2006 Heisman Talk - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

#1MavsFan · 10-14-2006, 01:05 AM

Didn't see a topic for this yet and it's never too early to talk heisman so here we go.

Theres no way I would hand the heisman to Brady Quinn since he's actually outplayed his team out of games and heisman winners don't do that. Troy Smith is having a great season but hasn't put up the best numbers or had a lot of key plays. Adrian Peterson is having a great season and lighting it up in the 4th quarter but theres a guy out there with much better numbers by the name of Garrett Wolfe.

Wolfe is on pace to break just about every division I rushing/total yardage records that there are. He's played amazingly well against #1 ranked Ohio State, Ball State, and will have played against Iowa before it's all set and done. Usually just to consider anyone from such a small school as Northern Illinois would make people look at you funny but Wolfe is the real deal despite only being 5-7, and an amazing 177 pounds.

Check this article out on him as well:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/colum...t&lid=tab2pos2

Drbio · 10-14-2006, 01:38 AM

When was the last time a small schooler won the Heisman?

Five-ofan · 10-14-2006, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #1MavsFan

Didn't see a topic for this yet and it's never too early to talk heisman so here we go.

Theres no way I would hand the heisman to Brady Quinn since he's actually outplayed his team out of games and heisman winners don't do that. Troy Smith is having a great season but hasn't put up the best numbers or had a lot of key plays. Adrian Peterson is having a great season and lighting it up in the 4th quarter but theres a guy out there with much better numbers by the name of Garrett Wolfe.

Wolfe is on pace to break just about every division I rushing/total yardage records that there are. He's played amazingly well against #1 ranked Ohio State, Ball State, and will have played against Iowa before it's all set and done. Usually just to consider anyone from such a small school as Northern Illinois would make people look at you funny but Wolfe is the real deal despite only being 5-7, and an amazing 177 pounds.

Check this article out on him as well:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/colum...t&lid=tab2pos2

If a rb on a non undefeated team wins it, it will and should be Adrian peterson. As for quinn, hes brodie Croyle with more hype and better receivers. The heisman will go to smith if they stay undefeated and it might go to Slaton if they dont. If no one goes undefeated I think it goes to Adrian.

#1MavsFan · 10-14-2006, 02:26 AM

The thing about giving it to Smith is that he hasn't really put up heisman numbers IMO. Don't get me wrong, he's having a great season but has A LOT of help. If Wolfe gets close to 3,000 yards for the season I can't see why you wouldn't give it to him. It probably won't happen though since it's almost impossible for small schools to have a heisman winner.

And doc I have no idea on that one, will have to look it up.

nikeball · 10-14-2006, 03:12 AM

i tihnk it should go to peterson as well...and i am a UT alumnus. wow. crazy.

brady quinn = way overrated. media loves ND..hope they go 8-4 or 9-3
troy smith = too many weapons on his team. and yes his numbers are not that great. but if they're the only team that is undefeated at end of the season...he just might get it

peterson = only constant on a bad team. puts up numbers everyweek with a new starting QB and no other real "stars" on the team. my vote goes to this man beast. i'll be happy when he declares for the nfl draft after this year!! yay! that means the 'horns wont have to face him again next year in the red river shootout. where as our core offense will still be intact ... with colt, jamaal, sweed (i tihnk he is WAY overrated though. if anyone watches ut games -- goes to them etc -- knows he has TERRIBLE hands. stone hands.)

ocelot_ark · 10-14-2006, 12:30 PM

No way Peterson gets the Heisman. OU already has 2 losses. Potential for more. Detractors will say, "If he was a heisman candidate they'd only have one loss."

SaltwaterChaffy · 10-14-2006, 01:02 PM

Ark,

They should only have 1 loss.

Five-ofan · 10-14-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

No way Peterson gets the Heisman. OU already has 2 losses. Potential for more. Detractors will say, "If he was a heisman candidate they'd only have one loss."

it wasnt until extremely recently that people thought you needed to go undefeated to win a heisman. You need to have a quality record but UT was what 9-3 or 8-4 when ricky won his?

Drbio · 10-14-2006, 03:17 PM

I can say with 100% certainty that Peterson will not win the Heisman. He is now out for the year with a broken collarbone.

nikeball · 10-14-2006, 05:11 PM

^lol i was about to say that.

looks like he probably wont declare for the draft this year.

