Rondo? - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

iggymcfly · 12-18-2014, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Good thing you don't live in Vegas.

Guarantee you there's not a sportsbook in Vegas stupid enough to offer me even money on Dallas at home vs. San Antonio. We'll probably be favored by like 3.5.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-18-2014, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggymcfly

I don't get why this idea is so persistent. We had more roster turnover this offseason than any contender except Cleveland. Those pieces aren't just going to magically reach their optimal level of chemistry and team ball less than 2 months into the season. Hell, the Cavs were the title favorites going into the year and they look like a mess right now. The Heat started out 12-9 when the Big 3 first assembled in Miami. So far, very early in the year, were already playing better than the Spurs or the Clippers. Who's to say that with another couple months under Carlisle we can't become a little better on defense and start challenging for the 2 seed with our current roster?

You may very well be right about Rondo for all I know, but comparing this Mavs team's woes on defense and rebounding to any team that has Lebron friggin James is just silly. The Mavs defensive and rebounding deficiencies have NOTHING to do with chemistry, and everything to do with personnel.

If Rondo isn't the guy to fix either of those problems, fine. That's a debate worth having. But the idea that the Mavs are among the worst teams in the NBA in both categories because they haven't had enough time to gel... That's not a debate worth having.

"Those pieces aren't just going to magically reach their optimal level of chemistry and team ball less than 2 months into the season."

By the same token, a team of awful defenders and rebounders isn't going to magically transform into good defenders and rebounders after a few more months either.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-18-2014, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Rondo hasn't been a good defender for at least 3 years. He's still better than Nelson, but that's damning with faint praise

Well as long as Houston isn't getting him, then I wouldn't be too upset if we didn't. We clearly need a better starting pg since the FO won't start Harris. I'm quite optimistic there will be a plethora of talent available at the deadline. Maybe not Rondo's talent, but certainly something better than Nelson.

Adding on to this...we really don't need a great starting pg. Just someone who can defend better than Nelson or Ellis.

iggymcfly · 12-18-2014, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You may very well be right about Rondo for all I know, but comparing this Mavs team's woes on defense and rebounding to any team that has Lebron friggin James is just silly. The Mavs defensive and rebounding deficiencies have NOTHING to do with chemistry, and everything to do with personnel.

If Rondo isn't the guy to fix either of those problems, fine. That's a debate worth having. But the idea that the Mavs are among the worst teams in the NBA in both categories because they haven't had enough time to gel... That's not a debate worth having.

"Those pieces aren't just going to magically reach their optimal level of chemistry and team ball less than 2 months into the season."

By the same token, a team of awful defenders and rebounders isn't going to magically transform into good defenders and rebounders after a few more months either.

Yes, we're way below average on defense and rebounding, but we're also at previously unseen historically good levels in terms of offensive efficiency so it balances out. Right now, the power rankings derived from the betting lines have us as the 2nd best team in the entire league on a day-to-day basis behind Golden State:
http://stats.inpredictable.com/rankings/nba.php

If we improve at all from the players getting time together on defense, and learning how to cover each other on rotations, we're absolutely a contender to win the title. Probably have the best-looking team we've had going into the playoffs since the year we had 67 wins and the 1 seed.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-18-2014, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well as long as Houston isn't getting him, then I wouldn't be too upset if we didn't. We clearly need a better starting pg since the FO won't start Harris. I'm quite optimistic there will be a plethora of talent available at the deadline. Maybe not Rondo's talent, but certainly something better than Nelson.

Adding on to this...we really don't need a great starting pg. Just someone who can defend better than Nelson or Ellis.

What we need is a guy who can defend both guard spots, rebound better than most guards, and hit an open 3. Rondo gives us two of those three things. Is there anyone out there who can do all three of those things that we could conceivably get at a reasonable price?

