Bring Kobe to Dallas

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

Couple my ass... Couple of championships plus 1 or 2, but not a couple of years BEFORE they won.

Yeah my wording was bad on that, I meant to say they would be guarenteed a championship or two in the next few years if this deal got done.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

By the way... I know you aren't a homer enough to suggest Dirk is the best player in the game, so who do you have as #2 and #3 ahead of Dirk?

I'm trying to not be a homer, but it's hard.

The only players I'd put in front of Dirk is Kobe, Lebron, and Wade in that order. And it pains me to say it.

[some-dude]

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

I'm trying to not be a homer, but it's hard.

The only players I'd put in front of Dirk is Kobe, Lebron, and Wade in that order. And it pains me to say it.

Tim Duncan anyone?

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by some-dude

Tim Duncan anyone?

He's my #5. He's much better over his career than Dirk, but currently I give Dirk the edge.

[u2sarajevo]

The FT shooter? Really?

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

The FT shooter? Really?

I donno, it's close. I'm trying to not be too big a homer. Both of them are easily top 5 so it's close.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

I guess it comes down to this. Kobe Bryant might just end up retiring the greatest NBA player in the history of the game - if his personal transgressions don't stand in the common fans way of looking at his abilities and accomplishments on the court. With as much talent as we have in todays game, to go completely off and to be as clutch as he is while also being very very good defensively, (the handful of you that always want to chant that he is overrated defensively are complete morons), well, only Michael is standing in his way now.

This man is GREAT. If I had to vote right now on who the 2nd greatest NBA player of all time was it would be Kobe Bryant. I don't like Kobe the person. I think he is a terrible human being. But he is a TREMENDOUS talent. He can shoot the 3 so well, (quickly, someone get stats proving otherwise - remember, he always seems to make the ones he needs to). He is great at the line. He is great on the drive. He is unstoppable barring triple teams, (which we had to deploy to slow him in our wins this year - who could do that to us with Dirk by the way). He is a very very good defender when he truly puts his mind to it.

Put him with Dirk and I swear on Sike's Alien Lord that Dallas would win a championship EVERY SINGLE YEAR until they were split or until Dirk took a serious nose dive barring injury.

Exactly my opinion! I would trade everyone from the Mavs, to get one of the best players I´ve ever seen. He can do everything in the game (also defensive) and a combo of Dirk and Kobe would be unstoppable for years to come, immaterial which players will surround them, as both would demand double teams. There are not many other duo´s in the NBA coming in my mind, which are (potentially could be) such an offensive force. Make it happen and get George his former teammate. Even to get Kobe to the Mavs probably would never happen . . . to dream a little bit should be allowed.

[aexchange]

as much as it pains me, i'd ship jho and devin out for kobe.

you'd have to include some other salaries including damp and probably a S&T with stack, but if you could somehow talk the lakers out of kobe + farmar for some combination of stack/jho/devin you'd have to do it and not even take a second to consider it.

[Male30Dan]

I am glad all of you aren't blinded by kobe-hatred.

If only this could happen...

[She_Growls]

I like Kobe the "basketball" player, so I say let's make this happen Mark. I am salivating at the mouth at the thought of Dirk and Kobe playing together....

[rakesh.s]

even if the lakers did trade kobe it wouldn't be within the conference...

He'll probably go to Chicago or some other team in the East.

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by rakesh.s

even if the lakers did trade kobe it wouldn't be within the conference...

He'll probably go to Chicago or some other team in the East.

Why? Everyone always assumes that great players have to be traded out of their conference. It's stupid, who are they gonna get from the east that even comes close to Kobe? Lebron? He's not going anywhere. This notion that you have to trade out of conference to prevent competition was disproved last year by Shaq, if anything sending a great player to a weaker conference only makes it easier for said player to get back to the championship. It's the dumbest idea in sports.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

I am glad all of you aren't blinded by kobe-hatred.

If only this could happen...

So what you are saying is that the Mavericks can't win a title without him huh. I think you are just smoking the Kobe kool-aid.

Yes, Kobe is a Great player, and possibly in the top 5 of all time. He can do just about anything on the court without question. I still haven't seen a 100 point game, so IMO he doesn't exactly compare to Wilt, but different era, etc.

I like Kobe's game. I just like to hate him. Kind of like Jack Nickolson -- he is at his best when he is a bad guy. Take away Kobe from the Lakers, and they aren't even a fun team to watch the Mavs play. Dirk/Kobe would be awesome, Dirk/Duncan would be awesome, but it is much more fun if Mavs are beating Kobe and Duncan than if they were playing with them.

