Diop for Felton in 3 team trade? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

ghazi · 01-11-2009, 02:28 PM

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketb..._magic/?page=2

An NBA source said a three-team trade is in the works that would include Oklahoma City sending guard Earl Watson to Charlotte, Dallas sending center DeSagana Diop to Charlotte, and Charlotte guard Raymond Felton going to Dallas.

BUT I WANT GERALD!!

twistaeffect2004 · 01-11-2009, 02:45 PM

Who would OKC get in the deal?

If I'm Dallas I do it with a smile on my face.

We get Raymond Felton for just Diop? Sign me up.

Stranger · 01-11-2009, 03:12 PM

This sounds too good to be true... but I will keep my fingers crossed. Felton for Diop would be fantastic.

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2009, 03:18 PM

If you don't have to dip into your Bass/Stack bag for this deal, it seems like a pretty nice move to make for now and for insurance. You can still use those two and Josh to get more pieces.

vRookie · 01-11-2009, 03:18 PM

I think Barea must also be involved, because OKC lose Watson leaving them with only one PG

FINtastic · 01-11-2009, 04:19 PM

I love Felton. Sign me up as well.

SeriousSummer · 01-11-2009, 04:56 PM

It would be a good move for Dallas, but other players must be involved for the numbers to work.

Dallas would also need a second center, preferably one who can score--Miller or Curry are probably the most available, and a deal including some combination of Howard, Stackhouse and Bass could bring back one of those two players and additional help at the swing positions.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 01-11-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vRookie

I think Barea must also be involved, because OKC lose Watson leaving them with only one PG

Didnt OKC just make a trade for a pg?

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2009, 05:24 PM

They've got Atkins, Westbrook and Watson...they'd probably be Ok with Atkins and Westbrook. Watson isn't in the long term plans anyways I would imagine.

jthig32 · 01-11-2009, 05:28 PM

This wouldn't really help the Mavs much this year, but if we could get an asset like Felton in exchange for Diop's horrible contract I would do backflips.

SMC0007 · 01-11-2009, 05:35 PM

Is there anything that would leave anyone to believe that FO could pull off that kind of sweetness?

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-11-2009, 05:44 PM

^Sounds a little too good to be true to me. The trade will look less desirable if Stack and/or Bass have to be included. Might still be worth it to get Diop off the books though since I really don't see who else would take on his ridiculous contract at this point.

Underdog · 01-11-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

This wouldn't really help the Mavs much this year, but if we could get an asset like Felton in exchange for Diop's horrible contract I would do backflips.

What if we move Kidd?

jthig32 · 01-11-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

What if we move Kidd?

Oh it would open up all kinds of possibilities this year and beyond. But if you're moving Kidd at any point this season, you're probably not trying to win this season.

dalmations202 · 01-11-2009, 05:58 PM

Unless it there is an additional deal, I'd have to say no way.

Dallas' Center situation is OK but no where near a big strength. Move Diop and it easily becomes the weakest part of the team. Combine that with the fact that your SG is below avg and that isn't good.

All that for a backup or #3 PG (depending on if he beats out Berea).

Not for me. PG is not the problem right now, so why weaken a position?

Underdog · 01-11-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Oh it would open up all kinds of possibilities this year and beyond. But if you're moving Kidd at any point this season, you're probably not trying to win this season.

Does it look like we're trying to win this season?

jthig32 · 01-11-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Unless it there is an additional deal, I'd have to say no way.

Dallas' Center situation is OK but no where near a big strength. Move Diop and it easily becomes the weakest part of the team. Combine that with the fact that your SG is below avg and that isn't good.

All that for a backup or #3 PG (depending on if he beats out Berea).

Not for me. PG is not the problem right now, so why weaken a position?

Not every trade is about this season. PG could very easily be a problem next season. If you can somehow flip Diop (who is playing a whopping 13 minutes a game this season, and falling) for a 24 year old starting caliber PG you do that in a nanosecond. I mean it's an absolute no brainer. Honestly if you could get a team with cap space to just TAKE Diop for say a second round pick, THAT'S a no brainer.