Five-ofan · 10-14-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikeball

^lol i was about to say that.

looks like he probably wont declare for the draft this year.

oh yes he will, this wont hurt his draft stock.

#1MavsFan · 10-14-2006, 06:12 PM

That really sucks for Peterson, especially since it was the first game his dad watched him play as a sooner.

And it looks like I jinxed Garrett Wolfe as he got a incredible 27 yards rushing for the game.

nikeball · 10-14-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

oh yes he will, this wont hurt his draft stock.

i tihnk the injury will. he has been injury prone throughout his OU days..people may question is durability.

but i tihnk this years draft class is not as strong as previous years. thus it may not hurt stock...any other year..it may have.

ocelot_ark · 10-14-2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

No way Peterson gets the Heisman.

I'm awesome.

Murphy3 · 10-14-2006, 08:58 PM

Breaking a collarbone won't make NFL scouts think that the player is injury prone unless it's believed that he has some rare disease that leaves his bones brittle and easily broken (obviously, that is not the case). This won't hurt his draft status, and I'd be shocked if he didn't enter the NFL draft. The break will heal quickly enough and there should be no questions about his health going into the pre-draft combine/workouts.

nikeball · 10-14-2006, 09:45 PM

^^injury prone...just means that he is more prone to injury? AD has missed a good amount of games these 3 years in college..maybe 1/3 of his games (full/partial?)

i know some scouts wont like that

Murphy3 · 10-14-2006, 09:49 PM

I know what injury prone means. However, I've never heard of anyone being accused by a scout or organization as being injury prone for breaking a bone.

4cwebb · 10-18-2006, 12:40 AM

At this point, there almost isn't a player deserving of the Heisman. And if Troy Smith wins it, he can line up right behind the many other qbs to have won it in the last 20 years or so and done just about nothing at the next level. That would be fine by me.

Five-ofan · 10-18-2006, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4cwebb

At this point, there almost isn't a player deserving of the Heisman. And if Troy Smith wins it, he can line up right behind the many other qbs to have won it in the last 20 years or so and done just about nothing at the next level. That would be fine by me.

reggie bush isnt gonna be that special as a pro so i dont really see the point of that statement, its a college award.

Drbio · 10-18-2006, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #1MavsFan

That really sucks for Peterson, especially since it was the first game his dad watched him play as a sooner.

And it looks like I jinxed Garrett Wolfe as he got a incredible 27 yards rushing for the game.

LOL! The first time I watch for him he lays an egg.

capitalcity · 10-18-2006, 03:19 AM

P.J. HILL - Running Back, Wisconsin Badgers

09/02 @ Bowling Green - 22 car/ 130 yds/ 1 td/ 1 rec/ 22 yds
09/09 vs WESTERNILL - 22 car/ 101 yds/ 3 td/ 2 rec/ 10 yds
09/16 vs San Diego St - 26 car/ 184 yds/ 1 td/ 3 rec/ 8 yds
09/23 @ Michigan - 20 car/ 54 yds/ 0 td/ 5 rec/ 64 yds/ 1 td
09/30 @ Indiana - 23 car/ 129 yds/ 3 td/ 1 rec/ 37 yds
10/07 vs Northwestern - 35 car/ 249 yds/ 1 td/ 1 rec/ 14 yds
10/14 vs Minnesota - 25 car/ 164 yds/ 2 td/ 0 rec

Rushing - 173 carries/ 1011 yards/ 11 touchdowns
Receiving - 13 receptions/ 155 yards/ 1 touchdown

Team is 6-1 with only loss coming at #2 Michigan.
0 Fumbles
Freshman

nikeball · 10-18-2006, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

reggie bush isnt gonna be that special as a pro so i dont really see the point of that statement, its a college award.

i think RB has the potential to be special as a pro. he reminds me of barry sanders in their running styles. and he catches passes better.

however...he is the most overrated player to come out of college in a long time.

4cwebb · 10-18-2006, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

reggie bush isnt gonna be that special as a pro so i dont really see the point of that statement, its a college award.