Ex: If Wade doesn't win a title without Shaq... that team will always be Shaq's team that won, even if it was Wade that dominated the officiating (oops, I mean Game).

I don't want Wade on the Mavs either, even though he is a huge talent as well. I like to dis-like him too much.

[V2M]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

Why? Everyone always assumes that great players have to be traded out of their conference. It's stupid, who are they gonna get from the east that even comes close to Kobe? Lebron? He's not going anywhere. This notion that you have to trade out of conference to prevent competition was disproved last year by Shaq, if anything sending a great player to a weaker conference only makes it easier for said player to get back to the championship. It's the dumbest idea in sports.

I guess, it's 'cuz they don't want to face him 4 times a year. And also 'cuz they don't like to help a conference rival.

But I agree with your point. It's stupid, just as in the case of Shaq, to trade him for inferior talent... just so you can ship him out of the West.

[Flacolaco]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2884339

Kobe Bryant isn't happy with the Lakers' direction and wants Jerry West back in Los Angeles to fix things.

Bryant told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher that he wants the Lakers to bring West back to the organization and give him full authority. If the Lakers don't want to do that, Bryant said he wants to be traded.

However, Bryant told The Los Angeles Times that he was just making a suggestion and wasn't demanding a trade if West wasn't brought back.

"I would love for him to be a part of this," Bryant told the newspaper. "But it's not something where I demand he comes here. All I can do is offer my thoughts. I love being a Laker. I want to retire a Laker. I want to fix this thing, or at least help any way I can."

Talking out of both sides of his mouth.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I think you are just smoking the Kobe kool-aid.

Yes, Kobe is a Great player, and possibly in the top 5 of all time.

Yeah... If smoking the Kobe kool-aid means taking a guy that YOU think only 4 guys tops are better than in the history of the NBA and saying only one guy tops is better, yeah, I guess I am. Man, that guy would be TERRIBLE with the Mavs!

I love ya Dalm, but you are crazy not to want this guy.

Oh, and until the Mavs DO win it without him or another superstar next to Dirk - well, yeah I certainly do have my doubts. Oh, and Dirk likely has 3-4 years left of actual "superstar" play. Do you want to CONTINUE to try the way that hasn't yet worked only to say "well, we gave it our best shot with OUR guys."

I actually don't want to blow this thing up. I like the guys we have. But I am not stupid. A move to get Kobe or Gasol is just the smart thing to do.

Maybe we stay completely still this off season minus the MLE pickup and maybe Josh finally finds out how to play ALL FOUR QUARTERS and Dirk stops being such a pussy against his former coach's team and Terry doesn't play scared for large amounts of time and Devin finally develops a good jumpshot and everything just falls in place for a title run. Or maybe Josh has developed as much as he is and the only way to get him more points is to just let him shoot more making our team a bit less efficient. Maybe Dirk is what he is. Maybe Terry has long past the prime of his career and gets worse every year from here on out. Maybe Devin never develops a shot because of his absolutely STUPID shot release in which he thinks it is best to let go of the ball when he is going down from his jump. Maybe we peaked two years ago. Maybe it is time to make a move for another superstar while our superstar still is a superstar.

Sure, we should already have a championship banner but that opportunity left with this team's playoff killer instinct. We damn sure better get the latter back if we have any chance for the former.

[dalmations202]

Maybe we stay completely still this off season minus the MLE pickup and maybe Josh finally finds out how to play ALL FOUR QUARTERS and Dirk stops being such a pussy against his former coach's team and Terry doesn't play scared for large amounts of time and Devin finally develops a good jumpshot and everything just falls in place for a title run.

I am in total agreement with you except for one thing.

I don't want KOBE, Wade, LBJ, Amare, or Tim Duncan on this team. They are all great talents, but I like to loath these five.

Gasol, ONeal (either), Allen, even KGarnett, bring them on. Just not one of those five because I really like the Mavs playing against them. They are the villians to me because they are so good. Bring on any other, and win multiple titles of course.

[V2M]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I am in total agreement with you except for one thing.

I don't want KOBE, Wade, LBJ, Amare, or Tim Duncan on this team. They are all great talents, but I like to loath these five.

Gasol, ONeal (either), Allen, even KGarnett, bring them on. Just not one of those five because I really like the Mavs playing against them. They are the villians to me because they are so good. Bring on any other, and win multiple titles of course.

