"Knicks-Mavs Heating Up" - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

threadkilla · 07-10-2002, 10:44 AM

If Nellie continues to play small ball, I would rather see Nash, Fin, Spree out there then Nash, Fin, NVE. I would also rather see us get Clarence Weatherspoon then Harrington if given a choice.

TheKid · 07-10-2002, 10:49 AM

Spree isn't a 3 that's the problem. NOW if Fin were to slide over to the 3 and Spree plays the 2 then that may work but other than that I don't think Spree can play the 3. He has a problem playing the 3 in the East, he would have a problem playing it in the west too.

I agree there aren't any big men or bangers that WE can conceivably bring in here that will be able to play, BUT I do think there are people we can bring in that will be good rebounders. Thomas I think is a better rebounder than Harrington. Harrington is so inconsistent that's why I don't think he can start. However like I said, I think it wouldn't be a bad thing to get someone like Harrington because he DOES improve the bench. He is capable of coming in and giving Raef or Dirk a spell at the 4 position.

Murphy3 · 07-10-2002, 11:19 AM

if i'm making a deal with the knicks, spree and harrington aren't who i go after...if you can't bring in KT, ...then i'm not thrilled about making a trade with them

FilthyFinMavs · 07-10-2002, 11:55 AM

Spree and Harrington for Nick and Bradely is 2 actives for 1 active. I do the trade even tho Im not exactly for trading Nick becuase I think he caN help us in the long run being a backup with Nash but if we have to trade Nick I would do this trade. We dont get a Ward or Eisley from it we actually get 2 of KNicks good players rather than some guys that Knicks dont want anymore so they can upgrade at the point. Honestly I even think I would do Frank Williams and Spree for NVE and Bradely. I just dont see whats the use for Bradely even beign here if he still continues to not improve on anything and not even attend summer league or the camp for Big Men that every one talks about.

TheKid · 07-10-2002, 12:25 PM

Honestly I even think I would do Frank Williams and Spree for NVE and Bradely.

Not in a million years... You're trading for a DRAFT pick (unknown) and Spree another two guard who brings forth the same problems that NVE brings to the point guard position for NVE and Bradley. Both may not be what the Mavs need but Frank Williams and Spree sure as hell aren't either.

seelenjaeger · 07-10-2002, 12:29 PM

I join da Kid on this one.

Bradley might not be coming off a stellar year, but I won´t throw him away for nothing. He´s still of value, and though I proposed the deal for Spree and Harrington, I am still not sure if I´d do it.

Dooby · 07-10-2002, 01:39 PM

ESPN.com is reporting that Minnisota restricted free agent Rasho Nesterovic is demanding a sign and trade to NY. I don't believe that NY can make all these trades. A player will have to be on the team for 60 days, i believe, before he can be traded again. If NY makes a trade for Nesterovic, I don't see how they can logistically trade for NVE without it being a three-way b/w Minnisota, Dallas and NY.

The lesson is, you have to trade Nick fast or wait until later. That is, of course, if you plan to trade him.

seelenjaeger · 07-10-2002, 01:44 PM

well, if rasho bolts minnie NY won´t take bradley now ...

maybe minnie is a possible taker for VanExel now? they need a pg, billups is reportedly also almost out of the door, and wally ... well, ya know ...

(and suddenly the Garnett for Nick and Finley idea pops up again - just to be ignored by my mind)

Dooby · 07-10-2002, 01:55 PM

Do you really want to help Minnisota out by trading them a starting PG with few health issues? I don't.

TheKid · 07-10-2002, 02:04 PM

you beat me to the punch dooby... The Mavs aren't doing ANYTHING to help the T-Wolves.

FilthyFinMavs · 07-10-2002, 02:10 PM

NVE and GArnett on the same team? I Think that brings Twolves back up to the top 5 teams and may be a better team than the Mavs. Like im said im not for trading Nick but if he wants to be traded which is understandable being that he is older then the starter pg and should start soemwhere elsethen I would do the HARrington and Spree for Nick and Bradely. I dont see how Bradely is any value when he doesetn even play for us. Any team thats willing ot trade for him I would almost do any trade to getrid of him because I dont think I can stand to see him for 6 more years.

seelenjaeger · 07-10-2002, 02:18 PM

maybe i have to go into detail

in scenario 1 van exel won´t be teaming up with garnett
in scenario 2 van exel garnett will be there without any help (since wally bolts)

Actually I can´t see much happening which enables Minnie to stay a playoff contender, they have troubles enough in KEEPING their team, they cannot really improve it, NOR do I consider them a TITLE contender, so I dont think we "help" them by trading van e (maybe FOR wally and a biggie, which won´t happen of course ...) ...

