The Official Dallas Cowboys 2010 Off-Season Thread

[Male30Dan]

It looks like Wade is coming back due to the good regular season finish and the home playoff win. I am not completely sure how I feel about that. He made some poor decisions against Minnesota but him staying also means we don't have to go through the hullabaloo that bringing in a new coach introduces. Sometimes that stability is very good for a franchise. Hopefully we can build on a good year and come back and win 3 total playoff games after securing home field throughout. That would be the first time any team had played all playoff games at home, considering next year the Super Bowl is going to be at Cowboys Stadium. How awesome would that be if we managed to make it that far? One can dream.

There is an ESPN insider reference to the Cowboys possibly being interested in Brandon Marshall, (feel free to post that btw), so that is a big name already being linked to Dallas. Many might think he is a young version of TO in all the bad ways but he is a 100-reception, 1000+ yard, 10-TD guy that could be paired up with Miles Austin if the Cowboys could make a trade work. He also had, if my memory serves me right, a 23-catch performance, which broke TO's old SF record of 20 catches in a single game.

The offensive line needs some work but the absolute best option may be in-house. If Columbo is replaced by a quicker Free and we draft someone to either be the future LT or the future RT with Free sliding to Flo's spot when he finally hangs them up, I think we would be better off long term, but I am not certain that we would be better next year. Don't let this past game completely influence your decision about Columbo - he was a mauler and very talented prior to his leg injury. I think if anything, him starting over Free was a poor coaching decision as he likely wasn't 100%. There was a lot of interior pressure too so we may need to look at upgrading the LG spot where Mr. Kosier plays. There are other options, but I haven't looked at all of the Free Agents. All I know is that we got pushed around and bullied all day long in the trenches and that just isn't a good thing.

So, in your opinion, what makes this team a sure-fire Super Bowl team next year? A combination of a great OL-heavy draft and a trade for Marshall? A better Coverage Nickel LB? Signing a couple of OL to replace a couple of guys? Moving Phillips to FB and getting rid of Cricket? Simply improving due to the youth getting better from this experience, (Bennett, Scandrick, Spencer, Jenkins, Free, etc...)? Replacing Hamlin at FS? Finding a kicker that can get back to where we WERE with Folk, (btw - I wonder if he is going to be given another opportunity to shake the mental crap)? Etc...

Is it all just a pipe dream with this team being mental midgets that will never consistently put together 3-4 playoff games of smart football when it matters most? We have a long time before the draft, free agency, and training camp so, discuss away...

[chumdawg]

One bullet that I think we have in the gun is that we have a pretty big sophomore class that never saw the field last year, due to injury. I am really interested in seeing what the Brewster kid can do on the o-line. I am *very* interested in seeing what the Hodge kid from TCU brings to the table. He is supposed to be a special teams maven, but he also might be that hybrid LB/safety that could wreak all kinds of havoc in the defensive backfield. After finiding out how good that TCU program really is, I'm beyond excited to see what Hodge does. And then you have the two Williams kids. And of course Victor Butler, who actually did play as a rookie and show some flashes of promise.

That's a good start. Yes, I would like to see OL addressed prominently in the draft. But if there is a playmaker at the safety position available where we draft in the first, I'm all over that. That's a missing link on our defense, I think. I like Sensabaugh, but I'm not really buying what Hamlin is selling.

Oh, and put me down as a "yes" on Marshall. He's worth the headache.

[Kirobaito]

Biggest need is O-line, by far. Too old and too mistake-prone. I loved what Free brought to the table and would like to see him start next year, either at LT or RT. But we need depth on the offensive line.

Secondly, we need a better nickel LB. It seemed half of the third and longs we gave up was due to Carpenter being unable to cover the tight end.

Outside of that, there's the obvious kicking situation.

This is an uncapped year. Does that mean that, in signing guys, you can give them absurd first-season salaries, with far less money owed in later years (therefore respecting whatever salary-cap situation the new CBA sets up?)?

[92bDad]

Not to sure about this, but gauging from various reports throughout the year, this Draft class' weakest position is OL.

Not sure what type of OL help the Cowboys can get through the draft this year.

Development will have to come from within and perhaps some serious off-season heat to the guys that are here, will push them to go through 2010/2011 with a new level of intensity. OL tend to be a prideful bunch, and they tend to get pissed off when they look bad. Let's hope that this is the case with the Cowboys OL...similar to the fire some players developed after getting drubbed by the Eagles in 2008...that carried them to a 3 game sweep of the Eagles.

Perhaps losing as they did in the playoffs will put a chip on the Cowboys shoulders that will keep them focused for not just one team, but the entire schedule and perhaps they will simply come out with no-excuses and push the Cowboys will onto the NFL!!!

I'm starting to get fired up for the 2010 season!!! Unfortunately, there will be a Media-Hype bandwagon twice as big as the Deathstar...the players need to ignore the hype and just play the game with an attitude.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Not to sure about this, but gauging from various reports throughout the year, this Draft class' weakest position is OL.