I respect your opinion... but I don't get that logic!!

Sure I don't like 'em when we're playing against 'em... but if we can get 'em on our team, I'd be all for it.

[V2M]

Dump Dirk? For Kobe, Mavs should

By Jean Jacques Taylor / Dallas Morning News

10:02 PM CDT on Monday, May 28, 2007

It doesn't matter whether Mark Cuban or Donnie Nelson makes the phone call, but one of them needs to contact Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak today and find out what it takes to get Kobe Bryant.

If the answer is Dirk Nowitzki, then so be it.

Straight up. No frills. A simple blockbuster.

One first-team All-NBA star in his prime for another.

Bryant has been dropping subtle hints for a week that he wants out of Los Angeles. Superstars have been dealt before.

Wilt Chamberlain was traded. So was Oscar Robertson. And Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Don't forget to add Shaquille O'Neal to the list.

So don't act like it's blasphemous to consider trading Nowitzki, the league's MVP. Or have you forgotten Philadelphia dealt former MVP Allen Iverson this season.
If you think it's laughable to move Dirk Nowitzki (foreground) for Kobe Bryant, think again.

No one said it would be an easy decision. Or a popular decision. Or that Cuban even has the courage to trade his favorite player.

But it must be considered.

This is not a knee-jerk reaction to Nowitzki's performance in the Mavericks' shocking first-round playoff loss. This is about positioning the Mavericks to win a championship by acquiring a player who embraces pressure and plays best in big games.

Besides, I've already made the trade on a Web site that analyzes the feasibility of trades to make sure there wasn't any problem with the salaries.

There isn't.

Kobe is scheduled to earn a little more than $17 million this season, while Nowitzki is supposed to get about $15 million. According to this Web site, the deal is fine. Just to make sure, I proposed a deal of DeSagana Diop, Greg Buckner and Jason Terry for Bryant and the computer GM promptly rejected it.

Over the holiday weekend, an ESPN report quoted Bryant as saying he would consider waiving his no-trade clause unless the Lakers re-hired Jerry West and gave him full control of the organization.

As you would expect, he's denying the story.

Too late.

Bryant is mad at the only franchise he's ever played for because they haven't gotten him enough help to make the Lakers a legitimate contender.

And nothing is going to change this off-season because Lamar Odom's shoulder injury means he has little trade value. Neither does Kwame Brown, the only other player on the roster worth more than a Wal-Mart gift card, though his contract expires at the end of next season.

It's Bryant's fault he's in this predicament because he's the one who chased off O'Neal, so he could be the focal point of the team. Now that it's not working out, he wants to wear a new uniform next season if he doesn't get what he wants.

We all know Cuban has a soft spot for Nowitzki because of the 7-footer's work ethic, talent and ability to lead the Mavericks from the abyss of the '90s. Nowitzki is the most decorated player in franchise history, with a low-maintenance personality to match.

Those are just some of the reasons Cuban was so emotional at the news conference to announce that Nowitzki had been named MVP. But he also loves the Mavericks and he'll be doing his club a disservice if he doesn't explore every avenue to make it a better basketball team.

You can't convince me adding Bryant doesn't improve the Mavericks. I'll worry about who's playing power forward later.

It's not that Nowitzki isn't a great player. Winning the MVP proves that just in case you weren't impressed that he averaged 24.6 points and 8.9 rebounds for a team that won 67 games.

But we all know he doesn't always embrace the moment and deliver in the Mavericks' most important games. We all know he has a reputation for being soft, perhaps because he didn't learn the game on inner-city black tops, where you call your own fouls, or spend a summer playing at Rucker Park in New York.

He's had huge games in the playoffs before – 37 in Game 7 against San Antonio in 2006 comes to mind as does a 50-point performance against Phoenix – but pro sports is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately business.

Miami's Dwyane Wade outplayed him in the final four games of the 2006 NBA Finals as the Heat rallied from a 2-0 deficit to win the championship. And Nowitzki was tentative and ineffective against Golden State as Dallas became the first No.1 seed to lose a best-of-7 series against a No.8 seed.

Bryant has never won an MVP trophy, but he understands how to impose his will on a game. He demands the ball in clutch situations and consistently attacks the bucket.

He is the NBA's best player.

Others like Nowitzki and Wade are part of the discussion, but we all know Bryant is the NBA's most feared player.

