Apparently, the Bobcats intentionally downgraded the 2 and upgraded the 4 in hopes to get better overall.

We could have offered Bass who might have been of interest. But other than that, we pretty much don't have any guard the calibre of Bell that we would want to give up.

Phoenix' starting 5 looks nice after the trade, especially offensively, but their bench has really gotten thin. Their starters will have to play heavy minutes, which Shaq doesn't do anymore, and any injuries would significantly weaken their chances.

It will be interesting to see how this one plays out. But just because the Suns did a trade, it doesn't mean that our front office should panic and do a trade simply to change something. If a trade were to be done, I would like one without Josh as its centerpiece because almost every idea including Josh seems to be a zero-sum game and could potentially make us worse.

Dirkenstien · 12-11-2008, 09:28 AM

I can't believe Richardson was on the block and we didn't make a move to get him. Phoenix definitely won that trade and now we're still sitting here with Antoine Wright and Devean George fighting it out for the 2 guard spot.

This was our chance to finally get that missing piece and the FO fell on their faces...again.

Pathetic.

dalmations202 · 12-11-2008, 10:50 AM

I think the Bobcats upgraded for a Brown team. Bell and Diaw are much better players for Brown who emphasizes defense than JRich was. Of course they lost a little offense though.

DJ, Bell, Wallace, Diaw, and Okafor looks pretty stout on paper. They still really need a center and move Diaw to backup Okafor and Wallace -- but they look like they could be just pretty darn good in a few years. Actually Diop makes lots of sense to that team as being a Ben Wallace clone who stops the rim stuff.

I think this might be a win win for these teams. Now Charlotte has to define the Okafor, Wallace, and Diaw roles to make this work out -- but it is possible for sure.

Phoenix just got tougher -- but their defense looks just awful to me. Nash, Amare aren't known for playing defense at all. JRich and Shaq play little D, and Shaq is losing it quickly. They are going to have to win 120 -110, IMO to make this one work.

Underdog · 12-11-2008, 11:16 AM

Great offense, no defense - why'd they get rid of D'Antoni, again???

The New Phoenix Suns, same as the Old Phoenix Suns...

alby · 12-11-2008, 12:03 PM

Barnes = younger/taller/longer Raja
JRich >>>> Diaw

I don't think their defense suffered IMHO

dalmations202 · 12-11-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

Barnes = younger/taller/longer Raja
JRich >>>> Diaw

I don't think their defense suffered IMHO

They already had Barnes though at the SF. Bell/Barnes is better D than JRich/Barnes.
Diaw brought some O to the SF/PF -- lots more when used as Amare instead of with Amare.

I still don't see my D there. Nash, JRich, Barnes, Amare, Shaq with a bench of Barbosa and ????'s.

Barnes plays some D, at times, and Shaq did when younger, but this team I don't think has the D to shut down LA, and the O is only close to LA.

alby · 12-11-2008, 12:43 PM

^ do you think this trade hurts or helps Phoenix

dirno2000 · 12-11-2008, 12:47 PM

This trade is about the arrogance of Larry Brown believing that he can win with less talented players as long as they "play the right way".

FreshJive · 12-11-2008, 01:44 PM

What is the deal with spare ex point gaurds mucking up beautiful teams (Avery, Kerr, Porter)? Try to turn Dirk into a post player and take away his threes, trade Marion for Shaq, turn Nash into an entry passer. They couldn't do much but shoot the ball and feed the post as players, so they won't let thier skilled perimeter guys play.

dalmations202 · 12-11-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

^ do you think this trade hurts or helps Phoenix

I am guessing it will help with the new offense they are running. Possibly bringing them up to 6th in West.

I do not think it will be close to enough to get past the Lakers or San Antonio though and their window is awfully small.

I think they did it for a shot this year and next, but will totally retool around Amare and Richardson in 2010. Shaq, Nash, Hill gone. Big dollars available.

dalmations202 · 12-11-2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

This trade is about the arrogance of Larry Brown believing that he can win with less talented players as long as they "play the right way".

It very well could be -- of course it very well could be that LB is correct.

Everyone playing their role helps at times. Trying to do too much/little can destroy a team, especially if players think they should do this, when the rest of the team is doing that.

horse900703 · 12-11-2008, 04:26 PM

big trade, good for the suns