Not sure what type of OL help the Cowboys can get through the draft this year.

Obviously ALL mock drafts are utterly wrong, but just based on this one I found right off the bat, the draft looks pretty deep at the OL actually...

Check it out...

It looks pretty top heavy, (i.e. Dallas would have to trade up to get some of these big names), but there are also some guys later in the first round.

Gotta tell you though, that Cody pick, which is just a complete luxury pick, would actually be pretty amazing... Putting Cody at DT and Olshansky/Ratliff at the two DE spots while rotating a fresh Spears and Bowen in would give us great depth and talent. I don't think Spears would allow that to happen and I do believe he is a restricted free agent so we would probably just let him walk and devote that money else where so you probably wouldn't gain enough from that 1st round pick if we didn't keep the depth.

Anyway - that was way too much thought into something that WON'T happen. Too many needs elsewhere.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

One bullet that I think we have in the gun is that we have a pretty big sophomore class that never saw the field last year, due to injury. I am really interested in seeing what the Brewster kid can do on the o-line. I am *very* interested in seeing what the Hodge kid from TCU brings to the table. He is supposed to be a special teams maven, but he also might be that hybrid LB/safety that could wreak all kinds of havoc in the defensive backfield. After finiding out how good that TCU program really is, I'm beyond excited to see what Hodge does. And then you have the two Williams kids. And of course Victor Butler, who actually did play as a rookie and show some flashes of promise.

That's a good start. Yes, I would like to see OL addressed prominently in the draft. But if there is a playmaker at the safety position available where we draft in the first, I'm all over that. That's a missing link on our defense, I think. I like Sensabaugh, but I'm not really buying what Hamlin is selling.

Oh, and put me down as a "yes" on Marshall. He's worth the headache.

You are right about the sophomore class, but they were also pretty questionable picks and the draft in general was considered to be our worst in quite a while. With that said, I am also pretty excited to see what Brewster and the two Williams' guys have, but I don't expect a ton from the others. Here is me hoping obviously, but I am just being honest.

I am right there with you on Sensabaugh - he helped us a ton during the year but I would like to see someone with better cover skills at FS.

I would also consider moving Scandrick to the other CB spot and put Newman in Scandrick's spot. I only say that because I am SOOOO tired of his lack of aggression in jumping routes and in his inability to make big plays. He is rather solid, don't get me wrong, but man - anyone here that watches him play knows what I am talking about. He simply doesn't WANT the ball. I want another Jenkins and, while I don't know if Scandrick can become that, I think his youth and playing next to Mike could give him a great chance at developing that swagger... Also, this could allow Newman to move into the PR spot to give us a boost there since he isn't playing SUCH an important role, (though that is obviously still a big defensive role).

I really am subscribing to the talent that stepped up getting quite a bit better. Bennett has no where to go but up and has all of the tools. Guys like Jenkins and Scandrick ARE going to improve as they are FAR from their prime. Spencer has become a true beast and Ratliff is incredibly talented, (1st team All-Pro after all). Ware is Ware - enough said. Free AND Phillips both have great confidence heading into next year. Really, what are the age concerns on the defense? Brooking and Newman are the oldest right? Both were more than solid.

The offense, as stated before, has a lot of question marks. We need to pick a starting RB and try to give that person the majority of the carries. I hate this three-headed monster. I think you pick a starter and give the backup some carries, (15-20 carries for RB1 and 5-10 for RB2). The third RB is for an injury so stop stealing carries away from someone as talented as Jones so he can be happy. Give Felix a chance to be a feature back - that would be my opinion. If he proves too injury prone, fine, adapt and possibly go back to where we were. I would just love to see if he could be a poor man's Chris Johnson with his playmaking ability were he to get those elusive 20 carries. I think it would just give us the best chance for back-breaking plays, (ala Playoff game vs. Philly).

I think the offense also needs to either trade Roy or use him, period. No more BS... If he refuses to catch the ball and focus on making plays, get rid of him. I never imagined he would be this ineffective - I don't think anyone did. I would absolutely LOVE to have Brandon Marshall here and would give up our #1 plus some to get him. It would be pretty nice to have Miles, Roy, Marshall, and Witten on the field with Felix in the backfield. If you have to ship Roy out to keep good chemistry on the field, so be it, but I would prefer we don't do what the Rangers had to do in order to get Harden, (give up a SP to get a better SP - how about we keep both). Of course that is COMPLETELY a pipe dream because we can't have that much money tied up in the receiving corps. Hell, just the money that Roy makes is gonna make it hard to give Miles what he will be asking for.

