NBA Free Agency

[EricaLubarsky]

John Wall is the only player who entered the league in 2010 with the same team

Dirk is the only guy who entered the league in 1998 with the same team

[sefant77]

1998

[EricaLubarsky]

McLemore out 3 months with broken foot

[Underdog]

@ShamsCharania: Celtics are sending Thomas, Crowder, Ante Zizic and Brooklyn's 2018 first-round pick for Kyrie Irving, league sources tell The Vertical.

@ShamsCharania: All-Star Kyrie Irving will waive his trade kicker to complete Cleveland's deal to Boston, league source tells The Vertical.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@ShamsCharania: Celtics are sending Thomas, Crowder, Ante Zizic and Brooklyn's 2018 first-round pick for Kyrie Irving, league sources tell The Vertical.

Wow. Does this move put Boston over Cleveland?

[sefant77]

Lol The Nets Pick
Cavs picking #1 with LeBron leaving

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Lol The Nets Pick
Cavs picking #1 with LeBron leaving

I thought the same thing. Just let Cleveland suck again. They don't call them the mistake by the lake for no reason.

[EricaLubarsky]

Whoa

[EricaLubarsky]

Celtics are going to be good if Kyrie can pull his head out of his butt and learn to play team ball

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@ShamsCharania: Celtics are sending Thomas, Crowder, Ante Zizic and Brooklyn's 2018 first-round pick for Kyrie Irving, league sources tell The Vertical.

@ShamsCharania: All-Star Kyrie Irving will waive his trade kicker to complete Cleveland's deal to Boston, league source tells The Vertical.

IMO win-win trade. Cavs needed a perimeter guy like Crowder to let LeBron play the 4, Zizic is a good prospect, and that pick will probably be #1 overall.

Cavs got a much better haul than Pacers or Bulls did for their stars.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Smart for the Celts to move Thomas while his stock is high. You just can't overcome 5'9 as your best player at the end of the day. And now Tatum can start at SF without issue.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Smart for the Celts to move Thomas while his stock is high. You just can't overcome 5'9 as your best player at the end of the day. And now Tatum can start at SF without issue.

Bingo. IT wants the max, but IMO he's not worth it. He is too much of a liability on defense. Kylie may not be a great defender, but at least he has size.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Kylie may not be a great defender, but at least he has size.

I agree with you to some extent. But I'll take IT's heart over Kyrie any day of the week. Kyrie wants his own team and his own stats. IT wants to win and his passion motivates the rest of his team. Say what you want about Lebron, and I'll join in with you, but he does want to win more than almost anything. Lebron and IT leading that Cavs team is going to be scary. Throw in Crowder who is a big improvement over JR and now the Cavs are looking really nice.

The flip side is that Boston got a legit all-star player. I'm just of the opinion that the team will never make it to the finals because of that all-star player. But he might be my #1 fantasy league pick!

[EricaLubarsky]

Awkward

[saclare]

So who wins this trade? I have to lean Cleveland given the public knowledge of Kyrie's request. If IT is healthy, I believe the Cavs got better. I know he's a FA after this season, but that's where the value of Crowder, Ante, and Brooklyn's pick come into play. The latter has the chance to be #1 overall - which may entice LeBron to stay, or provides insurance in case he bolts.

For the Celtics, they free up a bunch of PT for Tatum and are really confident in his abilities, as they should be. My only question for them is who is going to guard LeBron in the race for the east? Is Tatum ready for that? I think a lineup or Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, Morris, and Horford is really solid if Tatum continues to show well. He also likely doesn't have to force much on the offensive end.

Both teams are crazy deep post-trade. Will be an interesting battle for the east, and we will see if they can hold their own against the GSW.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Smart for the Celts to move Thomas while his stock is high. You just can't overcome 5'9 as your best player at the end of the day. And now Tatum can start at SF without issue.

Exactly. Ive been saying it to anyone that will listen. IT great season great guy but you cant sustain what he accomplished last season. Just too undersized. I know what Im going to get yearly from Kyrie. And to me, Kyrie the best finisher at the rim.

I think Cleveland got the best deal they could get for Kyrie considering the situation, but I dont think they got any better. Hopefully that pick is top 3 itll be close. And Crowder can only defend well. So hes a decent bench guy.

Celtics I believe got the better end of this. Tatum can develop + Kyrie/Hayward should be a great tandem for a long time.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Celtics are going to be good if Kyrie can pull his head out of his butt and learn the earth isnt flat

FIFY

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

IT great season great guy but you cant sustain what he accomplished last season. Just too undersized.

While I agree with you on IT's size, he is now the #2 guy on the team behind Lebon. IT was almost entirely the offense in Boston, so IMO this is going to be a net positive for Cleveland in the trade. IT and Kyrie's numbers from 2016 are actually really close to each other.

