The Obama Gun Effect

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

you should quit speaking of things you know nothing about. Do some research. The various gun bans including assault weapon bans all allowed for a "grandfather clause" that stated that all previously imported/produced/owned weapons that existed prior to the ban are legal. Thus, it is common language in the gun industry to speak of a weapon as "pre-ban" or "post-ban" based on its production/importation date.

Besides, the "assault weapons" bans have all been easy to circumvent quite legally. The last (now expired) ban described the weapons and made certain characteristics illegal. The companies just removed the "objectionable" characteristics and kept on selling the ARs, AK47s, M14s, FALs, etc., etc.

All you had to do to have an "assault weapon" (the name assault weapon is funny and inaccurate because no military uses these "assault weapons" as they are semi automatic and the military weapons are fully automatic) is to remove the following features:
-magazine larger than 10 round capacity
-pistol grip
-threaded barrel end (or you can just weld the suppressor on the end of the threaded barrel which makes it legal as well)
-grenade launcher and grenade launcher attachment
-knife (bayonet, bayonet lug)
-barrel of a minimum length
-overall gun length of a certain length
-etc.

Anyway, the last ban was a joke. The guns kept flowing.

Anyway, every ban/restriction ever put in place included a "grandfather clause"

allowing for "banned" weapons to be commercialy traded doesn't qualify as a ban at all does it?

iow if a product can be sold, there wouldn't be too much of a constriction of supply to the demand.

you better hope for a real ban with teeth to it for your "investment" to produce a return.

the gun merchants appreciate your business.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

allowing for "banned" weapons to be commercialy traded doesn't qualify as a ban at all does it?

iow if a product can be sold, there wouldn't be too much of a constriction of supply to the demand.

you better hope for a real ban with teeth to it for your "investment" to produce a return.

the gun merchants appreciate your business.

you continue to demonstrate your complete ignorance. Let me give you a few examples to make it simple for you.

The Israeli Military Industries (IMI) exported to the USA in 1989 the Hadar II. It was a "Sporting Firearm" based on the highly effective IMI Galil (a military weapon). It was altered in several ways to satify the US laws to have it qualifed as a "Sporting Firearm". It had a small 5 round magazine, a heavier wood stock with no pistol grip, no threaded barrel, and no bayonet (knife) attachment, and no grenade launcher attachment.

The Feinstein Ban was legislated and it listed several COMPANIES that could no longer import guns to the USA. IMI was on the Ban list because IMI also makes the Uzi.

So, the Hadar II was only imported into the USA in 1989 (one year only). The gun sold for around 700 dollars back then.

Once the ban was in place, the gun now sells for about 2300 dollars. The demand for the gun remains high enough to push the low availability to drive the price up.

The Hadar II imported in 1989 is a completely legal gun and can be traded/sold in the USA with no restriction (at least no restriction other than the usual laws that govern all gun sales). IMI simply cannot import more of them. IMI can import the parts for the gun so long as they don't import the receiver (the central piece of the gun). US companies can make receivers that are clones of the IMI receiver. Section 922r of the NFA laws states that a gun can be assembled from an imported parts kit so long as no more than ten parts in the gun are imported. So, you can use ten IMI parts and find the other parts made in the USA and legally assemble the gun.

The Galil itself is another lesson for you. The Galil is Israeli's recreation of the famous AK47. The Galil is perhaps the premier class of AK47 inspired weapons in the world. There are a few equally impressive AK47 inspired weapons and which one is "best" is a matter of opinion.

Anyway, the Galil is made by IMI. The civilian versions of the Galil that were exported by Israel to the USA before 1989 are completely legal guns (they are "pre ban" in regard to the Feinstein ban) and can be bought/sold/traded with no restrictions other than the usual restrictions in play for all weapons. The civilian versions of the Galil differ from the military Galil in that:
1)not fully automatic
2)no grenade launcher

Anyway, if you have an original 100% IMI Galil imported into the USA before 1989, then you have a gun that routinely trades for 3K to 4.5K; they previously sold for around 1000 dollars when they arrived in the states...