He wouldn't go 2-for-13, score eight points and passively hang around the perimeter in the most important game of the season. Bryant's confidence never wanes.

Nowitzki, the best European player ever, will be inducted into the Hall of Fame one day. But he lacks the arrogance to lead the Mavericks to a championship.

Bryant does not.

STAR POWER
Kobe Bryant and Dirk Nowitzki, two of the NBA's superstars, are in their prime. A look at the two players and their career averages in the regular season:
Category Kobe Bryant Dirk Nowitzki
Age 28 28
Points 24.6 22.3
Rebounds 5.2 8.6
Assists 4.5 2.6
NBA titles 3 0
MVPs 0 1

[Tokey41]

You know if we had a good backup at the 4 to move in as a starter and weren't already so decent at the 2 I would at least consider Dirk as part of a deal... but thats not the case. Keep Dirk, without him our power forward spot is absolute crap. Plus just having Kobe doesnt make us a championship team. Dirk + Kobe definitely do.

[nashtymavsfan13]

I'd trade anyone but Dirk for him, even though I hate Kobe. I don't think Dirk for Kobe puts us over the hump, people seem to be forgetting that Dirk willed us through the Spurs and Suns series' last year. Having both would be ideal. If not, then Kobe can go somewhere else.

[robz]

article in the DNS. .

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...r.2a77db3.html

wow pissed me off just reading it

[Henry_VIII]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...arc&id=2884658

Which brings us to Bryant's real problem.

The Lakers aren't the New York Yankees. Jerry Buss isn't George Steinbrenner. The NBA doesn't work like the baseball or the NFL.

Kobe can call for big changes as loudly as he wants, but he can't restructure his contract football-style to give money back because that's not allowed in this league, and Buss can't just break out the checkbook to sign the hoops equivalent of Roger Clemens. Bryant has an opt-out clause in his contract in the summer of 2009 -- two seasons from now -- and the Lakers' salary-cap situation is such that they're not going to make a significant improvement in that span without a major trade.

If Buss would read d-m.com he can learn how to break the bank to make it all happen.

[alby]

these are the threads that I don't read. =]

[MascisMan]

Im with the camp that thinks that the Lakers wouldn't trade Kobe to a team in the West. Given this assumpion, what about LA trading him to NJ for a package deal to land Kidd and Carter?

NJ gets the prime player to sell tickets for their new arena. LA gets players that can be sold in a major market (LA). LA definitely improves, Kobe gets to unleash hell on the East with Jefferson, Krstic, Marcus Williams, and Nachbar.

LA:

PG: Kidd
SG: Carter
SF:Walton (resign)
PF:Odom
C:Bynum

NJ:

PG: Williams
SG: Bryant
SF: Jefferson/Nachbar
PF: Moore
C: Krstic

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by MascisMan

Im with the camp that thinks that the Lakers wouldn't trade Kobe to a team in the West. Given this assumpion, what about LA trading him to NJ for a package deal to land Kidd and Carter?

NJ gets the prime player to sell tickets for their new arena. LA gets players that can be sold in a major market (LA). LA definitely improves, Kobe gets to unleash hell on the East with Jefferson, Krstic, Marcus Williams, and Nachbar.

LA:

PG: Kidd
SG: Carter
SF:Walton (resign)
PF:Odom
C:Bynum

NJ:

PG: Williams
SG: Bryant
SF: Jefferson/Nachbar
PF: Moore
C: Krstic

NJ jumps to top 4 in the east
LA jumps from 12 to 9 in the west still outside looking in at the playoffs, IMO.

[MascisMan]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

NJ jumps to top 4 in the east
LA jumps from 12 to 9 in the west still outside looking in at the playoffs, IMO.

So your thinking that LA will be number 12 this next year despite being number 7 this past postseason? If LA doesn't change anything they will drop 5 spots?

I think the LA lineup with Kidd/Carter could put them at 5 or 6.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by MascisMan

So your thinking that LA will be number 12 this next year despite being number 7 this past postseason? If LA doesn't change anything they will drop 5 spots?

I think the LA lineup with Kidd/Carter could put them at 5 or 6.

Kidd/Carter in the first year of trying to learn the triangle offense.

yes, I think they go down and not up for at least the first year.

<edit> and no, if they keep Kobe, they will be 7-10 just on Kobe alone.

[bobatundi]

Apparently Kupchak wants to break the bank, but he's having trouble working out an appropriate trade:

http://www.thebrushback.com/kupchak_full.htm