$400.00 per child Tax-relief Checks are in the Mail- Bush screws the working poor!!!!

[Drbio]

veruca- with all due respect, gay and f*ck are hardly equitable. I've said a million times, a well placed damn or hell is hardly offensive to me, but the use of the f-bomb is very much so. In addition, there are numerous young postser here who shouldn't have to see that crap, not to mention ANY poster.

[veruca salt]

but you asked people to stop using the F word because you found it offensive.
Sturm & I are now pointing out something that we find it to be offensive.
Tell me Doc, is it only what you find offensive that's important?
I don't find f*** to be offensive, but when you made a post pointing out that you
thought it was inappropriate for such a board, I stopped using it. You were right,
there were other people who might find it offensive, they shouldn't have to read it. So i stopped,
for you sake, for their sake.
It's just common courtesy.

[Drbio]

I think you realize that I do not post gay or fag or homo or whatever but maybe once or twice and only as a poor choice of words at best. No intent to be offensive at all. The difference is that the f-word is offensive period. There is no manner of use of the f-word that is appropriate. Saying something is gay is hardly demaening to homosexuals. Saying something is queer is hardly demeaning to homosexuals. The meaning of those words means odd, not normal, etc.

If a casual slip bothers you to the point of ripping on someone like they say it all of time, then it is not my problem because I do not and I am pretty sure you know that. When I saw the inordinate amount of f-bombs being used and saw they were in basically every other post and increasing I said something about it. I make no apologies for doing so.

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: Drbio
veruca- with all due respect, gay and f*ck are hardly equitable. I've said a million times, a well placed damn or hell is hardly offensive to me, but the use of the f-bomb is very much so. In addition, there are numerous young postser here who shouldn't have to see that crap, not to mention ANY poster.

I've noticed, however, that some posters find it objectionable to use the word "God" in conjunction with any profanity or vulgarity. While I myself don't give a good gosh-darned about such language, and while I know that my use of such language doesn't mean I'm an aetheist, I have made a conscious effort not to use that specific term, out of respect for people who might be offended.

While I can understand that use of terms like "fag" or "homo" doesn't necessarily make the user a "homophobe" or a "gay-basher", I can likewise appreciate another person's discomfort with the notion that a despective term associated with sexual identity be used as an insult, and that impressionable young posters might be led to think that ít's okay to use those terms as insults--as if they were legitimate notions with which to insult someone, or notions of which to be ashamed.

[Drbio]

kiki- I happen to agree, but I am seeing some posters here piss and whine about a poster or two having used a word they found offensive once or twice and instead of asking them politely to not use it they immediately ripped on the other poster. I used myself as an example so as not to point out other folks. It's rediculous to rip on someone for a very limited use of a word that has a legitimate meaning. Some people need thicker skin. My request to stop the f-word was not as much me being offended as it was to clean up the board a bit. The use of the f-word is hardly the same as throwing out the word gay in coorect english context.

[veruca salt]

[kg_veteran]

[quote]
Originally posted by: sturm und drang
Mav_Kiki beat me to the "yes, gays cannot adopt in certain states" refutement. And did it much more articulately than I ever could have.

My statement was a bit too broad. What I meant to say was, "There is no law in Texas that I'm aware of that prohibits gays from adopting." I'm an attorney in Texas, and I have enough trouble keeping up with the law in Texas, much less the law in Florida. While I've handled over 100 adoptions, I can't state with absolute certainty that no such law exists in Texas -- just that I don't believe there is.

Well this is a first: I have never heard anyone defend the legality of firing someone because they are gay. Do you think people should be fired because of their race? Is that fair? If I'm gay, is it right for my boss to find out and fire me simply because he or she doesn't agree with what I do in the privacy of my own home? By that token, can someone be fired because they're Jewish? Or Muslim?

Where you and I differ is that I draw a distinction between classifying people based upon something they are born with or can't change (race, nationality) or based upon a practice they have that is constitutionally protected (religion) as opposed to what gender they choose to have sex with. I just don't see those as being on equal footing.

I've never said I think it's fair that a gay person is fired for being gay. I'm not sure where you'd get that from. I just don't think you can make a law for everything -- thus my example.

