Suns vs Spurs 2007 Western Conference Semi-Finals Thread - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dtownsfinest · 05-06-2007, 06:18 PM

Tough break for the Suns. I thought the Spurs would've pulled it out even if Nash was in there but atleast they could've had a fair chance at winning the game. The guy's nose was running like a V8 engine though. I don't agree with the no blood rule but it does make sense. You don't want two guys out there with open cuts playing against each other.

DelNegro · 05-06-2007, 06:27 PM

Sucks for the Suns, but that's the rule. Anyone who doesn't like it now has one more reason to hate Karl Malone since his complaining about Magic is what got that rule put in the books in the first place.

enervate · 05-06-2007, 06:32 PM

Wasn't the blood rule made because of Magic Johnson?

Either way... that was discusting... ewww

Darth Ape · 05-06-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

A run-and-gun team would have to win more than one championship to completely convince me that it is the new way to win. BUT I do believe that you must be equipped to deal with a run-and-gun team or you will get embarrassed like we did.

WEll, you'd at least be forced to admit that the theory that this style of play "can't win in the playoffs" has been disproven. In fact, I think you can pretty much dismiss that idea now.

jthig32 · 05-06-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

WEll, you'd at least be forced to admit that the theory that this style of play "can't win in the playoffs" has been disproven. In fact, I think you can pretty much dismiss that idea now.

Because the Warriors won one series?

Usually Lurkin · 05-06-2007, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

WEll, you'd at least be forced to admit that the theory that this style of play "can't win in the playoffs" has been disproven. In fact, I think you can pretty much dismiss that idea now.

the mavs and kings had both made it deep years ago with that style. The knock is that it's not as consistent, and not as reliable, and is not as good a bet.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-06-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

WEll, you'd at least be forced to admit that the theory that this style of play "can't win in the playoffs" has been disproven. In fact, I think you can pretty much dismiss that idea now.

Before ANY of such teams win the whole thing?

Stranger · 05-06-2007, 06:43 PM

The Suns and Warriors have yet to get out of the second round. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I do think that because of the rule changes and the lack of post players a run-and-gun team is a more viable option than it's been in the past. But one first-round upset is hardly definitive.

Stranger · 05-06-2007, 06:45 PM

I'm not sure if this is anything new, but I would be willing to concede that to win nowadays you need the ABILITY to run, at least part of the time. That's why we desperately need a fast guard that can create some offense.

The Crippler · 05-06-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RingTheBell

Every team needs to bitch every time they get a foul just like the Spurs. It really works it seems.

Be sure to stay tuned after the game the ref's are going to have Duncan walk on water.

Actually, the difference wasn't the refs or anything else. The difference in the game was that your suns are a bunch of pussies on the glass and got out rebounded by 14.

The foul calls throughout the game were remarkably even and the final stats show this to be true as the 6FT discrepancy is due to the fact that the suns were forced to intentionally foul at the end of the game. In fact, the Spurs had been called for more fouls until the final 2 min of the game.

Your boys need to grow some nuts and hit the glass. But that won't happen as nuts don't just sprout up over night.

RingTheBell · 05-06-2007, 07:18 PM

With Nash, LB, Bell, Marion, and Stoudemire on the floor and Marion guarding Parker and forcing him to leave the paint it does not give you alot of rebounding options.

vjz · 05-06-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

WEll, you'd at least be forced to admit that the theory that this style of play "can't win in the playoffs" has been disproven. In fact, I think you can pretty much dismiss that idea now.

It's not just run-and-gun vs traditional... 7 of the last 8 championships have been won by Shaq or Duncan. It just shows how good they are.

Dtownsfinest · 05-06-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

With Nash, LB, Bell, Marion, and Stoudemire on the floor and Marion guarding Parker and forcing him to leave the paint it does not give you alot of rebounding options.

And....? You do know that's coaching on D'Antoni's part right? That's all they have the personnel for. Kurt Thomas looks to be solid in limited minutes. If D'Antoni had another Kurt Thomas on the team i'm sure we'd see more of Amare at the 4. Suns are going to have a problem with the Spurs if they don't fix the rebounding descrepency. Especially since the Spurs shot 66% from the free throw line and too many turnovers. They're usually a care-free team.

BaselineBum · 05-06-2007, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

Actually, the difference wasn't the refs or anything else. The difference in the game was that your suns are a bunch of pussies on the glass and got out rebounded by 14.

The foul calls throughout the game were remarkably even and the final stats show this to be true as the 6FT discrepancy is due to the fact that the suns were forced to intentionally foul at the end of the game. In fact, the Spurs had been called for more fouls until the final 2 min of the game.

Your boys need to grow some nuts and hit the glass. But that won't happen as nuts don't just sprout up over night.

