Cowboys vs Carolina - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Just211 · 10-13-2002, 05:28 PM

Damn glad they pulled that out of their ass. Quincy was stinking it up until the last two drives. It wasn't all his fault, but he would have taken the blame. I wish the O-line would get their shit together. They haven't been able to run block all season, but to give up all those sacks and pressure, thats crap. I know CAR is the #1 D, but I thought they were going to lay an egg.

Quincy didn't play great, but he shows that he can put the bad stuff behind him, and step up to win. Especially after last weeks let down.

Cowboy fans should be glad they won, because that lose might have spelled disaster for the rest of the season. Campo would be one step closer to the door, and the Quincy haters would have tore him up.

Drbio · 10-13-2002, 06:47 PM

Carter did very well on the last two drives....he just didn't do crap before that. He is inconsistent. He probably will be all season. A nice win nonetheless. Bryant made a great catch.

FINtastic- whatever your obsession is with trying to prove me wrong in every thread...get over it as it isn't going to happen. The Carolina defensive line gets the credit today. The offensive line played fine early and then the defensive front took over the game. They are clearly not the best line in the league, but noone said they were. Carter was pathetic for 3 and a half quarters plus...then he pulled that pass to galloway out of ass (it should have picked off) and then he did his job and led a really nice final drive. He still isn't doing a whole lot to show the fans he is a good NFL QB. He has to get a shitload better than today or he will still be labelled as a suck player.

Just211 · 10-13-2002, 06:57 PM

<< He still isn't doing a whole lot to show the fans he is a good NFL QB. >>

He isn't showing YOU DOc. A lot of other people have faith in him. ALL QB's have days like these, where the D is all over you and nothing seems to go right. But Quincy didn't let it effect him, and kept his composure and came back to win. You have to remember he still doesn't the help of a running game, or ( in most cases ) enough time to drop further than a 3 step drop. He is doing a lot more than I would have expected considering he IS the Offense right now. I'm not saying he has arrived, but he is doing good so far, and will improve more as the team improves, particularly the O line.

Drbio · 10-13-2002, 07:02 PM

The stadium full of booing fans today likely supports that huh Just211? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

He did well for one series. Please do not annoint him as some kind of star because he sucked all day, got a td on a pass that should have been intercepted, and then played one good set of downs. I gave him his props for today, but most longtime fans are very much down on him right now. Read teh papers, listen to the talk shows, go to the games and you will see that. Maybe most in this forum feel good about him, but that is not representative of the actual feeling of the fanship in general.

Just211 · 10-13-2002, 07:15 PM

Fans that boo their own players are usually iggnorant pricks, most talks shows I've heard are supporting him as far as saying he is doing good, and I wasn't annointing him. I'm saying he is doing good, and a 2nd year QB has ups and downs, and he was able to keep it together during one of his downs and pull out a win. It doesn't make him the saviour, but I think he's doing good for a team with a horrid line and a non-existant running game.

I think even you would admit that you didn't expect for Quincy to be carrying the Offense. All plans were to RUN, RUN, RUN and let Quincy manage the game. Now Quincy has to do everything. Most people would expect to be 0-6 in this situation. Wait until he gets some help , and then he'll develop into a good QB. Right now he is slightly above average.

Drbio · 10-13-2002, 07:23 PM

Quincy does NOT carry this offense. He played well for one series today...that is hardly carrying the offense. I don't want to belittle his last minute efforts, because the bottom line is that he directed the team to a win late. But please...he is nowhere near above average at this point. Maybe he will be in a year or three...maybe not, but right now he is a struggling below average player.

As for the booing fans thing...a fan that buys a ticket and pays for the players salaries can boo if they want to IMO. As long as they keep it clean and reasonable. If they just boo that is their right.

Just211 · 10-13-2002, 07:26 PM

by carrying the offense, I mean if Quincy doesn't do it with his arm or legs, than it doesn't get done. The running game isn't doing anything.
And he is carrying it, that is why it is struggling. No 2nd year QB can lead a team on his own.

