Is this election an opportunity for Americans?

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

I'm not sure you actually read or understood the posts in this thread.

Go back and re-read the posts (especially kirobaito's) and tell me the op wasn't dinged for those three things.

To some, excluding yourself and those who can't wait to go through the ritual of voting in this country, the entire process is merely a symbol of stupidity and insanity. For some (myself included), the entire spectacle is just that... a spectacle.

Do you really believe that if Kerry was elected, we'd have done in Iraq what we did in Iraq, and if the Republicans were in charge more recently, we'd be installing socialized medicine?

I really don't see how you can *feel* that anything in the rest of your post is remotely logical.

I don't feel that this understanding of the political climate is cynical, I feel that it is the only logical assessment. The two-party system ..., but the balls of the phallus that screws the entire world chugs on.

And you and others fight over which ball you belong to.

It's a nonsensical mashup of under analyzed emotion, conjecture, and accusation, with no self-awareness whatsoever. (If what you say about two-party systems and cooption is correct, then aren't you being coopted right now? Or is what you say not meaningful?)

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Do you really believe that if Kerry was elected, we'd have done in Iraq what we did in Iraq?

Too easy....yes, had Kerry been elected we'd have done the exact same thing.


edit: One thing the average Iraq-war supporting Republican might not know, and the average Democrat might prefer to forget-->>

during the 2004 campaign, antiwar protests were cordoned off into Orwellian "free speech" zones, not at Republican events, but at Democratic party events.

Democrats, bombing the shit out of people since WWI.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Too easy....yes, had Kerry been elected we'd have done the exact same thing.


edit: One thing the average Iraq-war supporting Republican might not know, and the average Democrat might prefer to forget-->>

during the 2004 campaign, antiwar protests were cordoned off into Orwellian "free speech" zones, not at Republican events, but at Democratic party events.

Democrats, bombing the shit out of people since WWI.

I agree with you on your view of Kerry. And as far as the suppression of free speech goes at Party events, there is a long, and sometimes violent history of such. The real history of this country is pretty dark and bleak. Once you take a few steps outside of the official narrative that we are all forced to memorize as children, things get a bit disturbing. As much as words like freedom and democracy get tossed around, they tend to lose their meaning when the reality on the ground says otherwise. I think that scares the hell out of people, but it is necessary, at some point, to move past the fables and myths and into some semblance of reality.

Many Americans are finding the way things are headed to be antithetical to the principles they believe in, and are beginning to expand their understanding of how their actions, or lack thereof, bring about the situation we currently find ourselves in. Others (a shrinking number every day) still hold on to the fairy tales we were conditioned to believe in our youth.

From my understanding of history, there is no political solution to this mess. Our political system is merely a platform for entertainment. Nothing will change with new elections, save the mascots of the home team. And many people that could bring about substantial change in their communities will instead engage in useless banter about strategy in a world they have yet to directly and meaningfully engage in.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by ribosoma

From my understanding of history, there is no political solution to this mess.

This is how I see it as well.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Too easy....yes, had Kerry been elected we'd have done the exact same thing..

really? surge and all?
and socialized medicine? We'd be doing that if republicans had been in charge the last 2 years?

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

really? surge and all?

Yeah....I believe the number Kerry floated was around 40k additional troops. Kerry's critique was always about Bush's management of the war, never that invading and occupying Iraq was a bad idea.

and socialized medicine? We'd be doing that if republicans had been in charge the last 2 years?

does medicare part d, a gazillion dollar plus expansion of the socialist welfare state and the biggest entitlement increase since LBJ, ring a bell?

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Yeah....I believe the number Kerry floated was around 40k additional troops. Kerry's critique was always about Bush's management of the war, never that invading and occupying Iraq was a bad idea.

He also said something like, "sending a bunch of troops now would just be adding to our own casualty list."

does medicare part d, a gazillion dollar plus expansion of the socialist welfare state and the biggest entitlement increase since LBJ, ring a bell?

Not really stuff voters were happy about. And it pales in comparison to where we are now.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

(If what you say about two-party systems and cooption is correct, then aren't you being coopted right now? Or is what you say not meaningful?)

Exactly how is someone who isn't a member of one of those parties, doesn't vote, and doesn't watch mainstream media co-opted? I know from previous discourse that you consider yourself the defender of all things American, be it flags, crying eagles, etc., but what exactly is your point again? I can't really tell what you have a problem with in my post because you truncate the quote to reflect how you see it, as opposed to how it was initially presented, presumably with the intent of somehow insulting me. This, to me, shows that you don't bother to fully read what others here write, which, after all, was my initial point. You have your view set, even if you seem to have an awfully hard time of ever getting around to coherently presenting exactly what it is. So more power to you, man. That is, apparently, just how you roll.