Mavs Pursuing Wallace

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

60 million is a lot of money. I'd love to know the numbers on it like years and soforth

We're already sitting on

55million
2million for George
6.5 for Stack
---------------
63.3 million (+5million of Bradley who still counts against the cap)

which means we will be over the tax threshold meaning that if we don't dump any salary, Wallace's entire salary (at least this year) will be paid double. We also don't have Barea or Pops signed yet.

Does that number include the Salary of Finley? If so, then his numbers dont count for luxury tax purposes from the Cancer clause.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Does that number include the Salary of Finley? If so, then his numbers dont count for luxury tax purposes from the Cancer clause.

They do not

[StackAttack]

As per angryllama from LMF, talking heads in Charlotte seem to think he's Dallas-bound:

"I just spent some time in the Western Carolinas and imbibed the local sports while I was there. I found it interesting to know that the locals seem to think that Gerald Wallace is all but gone.

Where to?

Your Dallas Mavericks.

We have a typically pessimistic bunch here in the metroplex that seems to thrive off of doubt and self-loathing, but a slow-cooked, savory jaunt to the Appalachians helps one to gain a bit of perspective.

While discussing the Gerald Wallace situation, local talking heads seem to think that Wallace would be rather foolish to spurn Cuban and the Mavs, even if it only brings the MLE in return. They seem to think that its pretty much a done deal that GWallace flies out of Charlotte to land at DFW in the very near future.

What I found particularly funny is the aw-shucks giddiness that the local talk radio hosts displayed in lavishing praise both on Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks organization. They really want to be like Uncle Dallas when they grow up.

So...is Wallace soon to be a Mav? A strong, forceful clean-up offensive player who can defend athletic 3's / 4's in the post would be a great addition. He would help to bring the team rebounding proficiency up on both ends.

Say YES to Gerald Wallace in '07."

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

They do not

Does Bradley full salary count against the cap? I was wondering about that, because didnt the Mavs buy him out or something like that?

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by StackAttack

As per angryllama from LMF, talking heads in Charlotte seem to think he's Dallas-bound:

"I just spent some time in the Western Carolinas and imbibed the local sports while I was there. I found it interesting to know that the locals seem to think that Gerald Wallace is all but gone.

Where to?

Your Dallas Mavericks.

We have a typically pessimistic bunch here in the metroplex that seems to thrive off of doubt and self-loathing, but a slow-cooked, savory jaunt to the Appalachians helps one to gain a bit of perspective.

While discussing the Gerald Wallace situation, local talking heads seem to think that Wallace would be rather foolish to spurn Cuban and the Mavs, even if it only brings the MLE in return. They seem to think that its pretty much a done deal that GWallace flies out of Charlotte to land at DFW in the very near future.

What I found particularly funny is the aw-shucks giddiness that the local talk radio hosts displayed in lavishing praise both on Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks organization. They really want to be like Uncle Dallas when they grow up.

So...is Wallace soon to be a Mav? A strong, forceful clean-up offensive player who can defend athletic 3's / 4's in the post would be a great addition. He would help to bring the team rebounding proficiency up on both ends.

Say YES to Gerald Wallace in '07."

Signing Wallace would be like hitting the jackpot for the Mavs. This keeps the team intact, and fills a fatal flaw that we had last year. All that would be left is to sign PJ Brown with our other exception..

The line-up would look like this:

Terry/Harris--PG
Howard--SG
Wallace--SF
Dirk---PF
Damp/Diop--Center

That would be a very good line-up that had solid defenders in 4 of 5 spots. Then if we get PJ Brown, we could essentially at times have a team on the floor that could defend very well at all 5 positions.

Then off the bench you have either Terry or Harris, Stack, George, PJ Brown, Damp or Diop, ReShawn?, and Ager in the rotation. That is a very solid bench..

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by StackAttack

As per angryllama from LMF, talking heads in Charlotte seem to think he's Dallas-bound:

"I just spent some time in the Western Carolinas and imbibed the local sports while I was there. I found it interesting to know that the locals seem to think that Gerald Wallace is all but gone.

Where to?

Your Dallas Mavericks.

We have a typically pessimistic bunch here in the metroplex that seems to thrive off of doubt and self-loathing, but a slow-cooked, savory jaunt to the Appalachians helps one to gain a bit of perspective.

While discussing the Gerald Wallace situation, local talking heads seem to think that Wallace would be rather foolish to spurn Cuban and the Mavs, even if it only brings the MLE in return. They seem to think that its pretty much a done deal that GWallace flies out of Charlotte to land at DFW in the very near future.

