NFL Cut day....June 1,2004

[Drbio]

Kurt Warner was released by the Rams today as expected

[Drbio]

Vinny Testeverde was released by the Jets.........Cowboys call coming?

[MavsFanatik33]

Originally posted by: Drbio
Vinny Testeverde was released by the Jets.........Cowboys call coming?

That would be a good choice, a nice veteran QB is always what Parcells likes...

[dalmations202]

IMO,

For the record. I know I don't think like Bill Parcells.

Forget Vinny.....he is a never was, who never did. Sign Kurt Warner, or at least bring him in for a physical. If he does not meet the mustard, then fine, sign Vinny. If he is healthy though, then let him start for the next 2-3 years while grooming Henson and Carter with a QB coach. Warner has been there, and done that. He may not be able to do it again, and may never be healthy again; but if he is, Good Grief, he is a superstar All-Pro instead of a "less than pro-bowl caliber" player.

I will be totally PO'd if Warner goes to the Giants and they beat the Cowboys twice a year for the next 2-3 years. Life just got harder in the NFC East, with the coachs that have taken over........do not blow it by keeping an average (at best ) QB running the offense.

[FilthyFinMavs]

I bring in Vinny. If it came down to who I want to teach Quincy and Drew how to become better qbs I think I want a guy who has been a pretty good qb for awhile rather than a Kurt Warner who had a good 4 year run.

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: dalmations202
IMO,

For the record. I know I don't think like Bill Parcells.

Forget Vinny.....he is a never was, who never did. Sign Kurt Warner, or at least bring him in for a physical. If he does not meet the mustard, then fine, sign Vinny. If he is healthy though, then let him start for the next 2-3 years while grooming Henson and Carter with a QB coach. Warner has been there, and done that. He may not be able to do it again, and may never be healthy again; but if he is, Good Grief, he is a superstar All-Pro instead of a "less than pro-bowl caliber" player.

I will be totally PO'd if Warner goes to the Giants and they beat the Cowboys twice a year for the next 2-3 years. Life just got harder in the NFC East, with the coachs that have taken over........do not blow it by keeping an average (at best ) QB running the offense.

You may be right, dal, but you have to wonder why the Rams would take such a hit by cutting him if he did have that to offer. That part just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Vinny had a couple very good years. Maybe he "was" at least for a short while.

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
I bring in Vinny. If it came down to who I want to teach Quincy and Drew how to become better qbs I think I want a guy who has been a pretty good qb for awhile rather than a Kurt Warner who had a good 4 year run.

God forbid we would want to bring in a NFL MVP and a Superbowl MVP to mentor our young quarterbacks. [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

[Drbio]

chum- the Rams released him due to salary. Marks said it in the press conference. The Rams did not want to have a multimillion dollar QB as a backup. No matter who would have won the starters role, that would be the case in St. Louis.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Drbio

God forbid we would want to bring in a NFL MVP and a Superbowl MVP to mentor our young quarterbacks. [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

That's fine but i'd just rather have a future hall of famer teach our qbs rather than Kurt Warner. Kurt's a good story but he's just that. He had a good 4 year run but Vinny is 41 years old. That says enough about the guy. And I haven't even mentioned his relationship with Bill.

[Drbio]

This isn't a Vinny sucks reference at all, but Warner is a proven winner. He knows how to close the deal. Vinny has been blessed with a long career. I don't want any of our current QB's outside of Henson to have a long career. They aren't talented enough to do it.

Vinny is fine. Warner is inspiring.

[SaltwaterChaffy]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

That's fine but i'd just rather have a future hall of famer teach our qbs rather than Kurt Warner. Kurt's a good story but he's just that. He had a good 4 year run but Vinny is 41 years old. That says enough about the guy. And I haven't even mentioned his relationship with Bill.

Who's the future hall of famer? Because it's certainly not Vinny.

[dalmations202]

Vinny is a future "Hall of Famer", but Bob Hayes, Cliff Harris, and Wright aren't? The only reason I can see for that is east coast bias. I guess if any of those three ever played in NY, they would have been first ballot guys.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Drbio
This isn't a Vinny sucks reference at all, but Warner is a proven winner. He knows how to close the deal. Vinny has been blessed with a long career. I don't want any of our current QB's outside of Henson to have a long career. They aren't talented enough to do it.