Finally, again, obviously the OL needs work. I just don't know what to do there. You could move Free to LT and Davis to RT, (something many would HATE - but he is rather capable), and then sign a starting Guard or two. You could do the easy thing and keep the line JUST like it is, minus Kosier, who could be replaced with Free possibly, (it wouldn't be the first time a T has moved to G - see Davis), to get the best 5 on the field. We could also sign the best G available in FA and keep Free on the sidelines improving for one more year. So many options here - but improvement is absolutely needed.

The BIG piece is K - we HAVE to do something there, (who would have thought a year ago that we would have THIS problem). Rackers and Sebastian are FAs - but they likely both get signed quickly. Obviously this will need to be fixed heading into the season though. Maybe they tell Buehler to focus on kicking field goals all off season and to come in ready to hold the job down and maybe he does. Maybe Folk comes back without his issues. But again, this MUST be fixed.

[alby]

The O-line class this year is pretty weak. I say we go for the best player available with our early picks.

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

Originally Posted by alby

The O-line class this year is pretty weak. I say we go for the best player available with our early picks.

Brandon Marshall

[Underdog]

Newman Added To The Pro Bowl

link

The Cowboys now have seven players going to the Pro Bowl, as cornerback Terence Newman was added as an alternate on Wednesday.

Newman will make his second Pro Bowl appearance, replacing Arizona’s Antonio Rodgers-Cromartie, who was injured in the Cardinals’ playoff game against New Orleans.

Newman had three interceptions this season and recorded a career-high 21 pass deflections and three forced fumbles.

Many people thought Mike Jenkins had a better season than Newman, which certainly could be argued considering Jenkins had five interceptions and played very well down the stretch. But Newman also had a very good season as well and maybe his reputation and experience helped him land a spot as an alternate.

Looks like Tony Romo, Mike Jenkins and Flozell Adams might also be on the short list as alternates.

[mkat]

i think left tackle is THE biggest need of all of them. There are a few solid ones coming out in the draft this year, so that's a good thing. do not move Big to RT...he plays inside for a reason. leave him where he is. you're stronger at RT than you are at RG. If they get a future replacement for Flozell and keep Free at RT, I don't see Colombo beating him out for the job in training camp...although i think one problem with this team and its coaches/owner is that players who have played their position get to keep it even if they don't play well (BOTH roy williamses, Colombo coming off injury a few games back, etc).

as awesome as brandon marshall is, i hope he doesn't show up here...you're just asking for more TO-like trouble. this team really came together this year, and I'd hate to see that broken up b/c of a troublemaker.

could also use a future FS to replace hamlin in a year or two. i'll never be sold on hamlin having that position locked up. i think sensabaugh made more plays from the FS position this year than hamlin did (sensabaugh playing in the nickel, etc).

a young wide receiver should be drafted in the second or third round, although i'd be surprised given jerry's views on receivers at the top of a draft.

lastly, another inside LB. i think jason williams will be pretty solid when he gets it going, but if we can get rid of carpenter and replace him, i'm all for it.

oh, and if you can find a CB in the lower rounds of the draft in the vein of Scandrick, do it.

[mkat]

Originally Posted by Male28Dan

I think the offense also needs to either trade Roy or use him, period. No more BS... If he refuses to catch the ball and focus on making plays, get rid of him.

i don't think you could get a 7th round pick for Roy at this point. especially with his contract situation and all. that is a lot of dead money laying there because jerry got a sports-boner when they made the trade and paid the guy before he did anything.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by mkat

i think left tackle is THE biggest need of all of them. There are a few solid ones coming out in the draft this year, so that's a good thing. do not move Big to RT...he plays inside for a reason. leave him where he is. you're stronger at RT than you are at RG. If they get a future replacement for Flozell and keep Free at RT, I don't see Colombo beating him out for the job in training camp...<snip>
---------------------------------------------------------
could also use a future FS to replace hamlin in a year or two. i'll never be sold on hamlin having that position locked up. i think sensabaugh made more plays from the FS position this year than hamlin did (sensabaugh playing in the nickel, etc).

a young wide receiver should be drafted in the second or third round, although i'd be surprised given jerry's views on receivers at the top of a draft.

lastly, another inside LB. i think jason williams will be pretty solid when he gets it going, but if we can get rid of carpenter and replace him, i'm all for it.
<snip>

Free is a LT. He is athletic enough to protect the backside. I am not sure if he is strong enough yet though. Adams problems right now is that his feet are getting slower against the excellent speed rushers. Players like Allen from the Vikings are quick and strong....Flo didn't have a big issue because Allen didn't have elite speed, Free did because Allen was just flat stronger than he was.

I expect Free to move permanently to the left side shortly. Columbo was the best offensive lineman they had until his injury, and while Free was a good replacement, he is no where near the mauler that Columbo is when healthy. Free and Columbo I expect to be the bookends for several more years -- and Dallas will be fine with them there -- depending on injury.

Dallas really needs a stretch the field WR, and a ball hawking FS. Another linebacker would definitely help as well.

[Male30Dan]

Phillips gets 3-year extension.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Male28Dan

Phillips gets 3-year extension.