What I found particularly funny is the aw-shucks giddiness that the local talk radio hosts displayed in lavishing praise both on Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks organization. They really want to be like Uncle Dallas when they grow up.

So...is Wallace soon to be a Mav? A strong, forceful clean-up offensive player who can defend athletic 3's / 4's in the post would be a great addition. He would help to bring the team rebounding proficiency up on both ends.

Say YES to Gerald Wallace in '07."

I'll play the percentages and say that Wallace does not decide to turn down $60+ mil from the Bobcats to take half that amount from the Mavs.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Does Bradley full salary count against the cap? I was wondering about that, because didnt the Mavs buy him out or something like that?

Whatever buyout the Mavs and Bradley agreed to is what he counts against the cap as.

[jacktruth]

I've never seen a player not go for the money.

. . .except Nick Van Exel, who is now the poster boy of why you should always go for the money.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Whatever buyout the Mavs and Bradley agreed to is what he counts against the cap as.

That is what I was thinking, but it has never been disclosed what the buyout was.

[alby]

There's gotta be some money involved under the table if Wallace agrees to sign for the MLE to join the Mavericks, while giving up over 60 million to stay where his home is. But who cares, I want Gerald.

[Willstar]

gimme wallace

[MascisMan]

Wallace would be outstanding

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by alby

There's gotta be some money involved under the table if Wallace agrees to sign for the MLE to join the Mavericks, while giving up over 60 million to stay where his home is. But who cares, I want Gerald.

I wanted to get some viewpoints on how we can get Wallace.

From what I am reading the MLE will be around 6 million.

But, we could also pay 8% raises for each year up to 5 years.

This means we could offer Wallace 5 yrs/34.6 milion right? With the pay raises..

Now, I am trying to see if we could still offer a bonus to Wallace, which could be up to 20% of total compensation(34.6 million), which means about 8 million.

If we divide 8 million by 5= $1.6 million signing bonus each year

So, Wallace base salary would have to be lowered by $1.6million = $4.4 base salary for this year, then he would also get the entire bonus $8 million this year as well for a grand total of 12.4 million total compensation for this year?

This makes the entire deal worth about 40.6 million over 5 years?

[Nowitness41]

Wallace would be a great fit for us. imo.

[me770706]

i'm not sure about josh at the 2

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I wanted to get some viewpoints on how we can get Wallace.

From what I am reading the MLE will be around 6 million.

But, we could also pay 8% raises for each year up to 5 years.

This means we could offer Wallace 5 yrs/34.6 milion right? With the pay raises..

Now, I am trying to see if we could still offer a bonus to Wallace, which could be up to 20% of total compensation(34.6 million), which means about 8 million.

If we divide 8 million by 5= $1.6 million signing bonus each year

So, Wallace base salary would have to be lowered by $1.6million = $4.4 base salary for this year, then he would also get the entire bonus $8 million this year as well for a grand total of 12.4 million total compensation for this year?

This makes the entire deal worth about 40.6 million over 5 years?

You're essentially correct up until the very last sentence. The total dollars paid throughout the contract does not increase. Wallace would benefit by having a bigger chunk paid to him up front, but at the end of 5 years he'd end up having been paid that same $34.8 mil.

It's kind of a moot point though because as far as the team's salary cap is concerned all contracts get allocated as if no signing bonus was paid.

[mavs413]

If he signed here for 3 years and 20 million he would be playing on a championship contender team all three years. After 3 years we could then re-sign him for the contract he wants now. He would be 28 and he could still get that 5 or 6 year deal worth 60-70 million.

If he re-signs with Charlotte now for 6 years his next contract would probably be 3 years 20 million anyway since he would be 31 years old then.

So he can play here with Devin, Josh, Dirk in Dallas, make the same amount of money, and I'll say that if he is on this team for the next 9 years playing with those guys, he will retire with a couple of rings too.

[DelNegro]

He could, but then he'd be betting $40 to $50 million that he doesn't get hurt within the next 3 years. Or maybe he comes to Dallas and finds that even if he stays healthy his individual numbers won't be as good simply because he's on a better team with more guys who can carry the load. Then instead of cashing in as a 25 year old coming off an 18 & 7 season he's trying to cash in as a 28 year old coming of a season of 13 & 6.

Maybe Wallace wants to be the exception that proves the rule, but the rule most definitely is that you cash in for as much as you can as soon as you can.