Vinny is fine. Warner is inspiring.

What does our qb's having a long career have to do with anything? Warner WAS a proven winner in his 4 year stint. He has now been beaten out of his job by his backup. And if you hate Quincy you will really hate Bulger because he has even more interceptions then Quincy did. I would rather have someone who is actually looking to teach come in and teach my young qbs. Kurt Warner is looking to start somewhere.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: dalmations202
Vinny is a future "Hall of Famer", but Bob Hayes, Cliff Harris, and Wright aren't? The only reason I can see for that is east coast bias. I guess if any of those three ever played in NY, they would have been first ballot guys.

Were did Bob Hayes and Cliff Harris come from? I never said those guys weren't Hall of Famers. Maybe I should change my statement to potential Hall of Famer.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: SaltwaterChaffy

Who's the future hall of famer? Because it's certainly not Vinny.

You're intitled to your opinion. Go to NFL.com and check his stats out and see how he fairs with other hall of fame qbs.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Were did Bob Hayes and Cliff Harris come from? I never said those guys weren't Hall of Famers. Maybe I should change my statement to potential Hall of Famer.

They came off the finalist list for Hall of Fame this year, and didn't make it. They all had SB rings. They all had multiple years in the Pro- Bowl.

[mavsfanforever]

I already see some tension, it must be football season. Bring it on, boys will subject people to puncation(as said by Rhylan).

I do think Vinny should be here rather than Kurt Warner. I do agree that Kurt might be more talented at this point and be better than any QBS we have but I do not think our offenive line would be able to protect an immobile QB like Kurt. Moreover are you willing to commit money on a QB that has barely played in last two years and has been fumble prone ever since he was first injured (in cowboys vs Rams game which boys won). I am not sure if Warner will come here to be a backup QB and coach younger guys. I think we should let Quincy start this season and see what he got while Drew develops into a starting QB. The very fact that cowboys gave up a draft pick to get Drew tells me they do not think Quincy is going to be the future QB of this team. However, with the current Offensive line we are better off playing quincy because that is one skill I admire about Qcar ( he hardly gets sacked).

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: mavsfanforever
I already see some tension, it must be football season. Bring it on, boys will subject people to puncation(as said by Rhylan).

I do think Vinny should be here rather than Kurt Warner. I do agree that Kurt might be more talented at this point and be better than any QBS we have but I do not think our offenive line would be able to protect an immobile QB like Kurt. Moreover are you willing to commit money on a QB that has barely played in last two years and has been fumble prone ever since he was first injured (in cowboys vs Rams game which boys won). I am not sure if Warner will come here to be a backup QB and coach younger guys. I think we should let Quincy start this season and see what he got while Drew develops into a starting QB. The very fact that cowboys gave up a draft pick to get Drew tells me they do not think Quincy is going to be the future QB of this team. However, with the current Offensive line we are better off playing quincy because that is one skill I admire about Qcar ( he hardly gets sacked).

Well a 3rd rounder wasn't much it's just a situation that if Henson failed the Cowboys didn't really give up something that could hurt them in the future. Sometimes I wonder how good Quincy would be if he didn't have to run for his life 80% of the time. We can't put Henson out there now. Atleast give the Cowboys a year to improve this o-line but right now there is way too much inexperience on that line for a rookie qb who hasn't played football in awhile.

[SaltwaterChaffy]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

You're intitled to your opinion. Go to NFL.com and check his stats out and see how he fairs with other hall of fame qbs.

I am entitled to my opinion, and he fares decently with other quarterbacks, but he's nothing but a career journeyman, albeit a good one. If he gets into the Hall, it would be pure East Coast bias in my book. Having said that, i would still want him as a Cowboy to mentor QCar and Henson.

[AnMan21]

regardless of all that's been said thus far, the statement with the most truth was Kurt Warner is looking to start somewhere. as is evident from his wife's constant running at the mouth about leaving the Rams over the past two years. bill is trying to build something solid here and though warner may be able to bring us a short-term solution, he won't go quietly when henson is ready to take the reins....and nothing good can come from that.