I think most people have huge problems with people being fired so capriciously, with no regard to job performance. And sexuality has NOTHING to do with job performance-- just as race doesn't.

I'm one of "most people". I think people should be judged based upon job performance. But my point was, there are certain things that are constitutionally protected, and certain things that aren't. I don't think that you can make a law that will prevent all forms of capricious firing, so you have to draw the line somewhere.

By your logic espoused above, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 should simply be repealed, because no one should be protected from being fired because of their boss's philosophical/religious/political leanings and/or prejudices.

Not sure where you got that from. Homosexuals aren't protected by that Act.

And marriage is a state-sanctioned benefit. Tax implications, next-of-kin implications, medical/insurance/Social Security implications... and an infinite host of other government-dictated benefits, it will cease to be. But until then... homosexuals are being excluded from one of the basic governmental benefits.

Insurance plans depend on the insurance company, not on the government. As for the tax and Social Security implications, I would have no real problem if they changed the law to permit homosexual couples to file as "married" couples. That said, I don't think it's a huge travesty if they don't change the law, either.

Just my opinion.

[veruca salt]

I've noticed, however, that some posters find it objectionable to use the word "God" in conjunction with any profanity or vulgarity. While I myself don't give a good gosh-darned about such language, and while I know that my use of such language doesn't mean I'm an aetheist, I have made a conscious effort not to use that specific term, out of respect for people who might be offended.

Exactly. It's a matter of respect, and I just think the way you (Doc) responded to Sturms post was totally
disrespectful. Just as if someone had totally disregarded your post about language/blasphemy, after you had shown
that it was obviously an issue that was important to you, would've been disrespectful.
The reality is we can all say what we want on here, but some choose to censor themselves for the sake of the board,
I guess others don't....

[Drbio]

If you feel it was disrespectful...fine. Your opinion. We don't share it however. But, we don't have to.





There is plenty of disrespect in this thread. Some folks should not throw stones.

[veruca salt]

The use of the f-word is hardly the same as throwing out the word gay in coorect english context.

I don't think anyone really has a problem with it being used in it's correct context Doc, it's the notion
that people think it's ok to use it as an insult that is the issue here.

[Drbio]

I don't think someone should get ripped for saying "That's gay". That is awfully thin skinned.

[reeds]

All I want is consistency. Why do some get suspended for almost nothing, and then someone can talk shit like MADAPE did??? COME ON- this is garbage..a fair playing field is all I am asking for

[Drbio]

I certainly don't mind consistency.

[veruca salt]

It's more so about the attitude now i think. I don't think that someone should get 'ripped' for saying "oh my god"
but you've gone out of your way on occasions to do so, and that's fine, I can live with that. As I said, it's common courtesy.

[Drbio]

That is not true. Find me one even one instance where I ripped on someone for saying "oh my god". common courtesy involves the truth.

[Drbio]

double post....

[veruca salt]

notice how i used 'ripped' i don't even know what you mean by that word, but you keep using it.
I just assumed it meant that someone said that they found the use of something offensive, which is what sturm did.
you've done the same with blasphemy....and I don't need to find you the posts you know you requested that people
not use blasphemy.

[Drbio]

Just get the facts right. I have indeed asked folks not to use God in profanity and it goes back to the original point....it was to clean up the board. This board was riddled with harsh profanity during that time. Like the f-word, there is no use of that combination that is socially acceptable. It is universally accepted as profanity. The word "gay" is hardly the same.


If you are offended by the phrase "That is gay" when someone is pointing out something is weird, odd etc that is one thing. I hardly see where it is offensive to gay people because it is not IMHO. BUT, it hardly equates to profanity. And the intent issue is completely and conveniently being overlooked to further an agenda.

[MFFL]

I wish someone would change the name of this thread to "random sniping"

[Drbio]

or petty griping

[veruca salt]

If you are offended by the phrase "That is gay" when someone is pointing out something is weird, odd etc that is one thing. I hardly see where it is offensive to gay people because it is not IMHO. BUT, it hardly equates to profanity. And the intent issue is completely and conveniently being overlooked to further an agenda.