There's really no data that indicates losing Diop would be anything but a plus for this team on the court. His season long plus minus is horrible, and still sinking. In fact he's approaching Stackhouse's incredible -72.

Plus if you read DLord's article, the numbers straight up don't match. Filler would have to be added on both sides, which is where you can get a guy like Joe Smith from Oklahoma, who would step in quite nicely for Diop (although that's not saying much, anyone could step in for Diop at this point).

dalmations202 · 01-11-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Not every trade is about this season. PG could very easily be a problem next season. If you can somehow flip Diop (who is playing a whopping 13 minutes a game this season, and falling) for a 24 year old starting caliber PG you do that in a nanosecond. I mean it's an absolute no brainer. Honestly if you could get a team with cap space to just TAKE Diop for say a second round pick, THAT'S a no brainer.

There's really no data that indicates losing Diop would be anything but a plus for this team on the court. His season long plus minus is horrible, and still sinking. In fact he's approaching Stackhouse's incredible -72.

Plus if you read DLord's article, the numbers straight up don't match. Filler would have to be added on both sides, which is where you can get a guy like Joe Smith from Oklahoma, who would step in quite nicely for Diop (although that's not saying much, anyone could step in for Diop at this point).

I understand what you are saying, and I am not wholly disagreeing.

I have seen the Mavs with just one Center though, and what they look like when they don't have a true second center. Bass and Singleton don't cut it against playoff caliber teams. 15m out of Diop is better.

Not sure how you get Diop involved, or if they are better of trading him. I am sure that getting another PG for this year and probably the next few is somewhat useless (unless they are considering letting Kidd go).

Trade a swing for a PG. Don't trade big for small though, because Bigs are too hard to come by that have any talent at all.

jthig32 · 01-11-2009, 06:21 PM

Diop is a negative on the court and has a horrible contract. Trading his for anything that has a better contract is a positive.

And Kidd is a free agent after this season. There is no "letting" him go. If he wants to sign with someone else he can and will. And if this team continues to struggle this season and either misses the playoffs or barely squeaks in only to be drubbed in the first round, what odds would you put on Kidd returning? I'd say about 25%.

And again, you can get a second center in the trade or elsewhere to play at least as good as Diop has been playing. This team has played A LOT better this season with Bass at center than with Diop.

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2009, 06:22 PM

Joe Smith is a guy that would've been nice maybe 2 years ago, but it's a nice body to have at the end of the bench.

Having Felton brings us another young body on deck and gives us a lot of outs in terms of the PG position for the next 1-2 years. I don't know if Felton can turn the corner but he's still young enough to see what he can do for you now and then if need be, you can ship him out in time. It's a lot more in flexibility for the position.

I'm starting to believe more and more that we're going to try to deal Josh, plus you still have Bass and Stack to use in deals. They just need to not stop short like they did last year. Make the move you need to make, but keep going with the plan.

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Diop is a negative on the court and has a horrible contract. Trading his for anything that has a better contract is a positive.

And Kidd is a free agent after this season. There is no "letting" him go. If he wants to sign with someone else he can and will. And if this team continues to struggle this season and either misses the playoffs or barely squeaks in only to be drubbed in the first round, what odds would you put on Kidd returning? I'd say about 25%.

Dare I say: yes, yes, yes, yes

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-11-2009, 06:34 PM

You know what else this trade would do? Make the Harris-Kidd trade look a LOT better.

Harris, Diop for Kidd, Felton, Wright suddenly looks like a no-brainer.

twistaeffect2004 · 01-11-2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Diop is a negative on the court and has a horrible contract. Trading his for anything that has a better contract is a positive.

And Kidd is a free agent after this season. There is no "letting" him go. If he wants to sign with someone else he can and will. And if this team continues to struggle this season and either misses the playoffs or barely squeaks in only to be drubbed in the first round, what odds would you put on Kidd returning? I'd say about 25%.

And again, you can get a second center in the trade or elsewhere to play at least as good as Diop has been playing. This team has played A LOT better this season with Bass at center than with Diop.