So if I understand this correctly, they guaranteed next season then added 2 more, signing him through 2012?

Looks like we locked down our defensive coordinator for the next few seasons.

How long does Garrett's contract run?

[Underdog]

It’s only puppet love for Wade Phillips
by Randy Galloway

link

It’s January, and love is in the air.

Puppet love. Jerry’s heart goes pitter-patter, blowing up the EKG machine.

Of all the guys over the last 20 years who have come and gone as a head coach for the Cowboys, Mr. Jones has definitely found his perfect partner, with strings attached to all body parts.

Therefore, it was no surprise, and hasn’t been news for a month now, that Wade Phillips will be coming back next season with the same title. Half-a-head coach in charge of defense.

Gotta admit, however, two MORE years added on Wade’s new contract, making it a total of three, did floor me. Nothing Jones does, football-wise, should ever joust a veteran observer, but then again, never underestimate the power of love.

On behalf of Wade, however, let me say this:

Jerry, stop cheating on your main squeeze.

If Coach Phillips is that important to you, and since you are willing to make it a long-term continuing commitment, then, Jerry, cut out the middle man.

Fire Jason Garrett immediately.

(I can now hear the noisy applause from Weatherford to Watauga. You tell ’em, boy.)

Actually, I think Garrett had his best season yet as offensive coordinator, even if quick-pitch-right-to-Barber on Sunday turned out to be his dumbest play-call of the year.

Over 18 games, we can all take issue with anyone’s play-calling — and with Garrett, we did — but along with home plate umpire, it’s the biggest second-guess process in all of sports.

Tony Romo. That’s what Garrett really got right. Going into this season, the No. 1 priority for Jason was pushing Romo onward and upward as a quarterback.

No argument, that happened. It’s still a work in progress, but some progress was seen. As opposed to last season.

Miles Austin also happened. On the other side of the ball, if Wade gets credit for Jenkins, Spencer, Brooking, etc., then Miles becomes Jason’s coup, albeit a late coup. Austin didn’t start until the fifth game, remember.

But fire Garrett anyway, pay off the $3 million he’s owed next season, and that allows Phillips the opportunity to become a real head coach.

A new three-year commitment for Wade should include the clause that Phillips, not Jerry, will hire a new offensive coordinator who answers to Phillips, not Jerry.

In the weird arrangement of the last three years, Garrett is the offensive head coach answering only to Jerry.

With that situation, Jones just had his most successful season in 13 years. But you also had this embarrassing end of the first half exchange Sunday between Fox reporter Pam Oliver and Phillips:

Pam: "What changes do you need to make?"

Wade: "We’re fine."

Pam: "But what about the heavy pressure on Romo?"

Wade: "Well, we’re doing the same thing to them."

Really? The score was 17-3. Not exactly either "fine" or "the same thing." But this is a "head coach" who has no say about offense, unless it’s to go-for-it on fourth down or try a 48-yard field goal. Then he screwed that up.

Normal circumstances would suggest Wade should have gone to the locker room, then screamed at his offensive coordinator, who would then scream at Hudson Houck, the line coach, and all three — head coach, offensive coordinator, line coach — would then be screaming at the five guys up front.

From what I hear, not one coaching voice was raised in the halftime scene in Minneapolis.

The head coach is concerned only with defense, and the offensive coordinator was, I guess, scheming up "adjustments." But up-front, when their four consistently whips your five, adjustments are hard to come by.

And for the Cowboys, strong head coaches will be impossible to come by in the future.

The puppet route has finally paid some dividends for Jerry (Barry Switzer doesn’t count). The season was a success, at least I think it was, which might not be the opinion of many fans. But to consider where the franchise was at the end of last season, and where it is today, that is success.

We can all debate if Wade is the right head coach to take it another step, then another step.

My answer: No. No way.

Your answer: (Fill in the blanks.)

Jerry’s answer: Yes.

Jerry wins.

But with that, and with a new three-year contract on the way, then the owner should also at least put a little muscle into the position of head coach.

Wade will still puppet-up for Jerry, but allow him to do it as a full-time head coach. Even when Chan Gailey was hired as head coach/offensive coordinator in Buffalo this week, he spent part of his media conference talking about the merits of a 3-4 defense as opposed to a 4-3.

In the two years he was Jerry’s head coach here, I don’t think I ever heard Chan mention defense. Buffalo may be an impossible job, but at least it’s a franchise, like most of the other 30 in the NFL, giving the head coach a full-set of teeth. Only not at Valley Ranch, of course.

Fire Jason Garrett.

Sorry, Jason. You don’t deserve that, but I’m just trying to be a team player here in the January of love.

.

[Male30Dan]

Looks like the initial report was wrong... Only 2 total years now...

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

Didn't really want to make an entire thread about this, so picked this thread as the landing point.