Word! Phoenix wants to get out in the open court and start a fastbreak as soon as the ball is shot..........gotta have the ball first to get a fastbreak going. And don't even get me started about how D'Antoni looks like he just got electroucted after EVERY call against his team. How he didn't get Tech's in this game is beyond belief.

RingTheBell · 05-06-2007, 07:46 PM

Hopefully the starting 5 next game are Nash, Bell, Marion, Amare, and KT. James Jones did nothing but pick up 2 fast fouls.

With Marion on Gino and Bell on Parker.

Flacolaco · 05-06-2007, 08:39 PM

Today started the defeating of the "gimmick"

I hate the Spurs, but they know how to play "playoff basketball"

The Crippler · 05-06-2007, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RingTheBell

Hopefully the starting 5 next game are Nash, Bell, Marion, Amare, and KT. James Jones did nothing but pick up 2 fast fouls.

With Marion on Gino and Bell on Parker.

That might work better. But will Mike Dan Tony roll with that? I'm doubting that he will.

Flacolaco · 05-06-2007, 11:05 PM

He finally looks like a real canadian. Somebody get that man some skates and a stick

Henry_VIII · 05-06-2007, 11:28 PM

One point that deserves mentioning: "run and gun" typically refers to a free flowing offense that places less emphasis on defense. In this style, points are given up rather freely with the expectation of getting them back quickly. GS did not beat Dallas by playing a straight up "run and gun" game. They played some great defense. They denied entries passes, doubled when the situation demanded it, and then recovered fairly effectively. A free flowing offense plus a consistent defense can win playoff games because it doesn't rely *solely* on the offense. I had not seen the defensive side of GS before this series. I have seen it come in streaks in Phoenix. In that way I see a shift from the "gimmick".
Defense has and always will win the championship. Offensive efficiency can greatly aid in the effort but cannot replace it.

Usually Lurkin · 05-07-2007, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry_VIII

GS did not beat Dallas by playing a straight up "run and gun" game. They played some great defense.

And Dallas abandoned their own "traditional" approach for the home loss. That series was not a good a test of philosophies as Suns v. Spurs is.

TVI · 05-07-2007, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry_VIII

One point that deserves mentioning: "run and gun" typically refers to a free flowing offense that places less emphasis on defense. In this style, points are given up rather freely with the expectation of getting them back quickly. GS did not beat Dallas by playing a straight up "run and gun" game. They played some great defense. They denied entries passes, doubled when the situation demanded it, and then recovered fairly effectively. A free flowing offense plus a consistent defense can win playoff games because it doesn't rely *solely* on the offense. I had not seen the defensive side of GS before this series. I have seen it come in streaks in Phoenix. In that way I see a shift from the "gimmick".
Defense has and always will win the championship. Offensive efficiency can greatly aid in the effort but cannot replace it.

Very good analysis. Spot on...

Grammaton Cleric · 05-07-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaselineBum

Word! Phoenix wants to get out in the open court and start a fastbreak as soon as the ball is shot..........gotta have the ball first to get a fastbreak going. And don't even get me started about how D'Antoni looks like he just got electroucted after EVERY call against his team. How he didn't get Tech's in this game is beyond belief.

So what else is new? The Suns routinely get outrebounded, yet they still won 61 games in the regular season and took out the Flakers in 5.

The thing that killed the Suns in this game was Duncan getting high percentage shots whenever he wanted. If the Spurs continue to shoot 50+ percent, the Suns are screwed. That stretch in the third where they made like nine out of ten shots is what turned the tide in their favor.

They need to get Duncan in foul trouble, which appears to be damn-near impossible.

As far as D'Antoni goes - well, better to have him hollering at the refs than his players. The Spurs on the other hand, are a joke with their incessant bitching after EVERY call. Duncan didn't get his first foul until the THIRD quarter, yet he looked like someone just shot his mother.

Do you ever see a Spurs player just man up and say, "Yup, I hacked him"?

Rarely, if ever. And it's typically some scrub trying to absorb a foul committed by Duncan.

Nash2STAT · 05-07-2007, 12:15 PM

Duncan never fouls. Everyone knows this by now, and the only ref who didn't believe it was fired from the league.

TruthbHeard · 05-07-2007, 12:35 PM

Id like to see the Jazz win it all, as long as Suns dont make it their im happy =P

Flacolaco · 05-08-2007, 10:12 PM

Has anyone seen Marion in the first quarter?

this is an interesting game

The Crippler · 05-08-2007, 10:24 PM

Danny Crawford is just an awful referee. I hate him and his stupid-ass mustache.

vjz · 05-08-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthbHeard

Id like to see the Jazz win it all, as long as Suns dont make it their im happy =P

I don't see the Jazz beating either the Suns or the Spurs. I am rooting for the Pistons...