[sike]

guys on espn radio seem to be saying that vinne is coming

[dalmations202]

regardless of all that's been said thus far, the statement with the most truth was Kurt Warner is looking to start somewhere

So is Vinny looking for a starting position, as reported by his agent.

So who is the better QB......When healthy - Kurt Warner, and that is true unless you deny stats, rings, and every other known reasoning. The only reason Vinny is being chosen is Bill knows Vinny, and Vinny had his best year ever under Bill.

The only real question I have --- Is Kurt Warner healthy? Will he ever be again? Why didn't the Cowboys bring him in to find out?

I think the arrogance of Bill and Jerry will bite them in the backside with this one (although I hope not). Just like the trade down and pickup of Kavika Pittman when they could have had Tony Brackens. Jerry drafted QC way to high, and he wants to see him succeed. Bill wants to prove that he can win with players who work hard, but are not necessarily markee players. Bill has done it before, but it sure would be easier if he could get markee players working his way.

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: AnMan21
regardless of all that's been said thus far, the statement with the most truth was Kurt Warner is looking to start somewhere. as is evident from his wife's constant running at the mouth about leaving the Rams over the past two years. bill is trying to build something solid here and though warner may be able to bring us a short-term solution, he won't go quietly when henson is ready to take the reins....and nothing good can come from that.

Total speculation and nothing more on your part.

[Drbio]

Vinny T is not a Hall of Fame QB. You certainly are entitlted to think he is, but you are entitled to be wrong too.


Warner will not be a Cowboy. This argument is moot. But he is a better choice than Vinny T.

[dirno2000]

Dalm, I understand your point about Kurt having a bigger upside. I just think that most teams assume that he'll never reach that level again. First of all, you have to admit that in his prime years he had one of the greatest arsenals that a qb has ever been blessed with. That situation won't be duplicated anywhere else he goes.

Also consider the beating he took as a result of Martz sending all those receivers and even his running back down the field. Since 2001 he has been sacked 114 times! That's not even counting all the hits after he released the ball. I see him as the boxer who taken one too many hits and will never be the same. I guess we’ll see since he’s in our division.

[dalmations202]

We will know by the end of the season. If Dallas takes a step back, and doesn't win more than 10 games this next year, it will be because the division got tougher, and Dallas didn't take a chance on acquiring a top notch QB. There are no more excuses. There is a second year with the same offense, a better O line, very good TE, supposedly better wide outs, a high draft pick in the backfield.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: dalmations202
We will know by the end of the season. If Dallas takes a step back, and doesn't win more than 10 games this next year, it will be because the division got tougher, and Dallas didn't take a chance on acquiring a top notch QB. There are no more excuses. There is a second year with the same offense, a better O line, very good TE, supposedly better wide outs, a high draft pick in the backfield.

Oh yea there are some excuses. For starters we have a rookie offensive line with the exception of Flozell. I'm not even sure what to call Larry Allen anymore. I'm not sure how much more effective Julius Jones will be than Troy Hambrick. I'm not sure if our core of recievers are any better than last year. I put that weight on Antonio Bryant. Very dissapointed by his production last season.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Oh yea there are some excuses. For starters we have a rookie offensive line with the exception of Flozell. I'm not even sure what to call Larry Allen anymore. I'm not sure how much more effective Julius Jones will be than Troy Hambrick. I'm not sure if our core of recievers are any better than last year. I put that weight on Antonio Bryant. Very dissapointed by his production last season.

So the mgmt didn't address these areas? No, the O-line won't be a rookie O-line. In fact, we probably won't have but one rookie, and very solid backups on the O-line. JJones was a much higher draft pick than THam. Keyshawn is now the possession receiver that QC lacked last year. With Vinny, we now have the veteran backup QB. The player on D that was seen as a problem was Eb, and he is gone. The only other one was Edwards and he is gone. All the core remains.

Anything else than a 11+ win season is just an excuse. And excuses are like A@#holes -- everyones got one, and they all STINK.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: dalmations202

So the mgmt didn't address these areas? No, the O-line won't be a rookie O-line. In fact, we probably won't have but one rookie, and very solid backups on the O-line. JJones was a much higher draft pick than THam. Keyshawn is now the possession receiver that QC lacked last year. With Vinny, we now have the veteran backup QB. The player on D that was seen as a problem was Eb, and he is gone. The only other one was Edwards and he is gone. All the core remains.