Just211 · 10-13-2002, 07:50 PM

One more thing to consider about Quincy's performance against Carolina's defense. Here are the other QB's lines against the Panthers D.
.............................................Ratin g Sacked
REDMAN 20/34 218 1TD 1INT 75.37 2
DET QB's 12/30 106 0TD 2INT 22.36 6
Culpepper 19/30 191 1TD 4INT 52.92 5
Favre 18/32 200 1TD 1INT 72.36 4
Plummer 18/40 221 1TD 1INT 60.52 1
Carter 15/32 225 2TD 1INT 78.25 7

Carter was pressured the Most, yet threw for the most yards, TD's, and had the highest rating. Carolina's D is #1 for a reason, and a lot of QB's have struggled against them. Be happy Quincy had the composure and enough luck to get a win

Drbio · 10-13-2002, 07:54 PM

the key there is luck....if Carter isn't lucky, that td to Galloway is picked off and run back for a ton of yards. His line then falls to 1 TD and 2 INT's with 160 yards. In reality, he probably throws no TD's as a result since the second td came at the end of the game. Who knows...I'm glad they won...that's all that matters at this point.

FINtastic · 10-13-2002, 08:09 PM

"The offensive line played fine early and then the defensive front took over the game. They are clearly not the best line in the league, but noone said they were."

The O line was supposed to be the staple of the offense this year. All preseason everyone talked about how good this line was and how big they were. They said they might start out kind of slow since they were injured for a while. They are the absolutely dreadful. To allow 7 sacks is a disgrace. If Quincy wasn't the mobile QB he is, then it could have easily been 10. There has been absolutely no run game all season and the number of losses on running plays is pitiful. Give the Cowboys an average O Line and I think a lot of our offensive woes would disappear, and Quincy as well as the running game would look much better.

Just211 · 10-13-2002, 08:22 PM

Enough about the Offense, how about the Defense. I know Carolina isn't the best Offensive team, but the Defense was banged up and still kept the Cowboys within striking distance. That is the kinda Defense Dallas expected to have, and they showed up today.

FINtastic · 10-13-2002, 08:30 PM

drbio - what's your obsession with trying to find a mistake in everything that Quincy does instead of passing the blame around where it is deserved. You're opinions are incredibly biased. You said Kelvin Garmon is a potential all-pro, when I have never ever heard anyone say that he would amount to any thing better than an average offensive lineman. You also for some reason have an extreme hatred for Quincy. You have determined that he is sorry for whatever reason, and you seem to determined to prove that your opinion is right. You actually took the time one game to break down every bad play (and even a few of the good ones, where you thought there was a mistake) of Quincy's in the first half. You get very defensive if anyone calls you out on your hatred of Quincy. Now, I happen to be a huge Quincy fan, which is why we're clashing right now. I think Quincy is a stand-up guy. He is great in the community, he has fun on the football field, he seems to be very smart, he has a great work ethic, and he is very coachable. I want to see guys like him succeed. He may not be the best football player, but he is getting the job done right now, and he seems to be improving each week. All that Quincy fans like me are asking for is just to give Quincy a chance. I don't ask you to call him the second coming of Roger Staubach or anything, but I just hate seeing him ripped all of the time for every tiny mistake. But unfortunately most fans in Dallas seem intent on ripping him mercilessly.

FINtastic · 10-13-2002, 08:33 PM

I thought the defense played very good today. They only TD they allowed today was the one where Carolina got the ball on the Dallas 30.

LonestarROB · 10-13-2002, 09:17 PM

jmho but I think Q is in a lose lose situation with Doc. No matter what Q does, it's never gonna be good enough in his(Doc's) eyes imo.

Not taken a shot at you or anything Doc, that's just the impression I get from reading your posts. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Q played great in the 1st quarter, yeah he kinda stunk it up in the 2nd and 3rd but got the job done in the 4th. Period!

Great win for the Boys.

dude1394 · 10-13-2002, 09:24 PM

<< the key there is luck....if Carter isn't lucky, that td to Galloway is picked off and run back for a ton of yards. His line then falls to 1 TD and 2 INT's with 160 yards. In reality, he probably throws no TD's as a result since the second td came at the end of the game. Who knows...I'm glad they won...that's all that matters at this point. >>

Now, now... .luck this, luck that. If he had been lucky last week and a gust of wind slows down his throw, he's a hero then as well. He did what he did...You have to at least give him the stats or the arguments go either way.

dude1394 · 10-13-2002, 09:26 PM

[qthe number of losses on running plays is pitiful. .[/i] >>

This is very, very,very telling. Go back and look at the stats for this week as well as last week. The other team has no runs for losses and the cowboys have about 4-5 per game. Drive killers...

dude1394 · 10-13-2002, 09:34 PM

thought the defense played pretty well with roy out, darren banged up and one of the cornerbacks out. But very,very little pressure on the qb, a better set of qbs would have had their way with the boys today I believe. I give them props for hanging in there, but they have some room for improvement.