Flacolaco · 05-08-2007, 11:09 PM

Only one spur in double figures through half time. Not really going to beat the Suns that way probably...

rabbitproof · 05-08-2007, 11:26 PM

That Duncan is pretty good.

mkat · 05-08-2007, 11:32 PM

bad foul for duncan.

mkat · 05-08-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

That Duncan is pretty good.

yeah. old and slow and all that...

vjz · 05-09-2007, 12:00 AM

Good win for the Suns. Good defense on Duncan by KT & Nash was awesome.

twelli · 05-09-2007, 12:20 AM

Interesting that they don't double Duncan like the Warriors did double Dirk.

What does this tell us? Dirk is better than Duncan? Duncan's teammates are better than Dirk's?

4cwebb · 05-09-2007, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twelli

Interesting that they don't double Duncan like the Warriors did double Dirk.

What does this tell us? Dirk is better than Duncan? Duncan's teammates are better than Dirk's?

If it tells us anything, I think it's the latter --- the Suns probably figured out that if they don't give Manu, Bowen, Finley and Barry "check the wind" time on their threes, they shoot a lower percentage. Timmy D is probably going to get his 25+ no matter what.

I like the adjustment the Suns made this game --- starting Kurt Thomas to help Amare avoid picking up early fouls (that hurt them in game 1). Suns only got beat on the glass by a few boards (most of which were of the offensive variety), and started hitting shots after the first quarter (during which the team shot 26% from the floor, including Nash & Amare combining to shoot 2-12).

Suns still need to steal a game in SA to get back to even, so they still have the pressure imho.

nashtymavsfan13 · 05-09-2007, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twelli

Interesting that they don't double Duncan like the Warriors did double Dirk.

What does this tell us? Dirk is better than Duncan? Duncan's teammates are better than Dirk's?

That the Spurs have better 3pt shooters that need to be covered, which is more important to the Suns than Duncan getting his 25 or more.

twelli · 05-09-2007, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

That the Spurs have better 3pt shooters that need to be covered, which is more important to the Suns than Duncan getting his 25 or more.

Does this mean we miss Finley as a spot-up three point threat?

He's been quite solid in the playoffs so far. Didn't he make 8 3-pointers in one game? Don't know about his defense, though...

Dtownsfinest · 05-09-2007, 08:22 AM

Yea the Suns can't afford to come off of the Spurs 3 point shooters. That's the difference between the Mavs and the Spurs on offense. Duncan first off is a threat when passing. Second, Finley is shooting 51% from 3, Horry 42%, Bowen 45% and they all throw up when given the chance. I don't know what's Barry's problem. Wasn't he one of the best 3 point shooters in the regular season? You wouldn't think it. I don't believe he's made a 3 in the playoffs.

Quote:

He's been quite solid in the playoffs so far. Didn't he make 8 3-pointers in one game? Don't know about his defense, though...

Yea he's been real solid. Shooting 51% from 3, putting up 15.7 a game. Behind Duncan and Parker, he's been there 3rd best player on the team. Definately one of the most consistent. I won't lie watching Finley in the regular season at the beginning of the year I thought he was finished. But seems like he's just been waiting for the playoffs to come around. His defense on Carmelo in the 1st round was great. He does have his inconsistency's on that defensive end but the Spurs team defense covers his problems up.

I don't know if anyone else noticed but Raja Bell was guarding him for a lot of the night last night. That shows how much D'Antoni feels Fin is still at threat.

The Crippler · 05-09-2007, 08:53 AM

Did anyone catch Bruce Bowen kicking amare in the back of the leg when he went up for that final dunk? Oh my, what a dirty play and Bowen should be suspended for a long time for intentionally trying to injure a player during the game (of course he won't). It's unreal how big of a bitch that dude is.

Dtownsfinest · 05-09-2007, 08:57 AM

Ginobilli is dirty as well. But the dirty ones are the ones with the rings. Hell Mahorn and Lambeer make these guys look like pansy's. I welcome dirty play but not to the extent where guys can get hurt. Tony took a crazy fall yesterday as well. Clearly an accident on Barbosa's part but it was crazy how that play went. People were just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

The Crippler · 05-09-2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Ginobilli is dirty as well. But the dirty ones are the ones with the rings. Hell Mahorn and Lambeer make these guys look like pansy's. I welcome dirty play but not to the extent where guys can get hurt. Tony took a crazy fall yesterday as well. Clearly an accident on Barbosa's part but it was crazy how that play went. People were just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I agree completely with some dirty play. But kicking someone in the achilles when he is going up for a dunk because you are frustrated at losing is crossing the line. I seriously hope this play gets reviewed as there is no place in the game for that BS. It's not the first time Bowen has used his legs/feet in a dirty manner as Ray Allen and Wally world will tell you...