It's really too bad Jason Kidd isn't just a few years younger. Kidd circa 2011 would have been perfect next to Ellis.

iggymcfly · 12-18-2014, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well as long as Houston isn't getting him, then I wouldn't be too upset if we didn't. We clearly need a better starting pg since the FO won't start Harris. I'm quite optimistic there will be a plethora of talent available at the deadline. Maybe not Rondo's talent, but certainly something better than Nelson.

Adding on to this...we really don't need a great starting pg. Just someone who can defend better than Nelson or Ellis.

Gary Neal! We could probably get him for a 2nd rounder at the deadline if we wanted, right? Not like a 6-19 team benefits from having a 30 year old on their roster.

grndmstr_c · 12-18-2014, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggymcfly

Gary Neal! We could probably get him for a 2nd rounder at the deadline if we wanted, right? Not like a 6-19 team benefits from having a 30 year old on their roster.

Not sure if serious.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-18-2014, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggymcfly

Yes, we're way below average on defense and rebounding, but we're also at previously unseen historically good levels in terms of offensive efficiency so it balances out. Right now, the power rankings derived from the betting lines have us as the 2nd best team in the entire league on a day-to-day basis behind Golden State:
http://stats.inpredictable.com/rankings/nba.php

If we improve at all from the players getting time together on defense, and learning how to cover each other on rotations, we're absolutely a contender to win the title. Probably have the best-looking team we've had going into the playoffs since the year we had 67 wins and the 1 seed.

You really put an awful lot of stock in those betting lines, don't you? I don't. I tend to agree with the other posters who have the Mavs pegged as a 2nd round team at best.

If you're expecting the Mavs to get any better on defense as the season goes on, I think you're in for a big disappointment. I reiterate- our problems have nothing to do with chemistry or time. No amount of time together is going to make this a better defensive team. We lack size and ability. Not chemistry.

Kidd Karma · 12-18-2014, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Also, no team has ever won a championship since 1995 without being at least top-12 in defense.

We're 24th in FG% defense
We're 30th in 3pt defense

Ugly, it's funny living in GSW territory, got some talk show hosts thinking along these lines.....except in terms of championships....division championships, Warriors last won one of those in the 1970's has there been any team in the last 30 or so years to have never won a thing, to all of a sudden win the NBA championship....that and the Bogut injury has GSW loyalists walking on egg shells.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-18-2014, 05:05 PM

I will say that our rebounding has been much improved for the month of December. Only NO and Chicago have outrebounded us so far this month. I'm much more concerned about upgrading the defense. And if Rondo isn't a very, very good to elite defender anymore, then I wouldn't give up a ton to get him. I'm hearing mixed reports/opinions about how good his defense still is...and have been for while.

Kante · 12-18-2014, 05:06 PM

Woj:

Quote:

Dallas is emerging as the frontrunner in pursuit of a deal to acquire Boston's Rajon Rondo, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

Quote:

Lakers and Knicks declined to be part of three-way deals that could've sent Rondo elsewhere, league sources tell Yahoo.

Kante · 12-18-2014, 05:08 PM

If he comes to the Mavs (which i still don't like), i guess he will be more motivated on defense and trying harder to play for a good team.

Kante · 12-18-2014, 05:08 PM

Woj again:

Quote:

In Rondo talks, Boston and Dallas discussing package including Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder and a first-round pick, sources tell Yahoo.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-18-2014, 05:10 PM

It really sounds like the deal is as good as done.

Kidd Karma · 12-18-2014, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

What we need is a guy who can defend both guard spots, rebound better than most guards, and hit an open 3. Rondo gives us two of those three things. Is there anyone out there who can do all three of those things that we could conceivably get at a reasonable price?

It's really too bad Jason Kidd isn't just a few years younger. Kidd circa 2011 would have been perfect next to Ellis.

Ha, Ellis was Jet in 2011.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-18-2014, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Ha, Ellis was Jet in 2011.

Pretty much. We haven't had an actual shooting guard since Michael Finley. Just undersized "combo" guards.

Kante · 12-18-2014, 05:20 PM

Wojihandoraskapeswski:

Quote:

Dallas' 2015 first-round pick is part of proposed Rondo deal, and there could be further draft considerations as part of a package.