Wife of former Cowboy Novacek found dead in home

Feb. 1, 2010
CBSSports.com wire reports
BURLESON, Texas -- The wife of former Dallas Cowboys tight end Jay Novacek has been found dead in a home.

Burleson spokeswoman Sally Ellertson says police in the Fort Worth suburb responded to a call of a possible suicide early Monday.

The Tarrant County medical examiner identified the woman as 45-year-old LeAnne Novacek, 45, whose home address was listed in the nearby town of Joshua.

Authorities haven't said how she died but are investigating.

Jay Novacek starred for the Cowboys in 1990-96 and was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame last summer.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/1...d-dead-in-home

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Free is a LT. He is athletic enough to protect the backside. I am not sure if he is strong enough yet though. Adams problems right now is that his feet are getting slower against the excellent speed rushers. Players like Allen from the Vikings are quick and strong....Flo didn't have a big issue because Allen didn't have elite speed, Free did because Allen was just flat stronger than he was.

I expect Free to move permanently to the left side shortly. Columbo was the best offensive lineman they had until his injury, and while Free was a good replacement, he is no where near the mauler that Columbo is when healthy. Free and Columbo I expect to be the bookends for several more years -- and Dallas will be fine with them there -- depending on injury.

Dallas really needs a stretch the field WR, and a ball hawking FS. Another linebacker would definitely help as well.

A ball hawking FS? Aren't there only 3 in the whole NFL? Good luck finding that lol. I actually wouldn't mind seeing the same team return just draft and get younger. A offensive linemen whether its a tackle or guard needs to be taking that's for sure.

[tony320]

"Gwyneth wants to learn insanity workout calendar, she's disciplined and she doesn't have a big ego. She knows if she want the results, she has to do it. For seven years, six days a week, that girl has done her workout!"
P90X Nutrition Plan

[92bDad]

Prayers go out for the Novacek family.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by tony320

Flozell is the only guy on the team who is getting old...we need a bad ass tackle to take his place...

we could use another DE too though...true

if Tayor Mays still around, I am cool with that also...

Taylor Mays coverage skills suck though. I'd like to go into a different direction with safety. And wasn't our first pick last season a left tackle? Brewster? They seem to like him.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Taylor Mays coverage skills suck though. I'd like to go into a different direction with safety. And wasn't our first pick last season a left tackle? Brewster? They seem to like him.

Hamlin was way overpaid, and Sensabaugh was avg at best, IMO this last year.

Defensively they were stout against the run, except in short yardage, and outside of a large NT to move Ratliff over on short yardage stuff, I just don't think you get much better across the D-line.

Maybe draft a LB for either of the inside backers, but you have a couple from last year draft that may be fine.

CB seems OK, and no need to draft high.

Safety is a concern.

OL is needy for depth, but not sure you want to draft real high.
TE is set.
RB is set.
QB is set.
WR -- maybe, but I question drafting high here.

So Safety, OL, or WR seem to be the high pick(s) -- and really safety seems like the best bet as low as they are drafting.

Who would you go with?

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Hamlin was way overpaid, and Sensabaugh was avg at best, IMO this last year.

Defensively they were stout against the run, except in short yardage, and outside of a large NT to move Ratliff over on short yardage stuff, I just don't think you get much better across the D-line.

Maybe draft a LB for either of the inside backers, but you have a couple from last year draft that may be fine.

CB seems OK, and no need to draft high.

Safety is a concern.

OL is needy for depth, but not sure you want to draft real high.
TE is set.
RB is set.
QB is set.
WR -- maybe, but I question drafting high here.

So Safety, OL, or WR seem to be the high pick(s) -- and really safety seems like the best bet as low as they are drafting.

Who would you go with?

OL first round unless BPA is a heck of a value pick. I could also see a dominant NT being picked up in the first to shift Ratliff over to Spears' spot, as you hinted at.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Male28Dan

OL first round unless BPA is a heck of a value pick. I could also see a dominant NT being picked up in the first to shift Ratliff over to Spears' spot, as you hinted at.

If Free and Brewster (3rd rounder last year-torn pec) can play, and Flo and Columbo are back....where are you going to put a 1st round OL? Tackes really are the only OL that rate 1st round. Not sure what their thinking is on the current group or if they think they could draft someone that would start right now.

Seems like most really good inside players (guard, centers) are 2nd and lower.

Jerry hates drafting a WR in the first because they are such a high bust rate.
(PS: I despise Texas -- but Jordan Shipley late in the 2nd or 3rd would be sweet)

That leaves safety --- if the best safety prospect falls down in the 20's where Dallas drafts?

I think they should build the board, and draft from it, but how the board is set up is a huge subject. BPA - Need - Injury Concerns - Talent they played against - Smarts - Production - Off Field issues/Background, IMO all need to be figured in to the board.

[92bDad]

Nees should never play into the board set up.

I'm of the opinion that you set up your board by ranking the players and that you draft by best player available, with very very minor exceptions.

The need plays a role, after the board has been established.