[mavs413]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

He could, but then he'd be betting $40 to $50 million that he doesn't get hurt within the next 3 years. Or maybe he comes to Dallas and finds that even if he stays healthy his individual numbers won't be as good simply because he's on a better team with more guys who can carry the load. Then instead of cashing in as a 25 year old coming off an 18 & 7 season he's trying to cash in as a 28 year old coming of a season of 13 & 6.

Maybe Wallace wants to be the exception that proves the rule, but the rule most definitely is that you cash in for as much as you can as soon as you can.

Dude you sound like an agent.
Major injuries in basketball are rare and I don't see him averaging less than 18 and 7 in any year in the next 3 regardless of the existing talent, he is still getting better.
13 & 6? come on. His third year he'll be at the top of his game and it'll only be him, Josh, and Dirk that are scorers on that team. I'm predicting that Terry would be gone by then and Stack will be old as balls.

[alby]

Noone who is still young would take that risk. We are talking about millions of dollars here.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

You're essentially correct up until the very last sentence. The total dollars paid throughout the contract does not increase. Wallace would benefit by having a bigger chunk paid to him up front, but at the end of 5 years he'd end up having been paid that same $34.8 mil.

It's kind of a moot point though because as far as the team's salary cap is concerned all contracts get allocated as if no signing bonus was paid.

See this is where I am confused, because I thought we could give him a signing bonus on top of the MLE? I read to where it says that we could give him 8% raise each year while signing him to an MLE, but the confusion starts when you try to factor in a signing bonus as well.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by mavs413

Dude you sound like an agent.
Major injuries in basketball are rare and I don't see him averaging less than 18 and 7 in any year in the next 3 regardless of the existing talent, he is still getting better.
13 & 6? come on. His third year he'll be at the top of his game and it'll only be him, Josh, and Dirk that are scorers on that team. I'm predicting that Terry would be gone by then and Stack will be old as balls.

You're right. I do sound like an agent. I'll bet I sound a lot like Gerald Wallace's agent to be specific. Major injuries are rare, but they do happen. Shaun Livingston is probably wishing he had gotten the opportuninty to cash in before his injury.

It would be one thing if we were just talking about a few million, but we're not. Wallace would literally be risking tens of millions of dollars. He's not going to take that chance.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

See this is where I am confused, because I thought we could give him a signing bonus on top of the MLE? I read to where it says that we could give him 8% raise each year while signing him to an MLE, but the confusion starts when you try to factor in a signing bonus as well.

First, the bad news. ESPN is reporting the new salary cap, and the MLE. Per ESPN the MLE only came in at $5.356 mil. Over 5 years with 8% raises that projects out to $31.06 mil.

As for the signing bonus, using the $5.356 number the deal would look like this.
$5.356
$5.784
$6.213
$6.641
$7.070
Total $31.065

20% of that could be paid in terms of a signing bonus. That would be $6.213. That bonus gets divided by the number of years, 5, and that amount gets subtracted off of each of the 5 years of the deal. In year 1 Wallace would get paid the bonus, plus the amount of the first year salary minus 1/5 of the bonus. In each of the other years Wallace would get the base amount minus 1/5 of the bonus. That works out like this
$4.113 + $6.213
$4.542
$4.970
$5.399
$5.827
Total $31.065

The above numbers represent what Wallace would actually get paid. Not what his cap figure would be. Even though he gets a bigger chunk of money up front and less on the back end, his cap amount still his the mavs cap as if there was no bonus.

Hope that helps.

Here's the link to ESPN's story about the cap.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2932279

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

First, the bad news. ESPN is reporting the new salary cap, and the MLE. Per ESPN the MLE only came in at $5.356 mil. Over 5 years with 8% raises that projects out to $31.06 mil.

As for the signing bonus, using the $5.356 number the deal would look like this.
$5.356
$5.784
$6.213
$6.641
$7.070
Total $31.065

20% of that could be paid in terms of a signing bonus. That would be $6.213. That bonus gets divided by the number of years, 5, and that amount gets subtracted off of each of the 5 years of the deal. In year 1 Wallace would get paid the bonus, plus the amount of the first year salary minus 1/5 of the bonus. In each of the other years Wallace would get the base amount minus 1/5 of the bonus. That works out like this
$4.113 + $6.213
$4.542
$4.970
$5.399
$5.827
Total $31.065

The above numbers represent what Wallace would actually get paid. Not what his cap figure would be. Even though he gets a bigger chunk of money up front and less on the back end, his cap amount still his the mavs cap as if there was no bonus.