I think Ron Dayne won the award, too, and he sucks as a pro...however, it seems to me that the QBs usually selected for the heisman in the last 25 years (from Gino Toretta to Danny Wuerful (sp?) to Jason White) have had less success at the next level than other players that have won the award. I do understand that it is not billed as a predicator of pro success...

and I guess that the jury will be out for a few years on Reggie Bush. I doubt he's the next Barry Sanders, but it will be fun to watch if he is.

Drbio · 10-18-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikeball

i think RB has the potential to be special as a pro. he reminds me of barry sanders in their running styles. and he catches passes better.

however...he is the most overrated player to come out of college in a long time.

Whoa whoa whoa....wait just a minute here....you simply do not get to use Barry Sanders as a comparisons and then punt your way to the other side by stating the player is overrated. He either is or is not similar to Sanders....who imho is arguably the best running back to ever play in the NFL.

capitalcity · 10-18-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

Sanders....who imho is arguably the best running back to ever play in the NFL.

*cough* Jim Brown *cough*

Five-ofan · 10-18-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

Whoa whoa whoa....wait just a minute here....you simply do not get to use Barry Sanders as a comparisons and then punt your way to the other side by stating the player is overrated. He either is or is not similar to Sanders....who imho is arguably the best running back to ever play in the NFL.

Thats exactly what I was thinking, I dont think Sanders was the best rb ever but since you said arguably i definitely agree with that. I think its a 4 man conversation and hes one of the 4.(sanders, Payton, Brown, Smith) He also had arguably the best individual season in college history with 2500+ yards rushing. Reggie Bush is a poor mans Brian Westbrook, not Barry Sanders. The difference between the two is that when, and if barry needed to run in between the tackles, he could. Bush cant. Plus as good as Bush is in space, hes still not as good as Barry was.

ocelot_ark · 10-18-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalcity

P.J. HILL - Running Back, Wisconsin Badgers

09/02 @ Bowling Green - 22 car/ 130 yds/ 1 td/ 1 rec/ 22 yds
09/09 vs WESTERNILL - 22 car/ 101 yds/ 3 td/ 2 rec/ 10 yds
09/16 vs San Diego St - 26 car/ 184 yds/ 1 td/ 3 rec/ 8 yds
09/23 @ Michigan - 20 car/ 54 yds/ 0 td/ 5 rec/ 64 yds/ 1 td
09/30 @ Indiana - 23 car/ 129 yds/ 3 td/ 1 rec/ 37 yds
10/07 vs Northwestern - 35 car/ 249 yds/ 1 td/ 1 rec/ 14 yds
10/14 vs Minnesota - 25 car/ 164 yds/ 2 td/ 0 rec

Rushing - 173 carries/ 1011 yards/ 11 touchdowns
Receiving - 13 receptions/ 155 yards/ 1 touchdown

Team is 6-1 with only loss coming at #2 Michigan.
0 Fumbles
Freshman

Wow! Check out those powerhouses. The only time he faced a real team...54 yards.

If McFadden wasn't sharing carries with Felix Jones...man. Obviously I'm biased, but there's not a better RB in the nation. Sure, some guys put up better numbers. But not against teams like Auburn. If you don't get to watch McFadden play much...he can juke people out...but he'd prefer to run them over.

capitalcity · 10-18-2006, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

Wow! Check out those powerhouses. The only time he faced a real team...54 yards.

If McFadden wasn't sharing carries with Felix Jones...man. Obviously I'm biased, but there's not a better RB in the nation. Sure, some guys put up better numbers. But not against teams like Auburn. If you don't get to watch McFadden play much...he can juke people out...but he'd prefer to run them over.

Dude I'm pimping the guy who actually showed up for my fantasy team. UNLIKE jones who f'd me 2 weeks running to start the season, while bloodsport champ Darren was on the shelf.

BTW, if Arky wins the west and tOSU vs Mich go undefeated until nov. 18...

Big 10 > SEC

ocelot_ark · 10-18-2006, 01:10 PM

MAC > little12

capitalcity · 10-18-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

MAC > little12

I knew that last dig wouldn't go un-noticed.

Sooo Pig, and all that.