Anyway, there are a few examples for you to ponder.

The guns that are already here which guns arrived legally remain legal and can be traded legally. When new supplies of new guns are banned, then the guns already here double or triple in value.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

you continue to demonstrate your complete ignorance. Let me give you a few examples to make it simple for you.

The Israeli Military Industries (IMI) exported to the USA in 1989 the Hadar II. It was a "Sporting Firearm" based on the highly effective IMI Galil (a military weapon). It was altered in several ways to satify the US laws to have it qualifed as a "Sporting Firearm". It had a small 5 round magazine, a heavier wood stock with no pistol grip, no threaded barrel, and no bayonet (knife) attachment, and no grenade launcher attachment.

The Feinstein Ban was legislated and it listed several COMPANIES that could no longer import guns to the USA. IMI was on the Ban list because IMI also makes the Uzi.

So, the Hadar II was only imported into the USA in 1989 (one year only). The gun sold for around 700 dollars back then.

Once the ban was in place, the gun now sells for about 2300 dollars. The demand for the gun remains high enough to push the low availability to drive the price up.

The Hadar II imported in 1989 is a completely legal gun and can be traded/sold in the USA with no restriction (at least no restriction other than the usual laws that govern all gun sales). IMI simply cannot import more of them. IMI can import the parts for the gun so long as they don't import the receiver (the central piece of the gun). US companies can make receivers that are clones of the IMI receiver. Section 922r of the NFA laws states that a gun can be assembled from an imported parts kit so long as no more than ten parts in the gun are imported. So, you can use ten IMI parts and find the other parts made in the USA and legally assemble the gun.

The Galil itself is another lesson for you. The Galil is Israeli's recreation of the famous AK47. The Galil is perhaps the premier class of AK47 inspired weapons in the world. There are a few equally impressive AK47 inspired weapons and which one is "best" is a matter of opinion.

Anyway, the Galil is made by IMI. The civilian versions of the Galil that were exported by Israel to the USA before 1989 are completely legal guns (they are "pre ban" in regard to the Feinstein ban) and can be bought/sold/traded with no restrictions other than the usual restrictions in play for all weapons. The civilian versions of the Galil differ from the military Galil in that:
1)not fully automatic
2)no grenade launcher

Anyway, if you have an original 100% IMI Galil imported into the USA before 1989, then you have a gun that routinely trades for 3K to 4.5K; they previously sold for around 1000 dollars when they arrived in the states...

Anyway, there are a few examples for you to ponder.

The guns that are already here which guns arrived legally remain legal and can be traded legally. When new supplies of new guns are banned, then the guns already here double or triple in value.

no, "ignorance" is believing that buying all this ammo and guns because of an expectation that it will be "banned' is a profitable investment.

oe there is the "ignorance" that is driving all these purchases of guns and ammos based on the belief that there is some draconian new regs coming down.

but keep it up, the gun merchants enjoy the boom in business.

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

no, "ignorance" is believing that buying all this ammo and guns because of an expectation that it will be "banned' is a profitable investment.

oe there is the "ignorance" that is driving all these purchases of guns and ammos based on the belief that there is some draconian new regs coming down.

but keep it up, the gun merchants enjoy the boom in business.

Whether or not a ban is enacted, guns will continue to increase in value. I have owned guns most of my life, and every gun I own is now worth much more than when originally purchased. A ban simply accelerates the increase in value, as wmbwinn described (IMI Hadar II, IMI Galil, etc).

I went to the Fort Worth gun show in mid November, and the placed was completely packed. As I was leaving, someone commented on how busy it was. His friend said, "This is what change looks like, Comrade."

And speaking of Change, it looks like your Messiah is pissing off his own people....