When or where has gay EVER meant weird or odd??

Look i'm over it, say whatever you want, just don't get offended when others say whatever they want.

[veruca salt]

Originally posted by: Drbio
or petty griping

how about "cliques-R-us"?

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: veruca salt

how about "cliques-R-us"?

That line is so weak. Please....tell us all more about the "cliques".

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: veruca salt

When or where has gay EVER meant weird or odd??

.

I'm pretty sure when Rhylan stated this thread was gay that he wasn't insinuating we should all hook up with members of the same sex for some hot loving. He meant this thread was silly, odd, weird, lame, stoopid, etc. Many implied uses of that word. Hardly the same as f*ck for which there is but one meaning.

[Chiwas]

Look i'm over it, say whatever you want, just don't get offended when others say whatever they want.

This is a good proposal, a practical one.

The opposite would work too, but who could decide for others what is offensive and what is not? Not very practical.

[Rhylan]

Originally posted by: reeds
All I want is consistency. Why do some get suspended for almost nothing, and then someone can talk shit like MADAPE did??? COME ON- this is garbage..a fair playing field is all I am asking for

It's not just the words that people say. I also consider the intent behind the words, and I also consider the person's history of contributions to the board. You might not like that, but let's face it -- there's no black and white when it comes to being "offensive," so I'm not going to apply fuzzy rules "fairly." It's impossible. That's how real life works.

For example, reeds, I can't remember the last time you brought anything to a sports-related thread. But, you've sure popped out of the woodwork as a political provocateur in the Lounge. If a brand new member showed up and that was all he did, a thread like this would probably have been locked days ago. But you've been around a long time, and you have a history of being an intelligent poster, so the thread stays open, out of respect for whatever discussion you hoped to start.

Anyway.. I don't think that madape should receive any type of 'official punishment,' because I think that what's offensive and acceptable should be self-policing for the most part. Some of you were offended by what madape said, and you told him so. However, calling him names and likening him to a racist wasn't exactly the best way to do that.

If you are truly offended by his words, tell him you're offended by his word choice and harsh images. If you're actually just offended by his political views, and that's where you want to concentrate your efforts, that's fine, but he's not going to get banned for that. If he'd said something similar about the Lakers, I don't think as many of you would be crying out about it. Because you'd agree with his position.

So.. I'm not doing anything other than asking madape to consider the more genteel patrons of the board when going into one of his monologues from now on. If the other mods think differently, that's their choice. But that's my piece.

[MFFL]

Originally posted by: veruca salt

When or where has gay EVER meant weird or odd??.

I thought gay meant happy and fags were cigarettes

[sturm und drang]

The use of "gay" to mean "silly, odd, weird, lame, stoopid, etc."-- Doc Bio's words-- is derogatory. Besides its use as slang to describe homosexuals, "gay" means "Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry."

Its use as the pejorative Doc described above is nothing more than a slur, a bastardization of the real meaning of the word. The implication, of course, is that being gay is "silly, odd, weird, lame, stoopid, etc." It's nothing more than a slur. As are "homo" and "fag" used the way they are on this board; if you'll go back and read the last six months of posts, I've found them used repeatedly as the ultimate insult. They are never, ever used in either a positive or even neutral light-- only negative. When used this way, it is the equivalent to using the "N" word. Would you ever even consider using THAT word? Ever? I'm sure you wouldn't.

Like Veruca, I don't find F*** to be at all offensive. Why would I? It describes nothing, is a slur to no one, is offensive only because people have decided it's a bad word. But I have heeded Doc's NUMEROUS complaints about the word and would never use it in this form-- though, frankly, it's part of my everyday vocab at work. (Such is the joy of working in advertising.) Likewise the blasphemy that Doc has requested we not use because it's offensive. I use this all the time, see no blasphemy in it, but refrain from using it on this board out of courtesy for his request.

I am simply saying that the use of "homo", "fag" and "gay" in a NEGATIVE or INSULTING manner is a slur, and is offensive to me. Do with that what you will. It's your choice. I am simply voicing that I, and others, find it offensive and repugnant and it finally got so out of hand that I felt compelled to say something.