Now if a position you need has a player ranked a couple below your spot...and he's available when your time is up...then you have to study the situation at that moment.

Do you draft the player you think will help a few slots ahead of what you felt his value was, or do you try and trade down, in hopes of picking up a pick or two and hope that the player is still available in a later slot?

The problem with drafting for need is that you get the prime example player such as Quincy Carter...you reach for a player...which given what the draft is, these are unproven poker chips and you hope that one of them will pay out.

If your the Cowboys and at your spot in the 1st round is the next Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson...do you draft him, knowing you already have 3 quality RB's? My answer, is that if they are the best player available...YES!!!

Analyze the players coming into the draft first, then analyze your needs...otherwise, if you look at needs first, it may influence how you judge the players coming out.

Let's not pull a Barry Switzer and draft back-ups...we must always be drafting players because we believe they can start. It will either push the players you have to get better, or they will get beat out by someone who IS better.

That being said, I place HIGH values on OL and DL first, LB's are next...then an impact S who can actually QB the defense. As for the CB, QB's WR's, RB's and TE's...They are mixed in the "Skill" positions and again, I go with BPA, regardless of what the needs on my team are.

Keep in mind that the skill positions, can't function without a strong OL, DL or LB's!!! Case in point...Romo got crushed by the Vikings, because of the OL breakdown...thus the RB's WR's or TE's were limited.

Same on the Defensive side...the Vikings managed to control our DL and LB's a bit better and thus provided holes to run through, and time for Favre to get what he needed.

The more time an offensive player has to make a play, the more vulnerable our DB's become.

It's all about the big guys up front...without them, there are no skill player highlights!!!

[dalmations202]

My board would not be set up even close to that.

Rank the top 500 by player regardless of position. #1 gets 500 pts , #500 gets 1pt.
Rank the needs of the team -- say a exceptional need gets 200 pts if they are a QB but a guard gets 100 pts if you are looking three years out.
Each player gets X number of points based up Injury Concerns - Talent they played against - Smarts - Production - Off Field issues/Background.

Now you have accommodated for all the X factors -- then you put the one with the most pts on top of the board, and work your way down. Draft based upon the board. You might end up with three OL or you might have to make a minor adj to the board as you have already pick two OL and you don't want another, but in general you don't have to question then about rest --- you have already taken into consideration the intangibles and the needs.

In your scenerio, let's say Stephen Jackson is there, and so is a TE you rate about that good, but you need a OL. So you draft Stephen Jackson, and then he sits behind Barber and Jones and Choice is already mad because he doesn't get enough carries. You might have a good back, but Tony is still getting killed because you don't have anyone to block for him because you took the best player, and didn't account for need.

All of it has to be taken into account, IMO. You don't want to lose out on a great talent, but you don't want to add players that will never see the field either.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

If Free and Brewster (3rd rounder last year-torn pec) can play, and Flo and Columbo are back....where are you going to put a 1st round OL? Tackes really are the only OL that rate 1st round. Not sure what their thinking is on the current group or if they think they could draft someone that would start right now.

Seems like most really good inside players (guard, centers) are 2nd and lower.

Jerry hates drafting a WR in the first because they are such a high bust rate.
(PS: I despise Texas -- but Jordan Shipley late in the 2nd or 3rd would be sweet)

That leaves safety --- if the best safety prospect falls down in the 20's where Dallas drafts?

I think they should build the board, and draft from it, but how the board is set up is a huge subject. BPA - Need - Injury Concerns - Talent they played against - Smarts - Production - Off Field issues/Background, IMO all need to be figured in to the board.

First of all, Flo being back is NOT a certainty. If he doesn't come back and Free takes his spot, who is behind them on the depth chart? And yeah, Brewster could be good, or he could be a bust. Depth on the OL is critical.

Even if Flo returns, he won't be here for more than 1-2 years. So now is the time to draft someone to come in and push him for playing time, split the snaps with him, and prepare him for the big time.

I personally believe, within 2 to MAYBE 3 years, LT, LG, and RT are all changing. We only have one guy that has any sort of a proven track record to replace those 3 positions. We need more depth and hope a guy like Brewster develops.

But yeah, the needs are pretty straight forward:

1-2 Mauling OL
1 Beefy NT
1 Ball-Hawk FS
1 Coverage ILB
1 Speedy WR
1 Accurate K
1 KR/PR Specialist

I think several of those are addressed outside of the draft but those are our immediate needs. You could throw TE in there as well since Phillips has the inside track at FB along with Anderson's recent legal issues.

Also keep in mind regarding Guards being taken in the 2nd round that we won a playoff game and will be drafting near the end of the 1st. A lot of the better guards are going to be off the board late in the 2nd. I am not necessarily saying that we should take a guard with the 1st pick - I am just saying that this is something to think about.