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I know what Im going to get yearly from Kyrie. And to me, Kyrie the best finisher at the rim.

IT's FTA for 2016 is almost double that of Kyrie. While Kyrie may be able to get his shot off more, IT is getting points and fouls on the other team. IT has also proven he has the ability to rally a team around him ... a true leader. I just don't see that in Kyrie ... yet.

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I think Cleveland got the best deal they could get for Kyrie considering the situation, but I dont think they got any better. Hopefully that pick is top 3 itll be close.

100% agree on this. Cleveland gave up a lot in Kyrie but they got a lot in return. This is a true win/win for both teams.

Originally Posted by Melonhead

And Crowder can only defend well. So hes a decent bench guy.

Crowder will or at least should replace JR in the starting lineup. Crowder is not a high scorer and doesn't need to be in Cleveland. He can defend multiple positions and should fit extremely well with Lebron. Regarding his offense:
2016 Crowder: 2335 MIN, 720 FGA, 46.3 FG%, 394 3PA, 39.8 3P%, 415 REB, 155 AST, 80 TOV, 73 STL, 23 BLK
2016 JR Smith: 1187 MIN, 356 FGA, 34.6 FG%, 271 3PA, 35.1 3P%, 113 REB, 62 AST, 26 TOB, 40 STL, 11 BLK
Now minutes played definitely attributes to higher Crowder numbers, 2335 MIN vs 1187 MIN for JR. But Crowder is still a big improvement.

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Celtics I believe got the better end of this. Tatum can develop + Kyrie/Hayward should be a great tandem for a long time.

Long term as of right now that is probably true given we have no idea what that #1 pick will be. However, if I'm a Cavs fan, I would be pretty happy with how it turned out given the situation. The Cavs made a really good haul for being backed into a trade corner. Now if Lebon leaves next year and IT demands a max salary on another bad team ... that is very debatable. But then, with the salary floor being 90% now, teams are gonna have to pay someone and IT is still a better choice than a lot of other players. There are only so many super stars in the league that truly deserve a max salary contract and there aren't enough for every team to get one.

[Thebo]

Skip Bayless has convinced me that Cavs won the trade. His comments are quite amusing and it is difficult to count how many times he is actually correct, all he does is spitting words out of his mouth.

If we are looking at who got better end of the deal in short term, in that case I have to go with Cavs. How many teams were actually in competition for giving something good in exchange for Irving? The offer makes it look like Boston was bidding against themselves. Why were they giving up Nets pick? They could have given one or two of their own, or maybe Memphis' pick.

In long term Boston has solid core of players with Irving and Hayward. Difficult to say they have much else. At the same time yes, IT may have a hip problem, but the Cavs already have Rose that can cover some of playing time. Crowder will be really helpful. Cavs received two strong locker room players, although Crowder may end up unhappy if he is reduced to a role he played in Dallas. At the same time he offers an option to reduce LeBron's minutes.

At the end of the day, was it really necessary to give up Nets top 10 guaranteed pick? Without getting anything relevant in return? Whose offer was anywhere close to what Boston gave up? I like the idea of getting rid of IT and his potential future bad contract, but if LeBron bolts, Cavs have an option of letting IT go also. I doubt IT will get max offer anywhere in free agency.

This deal may end up being win-win, but at the moment it does look to favor Cavs.

[EricaLubarsky]

I honestly think its almost a tie.

Celtics
Immediate bump (as long as Kyrie can be a team player) to the next level

Cavs
Dump a loser who was reportedly not even going to show up to camp
Don't get appreciably worse in the short term
Zizic and a lottery pick will improve their talent long term
29 million in tax savings this coming season

Celtics may have bought a ticket to the finals (at least on paper Irving/Hayward/Tatum could get it done), and that last level is usually the most expensive to get to, because it means you have to buy a star. Cavs got literally the best deal they could have and the future is looking rosy while not giving up much in the present.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

The real question is whether IT4's hip injury will carry over into next season. That is a pretty big wrench in all of this, but at least the Cavs got that first round pick.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The real question is whether IT4's hip injury will carry over into next season. That is a pretty big wrench in all of this, but at least the Cavs got that first round pick.

The hip is the huge unknown in this trade. If IT is healthy Cavs won that trade. Kyrie was forcing his way out, they had no leverage. Can't believe Ainge gave up that pick. Sure, it could wind up being late lottery and not as valuable but still a decent chance it lands top 5 in a top heavy class. Crowder is one of the best contracts in the league and versatile. Zizic is nice depth down the road.

I'm not a huge Kyrie fan, admittedly. He's an iso guy and doesn't make his teammates better. Doesnt care to play much defense. Seems selfish. He is one of the best at creating his own and finishing and having that in the playoffs can be invaluable.

[Underdog]

@ShamsCharania: Manu Ginobili has signed a two-year, $5 million deal to return to the San Antonio Spurs, league sources tell The Vertical.