And for the love of all things right and holy, I never ever said madape was a racist! Arrrrrgh!

[Dooby]

Originally posted by: sturm und drang
The use of "gay" to mean "silly, odd, weird, lame, stoopid, etc."-- Doc Bio's words-- is derogatory.

This whole topic is queer.

queer:
adj. queer·er, queer·est
Deviating from the expected or normal; strange: a queer situation.
Odd or unconventional, as in behavior; eccentric. See Synonyms at strange.
Of a questionable nature or character; suspicious.

[Big Boy Laroux]

ok, i'll chime in.

doc, the fact is you have asked other to not use God in profanity or to use the F bomb because you find it offensive. i personally don't have a problem with the F bomb, but i wouldn't use it here, because it may offend people.

you now have posters requesting people to stop using "gay" as a derogatory term. you made a request, they have complied... now they are making a request.

just as someone shouldn't have to use the F bomb or God to emphasize their point, "gay" "fag" or "homo" shouldn't be used either.

basically, if you request others do stop doing something you find offensive, and they comply, you should be more than willing to stop doing something they find offensive (of course, that is within reason. it would be unreasonable if one person didin't like the word "phlegm" for example, and asked everyone to stop using it). i certainly think "gay" "homo" and "fag" are words that many find offensive when used in a derogatory fahion.

[MavKikiNYC]

Of a questionable nature or character; suspicious.

I resemble that remark.

[Dooby]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

I resemble that remark.

Now we know, MavKikiNYC, is queer.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally posted by: Dooby

Now we know, MavKikiNYC, is queer.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

but is he gay, putting fags in his mouth, as some people are?

[kg_veteran]

I am simply saying that the use of "homo", "fag" and "gay" in a NEGATIVE or INSULTING manner is a slur, and is offensive to me. Do with that what you will. It's your choice. I am simply voicing that I, and others, find it offensive and repugnant and it finally got so out of hand that I felt compelled to say something.

It seems to me a reasonable request to ask that these terms not be used in an insulting manner.

[kg_veteran]

but is he gay, putting fags in his mouth, as some people are?

That's it. I demand that UL be banned. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
<EM>but is he gay, putting fags in his mouth, as some people are? </EM>

That's it. I demand that UL be banned. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

from merriam-webster:
Main Entry: 1ban
Pronunciation: 'ban
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): banned; ban·ning
Etymology: Middle English bannen to summon, curse, from Old English bannan to summon; akin to Old High German bannan to command, Latin fari to speak, Greek phanai to say, phOnE sound, voice
Date: 12th century
transitive senses
1 archaic : CURSE
2 (definition is not important for my complaint)

intransitive senses : to utter curses or maledictions


I'd like kg banned for demanding that I be cursed.

0h, crap.

[kg_veteran]

I thought cursing was the reason that people were arguing in the first place -- ah, never mind.

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
<EM>I am simply saying that the use of "homo", "fag" and "gay" in a NEGATIVE or INSULTING manner is a slur, and is offensive to me. Do with that what you will. It's your choice. I am simply voicing that I, and others, find it offensive and repugnant and it finally got so out of hand that I felt compelled to say something.

</EM>It seems to me a reasonable request to ask that these terms not be used in an insulting manner.

Absolutely. That was my original point. The key was in an insulting manner.

i certainly think "gay" "homo" and "fag" are words that many find offensive when used in a derogatory fahion.

Again...I agree wholeheartedly. My point was only that the word "gay" as used by Rhylan for instance in stating that this thread was gay was not intended as a derogatory remark. It was used in another context. There was no intent at being offensive at all in that case. Is that so hard to understand?

[Murphy3]

i must agree with sturm on this one. the way that the word "gay" is used in this thread and in this forum in general could be and is insulting to some people.

other than as some means of justifying their actions, I have not seen the word "gay" used in any other manner other than one that would be possibly offensive.

Do I find it offensive? No, not really. However, I find little offensive other than stupid basketball opinions and blind Mavs homers. That's just about all that I'm offended by.

[reeds]

Cedar-Springs and Lemmon- MADAPE, meet me at that corner in ten minutes...bring the soap. I will show you the meaning of GAY