Like Dad said, here is where you could find yourself reaching and that is why I tend to lean towards BPA as well; however, needs must be taken into account when you draft or you become weak in critical areas and very strong in others. You typically aren't going to win a SuperBowl if you are weak in critical areas.

[92bDad]

Dalmation,

I understand that you have to look at need...but be very careful drafting based on need.

You could skip the next "Great" player in order to draft the next great "NEED BUST"

In my scenerio, I now have options...if I draft the next Great RB, even when I have a stable of them...but I don't feel that anyone else on the board is anywhere near what this RB is...then I take the RB and begin to work deals.

Maybe the emotion of draft sets up an opportunity to trade one of my RB's for a 1st Rounder next year...imagine getting that for Barber, who is about to hit a plateau...while putting another stud in the stable?

If I have an OL that is rated on my board close to the Stud RB...basically, if my pick is at 24 and I have a RB rated at 23 and an OL rated at 25...then I look at my need, and chances are I go with the OL.

But If I have a RB rated at #5 and an OL rated at #30 with both available at 24...First I look to see if I can make any deals before I pick...

Of course, in my rankings I would have some type of criteria in terms of expectations...just because someone is ranked #5 doesn't mean squat if the overall perception of the draft class is extremely low. I also have to ask, why would a #5 slip so far down the board.

Again need plays a factor, but it can not overule the best player available. Use my needs to maneuver around on Draft day...but I must stick true to the board.

Keep in mind, under the Barry, Chan, Campo days...we drafted for NEED and what type of players did that get us?

Landry had a Best Player Available mentality, as did Johnson.

I tend to believe that Parcells as much as I hate the guy, had the same BPA mentality.

Phillips appears to be of this mindset.

Not sure yet about the GM...he seems to understand this concept and then once in a while appears to let some hype or personal emotion get in the way of sound judgement.

Throughout the NFL history, teams that draft based on NEED are teams that consistantly wind up on the bottom half of the records, and thus continue to have High Draft picks...to many these picks are traded away to better team/organizations.

That reminds me, didn't during the Cowboys phase of drafting for need, trade away a couple of #1 picks for Galloway...didn't something funky happen with regards to trading for Roy Williams...

Needs can be such a bitch and they tend to cloud ones judgement...but they are there and once in a blue moon...a squirrel finds a nut.

Fortunately, none of us here are part of the real think tank behind the Cowboys. Hopefully those in the real think tank will figure things out and help this Organization re-claim it's Championship legacy!!!

[dalmations202]

Johnson from what I have read worked off of a numbers game like I described. In fact that is where I first read about the way he did it. Not sure where he got it from and it may have been around for a long, long time, but I am fairly certain that is where I got it from.

Let's back up a little though. I didn't say don't draft for BPA -- BPA is the overriding and most important part of it, but many don't put a numerical value to it, they just put them into sections. These players have 1st round grade, these a second, these a third --- then they draft the highest on the list. This gets them in trouble when they have a great OL and the first four they pick are all OL.

Weighting the points by needs keeps you always drafting what you consider the BPA while still drafting for a need. It also allows for you taking into consideration the injuries, the competition, the off-field stuff.

Lets say player 1 is a great WR -- he gets 500 pts., you need a WR 200 pts, position of importance 100 pts, but is dumb as a box of rocks, has not work ethic, played in the girls powder puff league, and has public-ally stated he loves smoking dope. Then player 2 may be the better choice, even if he is slightly under and plays a different position. Player 1 gets 800 pts, and might be a GREAT choice in the third round, but not the first.

This system would allow you to decide what is important to your club based upon the values of your club. If you have an extremely complex offense, maybe your points weight more on intelligence, maybe you just want guys that have played in the big conferences, maybe off-field is extremely important because of the locker room.

It just keeps guys in line when you have the chance to draft.
Add to that the value of the position you are drafting at, and it helps determine if you should be taking the guy or dealing out of it.

[92bDad]

I would agree, using a point system has strong merit.

It appears we have the same thought process, just different ways of communicating it.

I'm of the opinion that you base your board on a variety of topics.

Each having it's own priority. Once you've made your initial list of top 500 players, then you begin to reshuffle those players based on the rest of the criteria.

What's the players mental make-up?
What's the players Character?
What's the intel that you've uncovered from his teammates?
What's the intel from his coaches?
What's his positives?
What's his negatives?
What's his upside?
What's the potential pitfalls?
How does he fit in with the vision of our coach today?
How does his personality mesh with our teams?
What are his views on life and other stuff?
How does his skill set/position fit in with our teams needs for today and in the future?

The list goes on and on.

Again, I would make a list and rate them from 1-500 using information that answers these questions. Basically doing all my homework before the final exam on Draft day.

I would also do my best to properly identify the gaps from one player to another.

For example, using your system of assigning a point value. If my #50 player had 400 points of more value than the #51 player...while the #51 player only had 2 points more value than the #52 player. Then on draft day it's a bit more effecient to make trade deals based on numbers and avoiding draft day emotions.