MavsFTR · 12-18-2014, 05:30 PM

Not to long now...

vinylstar · 12-18-2014, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Are you serious? The kid is having an excellent season, putting up 16/8/3 PER36, 11,4/5,6/2 otherwise, with a block and a steal basically, above 60%TS. He recently had a 30/9 game. At the very least, he is an excellent role player in this league. There is absolutely no way the Celtics would trade him for Nelson or Felton. I personally wouldn't trade him for a Wright/Harris package.

Fair enough. I haven't watched much Celtics, but when I watch them, I've been underwhelmed by Olynyk. If they won't trade Zeller or Olynyk, my comments regarding being prepared for 18 minutes of Greg Smith at backup center and more CP at 4 stand. This concerns me.

grndmstr_c · 12-18-2014, 05:32 PM

One thing that just occurred to me as I was mulling over Woj mentioning Jae…I believe RJeff would enjoy playing with Rondo. I'd expect an uptick in his minutes (floor spacing) and productivity if the trade went through.

Underdog · 12-18-2014, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinylstar

Fair enough. I haven't watched much Celtics, but when I watch them, I've been underwhelmed by Olynyk. If they won't trade Zeller or Olynyk, my comments regarding being prepared for 18 minutes of Greg Smith at backup center and more CP at 4 stand. This concerns me.

We're still loaded with assets to trade for another center... Or we can pull Okafor/O'Neal off the scrapheap.

We have options.

MavsFTR · 12-18-2014, 05:36 PM

Woj: The reality is this: Rondo's value no longer dictates an All-Star in return, and waiting until the trade deadline won't improve packages.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-18-2014, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

One thing that just occurred to me as I was mulling over Woj mentioning Jae…I believe RJeff would enjoy playing with Rondo. I'd expect an uptick in his minutes (floor spacing) and productivity if the trade went through.

Well that position is too crowded and needs to be thinned out. I do think either Aminu or Crowder needed to be moved at some point anyway.

howdoesmydirktaste · 12-18-2014, 05:38 PM

Just listened to Mark Followill on the Ticket. I couldn't get a read on whether or not he had any inside info about the odds of this trade going down, but he did say Rondo would bring much-needed balance to the team and thinks that the small amount of offense that we would sacrifice (being the #1 scoring team in the NBA) is worth it. He said "You can't be amazing on offense and suck on defense and be an elite team."

Woj has been tweeting that Boston has reached the point of no return and need to make a decision on a offer.

I think it's going to be an interesting night. Might have a different lineup facing the Spurs on the second night of their back to back.

Our upcoming schedule is a buzz saw. Crazy times.

grndmstr_c · 12-18-2014, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well that position is too crowded and needs to be thinned out. I do think either Aminu or Crowder needed to be moved at some point anyway.

And Crowder, even if he's the lesser talent of the two, would have more value in trade because he can be retained for a pittance next year.

bilease · 12-18-2014, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

We're still loaded with assets to trade for another center... Or we can pull Okafor/O'Neal off the scrapheap.

We have options.

I could live with Tyson/ONeal/Smith I guess, not happy about letting Crowder go either but mainly for his energy/attitude than basketball reasons. Wouldnt hesitate to let him go, but Id rather put Felton or even Nelson into the deal. If this trade happens without a PG leaving Dallas that would put us at 6 guards and 5 of those being PGs? Well, might as well say 4 since Feltons ankle sprain seems to end his season.

Five-ofan · 12-18-2014, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You really put an awful lot of stock in those betting lines, don't you? I don't. I tend to agree with the other posters who have the Mavs pegged as a 2nd round team at best.

If you're expecting the Mavs to get any better on defense as the season goes on, I think you're in for a big disappointment. I reiterate- our problems have nothing to do with chemistry or time. No amount of time together is going to make this a better defensive team. We lack size and ability. Not chemistry.