So they played ok, but carolina only has 15 yards per game more than dallas. Pretty mediocre and then their qb is out.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-13-2002, 09:36 PM

Well that throw that Quincy Carter got wouldnt have been picked because they guy jumped and it tipped from his fingers. If the guy istn there Galloway might have to dive for it. Anyway we can sit here all day and talk about how much luck Quincy whould have had but the problem is he didnt. He made the passes and they were completed. I agree ROB, but unfortunaetly listening to the ticket today BIO is just another one of those guys that are out there. People say Quincy hasnt showed anything well today he showed me he can carry the Cowboys offesne and when the game which he did.

BTW, in a previous post I didnt blame the Cowboys OLINe. Well I do. Its horrible im sorry to say. Panthers dline is that damn good but the effort I saw from Larry and others proved to me that someone is hurt or they just suck. Other than Gurode and Allen there is no one on this offensive line that would start for any other teams and Allen is playing liek shit also. ITs amazing what the Cowboys offense is doing now with this o-line but those 7 sacks Q got is nothing unfamiliar it is goin to happen I just wanna know why arent Panthers 6-0 right now with that D.

Drbio · 10-13-2002, 09:45 PM

blah blah blah...

it's all opinion. some of you like him, some of us realize he sucks. it's a circular argument. I swear some of you must be in love with him based on your posts. I do not like his effort at QB. I have nothing against him personally, but I just don't see him being a star. If he makes it...I will post a retraction, but that isn't likely to occur. He won't make it.

dude1394 · 10-13-2002, 09:46 PM

<< I just wanna know why arent Panthers 6-0 right now with that D >>

Because they only get more than 15 yards a game than the cowboys do.

LonestarROB · 10-13-2002, 10:57 PM

For the record, I am in no way saying that Q will be a star, but he most definitly deserves more credit then some are willing to give.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

FINtastic · 10-13-2002, 11:06 PM

Rob, I don't think anyone has said he will be a star. What the pro Quincy faction wants is what Dale Hansen said tonight:

(a paraphrase since I can't remember the exact wording off the top of my head) "I was doing the Ticket post-game show today and we had another half-dozen callers rip Quincy Carter. I thought Bob Sturm had a great point when he said that last week Quincy played great the whole game, but misses the game winning touchdown so he gets ripped. This week he doens't play well the whole game, but he makes that touchdown pass and he still gets ripped. Now which way do you want it? Now I am not sure about Quincy's future, but he has shown me enough hard work, good plays, and effort for me to give him a chance. People were in love with Steve Walsh even though he showed very little during his stay here."

This has summarized my views on Carter.

LonestarROB · 10-13-2002, 11:08 PM

Exactly my feeling aswell.

MavsRich · 10-14-2002, 12:30 AM

Great points guys, why the hatred for Carter DrBio?

dude1394 · 10-14-2002, 06:59 AM

My two cents on quincy...

Quincy came to the cowboys with a very,very,very short leash. He had no props in college, was picked too early and had to be taught to take center, grip the ball, throw a spiral etc.

His play in the first year was so horrid (and houston this year) was so horrid that I called for his head. That may have been knee-jerk but that's my perogative.

Since then he has shown himself to be an average quarterback. So I give him more leash. His oline DOES stink but part of his talent allows him to still make plays with that, one good for him.

His running game DOES stink (way too many negative carries) but again he has brought the cowboys to a 500 record. Right now the last time I looked they were tied for second in the east so they are battling.

He does seem to be a pretty tough kid and won't go down without a fight. Also to his good.

So right now qcar has at least a couple of games worth of credit in his account. But I think you have to be fair with him, he is in his 13th start or so, his oline does stink, he doesn't have a running game and the cowboys best receiver (in my opinion) hasn't played a down this year. So he's really battling out there..

Drbio · 10-14-2002, 11:01 AM

MavsRich- for the billionth time..I do not hate Quincy Carter. I hope he surprises us all and develops into the next coming of Joe Montana. I just don't see the upside many of you see. Good freaking lord people....many of you choose to like him...some of us do not yet have faith in him. Get over it. You aren't changing my mind. He has to.

If you will look back at the threads, you will see I give him occassional credit for some of the good thigns he has done...it's just that he does so many things poorly as well and you all don't call him out for it. There are a very few of us on this board willing to call him out. The vast majority of you support him and I respect that. I will be happy to post support for him when I feel he earns it. I do not praise a guy that sucks for all but 3 minutes of a game and then makes one lucky throw and one good throw. Overall he played poorly. At least I am not one of those guys who come in here, types "Quincy Sucks" and then runs away. I appreciate your opinions on Carter, I don't think I have ever said your opinion was wrong (I may say misguided or somesuch, but not wrong I hope), but my opinion is that he is not very good and he has yet to show me otherwise.