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by jefelump

Whether or not a ban is enacted, guns will continue to increase in value. I have owned guns most of my life, and every gun I own is now worth much more than when originally purchased. A ban simply accelerates the increase in value, as wmbwinn described (IMI Hadar II, IMI Galil, etc).

I went to the Fort Worth gun show in mid November, and the placed was completely packed. As I was leaving, someone commented on how busy it was. His friend said, "This is what change looks like, Comrade."

Just a FYI -- it is your type that is pissing me off. Not because you aren't right, and don't have the right to buy a few more guns and ammo, but because my salary hasn't increased at the speed of the cost of guns -- especially since the first week of Nov. So I can't increase like I would like to.

I thought I'd pick up a few, but good grief the $$$$. I talked with a friend who has a FFL and he told me they sold more guns the first week after the vote, than they had all year previous.

Not that I have a need for another weapon, but I would like a good hunting/military style .223 for my son and they are outrageous right now.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Just a FYI -- it is your type that is pissing me off. Not because you aren't right, and don't have the right to buy a few more guns and ammo, but because my salary hasn't increased at the speed of the cost of guns -- especially since the first week of Nov. So I can't increase like I would like to.

I thought I'd pick up a few, but good grief the $$$$. I talked with a friend who has a FFL and he told me they sold more guns the first week after the vote, than they had all year previous.

Not that I have a need for another weapon, but I would like a good hunting/military style .223 for my son and they are outrageous right now.

Look at the Century sporter "Golani" Galil clone. Price has actually fallen. They are on backorder at most places right now. But, they can be found. If you want a military style gun, that one is available. Now, if you want a AR15, good luck.

If you want an inexpensive hunting .223, look at Rossi or New England Firearm/Harrington and Richardson.

[wmbwinn]

Alexamenos: If you want one gun for multi-purpose applications with great effectiveness, then that one gun has to be a 12 gauge shotgun.

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Look at the Century sporter "Golani" Galil clone. Price has actually fallen. They are on backorder at most places right now. But, they can be found. If you want a military style gun, that one is available. Now, if you want a AR15, good luck.

If you want an inexpensive hunting .223, look at Rossi or New England Firearm/Harrington and Richardson.

Dalmations, I was going to suggest NEF (New England Firearms) too. I just saw one on gunbroker.com for less than $100. However, it's a break-top action, which means single shot. No semi-auto.

I was just looking also at the Galil/Golani sporters on gunbroker.com, which is what I bought (before the election, I haven't bought any guns since the election), and there are several of those available, ranging from $700-$900. However, I bought mine from a wholesaler, not at auction. Check out www.classicarms.us. They don't have any listed right now, because they sold out, but I'm sure they will have them again.

If you're going to hunt with a .223, double check the gun laws. I don't know if it's an issue or not in TX, but in some states it's illegal to hunt deer with a 22 caliber bullet. Varmints I'm sure are fine anywhere.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Just a FYI -- it is your type that is pissing me off. Not because you aren't right, and don't have the right to buy a few more guns and ammo, but because my salary hasn't increased at the speed of the cost of guns -- especially since the first week of Nov. So I can't increase like I would like to.

I thought I'd pick up a few, but good grief the $$$$. I talked with a friend who has a FFL and he told me they sold more guns the first week after the vote, than they had all year previous.

Not that I have a need for another weapon, but I would like a good hunting/military style .223 for my son and they are outrageous right now.

another cheap option that you can probably find is the Saiga AK47 inspired .223

But, if you want an AR... they aren't available hardly at all right now. Too high a demand.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

no, "ignorance" is believing that buying all this ammo and guns because of an expectation that it will be "banned' is a profitable investment.

oe there is the "ignorance" that is driving all these purchases of guns and ammos based on the belief that there is some draconian new regs coming down.

but keep it up, the gun merchants enjoy the boom in business.

I would be willing to bet you 10 thousand dollars that my gun collection and ammunition will increase in value at a higher rate than the S&P500 on the stock market for at least two years.

If you are so sure that I am wrong, take me up on the bet.