Five-ofan · 10-18-2006, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

MAC > little12

haha, and sadly the big 12s best team is still better than anyone in the sec...

ocelot_ark · 10-18-2006, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

haha, and sadly the big 12s best team is still better than anyone in the sec...

Says you. I won't convince any of you, since you're all such flaming UT homers. UT would be one of those top tier teams in the SEC. But that doesn't guarantee a damn thing. Have an off week against someone like Oklahoma State...you can still probably win (And I'm not saying the SEC doesn't have it's share of cakewalks). It's just harder to make it through the SEC undefeated. Top to bottom, the league is more talented and faster.

Have an off week against Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn, LSU...you're gonna lose. If UT has an off week...is there anyone you really think they'd lose to most years? OU. Nebraska maybe. Tech can sneak up on you. aTm tries.

Let me illustrate it for you guys in terms you might understand. NBA. Is it harder to win 60 games in the East or in the West? Duh. The SEC is the West. The Big 12 is the East. UT is Miami. They are the one good team among a bunch of also rans. Would Miami have made it to the Championship game if they had been in the West? Maybe...but the road there would have been much harder.

From Oct 16 issue of Sports Illustrated:

nikeball · 10-18-2006, 06:51 PM

i thought bush was like barry in that that are VERY shifty and can accelerate on a whim.

as for running through holes inbetween tackles...barry didnt seem to do that much...since the Detroit O line kind of sucked during his time..imho....he usually ran around them or seemed to get tackled for 10 yard loss then break through for a 70 yard TD...

and i am aware of barry's 2000 yard sesason...so his O line couldnt have been that bad q=P

4cwebb · 10-19-2006, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Thats exactly what I was thinking, I dont think Sanders was the best rb ever but since you said arguably i definitely agree with that. I think its a 4 man conversation and hes one of the 4.(sanders, Payton, Brown, Smith) He also had arguably the best individual season in college history with 2500+ yards rushing. Reggie Bush is a poor mans Brian Westbrook, not Barry Sanders. The difference between the two is that when, and if barry needed to run in between the tackles, he could. Bush cant. Plus as good as Bush is in space, hes still not as good as Barry was.

The stat I remember (or thought I'd remembered) about Barry's big year was that he scored 37 tds...37! After double checking, it was actually 39, or 8 more than any other player has scored in a single season in NCAA football.

And I highly doubt that UT would be undefeated had they just played the first six or seven games of Florida's schedule instead of their own. SEC is hands down the toughest conference in football this year, and as a result probably will not have a representative in the national title game to show for it. I think USC wins out, and the winner of Ohio St. & Michigan will be undefeated [presuming Michigan doesn't choke first].

ocelot_ark · 10-19-2006, 08:27 AM

I think USC could easily lose to Cal or Notre Dame. I'm hoping for that.

alby · 10-19-2006, 08:30 AM

go cal! =]

capitalcity · 10-22-2006, 12:23 PM

Last week, P.J. Hill joined Jamario Thomas, Marshall Faulk, Adrian Peterson and Emmitt Smith on the list of freshman running backs in NCAA history to rush for over 1,000 yards in their first seven starts. On Saturday, Hill's astounding freshman campaign rolled on, as he scored two touchdowns while gaining 159 yards on 29 carries. Here are Hill's Heisman-worthy stats through his first eight college games.

Att. Yards Avg. TD
202 1,170 5.8 13

Five-ofan · 11-07-2006, 10:57 AM

Whats funny is that I thought UT would have a young guy in the backfield that they would ride giving him heisman worthy numbers. I was right. I was just wrong about who it was going to be. I wouldnt vote him over smith or anything but Colt has had an amazing season. To be honest I would vote him over brady quinn. I dont see how he hasnt gotten ANY heisman talk. i know he would be a darkhorse and all but hes leading a top 5 team and has been amazing. 27 and 4.

#1MavsFan · 11-07-2006, 09:01 PM

If Texas wins out and Colt continues to have a great TD-INT ratio than he has to be considered for the heisman even though he's a freshman.

Just211 · 11-07-2006, 10:19 PM

here's the heisman
troy smith if he beats Michigan,
Brady Quinn if Michagan beats OSU, and ND beats USC
up for graps if OSU loses to Michigan, and ND loses to USC
that would be interesting