[saclare]

I still think the Cavs won this trade as I have no idea who Boston was bidding against, other than themselves at this point. The inclusion of the Brooklyn 1st rounder is the tipping point here, IMO.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@ShamsCharania: Manu Ginobili has signed a two-year, $5 million deal to return to the San Antonio Spurs, league sources tell The Vertical.

@DanFeldmanNBA: Money guaranteed to players age 37 and older:

Spurs: $44.5 million

Rest of NBA combined: $25.8 million

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by saclare

I still think the Cavs won this trade as I have no idea who Boston was bidding against, other than themselves at this point. The inclusion of the Brooklyn 1st rounder is the tipping point here, IMO.

I read somewhere about the Bucks possibly offering Middleton, Brogdon and a 1st. Doesnt mean its true but it sounds plausible. Maybe the Suns and a couple other teams had offers in. For Ainge to include that pick there had to have been a couple of things in play: legit threat of another viable offer. And that the Nets improved enough this offseason that the pick is just as likely to be close to #10 as it is to #1. Maybe the Nets threaten for a playoff spot if Crabbe and Russell play well and Levert and Hollis-Jefferson continue to improve? They are pretty thin upfront having lost Lopez. I'm guessing that pick still lands top 5, in which case huge win for the Cavs.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@DanFeldmanNBA: Money guaranteed to players age 37 and older:

Spurs: $44.5 million

Rest of NBA combined: $25.8 million

Wow. You can say at least one thing about the Spurs-- they take care of their vets. Yet to be seen if that translates to staying relevant long-term, but their drafting and coaching is at least solid.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I read somewhere about the Bucks possibly offering Middleton, Brogdon and a 1st. Doesnt mean its true but it sounds plausible. Maybe the Suns and a couple other teams had offers in. For Ainge to include that pick there had to have been a couple of things in play: legit threat of another viable offer. And that the Nets improved enough this offseason that the pick is just as likely to be close to #10 as it is to #1. Maybe the Nets threaten for a playoff spot if Crabbe and Russell play well and Levert and Hollis-Jefferson continue to improve? They are pretty thin upfront having lost Lopez. I'm guessing that pick still lands top 5, in which case huge win for the Cavs.

Definitely good points, though I would bet that Nets pick is at least top 5. I don't think the addition of Russell and Crabbe while subtracting Lopez does much for them this year.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by saclare

Definitely good points, though I would bet that Nets pick is at least top 5. I don't think the addition of Russell and Crabbe while subtracting Lopez does much for them this year.

Yeah likely doesn't move the needle much. They traded for DeMare Carol too and Jaret Allens not ready to help. The East is weaker though with Melo yet to be moved.

[Underdog]

@wojespn: Sources: After Isaiah Thomas underwent physical today, Cavs still evaluating injured hip and weighing options w/ completion of Irving deal.

@wojespn: Thomas traveled to Cleveland, took exam and flew back out of town, sources said. All players must pass physical, or a deal can be voided.

@wojespn: As one source involved in the process involving Thomas' medical clearance told ESPN late Friday night, "It's a very sensitive situation."

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The real question is whether IT4's hip injury will carry over into next season. That is a pretty big wrench in all of this, but at least the Cavs got that first round pick.

Whoops.

And reports are that Thomas hasn't even begun running. Still, I think the trade was mostly about the pick. Still be wacky if it doesn't happen.

[Underdog]

@AmicoHoops: Sources: Teams have yet to talk, but #Celtics do not believe Isaiah Thomas will be cleared by a #Cavs physical, planning for more dialogue.

[sefant77]

Poor guy...23m career earning at age 29 and maybe this giant red flag. One year too late at FA. Meanwhile Parsons has 130m in career earnings save in the bank

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Poor guy...23m career earning at age 29 and maybe this giant red flag. One year too late at FA. Meanwhile Parsons has 130m in career earnings save in the bank

It does suck. He's an easy guy to root for. Unlike...others you may have named

[Thebo]

What else can Celtics actually offer to improve proposed trade?

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Thebo

What else can Celtics actually offer to improve proposed trade?

More picks.

[Underdog]

@tim_cato: Cleveland wants more from Boston to complete the Kyrie trade, so here's what the Celtics have available. https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/8/...nsation-isaiah

[Thebo]

It is difficult to believe that Cavs would go for 2nd rounders or LAC pick, unless IT's injury is not that bad and is simply used as leverage.

[spreedom]

https://nesn.com/2017/08/nba-rumors-...-irving-trade/

Cavs now asking for Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum to complete the Kyrie trade...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by spreedom

https://nesn.com/2017/08/nba-rumors-...-irving-trade/

Cavs now asking for Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum to complete the Kyrie trade...

LOL, is Noel's agent handling this negotiation?