I don't think anything else needs to be said, just read this post.

twistaeffect2004 · 01-11-2009, 07:20 PM

I still can't get passed the fact that we'd be receiving anything of value for Diop.

Why would the Bobcats want Diop? He's been a horrible player with an even worse contract.

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2009, 07:26 PM

I've mentioned it before, Diop is clearly not the best option overall for a big man, but he might be the best one available. You're not always going to get the best guy, but if all you can do is get the best available or do nothing...then you'll have to settle. They've had an eye on him for months so if we're trying to ship him out, that is the likely destination.

Dirkenstien · 01-11-2009, 07:36 PM

This is just so-so for me. Maybe it would be a part of something bigger? Hopefully.

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

This is just so-so for me. Maybe it would be a part of something bigger? Hopefully.

Based on the standard eyeball glance at it, then it looks kind of iffy. I think when you look at it for now, long term, and potential follow-ups that it looks very nice.

The two major points are you would make yourself a little more flexible heading on into the future, and you've given yourself some outs with security at the PG/G position.

-Diop has sucked...plain and simple when you look at the price-tag, we aren't getting the production we need based on the price. I think a lot of us don't see the switch turning on any time soon for him so his contract as a whole looks bad. If you're able to get talent in return for an ugly contract, when you usually have to take junk back, you've hit paydirt.

-Felton gives you some more to work with for the guard position. He can score, but it's not very efficient. He can run the offense as well, so you've got a nice stable of guards with Kidd, Jet, Felton and JJB. He's young enough to where you might be able to see him reach his potential but he is still very serviceable right now. It's also insurance for if Kidd decides to leave after this year.

You still hopefully have Bass and Stack together to use in a deal, and Josh can be used as well. You're getting something back for an asset you pretty much felt you had little trade value and you didn't have to dip into your legit trade pieces...I think that's a success.

Thomas86 · 01-11-2009, 08:28 PM

I don't care what everybody says I would do this trade, Felton can play SG or can be the new PG if Jason Kidd is traded.

thereaper · 01-11-2009, 08:38 PM

Thoughts on May?

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2009, 08:39 PM

I don't see him coming here, if he was dealt, I figure it's to OKC.

The Charlotte Observer is picking up on the report as well and adding a little bit more info to the story.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/spo...ry/466600.html

The GM didn't sound like he was saying this isn't something that may be going down.

twistaeffect2004 · 01-11-2009, 08:45 PM

The smoke is certainly there, whether there is fire here is another story. The sources who are picking this trade up are usually pretty legitimate. This doesn't seem like a "Hoopsworld.com exclusive" scam.

jthig32 · 01-11-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I don't see him coming here, if he was dealt, I figure it's to OKC.

The Charlotte Observer is picking up on the report as well and adding a little bit more info to the story.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/spo...ry/466600.html

The GM didn't sound like he was saying this isn't something that may be going down.

Nazr Mohammed is basically Diop (although I think he's better) with the same contract only for half as long.

If we somehow send Diop and, say Stackhouse, for Felton and Mohammed that is an absolute steal.

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2009, 08:52 PM

If Bill Ingram is not anywhere to be seen in this story, it's got some legitimacy to it.

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Nazr Mohammed is basically Diop (although I think he's better) with the same contract only for half as long.

If we somehow send Diop and, say Stackhouse, for Felton and Mohammed that is an absolute steal.

I got the impression that Mohammed would be the piece for the Thunder, if they're still involved...is that wrong?

MaVs 41 BaLler · 01-11-2009, 10:21 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3826213

The Charlotte Bobcats, Dallas Mavericks and Oklahoma City Thunder put the pieces in place for a three-team trade late last week, but NBA front-office sources said Sunday that those talks have gone "dormant."

Sources told ESPN.com that the full deal, as originally constructed, would have sent Raymond Felton, Nazr Mohammed and Sean May from Charlotte to Dallas, landed Earl Watson and Dallas' DeSagana Diop with the Bobcats and shipped Jerry Stackhouse to the Thunder along with a future second-round pick.

The Boston Globe reported in its Sunday editions that a trade headlined by Felton and Watson was "in the works," but sources with knowledge of the talks told ESPN.com on Friday and again Sunday that the discussions have gone quiet.