Hope that helps.

Here's the link to ESPN's story about the cap.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2932279

This makes sense now. So in essence, there is no true signing bonus if signing with an exception. All it really is, is that you can pay more upfront to try to entice the deal for the player.

So, we can say that if the Mavs were under the cap, then they could arrange a true bonus to a player above what they are actually paying the guy according to salary?

[mavs413]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

You're right. I do sound like an agent. I'll bet I sound a lot like Gerald Wallace's agent to be specific. Major injuries are rare, but they do happen. Shaun Livingston is probably wishing he had gotten the opportuninty to cash in before his injury.

And how many veterans without rings are there each year that sign with contenders hoping that it will get them a championship before they retire?
You say its a risk, of course it is, but NBA history shows that major injuries in this sport are very rare and its not like he'd be homeless if a freak accident like Livingston's occurs, so how big a risk is it really?

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

This makes sense now. So in essence, there is no true signing bonus if signing with an exception. All it really is, is that you can pay more upfront to try to entice the deal for the player.

So, we can say that if the Mavs were under the cap, then they could arrange a true bonus to a player above what they are actually paying the guy according to salary?

If the Mavs were under the cap the bonus setup would still work the same way, only the dollars would be bigger as the mavs wouldn't be constrained by the MLE as their starting point.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by mavs413

And how many veterans without rings are there each year that sign with contenders hoping that it will get them a championship before they retire?
You say its a risk, of course it is, but NBA history shows that major injuries in this sport are very rare and its not like he'd be homeless if a freak accident like Livingston's occurs, so how big a risk is it really?

At 24 years old and "only" having banked about $15 mil in his first 6 seasons, does Wallace fit the "aging veteran looking for a ring" mold, or the "young guy looking to cash in" mold?

Guys like Finley and Hill who have already banked $100 mil over their careers take less to chase rings. Guys like Wallace are looking for that big payday.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

At 24 years old and "only" having banked about $15 mil in his first 6 seasons, does Wallace fit the "aging veteran looking for a ring" mold, or the "young guy looking to cash in" mold?

Guys like Finley and Hill who have already banked $100 mil over their careers take less to chase rings. Guys like Wallace are looking for that big payday.

I expect if finley weren't getting 18million or so from cubes his thought process would be a little different as well.

Wallace is crazy to defer money, he might be out of the league tommorrow.

[DelNegro]

^^^ Agreed.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by mavs413

If he signed here for 3 years and 20 million he would be playing on a championship contender team all three years.

Assuming he doesn't get traded. Then he could be stuck with a substandard contract AND be on a bad team. Think about Quintin Richardson - he signs with Phoenix in 2004 and then the Suns trade him to the Knicks in 2005. Talk about a harsh life lesson.

And the injury doesn't have to be career ending. A small injury could change a near All-Star to just another player. Think Jim Jackson and his ankle injury. It doesn't take much to derail a career. And the change in money is staggering.

Between the possibility of being traded and injury, the risk is too high. Take the money young man!

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Whatever buyout the Mavs and Bradley agreed to is what he counts against the cap as.

I was led to believe that Bradley retired due to injury and did not count against the cap. I am sure that I read that the Mavs got an injury waiver.

[DelNegro]

Originally Posted by MFFL

I was led to believe that Bradley retired due to injury and did not count against the cap. I am sure that I read that the Mavs got an injury waiver.

There's a discussion about this in the NBA thread as well. I may have just missed it, but I don't remember hearing about it. If that's the case though then you're right that he's not on the Mavs cap.

[DelNegro]

After doing a google search I couldn't find anything. Also, considering Bradley played in 77 games his last season I'd say the odds of the mavs being able to sell the league on the notion of Bradley being physically unable to play were pretty slim. It sure looks to me like he's still on the Mavs cap.

[rabbitproof]

DelNotradeorsigningwilleverhappengro.

[DelNegro]

Have any trades or signings happened?

[Stranger]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Have any trades or signings happened?

The negotiating period started ten days ago and the signing period begins today... how much could have happened?

[MascisMan]

I hope we sign Manute Bol

[DelNegro]

That won't happen either.

Sincerely,

DelNotradeorsigningwilleverhappengro.

[rabbitproof]

Let's talk about how nothing will happen.

[DelNegro]

Capped out. Over the luxury tax. Not enough trade assets to get involved in a blockbuster deal. I'd say nothing happening is a very distinct possibility.