Minnie likely will try to work out a sign and deal which gives them either Ward or Eisley, so this might not even be on the table.

Hoopsmeister · 07-10-2002, 03:50 PM

Until Brandon--a good veteran point guard--went down last season, the Wolves were nicely keeping pace with Dallas, Sacramento and the other top Western teams. Trading them a good veteran point guard who *doesn't* have Brandon's health issues would help them. And even if it doesn't make them better than the Mavs (I don't think it would) it would make them a more difficult obstacle for the Mavs to overcome to get a shot at the Lakers/Kings. NVE and Finley for Garnett is a pipe dream but its also the only scenario in which we should consider getting NVE to Minnesota.

Drbio · 07-10-2002, 04:27 PM

No way I trade NVE to Minny. That would hurt us for sure.

David · 07-10-2002, 05:58 PM

<< I do the deal, but we get Frank Williams, Othella and Spree. They can get their PG of the future later, we would need help now. >>

I don't think Frank Williams can be traded for a while since he just signed his contract. There is some kind of rule. I don't know if it's 6 months from the date of the signing or a certain number of days.

MFFL · 07-10-2002, 06:19 PM

Dallas trades: PG Nick Van Exel (18.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.6 apg in 34.7 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (4.1 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Latrell Sprewell (19.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 3.9 apg in 41.1 minutes)
PF Kurt Thomas (13.9 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 33.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +10.8 ppg, +6.0 rpg, and -2.0 apg.

New York trades: SF Latrell Sprewell (19.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 3.9 apg in 41.1 minutes)
PF Kurt Thomas (13.9 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 33.8 minutes)
New York receives: PG Nick Van Exel (18.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.6 apg in 72 games)
C Shawn Bradley (4.1 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 53 games)
Change in team outlook: -10.8 ppg, -6.0 rpg, and +2.0 apg.

MFFL · 07-10-2002, 06:20 PM

Sorry [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

TRADE ACCEPTED

Murphy3 · 07-10-2002, 06:22 PM

umm, yeah, i think i'd make that trade as well mffl

MFFL · 07-10-2002, 06:25 PM

I like throwing out trades that would be great for the Mavs. Realistic trades aren't as fun [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

MFFL · 07-10-2002, 06:35 PM

Here's a SLIGHTLY more realistic trade.

Dallas trades: PG Nick Van Exel (18.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.6 apg in 34.7 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (4.1 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.3 minutes)
C Wang Zhizhi (5.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 10.9 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Latrell Sprewell (19.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 3.9 apg in 41.1 minutes)
PF Kurt Thomas (13.9 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 33.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +5.2 ppg, +4.0 rpg, and -2.4 apg.

New York trades: SF Latrell Sprewell (19.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 3.9 apg in 41.1 minutes)
PF Kurt Thomas (13.9 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 33.8 minutes)
New York receives: PG Nick Van Exel (18.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.6 apg in 72 games)
C Shawn Bradley (4.1 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 53 games)
C Wang Zhizhi (5.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 55 games)
Change in team outlook: -5.2 ppg, -4.0 rpg, and +2.4 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Murphy3 · 07-10-2002, 06:39 PM

yep, would make that trade in a second as well

Lvubun1 · 07-10-2002, 07:13 PM

I think Rasho Nesterovic would be a decent fit, he is a decent defender, and best of all he is young and has improved every year in the league. But as it has been said before you don't trade a guy to a divison rival, even more so a emotion player like NVE, we know what he does to the Lakers. Going head-to-head 4 times then also maybe the playoffs, no way. Maybe another team could been thrown in.

Murphy3 · 07-10-2002, 07:41 PM

uhm, what DOES NVE do against the Lakers that is much different than what he does to any other team?

he shoots even worse from 2pt and 3pt than he does on average...
yes, he scores 20.2 points but that's on more than 18!!!!!!! shots a game.

not exactly impressive.

it might be a good idea to trade him to a rival so the mavs will know they'll have a poor shooter jacking up alot of shots because he's pissed.

i can handle that

Murphy3 · 07-10-2002, 07:43 PM

for the record, he shoots 39.8% from the floor against the lakers...
and only 34% from behind the 3pt line

Lvubun1 · 07-11-2002, 03:41 AM

1. This year in 6 games vs. the Lakers he shot 46% avg 20 points and 7 assist.

2. What does his FG% matter anyway? Its all about the wins. In his last three years with the Nugs they beat the Lakers 5 times, which is twice the amount of times the Mavs have beaten the Lakers in like the last 15 years. So even though he was jacking up shots, they were winning. Can you handle that?

Murphy3 · 07-11-2002, 07:38 AM

it's nice that he had a good season versus the lakers..however, since leaving the lakers, his numbers aren't impressive at all.