"Dormant is a good word," one source said.

It was unclear Sunday night if the trade can still be resurrected or revised, but sources say one impediment is an injury suffered in Tuesday's victory over Boston by Bobcats rookie guard D.J. Augustin, which could suddenly make Charlotte reluctant to part with Felton. Augustin is expected to miss at least 10 days after he aggravated the abdominal injury in Saturday's victory over Washington.

If the trade can be revived, Watson would be moving to Charlotte as a veteran backup to Augustin, whose emergence has led many executives around the league to presume that Felton would be moved before the league's Feb. 19 trading deadline. Felton is playing on an expiring contract that pays him $4.1 million this season and will be a restricted free agent this summer.

The Bobcats, furthermore, have been to trying to add Diop to their front line as a defensive specialist since he was a free agent last summer. As ESPN.com reported in July, Charlotte offered Diop the same five-year deal worth more than $32 million that the 7-foot center wound up signing with the Mavericks.

Dallas has been shopping Stackhouse, Diop and Brandon Bass for weeks in hopes of acquiring a player of Felton's caliber. But if he winds up going to Dallas, Felton would have to fit into a rotation of lead guards which already features Jason Kidd, Jason Terry and J.J. Barea.

Mohammed and May -- whose conditioning has been repeatedly criticized by first-year Bobcats coach Larry Brown -- were earmarked in last week's trade talks as replacements for Diop to back up Mavs center Erick Dampier.

The possibility of Stackhouse winding up with the Thunder has been discussed for weeks, sources said, with that scenario first surfacing in a standard two-team deal that would have sent Watson to Dallas. Stackhouse, 34, has played in only eight games this season but can be bought out next season for $2 million, making the former All-Star's current $7 million salary a virtual expiring contract.

If these three-way talks dissolve completely, Dallas is expected to continue to push hard for at least one trade before the February deadline, with Stackhouse's cap-friendly contract and possibly another former All-Star -- swingman Josh Howard -- in play.

"Dallas is talking to everyone," one rival executive said.

twistaeffect2004 · 01-11-2009, 10:27 PM

That sucks.

Tokey41 · 01-11-2009, 10:28 PM

Felton would be a terrific player to have on this team. If this went down I would take a cautiously optimistic approach to the Mavs future.

All that would remain would be the trading of Kidd's contract, getting some value for Howard (which Stein has said we're trying to do from EVERYONE), and possibly making the Bass + Stack combo something decent. If all of these moves are accomplished on top of Diop for Felton these events would, undoubtedly, restore even the most pessimistic Mavs fan's faith in our FO and franchise as a whole.

If we're trading away Kidd we're 'probably' taking the approach of not trying to win a title this season... and if that happened in addition to this trade, would that mean Dirk would become available (for a young upcoming star) as well? Any trade involving him would be done with great hesitation and I doubt it would happen this year if at all... but if the front office is rebuilding they need to get some value out of their most coveted player. Of course, 'rebuilding' is speculation at this point... as is the trade. Let's just keep hoping something goes right for us.

EricaLubarsky · 01-11-2009, 10:39 PM

you have to do that deal if its available. HAVE TO. Kidd is barely our right-now guy and definitely not a future guy. As much as I love Diop, he isn't contributing at all to this team and his contract is very restricting because of that. Getting rid of him, and getting some value for Stack is just too sweet to pass up, especially since the deal would not include Bass.

BGMaverick9 · 01-11-2009, 10:42 PM

That pretty much seems like the major snag is DJ got hurt and they are a little worried to be thin with just Watson running the point. Hopefully the talks are just in a standstill until he comes back and is healthy and talks can wrap up.

BUT, that makes it interesting that May would be coming to...that makes him and Bass really unnecessary to be together on the same squad. Do you need 2 undersized PFs, one of which is usually hurt? I guess then you use Bass as a throw-in for young talent if you move Josh.

jthig32 · 01-11-2009, 11:08 PM

Man what a sweet deal. Assuming it falls through I sure it had never been leaked because missing out on that hurts.