Anything else than a 11+ win season is just an excuse. And excuses are like A@#holes -- everyones got one, and they all STINK.

Al Johnson should be starting this year and being that he hasn't played a game in the NFL yet i'd count him as a rookie. I'm not disagreeing that we have a better offense than last I just think it still isn't a good offense. Edwards wasn't a problem on defense. He was actually a plus with the exception of about 3 games. We now have Pete Hunter taking his spot. That says enough. The offensive line will suck this year and it has yet to be seen how the running game will look but you can't expect too much out of a 2nd round rookie running back.

[dalmations202]

Al Johnson should be starting this year and being that he hasn't played a game in the NFL yet i'd count him as a rookie. I'm not disagreeing that we have a better offense than last I just think it still isn't a good offense. Edwards wasn't a problem on defense. He was actually a plus with the exception of about 3 games. We now have Pete Hunter taking his spot. That says enough. The offensive line will suck this year and it has yet to be seen how the running game will look but you can't expect too much out of a 2nd round rookie running back.

Al Johnson was said to be a beast. Hope he comes back right.... that leaves Lehr and DiNapoli as more than adequate backup for this position. They drafted a Guard and Tackle high in the draft. They have a starter Gurode -- who should be better with an offseason under Parcells. They have Javier Collins who did a pretty good job last year. The left side is more than solid, it is All - Pro, "if" Larry Allen makes it back to his All-Pro form (who knows). Dan Campbell is probably the best blocking TE in the game.

Dallas has the chance to have a top 10 offensive line in the league, with 3-4 very good backups.

Edwards was solid, but not special. I think that is what Pete Hunter will be as well. I also expect good things from Donald Mitchell. I also would expect them to sign a veteran CB a little later in the summer.

You say, you can't expect much from a second round rookie RB. They had their choice of RB in the 1st round, and still thought he was the best, and traded down to get him. Yes, I expect lots from him.

[SaltwaterChaffy]

Al Johnson should be starting this year and being that he hasn't played a game in the NFL yet i'd count him as a rookie. I'm not disagreeing that we have a better offense than last I just think it still isn't a good offense. Edwards wasn't a problem on defense. He was actually a plus with the exception of about 3 games. We now have Pete Hunter taking his spot. That says enough. The offensive line will suck this year and it has yet to be seen how the running game will look but you can't expect too much out of a 2nd round rookie running back.

The last two offensive rookies of the year were running backs selected in the 4th and 2nd rounds.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: SaltwaterChaffy

The last two offensive rookies of the year were running backs selected in the 4th and 2nd rounds.

I didn't say he couldn't be rookie of the year. I said that I don't think he is much of an upgrade over Ham.

[SaltwaterChaffy]

The stats of the Rookie of the Year running backs vs. Troy Hambrick.

Domanick Davis ran for 1,031 yards and 8 TDs on a 4.3 yard per carry average.

Clinton Portis ran for 1,591 yards and 14 TDs on a 5.5 yard per carry average.

Troy Hambrick ran for 972 yards and 5 TDs on a 3.5 yard per carry average.

If Julius Jones is good enough for rookie of the year (on a bad offensive line, per your claim) than he is a hell of an upgrade over THam.

[Drbio]

Hambrick has only one talent. Blocking. And even that is debatable. He needed to go and thankfully we will not be spared to death by him any longer.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: SaltwaterChaffy
The stats of the Rookie of the Year running backs vs. Troy Hambrick.

Domanick Davis ran for 1,031 yards and 8 TDs on a 4.3 yard per carry average.

Clinton Portis ran for 1,591 yards and 14 TDs on a 5.5 yard per carry average.

Troy Hambrick ran for 972 yards and 5 TDs on a 3.5 yard per carry average.

If Julius Jones is good enough for rookie of the year (on a bad offensive line, per your claim) than he is a hell of an upgrade over THam.

Cliton Portis not only is a great running back but he had a great offensive line in Denver which is why they let him go because they fill they can have just about any serviceable running back in the backfield and be successful. As far as Domanick Davis go he is an 1,000 rusher. The only way I see this running game being improved is if we would've got an 1300 yard rusher and thats too much to ask from a rookie running back.