Nellie · 07-11-2002, 10:02 AM

A trade involving NVE for Spree does nothing for us as far as addresing our weakness issues. After thinking about some more, I am not thrilled at all about dealing with New York period. KT would help but I still think there is more value in keeping NVE (no matter if that means him being on the roster at the start of the season or holding our hand for another deal) than dealing him to the Knicks.

Murphy3 · 07-11-2002, 10:03 AM

you're over-valuing NVE ..and you're over-valuing what he means to the mavs

Nellie · 07-11-2002, 10:07 AM

<< you're over-valuing NVE ..and you're over-valuing what he means to the mavs >>

If you are suggesting that New York is the only team we can deal NVE to, then I guess I am over-valuing him.

TheKid · 07-11-2002, 10:25 AM

he shoots even worse from 2pt and 3pt than he does on average...
yes, he scores 20.2 points but that's on more than 18!!!!!!! shots a game.

As I've said before, numbers aren't always necessarily a tell tale sign... For instance, we can take some of Dirk's offensive games against Sacramento.. Look at his percentages at what he shot (with the exception of 3 point range) and it looks like he shot terrible. However I can't remember which game it was, actually I think it was game 2 that we won.. Dirk shot bad overall for the game, but when it counted, Dirk hit his shots.

Now someone who may try to argue that Dirk takes a ton of shots can say, "Well it took him 20 shots to get 30 points." (hypothically speaking) Maybe it did, but if someone scores 10 or 12 of those points in a crucial part of the game, then you know what, I don't have a problem with it.

That's why I don't have as big a problem with someone like Iverson shooting 40% because as he's shown MANY TIMES when it's on the line, he's going to step up.

Just want to add, if you look at shooting percentages, smaller guys always shoot a lower percentage (John Stockton is the exception to the rule, however he doesn't shoot nearly as much as Van Exel does)due to the fact they have a more challenging time getting their shot off.

Murphy3 · 07-11-2002, 10:31 AM

no, numbers aren't always the only indication.. however, it's apparent that NVE doesn't exactly tear the lakers up by any means

and in game 2 vs sacramento, i don't think dirk shot poorly for the game if i remember correctly. i think he was 7 for 15.. probably perfect from the line as well.
46.7% from the floor is by no means bad by any stretch of the imagination especially when the three point shot is a part of your game

TheKid · 07-11-2002, 10:38 AM

My point was through the first three quarters he did NOT shoot well... Basically he came alive in the 4th quarter that game.. I'm saying following the philosophy of if a player doesn't have the capability of filling it in the hole, after three quarters of shooting bad they need to stop.. There are few players in the league who should keep shooting and like it or not NVE is one of those players.

Also I'm not looking at free throw shooting because NVE is also a good free throw shooter. Actually he's a better free throw shooter than anyone we're talking about trading him for so free throw shooting I'm not looking at.

Base Line Guy · 07-11-2002, 10:43 AM

I'd love to pick up KT, Spree and dump SB. I doubt NY makes this move though.

BLG

Murphy3 · 07-11-2002, 11:35 AM

that's the difference ..dirk DID pick it up and come to life..shot the ball well in that game.

over his career, nve has done nothing out of the ordinary against the lakers.. his stats are very comparable to his averages.
he shoots worse..shoots a bit more..scores a bit more... but he doesn't do anything that exceptional against his old team.. as was initially stated

TheKid · 07-11-2002, 02:32 PM

Well I saw two games when he played for Denver where he lit them up, one of them they won... Now I haven't seen every game that NVE has played against the Lakers so I won't go on numbers solely because the one that they won that he lit them up, he didn't shoot particurlarly well but he had an outstanding 4th quarter.

That's what I mean, so to just take the numbers would not be fair because unless you've watched every game he's played against the Lakers, I don't know how you could judge if he's truly shot poorly and played poorly. Now obviously you've seen every game he's played this year against the Lakers but that is just this year.

Murphy3 · 07-19-2002, 08:02 AM

thought i'd bump this up...

I've heard some more rumblings of KT to the mavs..most recently on the ticket today.. (norm's show)

Dooby · 07-19-2002, 08:08 AM

Kurt Thomas was on the spare basketball show on Fox 1190 yesterday.

Lvubun1 · 07-19-2002, 04:49 PM

From today's NYP http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/19/sports/basketball/19KNIC.html(might need to sign up)

After Sprewell, Kurt Thomas is the Knick most likely to be dealt. He is coming off the best season of his career and, with only three years and $15 million remaining on his contract, he is a virtual steal. There have been preliminary talks within the Knicks organization of trading Thomas and Charlie Ward to Dallas for point guard Nick Van Exel, but no serious discussions have taken place.