I think we are basically on the same page(though I'm not sure about how much I think rondo helps) no team starting the worst defensive pg in the league, a bad defensive 2 who's a midget, an averageish defensive 3, and a bad defensive 4(he got to be pretty darn good during his prime but his d has gone to hell in his old age) is going to be good defensively.

vinylstar · 12-18-2014, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

We're still loaded with assets to trade for another center... Or we can pull Okafor/O'Neal off the scrapheap.

We have options.

I get that we have assets. I just don't see good targets. I think we have the kind of talent Memphis would theoretically be looking for, but I don't know they are going to entertain Kofus trades.

JaVale McGee is probably available...i just got sick to my stomach.

DirkFTW · 12-18-2014, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggymcfly

Probably have the best-looking team we've had going into the playoffs since the year we had 67 wins and the 1 seed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I tend to agree with the other posters who have the Mavs pegged as a 2nd round team at best.

Consensus!

rimrocker · 12-18-2014, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinylstar

I get that we have assets. I just don't see good targets. I think we have the kind of talent Memphis would theoretically be looking for, but I don't know they are going to entertain Kofus trades.

JaVale McGee is probably available...i just got sick to my stomach.

Mavs should go after Mihinmi.
Nelson/Smith should do it.
Then either sign JO or bring back Sarge.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-18-2014, 05:48 PM

Wright/Crowder for Rondo doesn't work numbers-wise, so it would have to include another Mav like Nelson.

PartywithDirk · 12-18-2014, 05:51 PM

Stein says it could be done tonight. Nelson/Wright/Crowder/Future 1st and 2nd.

EricaLubarsky · 12-18-2014, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

I'd like to counter the notion that Rondo isn't that good of a defender/ rebounder.

Ummm, yes he is. Someone pointed out players average a PER of 18.0 against him vs. the league-wide average of 15.0. First off, everyone and their mothers know that PER is skewed in favor of those who contribute in limited minutes (cough cough Wright cough). A more accurate measure is DPRM which takes into account points allowed per 100 possessions. Rondo is 4th in the league. http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rp...RPM/position/1

I agree with your assertion that he's a killer rebounder, but his PER suffers because of his TO and low shooting percentages (40.5%/ 25%/33.3%) with 3.4 TOper game

His FG%, FT%, and 3pt FG% are all concerning, but his TOs are not terrible or surprising. He is the league leader in ball handling (he has the ball for a HUGE percentage of his team's possessions) and he has an A/TO of 3.2-- which is NASH-level

Remember when Donnie said that he only wanted PGs with an A/TO over 3? Well he'd like Rondo and HATE Nelson's 2.4

MavsFTR · 12-18-2014, 05:51 PM

Stein: ESPN sources say Mavericks and Celtics are progressing toward completion of Rajon Rondo trade tonight. ESPN sources say teams closing in on swap to send Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder, Jameer Nelson, one future first & one future second to Celts

grndmstr_c · 12-18-2014, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Wright/Crowder for Rondo doesn't work numbers-wise, so it would have to include another Mav like Nelson.

Yup. It's all but a given that Felton and/or Nelson would be included in any Rondo trade.

EricaLubarsky · 12-18-2014, 05:52 PM

Wright/Nelson/Crowder 2015 protected first, 2016 unprotected second is what I'm hearing

MavsFTR · 12-18-2014, 05:53 PM

Woj: Boston's informed teams it's focused on completing deal with Dallas soon, closing on a package to send Rajon Rondo to Mavs, sources tell Y.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-18-2014, 05:54 PM

I would love to see Mahinmi in a Mavs uni again.

grndmstr_c · 12-18-2014, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

Stein: ESPN sources say Mavericks and Celtics are progressing toward completion of Rajon Rondo trade tonight. ESPN sources say teams closing in on swap to send Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder, Jameer Nelson, one future first & one future second to Celts

About what I thought/hoped the deal would be. Very comfortable with that if it comes to pass.

MavsFTR · 12-18-2014, 05:55 PM

Woj: Houston had dropped out of the talks in the past hour, clearing the way for Boston to complete deal with Dallas, sources told Yahoo.