It's all about playing the odds, and with a well defined board system, you give the organization a possibility of success.

This also can help a team to find a Zach Thomas, who may not be of ideal size/speed...but witht he football intangables, may have a higher value and thus give you the opportunity to draft him when he is available at where you ranked him.

It also would keep a Quincy Carter from being a reach.

My point on 'Need based' , that some folks put toooo much value/weight in team need. Yes it's important and should be a factor on draft research decision, but should not be an overwhelming factor that a team passes up on a better player.

Hopefully the Cowboys Scouting department has done what they needed to do, in order for the Cowboys Draft Day braintrust to pick the best valued players when their turn comes up.

[Underdog]

Screw a "system" - drafting is an organic process, something you have to feel out on a very individual basis; player-by-player, position-by-position, team-by-team.

It's an art, not a science...

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Screw a "system" - drafting is an organic process, something you have to feel out on a very individual basis; player-by-player, position-by-position, team-by-team.

It's an art, not a science...

For the sake of argument.

Why pay for a scouting department then? Just read Kiper and roll the dice -- you would have just as good of luck.............and save lots of money on salaries.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

For the sake of argument.

Why pay for a scouting department then? Just read Kiper and roll the dice -- you would have just as good of luck.............and save lots of money on salaries.

I never said they shouldn't do their research - art and science can use the same tools, it's just a different approach.

You don't simply assign number values to a player and pick 'em - good picks come from the gut (not to mention that any type of numbers system only works in a vacuum.)


"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth" - Mike Tyson

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I never said they shouldn't do their research - art and science can use the same tools, it's just a different approach.

You don't simply assign number values to a player and pick 'em - good picks come from the gut (not to mention that any type of numbers system only works in a vacuum.)


"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth" - Mike Tyson

For the sake of argument, and I'd rather do this than work right now.

But what if you have acid indigestion that day. That pick from the gut might have just been the pepperoni talking. It is a long couple of days. Wasn't Quincy Carter a gut thing?

Oh yea -- Buster Douglas had a plan -- stay in the ring and wear big Mike out. And his research and plan worked even when he got punched in the mouth. Many plans work great if you put the time and effort into them.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

For the sake of argument, and I'd rather do this than work right now.

But what if you have acid indigestion that day. That pick from the gut might have just been the pepperoni talking. It is a long couple of days. Wasn't Quincy Carter a gut thing?

Was Quincy Carter a gut decision? Are you sure he wasn't part of a numbers system? He was drafted based on need.

You can do all the research in the world, create all the spreadsheets and charts you want, but you might be forced to change (or abandon) your plan quickly when names start flying off the board (especially if your team has needs.)

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Was Quincy Carter a gut decision? Are you sure he wasn't part of a numbers system? He was drafted based on need.

You can do all the research in the world, create all the spreadsheets and charts you want, but you might be forced to change (or abandon) your plan quickly when names start flying off the board (especially if your team has needs.)

I agree with the "have to be fluid" part of it.

I also think that you draft based on weighted BPA -- and needs come from FA.

A points system just allows you to try and take some of the as Bill said "red herring players" out of it. It also allows you to actually utilize the strengths of the guys you hire.

With that said, you are still using your "gut" when you determine how much to weight the "areas" you give the points to - and when you determine the level points you give the players. It isn't anywhere near an exact science or let's face it Austin and Romo would have at least been drafted. They didn't get on the board via, gut, science or any other reason other than someone said -- I'll take a chance after the draft -- and both were in the ProBowl this year.

Bills system got the Cowboys Jacob Rogers, but also Demarcus Ware.
Toms system got the Cowboys Tony Dorsett, but also Rod Hill.
Jimmy got 47 people to choose from with all the draft picks he got from the Hershal trade.

Dallas has missed lots of players, and hit on many of them.

I just like the weighted number way, and weigh it against the value of where you are picking.

[mkat]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I never said they shouldn't do their research - art and science can use the same tools, it's just a different approach.

You don't simply assign number values to a player and pick 'em - good picks come from the gut (not to mention that any type of numbers system only works in a vacuum.)

I dunno. Landry and Gil Brandt kind of made scouting a science and it worked out pretty well for them. I think there's a comfortable middle somewhere in there, but just saying "i have a gut feeling this guy's gonna be good" gets you fired.

[mkat]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Bills system got the Cowboys Jacob Rogers, but also Demarcus Ware.

technically jerry's system got ware. bill was gonna take spears there.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mkat

I dunno. Landry and Gil Brandt kind of made scouting a science and it worked out pretty well for them. I think there's a comfortable middle somewhere in there, but just saying "i have a gut feeling this guy's gonna be good" gets you fired.

Well, yeah, simply slapping some paint on a canvas doesn't make you an artist either. There's always a certain level of science behind any art form, but there really isn't an art to scientific formulas.

I'm only arguing against following a rigid mathematical template.

[Windmill360]

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