As for the comment by Fintastic about noone ever calling Quincy a star...that is incorrect. There was a dedicated thread to his stardom. There was another thread where you could vote him as a star, a future star or a suck player or somesuch. That has been the root of this debate for some time. the only choices presented were suck or star. He is very average at best. At best. I think he has shown flashes, but he is so damn inconsistent that it is very frustrating to watch. Even on the last throw to Bryant, it took a very nice effort by Bryant to elevate and make that catch...even though Carter put it in a zone where only Bryant could catch it. He has a lot of untapped skill (scrambling), but his deep and intermediate throws consistently look like ducks or miss the mark by long shots. Until he pulls his overall game together he will not be anything more than a below average to average guy.

Dooby · 10-14-2002, 11:58 AM

I was pretty anti-Quincy. However, I have come to accept the fact that he is already better than I thought he could be. Maybe he is the real deal; maybe not. But now I have to consider the fact that he may develope into a guy that will be a starting QB for years to come.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-14-2002, 03:21 PM

<< I was pretty anti-Quincy. However, I have come to accept the fact that he is already better than I thought he could be. Maybe he is the real deal; maybe not. But now I have to consider the fact that he may develope into a guy that will be a starting QB for years to come. >>

Last season I hated the guy. When I heard Emmitt say he wanted AWRIGHT to start that made me think well Quincy will never be anything and I really didnt want him to succeed. When he got hurt I dont konw if it was the play of Stoerner or Leaf that made me wanna give him a chance but I just wanted to see what he can do and he has shown flashes just like BIO has said. But when you have a qb that is in his 13th game isnt that all you want from a guy especially with a horrible line and no running game to back him up? I mean damn no one and I repeat no one has called Quincy a star and that poll was just to show for show to all the QUincy haters.

Bio, no offense but when I read ur post I get mixed reactions. Its like one post you say I dont know if he is gonna be a star or not but then you go and say well he will never be any good. Ive got no problem with that being that there are far worse fans then you becuase you atleast back your posts up without just a Quincy sucks but all we are saying is sure you can bring up his flaws and negatives but why is it when the guy does something good you give him no if lil credit? Not just you but all Quincy rippers. I have no clue where Carter would be right now if it wasnt for Wade WIlson you gotta give him his props.

Drbio · 10-14-2002, 03:51 PM

I mean damn no one and I repeat no one has called Quincy a star and that poll was just to show for show to all the QUincy haters.

Nope. I just looked back at several threads and at least 5 or 6 have openly called him a star. Type in Quincy in the search feature and read the threads. This point is no longer worth arguing. The evidence is in black in white.

Bio, no offense but when I read ur post I get mixed reactions.
No offense taken. Your opinion is fine too. We just do not agree. Variety is the spice of life...live it up.

Ive got no problem with that being that there are far worse fans then you becuase you atleast back your posts up without just a Quincy sucks but all we are saying is sure you can bring up his flaws and negatives but why is it when the guy does something good you give him no if lil credit?
First of all..thanks for acknowledging that I at least argue with points not just knee jerk. I appreciate that. Second of all, I have given Quincy random props for some of his efforts so I disagree with you in that you say I give him no or "lil" credit. Of all the "haters" (your words not mine) I probably give him more credit than the others...or than he deserves.

I have no clue where Carter would be right now if it wasnt for Wade WIlson you gotta give him his props.
I give Wade Wilson a lot of credit here. He took a guy that wouldn't have even been the starter at QB in his senior year at Georgia and turned him into a NFL QB candidate. That is not an endorsement of Quincy. That is just putting credit on Wilson for molding crap into a nice statue. After it's all said and done, we still have to wipe though. As for your question as to where Quincy would be? I think he would be back at Georgia trying to earn his degree after having been cut in the offseason.

edit for type-o

FINtastic · 10-14-2002, 07:13 PM

People may have called Quincy a future star, but I seriously doubt they meant it. I mean if you went up to these people and asked them to bet the farm on Quincy making an All-pro team, I seriously doubt you'd have any takers. The message boards are places where everyone can post anonymously. I think the people typing that Quincy is a future star were being sarcastic. And on that poll, I simply voted that Quincy would be a future star just so that there would be more star than spare votes.

FINtastic · 10-14-2002, 07:15 PM

I thought that the progress made by Quincy while he was injured his Rookie season was huge. I think you have to give Wade credit for Quincy's improvement.